B1G Coaches - Best group ever?
Part of so called SEC "dominance" has been attributed to strong coaching hires, while the B1G just hired from the MAC it seemed. But the level of coaches in the conference now seems to be so much higher than I can ever remember. Harbaugh, Meyer, Dantonio speak for themselves. Franklin is what he is, but he's respected, he's a good recruiter, and he won at Vanderbilt. Under whatever circumstances there were at Vandy, he won. I'm sold. Chris Ash and DJ Durkin are both excellent coaches, with great track records and I think their success will only be limited by the difficulty in the B1G East.
Fitzgerald might be the best coach/school marriage in all of D1.
Lovie Smith brings NFL experience which has value.
Ferentz is a good coach, Kevin wilson will being me joy when he leaves and takes that offense with him. Riley and Chryst aren't huge names, but are respected and have had success.
Is this the best group of coaches the conference has ever had?
Both are highly regarded as well. My team to win the B1G West is Nebraska followed by Wisky. Iowa slips to third. Riley needs a big year after last year's heartbreaking losses.
Meanwhile, Iowa enjoys the benefit of missing OSU, MSU, and PSU, and gets us at home. With Wisconsin having a murderous opening to the season that'd be tough for any team in the country, I'm going with Iowa again.
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August 2nd, 2016 at 10:40 AM ^
Oregon does not strike me as a scary team anymore and Nebraska was right there with Wisconsin and Iowa last year.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:41 AM ^
Agreed. 2 straight grad transfer QBs isn't a good sign.
So the JOKer didn't graduate, I'm not sure that makes him competing for the starting job any better than if we had 2 straight grad transfers.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:04 PM ^
Iowa has a night game at Penn State.
But their schedule is still the easiest of the west. They get both Nebraska and Wisconsin at home. In addition to their hardest East cross over (us) at home
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August 2nd, 2016 at 10:05 AM ^
Tough to win national titles with crappy coaches
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:28 AM ^
While your statement is true, I think the original point made was more about how there are only a few programs that have won a national championship for the SEC, but one of those coaches is now in the B1G. The SEC as a conference gets all of the praise based on what Saban and Miles have done nationally, not because Gus Malzahn and Will Muschamp are such great coaches.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^
August 2nd, 2016 at 12:16 PM ^
Fulmer was a solid coach. UT made a mistake getting rid of him.
Auburn - Chizik got lucky, as it was mostly Cam Newton which won the natty, not Chizik.
Florida - Urban
Alabama - Saban
LSU - Miles
So we have 4 really good to great coaches + Chizik.
They've had the best coaches during that time. I'd argue that only Larry Coker (Miami) and Gene Chizik (Auburn) were the only mediocre coaches who won, and that was largely due to a ridiculous stockpile of talent (Coker) or one generational talent (Chizik + Newton).
Otherwise, you have Fisher, Bowden, Stoops, Tressel, Brown, Carroll as winners. That's a great coaching lineup. All able to recruit AND coach. Proximity to talent certainly doesn't hurt, though, which is why none of those teams is in a talent-poor state (aside from UO, but they're adjacent to TX and get a lot of players from there).
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:11 AM ^
Technology to reach kids down south 10-20 years ago is not the same as it is now. Plus, AD budgets are bigger so that all schools not already named UM or OSU can get down there. If B1G coaches were smart, they'd hitch themselves to the Harbaugh satellite train to expand their reach.
August 2nd, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^
on Rutgers. Who could Rutgers have hired that would have been a better hire than Chris Ash?
Franklin is respected though not sure for how long if he keeps stealing other teams mottos...yes nothing is original but dont steal from teams you play...
The team, the team, the team. #mondaymotivation pic.twitter.com/0AmLS11VdC
— Penn State Football (@PennStateFball) August 1, 2016
WTF? http://michigan.247sports.com/Bolt/Penn-State-uses-Michigan-motto-in-tw…
On September 24th, Penn State will be sobbing, "The pain, the pain, the pain".
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:16 AM ^
Well, that's a downer. But not as bad as Marshall pulling this crap...
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:31 AM ^
"The boys, the boys, the boys..."
Too soon?
Nope.
August 2nd, 2016 at 12:19 PM ^
penn state motto #2:
Deny, Deny, Deny..."
BTW, FUCK penn state and all their delusional joepa loving fans!!!
August 2nd, 2016 at 12:19 PM ^
penn state motto #2:
Deny, Deny, Deny..."
BTW, FUCK penn state and all their delusional joepa loving fans!!!
I think it's too soon to tell, but I like the B1G's chances.....unless Urban retires for "medical reasons" after The Game.
