So lose to penn state again? Thats a great way to start an ncaa run! /s
In reality since most of our main players are freshmen and in combination of a key injury, i think we just hit that wall, and we just need to catch that second or third wind, play through it we'll come out stronger as a team. Winning the B1G can only get us a better seeding chance, never quit.
B1G Tourney: Rest your starters?
So lose to penn state again? Thats a great way to start an ncaa run! /s
we can move up in seeding with a nice BTT run. Rest our starters when we're up 20 on MSU with 2 minutes left.
tournaments helped or hurt your seeding (e.g. a 1 seed would keep a 1 seed regardless). I have heard that it will this year, I am not sure why that would change on a yearly basis. Alternatively, a conference tournament win seemed to help bubble teams. I would be interested to understand the exact formula used.
You don't think that if we beat two of Indiana, MSU, OSU, and Wisconsin our seeding wouldn't improve?
Maybe I don't know enough about the selection process, but, to me that seems like a sure bump if Michigan were to at least reach the BTT finals.
Not saying you are wrong, but when has that strategy ever worked?
Has anyone tried it?
Gregg Popovich did it in the NBA at the end of the regular season.
And against Miami this year. David Stern was against it.
Ah, right. And looking at the playoffs they were the top seed and lost to the 2nd seed Oklahoma City.
Therefore, it backfired. /s
Obviously a different deal there anyway. They had nothing to gain in terms of seeding while Michigan certainly does. Also, their players are slightly older.
ALL OF THE NFL TEAMS!! (who have already secured first round byes...)
Not sure if serious...
If you are serious, then you missed the point...
I remember UA's old coach Lute Olsen didn't really care for the Pac10 tournament and had some teams exit earlier than expected from the NCAA tournament. Not sure if he rested his starters so it may not be the same issue, but some of the best coaches ever (Bill Parcells comes to mind) preach that every game is important to build a culture of winning.
And I remember at least once, maybe twice, AZ delighting us the first weekend of the Tourney by losing to a 15 seed.
In both '92 and '93 they were in our region and lost in the first round.
What do you mean they played tired? Anyone gets tired playing a game of basketball. Would you have thought they played tired if they had won?
I thought someone had done some analysis about how many games a team plays in a conference tourney affects their showing in the national tourney and couldn't find any reason to think that the conference tourney makes you more likely to get bounced in the big dance.
Their bodies are not used to the amount of games and physicality. Look at the msu game. We were slow and seemed drained. I don't think they should rest look at the last few games and how aggressive we were. It seems as if we found our second wind.
Which MSU game? Since you say we were aggressive the last few games, it looks like you mean the 1st, but that just goes back to my point about how if a team plays poorly, they must have been tired. If only Beilein had let them rest up before our losses! Surely we'd be undefeated.
Endurance over the course of a season is not at all the same thing as endurance during a single game or race, so people don't just catch a 2nd wind like that. Again, 2nd wind = winning again.
I just woke up, but I'm still tired...
If you're tired, go back to sleep :)
I really thought you were going to quote the Statue of Liberty ("your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..."), but then I realized you just have piss-poor grammar.
Wrong. Until the basketballs bleed.
makes your comment 100% more effective.
this team needs confidence more than rest
I agree with this. I think there's an argument to taking a few minutes from Burke, Hardaway, and Morgan to give the youngsters a bit more experience, but overall, this team needs to learn to win those close, tough games more than anything.
Teams love to go out and try to lose.
Of couse not. Lose to Penn State again and you risk getting a four seed. Win the tourney and you are back in play for a one seed.
This is the revenge tour, not the time to cop out.
After this weekend some of you are going to feel foolish for all the bad things you've said about his team.
Thursday - Beat PSU = Revenge part I
Friday - Smash Bucky the Badger = Revenge part II
Satruday - Indiana Take III = Revenge part III (if Indy makes it this far. lol)
Sunday- Either stinky ass OSU or bum ass MSU can step up and get their whoopin!
Jesus guys, we sound so defeated around here. Take a step back and enjoy this weekend of ass kicking Wolverine basketball!!!
one down, three to go!
edit: alright, early morning double post!
Their rebounding and perimeter defense isn't going to get any better while they are sitting on the bench.
You make a good point, they did look tired. Maybe we should rest the starters for the NCAA tourney too and just completely disregard all the team goals.
Friends don't let friends drink and start threads.
YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!
You should start resting starters when you have a 15 point lead or so with ten minutes left, oh wait...
It's not an entirely crazy idea. I wouldn't advocate having the starters sit out an entire game, but I would like to see them have fewer minutes in the BTT. I do think fatugue at the end of the IU game was part of the reason for the missed FT's.
