Assistant coaches visting Dunn today
November 30th, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^
I think running back is such a natural position based on athleticism that good running backs, for the most part, are going to find success at the next level. There's a certain amount of coaching for running backs, but it's much less technique oriented than most other positions. But Miami has obviously done a great job of identifying those "next level" players.
I think Michigan's running backs have been athletically inferior for the better part of 20 years, actually. Hart, Thomas, Perry, etc. - not many of them have been great athletes, but they're good athletes who had great offensive lines. Wheatley was a bit of a freak, though, and I think Toussaint is more athletically gifted than Hart, Thomas, and Perry, too. That doesn't mean Toussaint is better, because Toussaint isn't a very good blocker...but if we're talking about agility drills, speed drills, etc., I bet Toussaint would come out on top.
November 30th, 2011 at 1:38 PM ^
I think it is the goal of most coaches to recruit guys that are destined for the NFL. Some are better than others at developing talent (e.g. Kirk Ferentz), but they still want to start with the best talent possible.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^
He's never had a 1,000 back. Why would you think that would change, especially with Braxton Miller at QB?
November 30th, 2011 at 11:19 AM ^
Ummm...I didn't say that I think it would change.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^
In addition, Meyer has apparently (according to the internet, which is never wrong) said that he plans to run some I formation at OSU. Whether he really said that and whether that is true remains uncertain, of course.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:45 AM ^
I will be shocked. All this guy has run for 10 years and 3 schools is the spread.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:56 AM ^
I will be shocked - shocked - if he lied to the kid! There is gambling going on in this establishment?!
November 30th, 2011 at 12:54 PM ^
I think Some is the key word here. He will run some I formation when it's 1st and goal from the 6 inch line. Brionte! You're in!
November 30th, 2011 at 10:48 AM ^
He doesn't want their biggest rival to steal arguably their best recruit. That's a legitimate reason to want to keep him on board.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:01 AM ^
All I can think of is Meyer wouldn't want negative publicity, losing one of your best commits to your biggest rival right after you take the job wouldn't look to good. Especially if Dunn pans out to be a great player, and Meyer struggles
November 30th, 2011 at 11:14 AM ^
It's worth it to just lie to the kid.
November 30th, 2011 at 2:49 PM ^
He won't technically "lie", he'll just say things like "I have not been offered nor have I accepted a position as head coach at Ohio State".
He'll tell the kid what he wants to hear. What's he going to say "you are not a good fit for our spread offense, but we want you just to keep Michigan from getting you?"
Brionte (and his parents) will have to read between those lines himself.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^
Meyer turned Tebow into a great running back his frosh year. LOL
November 30th, 2011 at 11:56 AM ^
>>but I want to know why Meyer would want Brionte so bad?
I don't think he's going to pull the kids schollie offer, but of course the most trivial answer is: Meyer didn't sign the kid or recruit him. That happened earlier. It would just be insane for Meyer, even if he doesn't think the kid will fit, to boot him. That just ain't going to happen.
Rob
November 30th, 2011 at 10:56 AM ^
Double Post
November 30th, 2011 at 10:55 AM ^
Someone suggested it be a diary since it is of interest for this period where Brionte is the focus of attention. That wouldbe fine by me, but I have no idea how to make that happen and I can't start a new thread.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
This is ALL about early enrollment. Dunn has a week or two basically to decide. We will know shortly.
I wish this kid the best. I think he goes blue, but if not, so be it...Wes Brown and others wait in the wings.
November 30th, 2011 at 1:27 PM ^
see magnus's posts on the first page of this thread
November 30th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
This is a Dunn deal. Sorry.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:08 AM ^
I believe that a head coach can only have an in person visit one time per year, so I'm assuming he already had and cannot go again.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^
November 30th, 2011 at 10:41 AM ^
I think if he enrolls early, there is no doubt he will be blue. However, if he decides to graduate in May, and let's the NCAA process play out at Ohio, and they get a slap on the wrist, our chances go down substantially.