The 1960s had Bo, Woody, Ara, Duffy Daugherty, & Jack Mollenkopf. The 1980s and '90s were pretty solid too for depth with Iowa (Hayden Fry), Penn State (Joe Paterno), Northwestern (Gary Barnett), Wisconsin (Barry Alvarez), Purdue (Joe Tiller), Minnesota (Glen Mason), Illinois (Mike White & John Mackovic), Indiana (Bill Mallory) having some all-time great coaches in program history. Not to mention some coaches on the rise like Nick Saban (MSU) & Lou Holtz (Minnesota). And as bad as John Cooper was against Michigan, he was pretty good against everybody else.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:20 AM ^
He would likely be mentioned in the same breath as other greats of the game if he at least batted .500 against Michigan. They legitimately could have won MNC's in 1993, 1995, 1996 and 1998, though Sparty got them that year.
August 2nd, 2016 at 11:03 AM ^
I laughed in 1998 . . . even though we did not knock them off, we kept getting credit for it in the media, ala "Ohio State is so freaked out by the University of Michigan that they collapsed when they merely faced a team from the same state."
We were in their heads so hard in the '90s.
Time to move back in.
Without a doubt, this is the best from top to bottom the B1G has ever seen. The B1G in the Bo-Woody decade were totally overshadowed by those two.
The jury is out on Durkin and Ash, but both were excellent coordinators and assistants.
Isn't the only difference between this year and last year the 3 names you mention plus Minnesota who just retained thir interim coach with no experience? With the exception of Lovie - which is definetly an upgrade to conference - the other two guys are just assistants from P5 programs, which is about equal to hiring a hot head coach from a MAC level school. The prior year the conference brought in Cryst and Riley, two pretty big LOL's, then Wisconsin loses their best coordinator to a lateral hire at an SEC school. And Wilson is basically RR on steroids. The conference needs one or two more bigger names before I'd say best ever.
So when did the B1G have better coaches from top to bottom? That was the question.
"Part of so called SEC 'dominance' has been attributed to strong coaching hires..."
Yes, there are some good coaches in the SEC, but their dominance should mostly be attributed to talent, not coaching. Florida is in the top 3 for producing talent and is number one in some metrics (along with Texas and Cali), Cali is also in the top 3. Georgia is a major producer of talent. Louisiana and Bama come in very high as well.
Not to hijack/derail, but there are minimal qualms about paying these players in the south too. USC was on par in this regard and I'm sure there are other examples outside the SEC too (OSU, FSU, etc.), but as a conference, I believe the SEC has more widespread compensation to players.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2016/6/28/12040586/…
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:34 AM ^
Correllation/Causation and all but my article in 2014's HTTV covered the discrepency in SEC and Big Ten coaching hires and the conclusion was that the SEC was swinging for the fences with big money and hitting 50% of the time while the Big Ten was mostly going inexpensive and coming up with a 12% hit rate.
Proximity to talent matters, but head coaches matter A TON in college football, and like with recruits, a 5-star is no guarantee and a 3-star may end up great, but the investment in 5-stars pays off dramatically due to their much higher success rate.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:10 AM ^
Yeah with Jim being in his first year and James Franklin and basically the whole west division being trash (except Fitzgerald who is great for NU...but at NU). The 90's were the best. The conference had Carr, Saban, Paterno (rot in hell motherfucker), Alvarez, Walker, and Mason.
Franklin will be fired after this year. Riley, Chryst, and Ferentz are all fart noises personified. Durkin and Ash are first year former coordinators at schools that dont promise many wins. Purdue has a coach that seems to be gaining favor as he takes the program further down into the depths of utter shit.
The B1G East could make a claim for the best division in football (probably second to the SEC West, but only probably), but I don't think this is the best generation of coaches. As someone else, mentioned the 60's were pretty stacked too.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:18 AM ^
I think the 1990s is my final answer as well. The 1960s were pretty good too though.
The crazy part about the 1990s is almost every fan base in the Big Ten can look back fondly on some part of that decade except for Illinois.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:28 AM ^
Wow yeah forgot them. Remember when Purdue was a respectable program? Churned out some NFL quarterbacks, danced around in the top 25 for awhile? Oh how the slightly above average have fallen...
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:33 AM ^
Purdue won the B1G & went to a Rose Bowl in 2000, their first since the 1960s. The way their program looks right now, this current drought may be even longer.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:36 AM ^
Illinois got Ron Turner at the end.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^
I think I need this question answered. They did have that one B1G championship & Sugar Bowl year with Kurt Kittner, but the rest of his career there was pretty forgettable. And 2001 was a terrible year for football in the Big Ten, but I guess a championship is a championship. Maybe I am giving Illinois football too much credit.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:46 AM ^
Are we sure kurt kittner didnt just change his name and enroll at OSU as Craig Krenzel? I always mix those two up and Krenzel looked pretty old...
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:22 AM ^
1999 was probably as strong as the conference ever got. Almost every team's coach was one of the best coaches in that program's history, and a lot of them ended up Hall of Famers. Just look at this lineup:
- #4 Wisconsin: Barry Alvarez
- #5 Michigan: Lloyd Carr
- #7 Michigan State: Nick Saban
- #11 Penn State: Joe Paterno
- #18 Minnesota: Glen Mason
- #24 Illinois: Ron Turner
- #25 Purdue: Joe Tiller
- Ohio State: John Cooper
- Indiana: Cam Cameron
- Northwestern: Randy Walker
- Iowa: Kirk Ferentz
If you go back one year you can substitute Ferentz for Hayden Fry(!) and Randy Walker for Gary Barnett, so 1998 has a good claim. Like the WORST guy on that list is a Bo Schembechler assistant who became a longtime NFL OC, onetime NFL HC, and is currently the OC for an SEC power program.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:37 AM ^
It's closer than I initially thought.
