B1G Hoops Preseason Poll: Michigan 5th
B1G Media Day was today for basketball, and the preseason rankings voted by the media are out:
1) Wisconsin 378 points |
2) Ohio State 322 |
3) Michigan State 305 |
4) Nebraska 299 |
5) Michigan 286 |
6) Minnesota 226 |
7) Iowa 214 |
8) Illinois 196 |
9) Indiana 163 |
10) Maryland 162 |
11) Purdue 95 |
12) Penn State 84 |
13) Northwestern 78 |
14) Rutgers 27 |
Source: http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2014/10/1…
October 15th, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^
at your peril. Interesting that Nebraska is getting a lot of love. We'll see how they run this year as a favorite.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:02 AM ^
Perhaps I'm just biased but I don't understand how State is ahead of us. Ohio is a total crapshoot, talented but raw. They could be 2nd, they could be 7th.
Maryland is going to be alot better than 10th, calling it now.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:03 AM ^
Easy four word answer. Tom Izzo is god... Well to everyone in east Lansing and media
October 15th, 2014 at 10:04 AM ^
Just keep in mind that SIX out of SIX ESPN "experts" predicted MSU to run away with the N'tl Championship last year because TOM IZZZZZOOOO
October 15th, 2014 at 10:51 AM ^
You mean they didn't win the NC? But IZZO, and Appling battling through injury, and every class has gone to the FInal Four since 1837, and IZZO...
October 15th, 2014 at 10:44 AM ^
be solid because Dawson is much better than people think. They will in fact actually be good because the "loss" of Appling is addition by subtraction and I think they have looked better for the last two years with Trice on the floor than with Appling They will not be anywhere close to great, however, because Denzel Valentine is no where close to as good as people think and because of their primary on-going issue for the last 10 years, the lack of consistent 3 point shooting. I think they are ranked fairly, it is Nebrasketball that is way to high.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^
That loss alone is going to keep them from being very good.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
Valentine thrived because the defensive attention went elsewhere. He's now going to have to carry a heavy load and he'll have to sink or swim. I'm sure State will be good; a top-25 team for sure. We'll even get to hear lots of stories about how good they'd have been last year but for all those injuries.
October 15th, 2014 at 6:56 PM ^
I'm not ready to say they're "for sure" a top 25 team. I could see them as a bubble team.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
Maryland stood out to me too. They have a solid squad.
October 15th, 2014 at 12:10 PM ^
We all know JB is pretty fantastic at uncovering talent, but other Big 10 coaches have taken notice too, and that's bad news for Michigan.
Bates-Diop and Tate were 5-star guys Beilein targeted very early on but OSU stole away. They will probably be very good. They have a couple other very good freshman and had a top 5 recruiting class. OSU may not be a top 10 team just yet, but they have more talent than Michigan (albeit young talent) and they're a legit conference title contender. Don't sleep on them. Their floor is a lot higher than 7th.
MSU: I agree we are better than right now. BUT, they took Jevon Bess well after Beilein was sniffing around. This wasn't a big deal (3-star recruit not offered), but he'll probably be good. It does indicate that Izzo is watching Beilein very closely. As does the fact he took two shooters that Beilein wanted (Aherns and McQuaid) for the '16 class. Also, Nairn is going to be very good and may end up being the conference freshman of the year. Still, I'm surprised they are ranked above Michigan.
October 15th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^
True, but no one in the Big Ten (except maybe for Tim Miles) has demonstrated an ability to develop talent like Beilein. Other coaches can piggyback on Beilein's knack for finding diamonds in the rough by just offering players that he offers, but they can't piggyback on his ability to develop those players.
October 15th, 2014 at 1:55 PM ^
The whole discussion is kinda silly. Any B10 team will glady take a 5 star recruit. Just because Beilein offered a 5star that ended up going to OSU doesn't mean OSU is piggybacking on Beilein's recruiting.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:52 PM ^
5-star Beilein recruits > 5-star Beilein does not
October 15th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^
I didn't mean to imply that OSU would not have recruited those guys but neither Tate nor Bates-Diop were considered 5-star recruits when Beilein first recruited them. They were both some of the earliest and highest priority recruits on JB's list. So, it's not that it's a surprise OSU recruited these guys, it just an affirmation that they are probably legit.
