I read this this morning and had the (somewhat embarrassing) feeling the article is about us. Good read nonetheless.
I read this this morning and had the (somewhat embarrassing) feeling the article is about us. Good read nonetheless.
The article mentions Notre Dame's nationally recruiting this year, but DOES NOT mention Sparty's national recruiting.
Haven't you heard? Sparty is recruiting internationally by offering some Canadians.
I think that blog post is talking about "us" when it devotes an entire paragraph to Michigan, yes.
This didn't ring ironically true to you (not that you have said this personally, but you've read it, if not verbatim then definitely in spirit):
When a recruit is up for grabs, we hope he makes the "right" choice, and if he doesn't we'll say: "If he wants to go there, he's not the kind of kid we thought he was. Him and Rival U will be perfect for each other."
I don't say that. I usually say, "Best of luck to you at Rival U"
I don't think Michigan fans are unique to that mentality.
Agreed, but we - the good guys - are definitely not above this kind of behavior.
I like the part of the article where he talks about how fans say the other school payed him off or picked the wrong team when a guy commits to another school. To which I say, "Well he should have picked the good guys then."
But I find it interesting that one of the broad conclusions is that we won't be able to compete with OSU unless we always have better recruits. While I'm sure that will make it easier, I'm pretty confident that having top notch coaches goes a long ways.
Urban Liar (ahahahahahahahah!!! Liar!!! Get it??!?!?! zOMG!!!!) is a fine recruiter and successful coach, but I'll take our coaches any day, whether that means having a few less bluechip recruits or not. I think the improvement from 2010 to 2011, combined with what he had done at Ball St and SDSU speaks volumes to that. I've got a sneaking suspicion, mostly due to ignorance, that the Meyer Magic won't be all everyone thinks it will be (assuming of course he's there for more than three years).
I know Urban has won some rings, but he even said Mattison was his closer when it came to recruiting and let's be honest what 17,18 year old kid isn't going to want to come to a school in southern Florida. Especially if he doesn't care about academics and having tough rules. (Urban letting guys get away with just about eveything) I would say that talent wise Florida's 08 team was slightly better than ours and what happen, better coaching. Llyod's staff out-coached urban and his staff that day. Hoke and his new staff are incredibly talented when it comes to coaching these kids. I think it is going to be a battle.It's really getting old hearing all this crap about how they are gonna win this and that, when they haven't proven shit yet. Sorry the more I typed the more aggrivated I became. I just wish I could go 3 years in the future and say "see told you"
Florida fans are screaming how Urban left them with a bunch of younger players that have character issues or are undersized speed burners. I'm not sure how much of this is sour grapes and how much of it is true. Be interesting to see what Florida supplies to the next draft or two. Urban's best years did seem to come with Zook's players or when he had Tebow. After that he fell of to 7-5 and now Boom is struggling with his players.
I fear Fickell more as a recruiter. He has access to the recruiting network that Tressel built and lots of ties to high school coaches in that state. Fickell's contacts, coupled with the "brand name" of Meyer is really danergous IMHO. However if we come out strong over the next couple of years there is a chance to damage that brand name and reduce Meyer's ability to establish himself.
It's only one class, but it's an important one (upperclass, outgoing) ... look at the guys Michigan lost in the '08 draft:
Now, look at Florida's '08 draft:
Just two guys, one of whom (Harvey) was effectively neutralized by our guy (Jake Long) in that game.
The '07 season was more of a transitional one for them. (It looked that way for Michigan for a couple of games, too ... eeee.)
Did they have more underclass talent? For sure -- look at who got picked in '10. But, it's the upperclass guys (particularly on the line) that tend to win those games.
Am I the ONLY ONE who sees the better-than-a-punters-chance of Meyer becoming OSU's RichRod? i.e.... who brings the SPREAD into the Michigan-OSU family of smash mouth football...
John Cooper did it and they turned on him.... RichRod did it and they turned on him...