November 30th, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^
I guess he can hold out, but kids usually sign on NLOI day which is in Feb.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:50 AM ^
A year ago it was Demetrius Hart pulling away from us because he didn't want to be part of a spread. Now it's Dunn giving us a good hard look... because he doesn't want to be part of a spread.
I will say this... after Lloyd left, one of my biggest fears about the program's direction was that, as a spread team, we would no longer produce NFL-ready players. All kidding about slot ninjas aside, becoming a part of the Rodriguez offense didn't necessarily guarantee a smooth translation into an NFL career, and I think it's fair to contemplate that this perception hurt recruiting quite a bit.
Enter Hoke.
It's hard not to think that the strong foundation of UM football is back, the one that catapaulted so many talented athletes into professional careers in the NFL.
I would think that if Dunn was really still interested in OSU, he'd wait to hear what the NCAA says. But certainly he seems more 'previously committed' than currently committed to the Buckeyes. I am impressed with the idea that he respects the integrity of a verbal commitment, and after the Pharaoh debacle I'm sure he understands what Hoke thinks about it as well.
It will all sort itself out, and I'm sure today's visit will give the young man and his family a lot to think about.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:56 AM ^
I agree on the idea that spread-type players wouldn't be great fits in the NFL. And if you look at Meyer's players at Florida, they either haven't made it in the NFL or aren't very highly regarded as NFL prospects. The one or two exceptions are Percy Harvin, who has had a decent career so far, and Tim Tebow, who is being roundly criticized but is 5-1 as a starter.
By the way, Demetrius Hart pulled away from Michigan because he didn't want to play in the spread...then he went to Alabama, played cornerback, and tore his ACL.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:02 AM ^
Do you think Saban will sign his transfer papers to Tuscon?
November 30th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^
"And if you look at Meyer's players at Florida, they either haven't made it in the NFL or aren't very highly regarded as NFL prospects."
I'm assuming that you are referring to "skill position" players, right?
November 30th, 2011 at 12:10 PM ^
Yeah, I'm talking about running backs, wide receivers, and quarterbacks. I should have made that distinction, I guess.
November 30th, 2011 at 1:37 PM ^
the first i read he was playing DB? that true? if so wow. kid really wanted to be a running back didnt he, and saban switched him to DB his first year?
November 30th, 2011 at 2:42 PM ^
Yep. I think Hart just wanted to play for a winner...and Rodriguez wasn't getting the job done.
November 30th, 2011 at 3:21 PM ^
He played RB in Alabama's spring game. Did he get switched after that?
November 30th, 2011 at 11:07 AM ^
I thought he pulled away because RR was getting the axe.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
I posted this yesterday in a recruiting thread but it is more appropriate here. Kind of long, but if you want to see what Urban has done with backs to help prove the point that Michigan is a better fit for Brionte, you might find this interesting.
______________________________________________________________________
Sorry if this isn't the correct place to post this, it is long. Feel free to delete or move wherever...
We’ve heard all the comments about Dunn not being a good fit for Urban Meyer’s offense. Dunn himself believes (or believed) that. While I think we all know that Dunn would be better preparing himself as an NFL back by coming to Michigan, I thought I’d take a deeper look at the issue. We all believe things like Urban doesn’t use big backs, he doesn’t feature running backs in his offense, to the extent that he does run the ball, he spreads it around a ton, etc. etc. I thought we should look at some data so we can better evaluate those contentions.
My bottom line if I were advising Dunn would be to listen to what Urban has to say but put more of an emphasis on objective data. That data supports what this board has been saying for weeks - Michigan is a much better fit if he wants college to prepare him to be a featured back in the NFL.
URBAN MEYER
Bowling Green 2001 - Rushing yards split fairly equally 3 ways with the QB leading in yards and TDs. QB Harris (129 carries 600 yards, 8 TDs) RB Alls (129 carries 553 yards 3 TDs), RB Gibson (97 carries 443 yards 3 TDs)
Bowling Green 2002 - Rushing yards split 3 ways again RB Joe Alls (122 carries 800 yards 4 TDs) QB Harris (186 carries 740 yards 20 TDs), RB Pope (101 carries 580 yards 4 TDs)
The two years after Meyer left, RB production went up in yards and TD's and Pope ran for 1000 yards both years.