October 15th, 2014 at 8:16 PM ^
Perhaps you're just correct.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:02 AM ^
#nofaith ?? I like it though. Keep giving these kids and coaches something to prove
October 15th, 2014 at 10:06 AM ^
There's nothing about their roster that strikes fear into me. If Brandon Dawson is their go-to offensive weapon I feel great about our chances.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
Dawson will hurt us. Because of his rebounding Inside and the garbage putbacks he will get. We aren't as strong in the paint. But they don't really have anything else close to the talent we have. Denzel "tragic Johnson" Valentine has no chance against caris or irvin. They don't scare anyone.
October 15th, 2014 at 1:14 PM ^
Yeah, then think of Kaminsky will do to us inside. Yikes
October 15th, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^
Michigan State bball...where's the threat?
October 15th, 2014 at 10:44 PM ^
Lying in the weeds
October 15th, 2014 at 10:07 AM ^
I have no problem with Wisconsin at #1. After that... Eh...
I understand that a lot of us would like to see UM a touch higher based on Beilein's recent track record of replacing talent with newly developed talent. But if we are going off of track records, it's hard to consider it a slight that the voters are giving Izzo and Motta the benefit of the doubt too as they have hardly been slouches in the Big Ten as of late.
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October 15th, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^
Against Beilein in the last 9 games. Since the last time Izzo has won a B1G championship (that he shared with Beilein), Beilein has won another, gone to the national championship game, produced two B1G players of the year, went to another Elite Eight (though in fairness, Izzo also made it that far), and produced FIVE NBA draft picks (four in the first round).
The love Izzo gets is baffling. Outside of Dawson (who is not as good as LeVert), who does Sparty return? Who's going to guard LeVert? Travis Trice (HA)? They'll stick Valentine on him...and they'll get burned.
Nebraska and Michigan should both be above that douche Izzo. So overrated
October 15th, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^
It's the media talking point and facts have nothing to do with it.
Izzo = fantastic coach (don't look at his record the last 10 years)
Coach K = fantastic coach (don't worry about those pesky first round tourny losses)
Beilein = Ok coach, nothing special (dont pay any attention to his record the past five years)
Once you accept the fact that the vast majority of people in media are lazy as shit and could care less to actually research and report facts it'll stop bothering you - trust me.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:28 AM ^
In all fairness to Izzo, if we could sustain what MSU has done the last 10 years I would take it in a heartbeat. While he is certainly overrated by the media, you can pretty much book a spot in the 2nd weekend of the tournament with him.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:33 AM ^
I don't think anyone thinks Beilein = OK. I think they think players = OK (and young). Beilein seems universal praised as a tremendous coach and basketball mind. I think there is prejudice against his system sometimes, but there is less love for the UM roster IMO.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:38 AM ^
Oh you mean the 1-3-1 defense that he "always" runs according to the media? Or is it the 4 in - one out offense with his big shooting three's cause since Pitznoggle that's what he's "always" done?
He's generally known by the media outside of Michigan as a good coach who runs quirky offenses and defenses. Even though he basically NEVER DOES those things anymore and hasnt in several years outside of a possession or two.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:57 AM ^
I think you're overdoing it a little bit on Beilein's end. Izzo for sure, he still has too-large a reputation, but he's earned it for the most part. He's one of the go-to names a lazy media invokes when they want to talk about great coaches.
Beilein doesn't get that treatment. But when his name is brought up and they do talk about him, I've seen the praise-heaping move to an acceptable level over the last several years. Lazy media generally now say he's an offensive genius, with the ability to find great players to fit his system, and fully develop his talent (I expect this year the "NBA talent" will be more pronounced).
October 15th, 2014 at 11:15 AM ^
I guess we should decide on which media we are talking about. If you are living in Michigan I would agree tha local narrative is probably very kind to Beilein and for good reason - he deserves it.
I live out of state and I dont get the perception that his "brand" is nearly as strong in the national media. And I think the reasons for that lay mostly in his sideline demenor. He doesnt jump up and down and act like he's been shot after every call that goes against Michigan, he doesnt make a lot anguished faces and he doesnt storm out on the court every possession. So he's not very good copy if you know what I mean unlike the other media darlings that DO all the aforemention things.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
3 years ago you were correct, but JB is regularly recognized as a Top 10 coach by most, if not all, of the national media at this point. They just don't heap praise upon him because he comes across as the kind of guy that actively avoids praise and is almost embarrased by it. People everywhere know the score by now though.