Meyer is about to do so, and without a DC like Mattison.... and without immediate success next year, they WILL turn on him.
60% of Michigan fans don't understand what truly makes the Michigan-OSU family so special. We share so many of the same ideals, heck, our last 40 years were SPAWNED by them, with Bo coming from OSU's rib. A true Michigan fan wants OSU to win every game, except one... he also views them as their yang to our ying.
I guess I'm not a true Michigan fan if I have to root for Ohio State eleven weeks out of the year.
I wouldn't take it as far as he did, but still, Ohio State is different than any regular rival. Michigan isn't Michigan without Ohio State. Having them go 6-6 or 5-7 once in a while is fun, but the OSU rivalry is as much part of the Michigan brand as the winged helmets. It's not like Sparty, where if they suck, well, f'em. A good Ohio State is better for Michigan. A perennial superpower, no, but they have to at least be good.
He might not work out, but thinking that he's doomed because of the spread is idiotic. There are almost no parallels to the first year of the Rod era. First of all, Urban is an Ohio guy, so this is a homecoming of sorts for him, and probably the only job he would've taken at this time, while Rod was a West Virginia man who left for a bigger program. Urban has FULL SUPPORT from Ohio people. Rod NEVER did. The talent is not suddenly worse now like it was for Michigan in 2008.
Need I remind you Michigan lost Jake Long, Chade Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Ryan Mallett, Shawn Crable, Jamar Adams, Adam Kraus, and Justin Boren. That is quite a lot to lose. Ohio isn't losing anything like that this year and has a QB that is pretty ideal for what Urban wants to do on offense. I personally don't think they suddenly dominate either, but they aren't going 3-9 or 5-7 next year. You are NOT Rich Rod without missing consecutive bowl games in consecutive years.
He was at OSU for 13 years and kept their program at a very high level. He got fired for his record against us and in bowl games, not because his system didn't work.
Maybe 40 years ago, UM and OSU shared a lot of the same ideals and were a lot more alike than they are now. I can't look at their administration and their fanbase and think we're much like them. The very idea makes me a little queasy.
Thanks though, for telling me what a true Michigan fan should do.
that Hoke is a good coach and Mattison, too, I think your post fails to consider that unlike Hoke, Meyer's won 2 national championships as a head coach. And he had better success at mid-major type schools than Hoke, did, too. He single handedly put Bowling Green on the map and then made Utah a top 10 team that went to BCS bowl games.
The past is the past, and who knows who'll turn out to be the better coach from here on out, that's what makes this rivalry great. But if Michigan fans think that Hoke has the coaching advantage here then you're kidding yourselves. Meyer is a HOF coach.
My post fails to consider a great many things. It's only two paragraphs.
While two national championships are a sign of a great coach, not having won them (yet) doesn't make you a coach of less calibur. The Urban Meyer with two MNCs was once an Urban Meyer with none.
So, the good news is the Wolverines are bringing in a good class; the bad news is that they can never do any worse than this good class if they expect to stay with the Buckeyes year after year.
outrecruited Tressel from 2001-2007 and that didn't really seem to matter.
thats correct... and Tressel won with 2 stars like Troy Smith and AJ Hawk.
Meyer will this time will have the higher rated classes, but they'll burn him out of OSU because the spread is cancer to both the Michigan and OSU families.
Hawk: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ohiostate/football/recruiting/player-A.J.-Hawk-4... (Had a Penn State, offer, too ...)
Smith: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ohiostate/football/recruiting/player-Troy-Smith-... (twice as many as you claimed ...)
You're correct, but I think the other guy was just saying AJ Hawk and Troy Smith were the two "stars" on OSU's team under Tressel. Not that they were rated two stars coming out of HS. I think he was trying to say the rest of the team was nothing special. I have no idea if that was the case.
think you are giving him way too much credit. Plus OSU had a lot of other star players those years. That class alone had Clarett, S. Holmes, Carpenter, Mangold and more.