Utah 2003 - RB Warfield (237 carries 975 yards 15 TDs) QB Smith (149 carries 500 yards, 5 TDs)
Utah 2004 - RB Johnson (165 carries 800 yards, 14 TDs) RB Ganther (109 carries 650 yards 2 TDs) QB Smith (135 carries 630 yards 10 TDs)
As Meyer implemented his offense more, it appears he was moving away from a feature back and the production of the feature back went down
Florida 2005 - RB by committee. RB Wynn (130 carries 621 yards 7 TDs), RB Manson (81 carries 365 yards 2 TDs), RB Moore (48 carries 277 yards, 1 TD)
Florida 2006 - More of the same. RB Wynn (143 carries 699 yards, 6 TDs), QB Tebow (89 carries 470 yards, 8TDs), WR Harvin (41 carries 428, 3 TDs), RB Moore (54 carries 282 yards, 2 TDs)
Florida 2007 - More of the same, except top RB is now behind a QB and a WR. QB Tebow (210 carries 895 yards 23 TDs), WR Harvin (83 carries 764 yards 6 TDs), RB Moore (104 carries 580 yards 6 TDs)
Florida 2008 – More of the same, top RB again behind a QB and WR. QB Tebow (176 carries 673 yards 12 TDs), WR Harvin (70 carries 660 yards 10 TDs), RB Rainey (84 carries 652 yards 4 TDs), RB Demps (78 carries 605 yards 7 TDs), RB Moody (58 carries 417 yards 1 TD)
Florida 2009 – More of the same RB by committee. QB Tebow (217 carries 910 yards 14 TDs), RB Demps (99 carries 745 yards 7 TDs), RB Rainey (89 carries 575 yards 5 TDs), RB Moody (58 carries 378 yards 3 TDs), RB Gillislee (31 carries 267 yards, 1 TD)
Florida 2010 – Not even worth breaking down. 6 players rushed for over 200 yards. 6 players had over 50 carries. No player had over 92 carries. RB Demps led with 511 yards. 1 of the 6 was QBs and one was Rainey who now was listed as a WR.
Compare that to Borges
Indiana 2002 – Top 3 rushers all RBs. RB Washington (174 carries 688 yards 9 TDs), RB Lewis (104 carries 458 yards, 0 TDs), RB Taylor (48 carries 229 yards, 2 TDs)
Indiana 2003 – Top 3 rushers all RBs with one feature back. RB Green-Ellis (yes, The Law Firm) (225 carries 938 yards, 7 TDs), RB Taylor (116 carries 464 yards, 3 TDs), RB Lewis (90 carries 398 yards, 3 TDs)
Auburn 2004 – Almost all rushing yards by a two back system. Special talents Ronnie Brown (153 carries 913 yards 8 TDs) and Cadillac Williams (239 carries 1165 yards, 12 TDs).
Auburn 2005 – Featured RB Kenny Irons (256 carries 1293 yards, 13 TDs), RB Lester (52 carries 339 yards 5 TDs), RB Smith (56 carries 289 yards, 3 TDs)
Auburn 2006 – Featured RB Irons (198 carries 893 yards 4 TDs), RB Lester (104 carries 510 yards, 9 TDs), RB Tate (54 carries 392 yards 3 TDs). Irons had a number of nagging injuries that year (according to Wiki)
Auburn 2007 – Featured RB Tate (202 carries 903 yards 8TDs), RB Lester (125 carries 530 yards 3 TDs), RB Fannin (84 carries 448 yards 5TDs). Note Borges then left and Auburn went more pass spread (2008) the following year and Tate’s number went down to 159 carries for 664 yards before bouncing back under Malzahn’s (more Borges-like spread???recollection and eyeball test only) to 263 carries for 1362 yards and 10 TDs in his senior season.
