You work your magic, Mr. Jackson!
spoiler alert: i linked this
You work your magic, Mr. Jackson!
Dunn is like Fitz, except with Tyrone Wheatley's size and Denard Robinson's speed! Michigan needs him!
I think size more than speed is Dunn's game. He reminds me of Anthony Thomas -- big, strong, physical back very competent between the tackles and enough speed to run outside the tackles.
100M Bri'onte's best is 11.42; Denards is 10.56
200M Bri'onte's best is 22.95; Denard's is 21.89
Plenty darn fast for a big man, but not lightening fast.
Denard's best was a 10.28 100M dash his senior year, one of the fastest times in the country that year.
with Mike Hart's agility and Denard Robinson's speed and Tom Harmon's playmaking ability.
You're comparing a mortal to dilithium. Of course he looks slow next to Denard. Who doesn't?
I have a bad feeling that he stays a buckeye. He'll surely be getting a ton of pressure and Urban Meyer is a pretty good recruiter too.
Have you ever seen a power runner is ANY of Meyers offenses over the years? NO
Has Meyer ever had a 1000 yard rusher in his offense? NO
Is Urban going to change and build his offense around a senior in HS recruit? NO
Unless Brionte is interested in playing LB, I don't see him playing for the buckeyes.
Meyer did try to change his offense around John Braneley IV. Look where it got him: disguested enough to quit put the team in such a hole that Ron Zook almost looks like he was a decent coach. Maybe we're going to be happy either way.
If I were Meyer, I'd argue that in the short term, OSU will be more like a pro-style offense and Michigan is still clearly a spread. Plus with Toussant just putting up a 1000-yard season as a Sophomore, he might have a better chance to start right away at OSU.
The other side of that is that Michigan's already proved it can get a RB some spotlight even in the early stages of the 'transition' and OSU hasn't even begun the process. Plus, even if the sanctions are mild, less scholarship players is less talent around you to make you look even better.
Brionte said he talked to Urban and the conversation went well. He also said the reason he (Urban) never had a big back in his offense because he always had smaller scat backs. Complete bull...
Dunn said it himself that he didn't want to play in the spread offense.
Man, I hope I'm wrong.
With his recruitment I would say the biggest thing is that he wants to enroll early. There is still no word on what the NCAA is planning on doing in terms of bowl bans and that is something that is very important to Dunn and his father. Things look good for Michigan consider he is a soft OSU commit and he was standing on the opposite side for a visit during The Game.
I read that a ruling is expected within 2 weeks or so for OSU. I'm on my phone so I can't look up where I read it.
You are correct. It was on ESPN somewhere.
There was a recent comment where he said he might not enroll early anymore.
Thanks I did not see that. I wish him the best where ever he decides to go.
I don't like the sounds of that..
I thought he was going to EE, but then changed his mind, but recently said that he yet again plans to enroll early.
When did this change?
It was in an article from a day or two ago.
"Son, you remind me of Bo Jackson...but with more speed." Dunn will be ours, book it.
"You are a combination of Tyrone Wheatley, Mike Hart, and Biakabatuka.... but shiftier, bigger, and faster"
"Son, I have been here forever and I have coached a lot of good ones. Tyrone Wheatley, Timmy B, Chirs Howard, Chris Perry, Miek hart... You are a combination of all of them except bigger and faster. I have no doubt you will be at the top of the record books in every category by the time you are a senior."
Edit: damn! redundant!
I assume Meyer will do what he can to keep him on board if only to avoid any negative publicity so early in his tenure.
I am sure Meyer is putting the full court press on Bri-Onte. Let's face it, he's theirs to lose (seeing as he's a commit). But he came to our last two games and stood on OUR sidelines.......AGAINST THE TEAM HE'S COMMITTED TO. I think that's a pretty good indication of where he's leaning.
Sure he stood on our side, but that was before Meyer was named head coach. But he's getting strong and constant pressure from his cousin (Thomas) and others (Morris). I still think he a tOSU committ until we can convince him to do otherwise.
That was before he was "officially" names the head coach. Pretty much everyone already knew Meyer was going to OSU as the coach. Having his cousin on board I think really helps us. I am sure he is in his ear every day about playing together.
also want to keep him out of the winged helmet too. Dunn will destroy ohio and Meyer knows it. So it is in Meyer's best interest to lie and keep him on the sidelines instead of on the field wearing the Block M.