No and this whole rest thing is completely overrated. If they need rest then Beilein will give them a break during practice next week.
Kemba Walker and UConn won the Big East Tourney playing 5 straight days a few years ago. Then they went out and won 6 straight to take the NCAA Championship.
I played DIII ball and at the beginning of the season our practices ran close to 2.5 hrs long. By the end of the season they were 1.5 - 1.75 hrs long. At this point in the season all your offense and defensive sets are in. You're just fine tuning your stuff, trying to stay sharp, keep your conditioning going and going over your opponents.
PSU is a must-win. We absolutely need that game if we want to start the tournament in Auburn Hills.
Of the youngest teams out there and they need rest? Have to disagree with that premise. They need to make a solid run in the BTT to get some momentum for the tourney.
Well, I don't know about that argument. This isn't like the NBA where some guys are 35 and some are 20. All college players are young. If anything, being one of the youngest teams is a disadvantage because our freshmen haven't been through an entire season before.
I would want us to rest some guys, but we can't afford to against PSU. A loss there destroys our chance at a good seed.
I'm not sure this really applies at the collgiate level though. Are there really any old teams?
Miami. They're actually older than a number of NBA teams.
Instead of rest, why not just tell everyone to crash the boards on every shot no matter how far they are away from the rim, fast break defense be damned? Or how about only allowing the team to take a shot when they have passed the ball 5 times to work on ball movement, like in the movie Hoosiers...and if they don't, Beilein will pull the player who shoots early and only play with 4 guys?
How about we let coach B get them ready to play their game? UM has never won the BTT (98 does not count...and I am bitter because I was at the semi final and final that year), so this team can accomplish something that has not been done before.
Now I truly seen it all on this board. Unbelievable.
How about they go out and blow the doors off PSU, have a 20 point lead at half time, and they can create their own rest.
No. Your goal should alway be to hang banners. Hanging banners is cool. Play to win.
The conference tournament is typically were you build momentum going into the ncaa tournament, good or bad. Michigan went in with horrible momentum last year and see how that turned out. The year before last UConn was a low seed in the Big East tournament and went on a run that ended up winning the Big East tournament and the national championship.
I like the sound of that run that UCONN had for us. That was remarkable. I agree that this is a time to build momentum, improve on areas that require improvement and revenge the prior losses we had in the season. I'm hoping they can build some confidence in this tourney that they can win the close games by taking care of the things that help you finish. As others said, let them rest by creating rest. Get a big lead and then sit some guys.
You play to win the game
What a stupid question. This team isn't tired and they have a great chance at winning the B10 tournament. I guarantee you that they play to win.
While I do stringy disagree, I don't think that your idea is as far fetched as many in this thread appear to. Our team does look tired and does seem to have hit a wall. Taking a few minutes from trey, THJ and even McGary makes some sense. Even Morgan could use some reduced minutes to allow his injured leg to heal.
But, guys like Staus and GR3 need more minutes to regain confidence and get hot again going into the tourney. Similarly, the starters need some serious practice as a unit.
My hope is that the starters play, but that Beilein pulls them a bit sooner or rotates them out a bit more if we look like we have a decent lead.
You need to play 2 games in three days in the Dance so its good prep. We are in a good position though. Must win PSU and Wisconsin for vengeance and to prove our supremacy. IU game is a win-win. If we lose, it's not an upset, our seed won't be affected and we get an extra day to rest. If we win, it's a minor upset, we move up the S curve, and get a momentum boost that we can turn into a conference championship or a deep NCAA run
You really don't think this is far fetched??
OK. Aside from the silliness of giving up any chance of a B1G tourney title, don't you think that this would be death for UM on the recruiting trail? How does Bielien defend giving up in a conference tournament to recruits and their parents and their coaches?? Maybe Tom Crean, Tom Izzo, Thad Matta, etc. will just let it go and not hammer us with it, constantly, repeatedly, and justifiably. Nah.....
go for broke and just forfeit.
Why even show up? Maybe we should go "all-in" and just forfiet to take this to it's logical conclusion.
Sometimes I wonder if people posting actually watch sports or just hear about them from friends.
Edit: Beaten to the snark by mere seconds.......
Tourney. We need this to get the teams mind right.
...I MAY think about it (although we'd have a bye)
Now it's or die time. These boys better be PISSED and come out on this revenge tour looking for blood. I expect us to have an edge like we have only seen in spots this year.