SDSU 2009 – RB Sullivan (154 carries 558 yards 4 TDs), RB Kazee (86 carries 371 yards 2 TDs)
SDSU 2010 – RB Hillman (262 carries 1464 yards 17 TDs), RB Kazee (67 carries 314 yards 3 TDs)
Michigan 2011 – QB Robinson (208 carries 1163 yards 13 TDs) RB Toussaint (174 carries 1011 yards 9 TDs) RB Smith (49 carries 296 yards 2 TDs), RB Shaw (31 carries 199 yards 3 TDs)
The data supports what Borges has been telling us all along – that he wants a featured back and only deviates from that if he doesn’t have such a talent at his disposal. Urban, no matter what he says, runs a ton with scat backs and only uses players like Dunn as situational runners, not featured runners. Furthermore, as Urban gets further into his tenure he uses his running backs less and less.
I would tell Brionte that unless Urban deviates from what has worked for him the past 8 years you are looking at the following projections.
If Brionte Dunn is a very good college back and stays injury free, during the years that he is the best back at either school he would be looking at twice and many carries at Michigan and twice the yardage production. My best guess would be over 200 carries for 1200-1600 yards per season at Michigan versus 100ish carries for 600-800 yards at OSU. That is an enormous difference and is one that turns a potential Heisman candidate into an anonymous back at a good school.
I am a homer, but to me the decision seems obvious if Brionte can detach himself from his childhood aspirations of playing for OSU. If he cannot, then I wish him well. He’ll still be a good player, he just won’t get the recognition and attention that his talent deserves.
Go Blue!
November 30th, 2011 at 11:10 AM ^
Not that we negatively recruit, but this would be a fun set of knowledge for Fred to bring with him.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:00 PM ^
This is exactly what I was talking about above. Thanks!
November 30th, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
Quick someone tweet this to him asap!!!
November 30th, 2011 at 2:27 PM ^
And just how many tweets would that take?
November 30th, 2011 at 4:47 PM ^
Hey, if Tate Forcier can tweet his 4-page statement of goodbyes to U of M, then someone can def tweet this.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:52 AM ^
whatever it becomes. If he chooses to come, we welcome him with big smile. If not, we wish good luck to him.
Talent is definitely important, yet from my extremely amaturish POV, it is up to the coaches (to a degree, of course) to teach and train the players, and the team plays as a team. We did push Fitz to a 1000+ yard season right?
November 30th, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
And he did it without doing much at all in a few games. Next year, if the OL can replace Molk (with someone serviceable, obviously not with someone as good as Molk yet) I could see Toussaint going HAM on the schedule and racking up over 1500 yards.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:05 AM ^
Hopefully something changes but if he delays or does not enroll early he is going to O$U.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:09 AM ^
Don't know where you're getting your information.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:11 AM ^
We don't use that here. Simply call them Ohio or feel the wrath that ensues.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:28 AM ^
BK Finest?
November 30th, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
November 30th, 2011 at 11:41 AM ^
November 30th, 2011 at 11:44 AM ^
Last ditch effort? I won't be crushed if he goes to Ohio. Fitz has a couple years. I'd like to see WRs, OLs, and CBs. Maybe one certain TE as well. Anyone can run behind a good line, so we should focus on that. There's a reason that Hart, Perry, Thomas, Howard, etc were all good college backs and didn't last long in the NFL. Meanwhile, Hutchinson, Jansen, Backus, Goodwin, Baas, etc all had/have nice NFL careers. It's all about the line. Just like Wisconsin. Even ND is made Jonas Gray look like he was decent with their improved Oline.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^
Perry's issue was health (he was 1st rounder), Thomas had a couple of really productive years before the Train broke down, let's not dismiss our RB talent that quickly...
November 30th, 2011 at 12:23 PM ^
Thomas had two 1000-yard seasons in which he averaged just over 4 yards a carry. He also averaged 3.5, 3.4, 3.3, 2.5 , 2.4, and 2.1 yards per carry with a career average of 3.7. He was a good college runner, an average NFL runner, and just an average overall athlete.
Chris Perry was never a great athlete, either.
Michigan's offensive lines were EXCELLENT for several decades. There's a reason that Michigan gained tons of yards on the ground, won consistently with a run-first attitude, and yet never produced great athletes at the running back position in the NFL. Jon Runyan, Jeff Backus, Steve Hutchinson, Jake Long, etc. made those running backs, not the other way around.