I'd take Alvarez over Chryst,
Harbaugh over Carr,
Saban over Dantonio (although Dantonio's had infinitely more success at MSU than Saban ever had, so I'm kind of torn)
Paterno over Franklin
Both remain to be seen but I think I take Mason over Claeys
and Lovie over Turner
Tiller over Hazell
Urban over Cooper
Wilson over Cameron
Fitz over Walker (although it's close)
and Ferentz is static.
So that's 5 and 5 counting Saban over Dantonio.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:43 AM ^
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August 2nd, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^
I would argue that Harbaugh has shown that he is better in terms of "quality of coach."
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:14 PM ^
Eh, I don't think so.
You need to wait a few more years on Harbaugh. He's only really had one stellar year in college (his last at Stanford).
I know the context of where teams were is important, but Harbaugh still has a lot to prove. I'm betting he will, and sooner rather than later.
August 2nd, 2016 at 11:10 AM ^
I like Carr, but he inherited a successful, blue blood program. He had a couple of outstanding years in an above average, and you could make the point that he was a good (above average) caretaker. Harbaugh, however, has built programs from nothing at SD, Stanford, and SF. He not only built them, he was very successful with them. I think Harbaugh's ceiling is (was, will be) far higher than Lloyd's ever was...
August 2nd, 2016 at 11:20 AM ^
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August 2nd, 2016 at 11:28 AM ^
He won a National Championship. He won or shared 5 Big Ten Championships. He never had a season with a losing record or without a bowl game. I think this last decade has shown that it takes more than just inheriting a blue blood program to be successful. Not to mention that Carr entered his job at a time when the Big Ten was extremely deep and competitive in a time with more parity due to the new 85 scholarship limit. Bo never had to deal with that. In his first two years, he beat undefeated OSU teams that may have won the National Championship if it weren't for him & Michigan. His final couple years left something to be desired, but I think that has clouded the memories of what he accomplished.
August 2nd, 2016 at 12:53 PM ^
You make some valid points, and perhaps I did go too far by saying "caretaker". But I do believe that Harbaugh has the higher ceiling. I think the Harbaughffense is more intricate, manly, and creative - all at the same time. I also think Harbaugh's staff is a better quality. Carr had some good people work for him through the years. But from top to bottom, JMFH is running an NFL program, not an 'NFL-like' program. Time is always the truth teller, but I like what I see today moreso than I liked what I saw from Carr at this point in his Head Coach life.
August 2nd, 2016 at 10:56 AM ^
Alvarez, Paterno, & Tiller are light years better than their counterparts. Whereas Carr, Turner, Cooper, and Walker are all much closer to their current day counterparts. I think you are losing something in your analysis by simplifying it so much.
And Mason is better than Claeys. Mason was better than Jerry Kill. I think Lovie Smith & Ron Turner is a wash until we see what Lovie Smith does. Lovie Smith has a solid NFL record, but he is also almost 60 years old in a rebuilding program. I have my doubts.
August 2nd, 2016 at 12:23 PM ^
- Barry Alvarez (+5) +++++ > Paul Chryst (0)
- Lloyd Carr (+3) -- < Jim Harbaugh (+5)
- Nick Saban (+5) + > Mark Dantonio (+4)
- Joe Paterno (+5) ++++++ > James Franklin (-1)
- Glen Mason (+3) +++++ > Tracy Claeys (-2)
- Ron Turner (+2) == Lovie Smith (+2)
- Joe Tiller (+4) ++++++++ > Darrell Hazell (-4)
- John Cooper (+2) --- < Urban Meyer (+5)
- Cam Cameron (+1) -- < Kevin Wilson (+3)
-
Randy Walker (+4) == Pat Fitzgerald (+4) OR
Gary Barnett (+3) - < Pat Fitzgerald -
Kirk Ferentz (+2) == Kirk Ferentz (+2) OR
Hayden Fry (+5) +++ > Kirk Ferentz - Mike Riley (-1) n/a
- Chris Ash (0) n/a
- DJ Durkin (0) n/a
Not counting expansions (which saves us from having to consider two first-time head coaches and Mike Riley for whom I'd call my -1 generous, I have 1999 at +18 and 1998 at +20 over 2016 in this TOTALLY SCIENTIFIC (not at all scientific) comparison.
August 2nd, 2016 at 11:51 PM ^
August 2nd, 2016 at 12:56 PM ^
When you look at Hayden Fry, he had the most all-star coaching staff I've seen: Ferentz, Alvarez, Bob Stoops, among others.
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August 2nd, 2016 at 10:35 AM ^
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