Jerel Worthy thinks the same thing.
However, Michigan's uniform has no block M.
There was a really informative post in one of the Dunn threads about Meyer's lack of track record when it comes to developing RBs. I wish I could find it now b/c it was really in depth and interesting.
This is informative, not exactly what you were looking for though
"both are world-class academic instituions"
I laughed so hard I think I sharted. I'm afraid to look though.
Oh i forgot to mention to ignore everything besides the numbers.. haha
We all have asked why BRIONTE would want to go to OSU in Meyer's system... but I want to know why Meyer would want Brionte so bad?
Seriously, I can't recall a single running back (Dunn's style) that Meyer has recruited that has done anything but block... I am kind of hoping that Meyer and Brionte have a mutual parting of ways. Then Brionte will gash the Buckeye defense for years to come.
Whoops. Meant to mark you insightful but it went redundant.
As a coach you want to get as much talent as possible. Bri'onte Dunn might not be a prototypical back for Meyer, but he might be a better option than some other 5'7", 160 lb. kid who's a nobody recruit. Lots of kids are leery of going to a place like OSU right now, so he won't necessarily be able to woo every awesome scatback out there.
Besides, I think too much is being made of the Meyer/powerback thing. True, he's always had smaller backs...but that doesn't mean Dunn couldn't have success on par with some of his smaller backs. He won't have success in the same way (i.e. getting to the outside), but he could be an inside zone runner just as effectively.
I think Meyer is also trying to save face and not lose a high-profile kid from within the state.
All that being said, I think Dunn has better options and I think Meyer would prefer a different kind of back. But I also think Meyer could find a use for him and not just have him sit on the bench for four years.
All being said though, it has to be mutual. Even if Meyer wants him, Brionte still has to commit to the system for his college career.
At the end of the day - Michigan football traditionally puts RBs in the NFL, Meyer has not.
We may put them there but they haven't exactly been all that successful.
Their development depends on themselves and the coaches at the next level at that point.
You're right, but high school kids are going to be more impressed by players who actually have success in the NFL. We all love Tim Biakabutuka, Tyrone Wheatley, Anthony Thomas, Mike Hart, and Chris Perry, but they never really did much in the NFL. Places like Miami (McGahee, James) and Oklahoma (Peterson, Murray) probably have more clout than Michigan right now when it comes to producing running backs.
Which is why I am very glad this is pretty much between Ohio State and Michigan.
Do you think that Miami and Oklahoma "produce" NFL running backs or do they recruit the guys that are destined for the NFL? This is serious question. I wonder what you think. I could see either answer being right, maybe a little of both.
I think running back is such a natural position based on athleticism that good running backs, for the most part, are going to find success at the next level. There's a certain amount of coaching for running backs, but it's much less technique oriented than most other positions. But Miami has obviously done a great job of identifying those "next level" players.
I think Michigan's running backs have been athletically inferior for the better part of 20 years, actually. Hart, Thomas, Perry, etc. - not many of them have been great athletes, but they're good athletes who had great offensive lines. Wheatley was a bit of a freak, though, and I think Toussaint is more athletically gifted than Hart, Thomas, and Perry, too. That doesn't mean Toussaint is better, because Toussaint isn't a very good blocker...but if we're talking about agility drills, speed drills, etc., I bet Toussaint would come out on top.
I think it is the goal of most coaches to recruit guys that are destined for the NFL. Some are better than others at developing talent (e.g. Kirk Ferentz), but they still want to start with the best talent possible.
He's never had a 1,000 back. Why would you think that would change, especially with Braxton Miller at QB?
Ummm...I didn't say that I think it would change.
In addition, Meyer has apparently (according to the internet, which is never wrong) said that he plans to run some I formation at OSU. Whether he really said that and whether that is true remains uncertain, of course.
I will be shocked. All this guy has run for 10 years and 3 schools is the spread.
I will be shocked - shocked - if he lied to the kid! There is gambling going on in this establishment?!
I think Some is the key word here. He will run some I formation when it's 1st and goal from the 6 inch line. Brionte! You're in!