With regard to Izzo, there is Vitale and there is everybody else. Vitale (disclaimer - I am one of the few remaining who often enjoys Vitale) really, really over does it with the Izzo praise. He has an un-healthy Izzo obsession. For the most part, I think most of the other media pundits revere Izzo for how much he has done in college basketball but are beginning to understand (and express) that his system has limtations in this age of college basketball. Izzo does keep himself visible by way of interviews and media appearances, but I can't really blame him for that.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^
I like Vitale as well. I've never taken his sometimes obnoxious (and a fair criticism, sometimes too-simple outlook) yelping as anything other than genuine love and enthusiasm for the game.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
I actually am talking about the national media - specifically ESPN and the Sirius college sports station.
I very rarely tune in to local media - I no longer know the local station broadcaster's names, nor the newspaper writers for the most part. I'm aware of it and see them on TV or read an article if I'm drawn to it by other media sources (Michigan blogs, ESPN, cbssports when it comes to sports, WSJ and reddit when it comes to news), but it's not something I consume. I honestly have no idea what the local guys think of Beilein.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
The media is used to the old mantra that defense wins championships since defense is always consistent and offenses can stutter. None of Michigan's teams have had steller defenses and this year should be pretty similar, with I think a few more possible blocked shots.
The problem with this mantra and Michigan is that, under Beilein the last few years, the offense is as consistant as any defense out there. Able to score against long 2-3 zones, shred man to man, and move quickly against presses. So I think it is more young and suspect defense that puts Michigan lower.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:52 AM ^
And this is why I love him so much. He's not running around like an idiot (crean) and he's not stomping and acting like a little bitch (izzo). When he feels he needs to get in a ref's ear he does but also knows if he just argues everything it's not going to work for him long term.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:38 AM ^
Considering arguably the top NBA prospect in the B1G will be wearing maize and blue...not to mention Irvin (former 5-star who lit it up from three) Walton and Chatman are high four-stars...really fail to see how MSU is in a better spot than us from personnel standpoint.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:46 AM ^
I completely agree. The media is underestimating UM players and JB (and staff). This is fine with me.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
that elite status with the media, they're there for life regardless of how their most recent track record is. They could even be lowlifes in their off-court lives and it doesn't matter. No better (worse) example than Dick Vitale. Whenever he gets a chance he's trumpeting how great Izzo is.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
I think Wisconsin is the only team that will for sure be in the top 2-3 of the BIG. I have the same feeling with JClay about most BIG teams and not just OSU. Michigan, Nebraska, MSU, OSUall could be 2nd...or 7th. Should be a hell of a year with awesome .gifs.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^
Going to be gooooooood.
EDIT: Added picture of Old John Heisman to go with his money quote. How does everybody like them apples?
October 15th, 2014 at 10:15 AM ^
not as good as us. We sweep.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
I agree that we could sweep but that's always a tough road win. Lemons if they sweep regular season again??
October 15th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
Good Judge-ment.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:16 AM ^
Nebraska
October 15th, 2014 at 10:57 AM ^
This was my first impression as well. But Tim Miles(?) has really done a good job building a program from nothing there. Not to mention they have a definitive home-court advantage with how distant the travel is for the majority of the conference. I haven't reviewed everyone's schedule but if they can avoid doubling up against the top echelon teams you could see Nebraska getting byes in the B1G Tournament.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^
Ahh so Rutgers should really have a home court advantage?
October 15th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
I guess I forgot to remind you Nebraska just opened a new arena which brings both recruiting benefits and crowd excitement, plus their home court record was stellar last year. But if you want to be nasty about it, I do believe that if a Western team (Minn, Wisky, Iowa) has to play a weekday game at Rutgers they could easily show up lethargic and get upset.
October 15th, 2014 at 10:17 AM ^
This could be a year that Wiscy runs away with the conference title by 3-4 games and everybody from #2-#8 is within 2 games of each other with 5-6 conference losses. Thankfully, Bo Ryan will then gack it up in the B1G tourney or NCAA's, while Beilein, Motta and Izzo make their typical runs with teams that improved over the course of the year. Raback it that Minnesota will pull 2-3 huge upsets this year.
My prediction? PAIN....
October 15th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^
There is no way a team will win the conference by 3-4 games. That is just too big a feat given the depth and talent in the B1G...absolutely no way. I mean, that would have to be a special, special program to do that.
October 15th, 2014 at 11:12 AM ^
While I agree that someone winning the conference by 3-4 games seems like a stretch, Wisky actually has a pretty favorable conference schedule. They only get Michigan, MSU and OSU once each.