One word: UCONN. They mowed through the big east tourney playing all of their games with all if their starters. Then they won the NCAA tourney. Also I can't tell you how many times I've seen teams rest their starters for the playoffs and lose the first round. You need your players in the flow of the game. Don't give them extra time to forget about what it's like to play at full speed. Hey if we're winning by 25+ with 10 minutes to go, pull your starters. But don't pull them from the whole tourney. Win the tourney, win the NCAA title. QUEME LOS BARCOS
This isn't the 82 game season NBA. Name one NCAA Championship team that rested its startes during a conference. On second thought...brilliant idea idea...call Belein...I'm sure he wil thank you with tickets to the BIG tourney to watch our bench get waxed by Penn State.
if you're in it you go hard. And I have not doubt that while Beilein might not be crushed if they bowed out early, hell--you gotta beat PSU!
I am 100% with those who have said, "play to win." I also believe that winning a bunch in the Big 10 Tournament will improve seeding, and improve confidence.
I wish they had won the Big 10 regular season championship. However, if losing to Indiana helps the lightbulb to go on for several players, and they win the Big 10 Tourney and get at least the Final Four, it was worth it. I want the players to absorb the following:
- Burke to play under control, and not try to do it all;
- The bigs need to rebound better;
- The bigs need to box out better;
- McGary needs to avoid stupid fouls;
- Hardaway needs to avoid taking threes when he isn't really open;
- They all need to make free throws.
If they learned these things, from both the Indiana loss and the season as a whole, and if they do these things in the next 10 games, well, it is worth it.
"You Play To Win The Game"
That is all
1. Win a regular season conference title.
2. Win your league's tournament.
3. Make a deep run in the NCAA tournament.
Why would you ever want to give one of those up?
Beating Wisconsin, Indiana and likely either MSU or OSU not only guarantees a #2 seed, but also opens up the door to a #1 seed. Notice how Michigan didn't really suffer in the polls, actually rising in the AP after the Indiana game? People know we have top seed talent, and running through that gauntlet would justify a #1 seed.
Just beating Wisconsin and playing another tough game with Indiana probably gives us a great shot at landing a #2 seed.
On top of all that, this team needs real game experience to work on their D and rebounding. You can't replicate game experience in practice.
This is right on. ^
Simply because this team needs to get in sync, particularly on the defensive end. UM's rotations on D have seemed off. I don't think you fix that by not playing.
5 of the last seven NCAA winners won their conference tourney as well
Wow this thread still hasn't been deleted?
Conference tournies are a waste of time. 4 games in 4 days for some teams is too much. The regular season is a grind. I wouldn't be upset to win thursday and friday then lose on Saturday. The only concern is staying fresh for the following week, that is more important.
No, you don't rest the starters. Winning a tournament is a great accomplishment and you have at least 3 and potentially up to 6 days up until the NCAAs (assuming we beat PSU).
You do play different rotations and go deeper into the bench because that is a means to the ends of winning the B1G tourney. When you are potentially playing 4 in 4 days and because after PSU we will be playing teams that did not have to play on Thursday we need to keep people fresh. If Burke plays 80 minutes against PSU and WI we are not going to beat Indiana, needs to be more like 60. Ideally, we kill PSU and win by 25 while resting guys, though that looks unlikely at this point. I think you'll see more of Albrecht bringing the ball up court even when Burke is in the game and both he and LeVert will get a fair number of extra minutes that will be spread around to various guys and lineups. I also think you'll see more 2 bigs sets, preferably with Morgan and McGary. Trying to get one guy to screen high and/or maybe even get McGary free for a 12 foot jumper here and there. Also to help on the boards. No drastic changes but enough to try to keep them fresh.
Lots of people mentioning UConn 2011. That's a legit example of a team that went on a big run and had to play through the whole tourney for 5 straight days and then won the NCAAs too. But the fact that everyone is using that same example also points out how much that team is the rare exception that proves the rule rather than the norm.
Actually I don't bench my starters against PSU, but I sure as heck try to give Hardaway and Burke a lot more time on the bench than they've had as late. I remember last year's OSU game in the B1G tourney. Burke had literally carried Michigan past, I think, Minnesota, but he had nothing left for the OSU game.
I agree with the comments that this team played tired at the end of the season. The B10 was a grind and likely wore them out. 4 games in 4 days won't improve matters.
Of course, if M hadn't lost to IU, Wisky and PSU -- all games they should have won, they'd already have a #1 seed locked up (and an outright title).
I think they should go all out on the PSU game and take it EZ afterward. How many Big East champs have grinded out a Big East title only to lose their first NC2A game?
I say just win them all.