I don't think we outrecruited Ohio in any meaningful way. Both teams (on paper, at least), signed a ton of talent those years.
You forgot the '/s', right?
I just have to laugh at the idea that a top 5 class is the only way to stick with OSU. There's something called coaching and player development. I'm not too worried about it anyways, because I don't expect Hoke to bring in many classes outside of the top 10. This staff is hungry and energetic and kids love that.
If recruiting were all that mattered, Ron Zook would be highly resepected employed coach somewhere.
they were talking to you, not me
I found it interesting that they seemed to imply that OSU did NOT have garner top 5 classes to be competitive with us but we must get elite recruits to be competitive with them. Not quite sure how they arrived at that conclusion unless they feel Meyer and his elite coaching taskforce is exponentially stronger than ours.
I guess somebody forgot to tell him that the dude who used to coach Meyer's defense is now on the other side of the field.
I think they are saying that Ohio State has consistenly been recruiting top 5 classes for a while now, while we have not.
Also, I really don't think these kids are being exploited. If anything, the hoopla surrounding recruting is largely of their own creation. The cyrptic tweets, double-edged Facebook posts, the infamous hat picking ceremony - who do you think comes up with these ideas? If a recruit took his visits without saying a word about how they went, never granted any interviews before NSD, and just showed up to camp one day there wouldn't be these ecosystem of news around him. Of course, that would defeat the purpose of building up an NFL/ESPN-ready public image.
Meyer's success at Florida (recruiting and otherwise) get him every benefit of the doubt with reporters.
It's just presumed that he will recruit very well and win. Unfortunately, not much to do except point it out at this point, and hope he doesn't win.
I feel like what they're saying is they expect Ohio State to continue to get top class athletes and we're going to have to do the same to compete. While I agree that it would help to get those type of athletes, I think we will have better player development than them and be able to compete with them as a result.
Again, this implies that OSU coaching and player development is inferior to Michigan's. Meyer's won 2 NCs. Hoke 0. Meyer also had better success as the HC of mid-major teams than Hoke. And as far as player development, he turned a short dude out of Utah into the #1 overall pick (Alex Smith) and turned Tebow into a nationwide phenomenon. Take your blinders off.
Meyer has developed two quarterbacks who still can't throw. That is frightening.
Yep. And he still won two national championships! Now imagine what he can do with Braxton Miller, who can throw! Thanks for pointing that out.
You're right that Braxton can throw, but mostly to the opposing team or 5 feet in front of his receivers.
I think the article captures the feelings of all College Football fans. I'm not sure it was any more about the maize and blue than it is about the scarlet and gray.
Part of the fun is watching a player get recruited and seeing him develop.
It's the off season fergodsakes! How else am I going to get my College Football fix?
Totally agree, but I don't follow other boards, especially during recruiting. I just thought he did a good job of capturing the bipolarity of fanbases during recruiting and the unpredictability of how any given recruit is going to pan out.
they are talking about us as fans closely watching recruiting and not about us as UM.
While i agree stars aren't a good indicator of a kids performance, coaching makes the difference. With that said, i wholly disagree with the notion that class rankings do not matter. Not that its been brought up, but in general a solid class every year does nothing but improve our odds of landing more and more talented kids year in year out. Its a good feeling when we beat ohio in any area so when we haul in a better class then them or any rival its a great accomplishment which speaks volumes about our coaching staff. Weather those kids perform or not.
I thought this statement was very insightful: "Pessimism is for the season. The offseason is a time of hope."
We're all gonna be National Champions, until the season starts.
I think Mark Hollis is praying that the MSU fanbase is did not read this line
"We care very much about our college football teams and we have absolutely zero control over their success."
or there goes his budget for building his "national" program.
In general, I thought the artical read pretty true to most fanbases.