He doesn't want their biggest rival to steal arguably their best recruit. That's a legitimate reason to want to keep him on board.
All I can think of is Meyer wouldn't want negative publicity, losing one of your best commits to your biggest rival right after you take the job wouldn't look to good. Especially if Dunn pans out to be a great player, and Meyer struggles
It's worth it to just lie to the kid.
He won't technically "lie", he'll just say things like "I have not been offered nor have I accepted a position as head coach at Ohio State".
He'll tell the kid what he wants to hear. What's he going to say "you are not a good fit for our spread offense, but we want you just to keep Michigan from getting you?"
Brionte (and his parents) will have to read between those lines himself.
>>but I want to know why Meyer would want Brionte so bad?
I don't think he's going to pull the kids schollie offer, but of course the most trivial answer is: Meyer didn't sign the kid or recruit him. That happened earlier. It would just be insane for Meyer, even if he doesn't think the kid will fit, to boot him. That just ain't going to happen.
Someone suggested it be a diary since it is of interest for this period where Brionte is the focus of attention. That wouldbe fine by me, but I have no idea how to make that happen and I can't start a new thread.
This is ALL about early enrollment. Dunn has a week or two basically to decide. We will know shortly.
I wish this kid the best. I think he goes blue, but if not, so be it...Wes Brown and others wait in the wings.
see magnus's posts on the first page of this thread
This is a Dunn deal. Sorry.
I believe that a head coach can only have an in person visit one time per year, so I'm assuming he already had and cannot go again.
Good info I didn't know that. Thanks.
I think if he enrolls early, there is no doubt he will be blue. However, if he decides to graduate in May, and let's the NCAA process play out at Ohio, and they get a slap on the wrist, our chances go down substantially.
I guess he can hold out, but kids usually sign on NLOI day which is in Feb.
A year ago it was Demetrius Hart pulling away from us because he didn't want to be part of a spread. Now it's Dunn giving us a good hard look... because he doesn't want to be part of a spread.
I will say this... after Lloyd left, one of my biggest fears about the program's direction was that, as a spread team, we would no longer produce NFL-ready players. All kidding about slot ninjas aside, becoming a part of the Rodriguez offense didn't necessarily guarantee a smooth translation into an NFL career, and I think it's fair to contemplate that this perception hurt recruiting quite a bit.
It's hard not to think that the strong foundation of UM football is back, the one that catapaulted so many talented athletes into professional careers in the NFL.
I would think that if Dunn was really still interested in OSU, he'd wait to hear what the NCAA says. But certainly he seems more 'previously committed' than currently committed to the Buckeyes. I am impressed with the idea that he respects the integrity of a verbal commitment, and after the Pharaoh debacle I'm sure he understands what Hoke thinks about it as well.
It will all sort itself out, and I'm sure today's visit will give the young man and his family a lot to think about.
I agree on the idea that spread-type players wouldn't be great fits in the NFL. And if you look at Meyer's players at Florida, they either haven't made it in the NFL or aren't very highly regarded as NFL prospects. The one or two exceptions are Percy Harvin, who has had a decent career so far, and Tim Tebow, who is being roundly criticized but is 5-1 as a starter.
By the way, Demetrius Hart pulled away from Michigan because he didn't want to play in the spread...then he went to Alabama, played cornerback, and tore his ACL.
Do you think Saban will sign his transfer papers to Tuscon?
"And if you look at Meyer's players at Florida, they either haven't made it in the NFL or aren't very highly regarded as NFL prospects."
I'm assuming that you are referring to "skill position" players, right?
Yeah, I'm talking about running backs, wide receivers, and quarterbacks. I should have made that distinction, I guess.
the first i read he was playing DB? that true? if so wow. kid really wanted to be a running back didnt he, and saban switched him to DB his first year?
I thought he pulled away because RR was getting the axe.
I posted this yesterday in a recruiting thread but it is more appropriate here. Kind of long, but if you want to see what Urban has done with backs to help prove the point that Michigan is a better fit for Brionte, you might find this interesting.
Sorry if this isn't the correct place to post this, it is long. Feel free to delete or move wherever...
We’ve heard all the comments about Dunn not being a good fit for Urban Meyer’s offense. Dunn himself believes (or believed) that. While I think we all know that Dunn would be better preparing himself as an NFL back by coming to Michigan, I thought I’d take a deeper look at the issue. We all believe things like Urban doesn’t use big backs, he doesn’t feature running backs in his offense, to the extent that he does run the ball, he spreads it around a ton, etc. etc. I thought we should look at some data so we can better evaluate those contentions.
My bottom line if I were advising Dunn would be to listen to what Urban has to say but put more of an emphasis on objective data. That data supports what this board has been saying for weeks - Michigan is a much better fit if he wants college to prepare him to be a featured back in the NFL.
Bowling Green 2001 - Rushing yards split fairly equally 3 ways with the QB leading in yards and TDs. QB Harris (129 carries 600 yards, 8 TDs) RB Alls (129 carries 553 yards 3 TDs), RB Gibson (97 carries 443 yards 3 TDs)
Bowling Green 2002 - Rushing yards split 3 ways again RB Joe Alls (122 carries 800 yards 4 TDs) QB Harris (186 carries 740 yards 20 TDs), RB Pope (101 carries 580 yards 4 TDs)
The two years after Meyer left, RB production went up in yards and TD's and Pope ran for 1000 yards both years.
Utah 2003 - RB Warfield (237 carries 975 yards 15 TDs) QB Smith (149 carries 500 yards, 5 TDs)
Utah 2004 - RB Johnson (165 carries 800 yards, 14 TDs) RB Ganther (109 carries 650 yards 2 TDs) QB Smith (135 carries 630 yards 10 TDs)
As Meyer implemented his offense more, it appears he was moving away from a feature back and the production of the feature back went down
Florida 2005 - RB by committee. RB Wynn (130 carries 621 yards 7 TDs), RB Manson (81 carries 365 yards 2 TDs), RB Moore (48 carries 277 yards, 1 TD)
Florida 2006 - More of the same. RB Wynn (143 carries 699 yards, 6 TDs), QB Tebow (89 carries 470 yards, 8TDs), WR Harvin (41 carries 428, 3 TDs), RB Moore (54 carries 282 yards, 2 TDs)
Florida 2007 - More of the same, except top RB is now behind a QB and a WR. QB Tebow (210 carries 895 yards 23 TDs), WR Harvin (83 carries 764 yards 6 TDs), RB Moore (104 carries 580 yards 6 TDs)
Florida 2008 – More of the same, top RB again behind a QB and WR. QB Tebow (176 carries 673 yards 12 TDs), WR Harvin (70 carries 660 yards 10 TDs), RB Rainey (84 carries 652 yards 4 TDs), RB Demps (78 carries 605 yards 7 TDs), RB Moody (58 carries 417 yards 1 TD)
Florida 2009 – More of the same RB by committee. QB Tebow (217 carries 910 yards 14 TDs), RB Demps (99 carries 745 yards 7 TDs), RB Rainey (89 carries 575 yards 5 TDs), RB Moody (58 carries 378 yards 3 TDs), RB Gillislee (31 carries 267 yards, 1 TD)
Florida 2010 – Not even worth breaking down. 6 players rushed for over 200 yards. 6 players had over 50 carries. No player had over 92 carries. RB Demps led with 511 yards. 1 of the 6 was QBs and one was Rainey who now was listed as a WR.
Compare that to Borges
Indiana 2002 – Top 3 rushers all RBs. RB Washington (174 carries 688 yards 9 TDs), RB Lewis (104 carries 458 yards, 0 TDs), RB Taylor (48 carries 229 yards, 2 TDs)
Indiana 2003 – Top 3 rushers all RBs with one feature back. RB Green-Ellis (yes, The Law Firm) (225 carries 938 yards, 7 TDs), RB Taylor (116 carries 464 yards, 3 TDs), RB Lewis (90 carries 398 yards, 3 TDs)
Auburn 2004 – Almost all rushing yards by a two back system. Special talents Ronnie Brown (153 carries 913 yards 8 TDs) and Cadillac Williams (239 carries 1165 yards, 12 TDs).