1. Watch HS junior highlight video—OMG, this kid is awesome, we have to offer him
2. TomVH/Sam Webb/Ace interview shows he likes us—kid's got his head on straight.
3. Hoke makes offer; recruit says we're in top three, wears UM hat at combine—I love this kid.
4. Recruit says academics "very important" and he doesn't expect anything to be given to him—he's a true Michigan Man, Bo would have loved him, I'll name my firstborn after him.
5. Recruit chooses rival school—kid's a goddamn punk, liar, obviously taking money on the side, hope his career sucks and he ends up in prison.
I think #5 happens a lot less here than at other boards. I don't read ESPN, Mlive, Scout or the others. I'm usually quite pleased with our collective reactions to commitments. the first 4 though are spot on.
Stanford is our rival?
Both Stanford and UM have offered high-profile kids like Garnett, Kyle Murphy, and Aziz Shittu, and there are probably other kids as well. Which means yes, Stanford is one of our rivals on the recruiting trail.
If that's your only criterion, then virtually every school in the country is our rival on the recruiting trail.
Arizona State just got a kid that we offered, but I wouldn't call them our rival. Oregon State got Malik Gilmore, Baylor got Javonte Magee, UCLA got Ellis McCarthy, etc. The Cardinal have pulled in one or two kids we've offered - and that's it - over each of the past few years, so you're using "rival" in very loose terms.
Stanford is a more significant rival for us in recruiting than ASU or Baylor or Oregon State because of our respective academic reputations. There are very, very few major programs in the country whose academic credentials equal or exceed ours, and Stanford is one of them. Whenever we're going after the same kid—as in Garnett—the Michigan fan base seems to be extremely conscious of our respective reputations, as do the recruits themselves.
Stanford isn't nearly the recruiting rival for us that OSU or MSU or ND are, but I never said they were in my orig. comment... but I disagree that they're not one of the more meaningful rivals we have from elsewhere in the country, because of who we are as an educational institution.
Joe Bolden, Kyle Kalis, Erik Magnuson, Mario Ojemudia, Jarrod Wilson, Tom Strobel, Brennen Beyer, Chris Bryant, and Blake Countess are just some of the guys who had Stanford offers and chose Michigan over the Cardinal in the past two recruiting classes.
Stanford got Garnett, Nick Davidson, Remound Wright, and Wayne Lyons.
Essentially this is an article about recruiting that says there are too many articles about recruiting. I suppose everyone thinks theirs is the best article. No harm. Just toss it on the pile and move on.
with the article - saying that we'll need to get great recruits to "keep up with Ohio" as if to imply they're an obviously superior team.
First of all, we lost to Ohio this last decade when they were cheating. Before that, we had a leg up in the rivarly until sweatvest and his antics came into Columbus. On an even playing field, good overcomes evil - I have a feeling the 90's are making a comeback and I'm ready for some Nirvana, Pearl Jam and some Beastie Boys.
and it was a joke - no denying that. They really screwed the pooch in 2001.
But, subsequently after that - Tressel cheated. I'm sure this has been covered 1000 times on the blog, BUT - here's my quick take without getting too long winded.
OSU can offer things other places can't, cars cheap, selling jerseys, etc. This is inticing to recruits. To say it didn't help the talent on the field is BS, IMO - as better recruits = better raw talent. Never said Tressel wasn't a good coach, he was and still is a really good coach. But, to me - the end result was the same. IMO, if we get Pryor RR is probably still the coach (doubt this would be a good thing, but I bet our streak of bowl games doesn't end in 2008).
Not making excuses for Carr, just saying the playing field was not level during the last 7-8 years.
What makes you think they still won't cheat? We will need top 5 classes to keep up with that.
We're delusional if we think this article is about us. Every fan base acts this way. We are actually among the most grown up about it.
Sometimes it ain't about you.
I wasn't being literal, but maybe my post didn't convey that. The article is funny because it's true, and I recognized the irony in it, and I've seen some of those exact sentiments here. Not a criticism, just an observation.