Auburn 2005 – Featured RB Kenny Irons (256 carries 1293 yards, 13 TDs), RB Lester (52 carries 339 yards 5 TDs), RB Smith (56 carries 289 yards, 3 TDs)
Auburn 2006 – Featured RB Irons (198 carries 893 yards 4 TDs), RB Lester (104 carries 510 yards, 9 TDs), RB Tate (54 carries 392 yards 3 TDs). Irons had a number of nagging injuries that year (according to Wiki)
Auburn 2007 – Featured RB Tate (202 carries 903 yards 8TDs), RB Lester (125 carries 530 yards 3 TDs), RB Fannin (84 carries 448 yards 5TDs). Note Borges then left and Auburn went more pass spread (2008) the following year and Tate’s number went down to 159 carries for 664 yards before bouncing back under Malzahn’s (more Borges-like spread???recollection and eyeball test only) to 263 carries for 1362 yards and 10 TDs in his senior season.
SDSU 2009 – RB Sullivan (154 carries 558 yards 4 TDs), RB Kazee (86 carries 371 yards 2 TDs)
SDSU 2010 – RB Hillman (262 carries 1464 yards 17 TDs), RB Kazee (67 carries 314 yards 3 TDs)
Michigan 2011 – QB Robinson (208 carries 1163 yards 13 TDs) RB Toussaint (174 carries 1011 yards 9 TDs) RB Smith (49 carries 296 yards 2 TDs), RB Shaw (31 carries 199 yards 3 TDs)
The data supports what Borges has been telling us all along – that he wants a featured back and only deviates from that if he doesn’t have such a talent at his disposal. Urban, no matter what he says, runs a ton with scat backs and only uses players like Dunn as situational runners, not featured runners. Furthermore, as Urban gets further into his tenure he uses his running backs less and less.
I would tell Brionte that unless Urban deviates from what has worked for him the past 8 years you are looking at the following projections.
If Brionte Dunn is a very good college back and stays injury free, during the years that he is the best back at either school he would be looking at twice and many carries at Michigan and twice the yardage production. My best guess would be over 200 carries for 1200-1600 yards per season at Michigan versus 100ish carries for 600-800 yards at OSU. That is an enormous difference and is one that turns a potential Heisman candidate into an anonymous back at a good school.
I am a homer, but to me the decision seems obvious if Brionte can detach himself from his childhood aspirations of playing for OSU. If he cannot, then I wish him well. He’ll still be a good player, he just won’t get the recognition and attention that his talent deserves.
Not that we negatively recruit, but this would be a fun set of knowledge for Fred to bring with him.
This is exactly what I was talking about above. Thanks!
Quick someone tweet this to him asap!!!
whatever it becomes. If he chooses to come, we welcome him with big smile. If not, we wish good luck to him.
Talent is definitely important, yet from my extremely amaturish POV, it is up to the coaches (to a degree, of course) to teach and train the players, and the team plays as a team. We did push Fitz to a 1000+ yard season right?
And he did it without doing much at all in a few games. Next year, if the OL can replace Molk (with someone serviceable, obviously not with someone as good as Molk yet) I could see Toussaint going HAM on the schedule and racking up over 1500 yards.
Hopefully something changes but if he delays or does not enroll early he is going to O$U.
Don't know where you're getting your information.
We don't use that here. Simply call them Ohio or feel the wrath that ensues.
Who wouldn't want Fred Jackson as ones running backs Coach? I hope we get him. It would give "t"OSU fans more to be mad at.
Who wouldn't want Fred Jackson as ones running backs Coach? I hope we get him. It would give "t"OSU fans more to be mad at.
Perry's issue was health (he was 1st rounder), Thomas had a couple of really productive years before the Train broke down, let's not dismiss our RB talent that quickly...
Thomas had two 1000-yard seasons in which he averaged just over 4 yards a carry. He also averaged 3.5, 3.4, 3.3, 2.5 , 2.4, and 2.1 yards per carry with a career average of 3.7. He was a good college runner, an average NFL runner, and just an average overall athlete.
Chris Perry was never a great athlete, either.
Michigan's offensive lines were EXCELLENT for several decades. There's a reason that Michigan gained tons of yards on the ground, won consistently with a run-first attitude, and yet never produced great athletes at the running back position in the NFL. Jon Runyan, Jeff Backus, Steve Hutchinson, Jake Long, etc. made those running backs, not the other way around.
Meyer, I'm sure, could find a way to make Braxton Miller and Dunn work. Power inside runs, veer, whatever. You don't win 2 MNC's and then say "Dunn and Miller...geez, how does that even work?" And after he gets his Percy Harvin then he'll have Miller, Dunn, and Percy Harvin Clone. (Fuck!!) I'm sure he will find a way. I just hope Dunn likes what he hears on our side more than what he hears from Urban and Co. Either that or he saw Pipkins on Saturday and decided he wants to live to see 21.
He never has, so why would he start now? Deshawn Wynn was an absolute beast pimp out of Cincinnati when he signed with Florida. Meyer totally under utilized him for two years, that was clearly an intentional part of his system. Why would he change now?
Yeah I'm kinda surprised no Brady. Then again I'm sure Hoke spoke to him on the phone after the Meyer hiring. Go get em Fred.
I would love for Dunn to come to Michigan. But all this talk of Meyer not knowing how to use Dunn is turtle poop. Good coaches will adjust to maximize the talent of their players. At Florida Tebow just happened to be the best RB. I am sure if Meyer had a Peterson type back, he would have made use of him. Tebow just happened to be able to be the power guy from the QB position.
A power back can do just fine in the spread. Dunn is pretty much a Beanie Wells type back. Wells did just fine in a Troy Smith led spread. If Tressel can do it, Meyer will figure it out. So the question to me is how stubborn is Dunn in insisting he does not want to play in an offense that is publically a spread.
Very few people are saying Meyer wouldn't know how to use Dunn. Most, including me, based on recent history, are saying Meyer will choose not to use Dunn like Michigan will. That isn't because Meyer can't figure out how to, it is because Meyer's preferred system, which has been extremely successful for him, spreads the carries between a QB, a scat back, a WR/ATH and, a traditional back. The longer he has been at a place the more spread out teh workload has become.
I don't think Meyer will deviate from that blueprint. Why would he? Dunn will gets lots of carries at OSU and there is nothing about going to OSU that would prevent him from making it in the NFL. However, if Dunn feels he is the best, then he has a better opportunity to prove that at Michigan, while running an offense that will better prepare him for his future as an NFL tailback. Given those two scenarios, the logical choice is Michigan. Fighting that logical choice is his clear emotional attachment to a team and school he grew up loving. What will he do? Who knows. Michigan gives him a better chance for more carries, more yards, more TD's, more individual recognition, and, hopefully, more wins!
the efforts to recruit Dunn? Before Fitz started putting in 100+ yard games, Dunn might have perceived a chance to come in and start right away. Now he might perceive Fitz as blocking him for two years. On the other hand, Herron is gone at Ohio and he might perceive an opening right away, especially if he buys Urban's cock and bull story.
As long as he wouldn't be opposed to it he could RS and only have one year of Fitz potentially being ahead of him on the depth chart. With our depth at RB next year we could RS and still be ok there.
Other wise Hoke and Co. have made it clear that if you come in a win your position it doesn't matter who was ahead of you. Every spot in earned not given every week.
So let's say Dunn stays in Ohio. Who then becomes M's top recruiting target at RB? Wes Brown?
I sure hope so.
Warren Ball is also committed to Ohio State and seems to be much more solid than Dunn. Furthermore, he seems to have a similar build. Does anyone know what they're recruiting him for? Doesn't the fact that they already have a good four star running back sort of emphasize the fact that this might more of a publicity thing than anything else?
It just seems like OSU can do without Dunn with what they have. I do think letting Dunn go to a rival has a lot to do with it, but it doesn't seem like a necessary move on the surface (beyond the rival/publicity aspects).
be willing to let Dunn go if it's obvious Dunn just doesn't want to play there because it would free up a scholarship that Meyer could give to a player that fits his offense better. So, I don't think this is necessarily an "all or nothing" recruiting battle from Ohio's perspective.
Can't post my own stuff, so I thought it kind of fit here. If I'm reading this right, it looks like OSU just took the top spot for Noah Spence.
I would not want him and Adolphus Washington lining up against Michigan for The next 4 years. Yikes.
Just watched a highlight video of his Junior year, wow, he plays really aggressive. That's what Michigan needs all the O Lineman for.