Are some recruited players now damaged goods?
In the wake of "Pitinogate", several players have decommitted from the schools involved (Louisville & Auburn are the ones that I have heard of). I have been wondering what lies ahead for these players.
Since this investigation is ongoing and will be for who knows how long, will other schools pursue them not knowing whether these young men had been "bought and paid" for when they committed to these schools? Who wants to take that chance? You run the risk of using a scholorship on a player that might be declared ineligible if they are tied to this scandel.
On the other hand, if they aren't involved, but other schools aren't willing to risk giving them a scholorship, they could be left in the cold after not having done anything wrong.
What a mess.
Thoughts?
Edit: Another thought. I we are talking about the "one and done" players (which seems logical for the most part) the players could decommit, head to Europe for a year, and return for the draft. I suspect, though, that many of these young men (top 100ish) would be affected the most.
September 28th, 2017 at 7:43 AM ^
There are schools that are shaking in their Jordans right now. There are also players who know what they did and were involved in that are in the same boat. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg at this point. At the end, the players will still be in better shape because there is always a team that will take them.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:01 AM ^
September 28th, 2017 at 8:09 AM ^
Yep. Now he can join The Hugh Freeze "Family Man" Club.
September 28th, 2017 at 7:43 AM ^
The issue is whether the NCAA will let them play or whether they'll have to go to Europe/China/ etc.
The whole thing is a mess and I have a feeling we're just getting warmed up.
September 28th, 2017 at 9:08 AM ^
the house of cards that is college athletics is going to fall down. It is a massive towering mountain built on a very brittle foundation. The only reason it is still standing is because there has been a long standing "gentlemen's agreement" between the entities that run it, and the people charged with overseeing it. The fact that this is not an NCAA investigation, but essentially a federal criminal investigation of the NCAA and the practices of the schools within tells me that this is a different kind of beast.
Every time a story like this breaks, I wonder whether this is going to be what ultimately opens up the can of worms that cannot be closed again. The landscape of college athletics needs to be cleaned up, of this there can be no question. The thing is, as a huge fan of college athletics, I have some trepidation as to what exactly is going to remain of it when "the big one" comes.
September 28th, 2017 at 9:18 AM ^
Unfortunately, greed and corruption are pretty darn solid foundations.
September 28th, 2017 at 7:48 AM ^
But there are lower tier schools or schools with enough to scholarships this year that SOME are willing to take the risk. Plus investigations go so slowly, it's possible some of these kids could play for a year before information leaked out and they became ineligible.
Remember that basketball has only 5 players on the court at a time for each team. Landing one monster recruit could provide a major boost to a program. Whereas in football, with the exception of maybe an awesome QB or something, you really need to start landing 3-4 amazing recruits before it impacts the roster much.
I could easily see a middling power 5 school or a mid major school taking a gamble on a kid.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:04 AM ^
College Basketball will be 1000 times better if they can clean it up. Imagine if the top 20 kids were somewhat evenly distributed instead of being paid to go to Kentucky, NC, Louisville, Duke, etc. Imagine 20 teams that have to build chemistry with that one all-star (Michigan with a healthy McGary).
September 28th, 2017 at 7:51 AM ^
*Pitino(gate)
-- But he's not going to be the only one when this is all done. This is big.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:03 AM ^
Yes it is big and will get bigger. But in saying that i beleive that Louisville will get the brunt of the punishment even though IMO they are not even close to being the worst offenders. Nobody will convince me otherwise that KY, Duke, & Kansas hands are just as or if not more dirty than Louisville.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:25 AM ^
Absolutely agree. Don't forget Sean Miller, the Thad Matta disciple, who gets a consistent stream of 5 stars and now we know his secret. Book Richardson has been at Miller's side for 13 years honing his craft.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:35 AM ^
And don't forget Archie Miller... remember his commitment blizzard after getting to Indiana?
I mean, this is just how college basketball is done. I guess some people are shocked by the magnitude of it. But anybody who knows college basketball knows that this has been going on. It's been that way for decades.
The only surprise here is that some people are actually getting punished for it, NOT that it occurs.
And I doubt it will really change, just get quieter. If the prosecutors really take down all the programs that are dirty in this sense, there will be nothing like the NCAA D1 basketball program left.
I don't feel sorry for these coaches and players one bit, but I would support - have supported forever - a free market where colleges have the liberty to run their team however they damn well please.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:51 AM ^
Depends what happens. If the investigation doesn't go anywhere (stops at Louisville) or multiple programs only get a slap on the wrist, you're right, it will go back to business as usual (or something close to it) quickly.
If multiple programs get the kind of treatment M got after Ed Martin, the way business is done will undergo major changes, those schools will clean up their acts, at least for a while. Eventually they'll invent ways of having the appearance of clean procedures while essentially doing the same business.
I'm skeptical this will go very far, even though the rot is pervasive. Someone has an ax to grind with Louisville and they'll get crucified as a token gesture. College ball is too big a business for this to go as far as it needs to.
September 28th, 2017 at 9:13 AM ^
because it is "big business" does not mean that this will not go far. What the FBI is investigating is essentially large scale white collar crime involving potentially millions of dollars. They would not be essentially raiding EYBL unless this was the real thing. I think there are some coaches that are worried less about their job right now and worried more about a federal indictment.
September 28th, 2017 at 1:57 PM ^
September 28th, 2017 at 2:03 PM ^
I see how this is against NCAA rules, but where is it a federal crime? Not being snarky, I just would like to know.
September 28th, 2017 at 10:03 AM ^
I share your skepticism.
September 29th, 2017 at 8:24 AM ^
There is a simple way to curb almost all of these activities in all sports. Why not make it mandatory for anyone wanting to participate in any professional sport must first obtain a bachelor's degree from a recognized university. Almost all upper tier positions require a degree, why not require it from people who are going to be making millions more than all of them. This would effect B.B. the most and would force some millionaires to be at least somewhat literate.
September 29th, 2017 at 8:44 AM ^
A simpler, kinder, fairer way is to recognize a person's right to contract. If two people want to sign a contract - say, an 18-year-old kid and the GM of an NBA team - that's their right. Anyone infringing on that right is a busybody know-it-all who thinks that he is so super, so smart, that everyone else should be forced to live how he tells them to.
I could list a million reasons not to force people to get bachelor's degrees to play basketball. A million unintended consequences. But that's way too far from the topic on this board; just look up, for example, eyebrow-threading licensure laws in Louisiana to see what happens when you require people to get unnecessary education in order to work in a field.
September 28th, 2017 at 9:41 AM ^
Realistically Louisville should get the death penalty for at least a year. Anything else would be an absolute joke at this point.
Also reports are coming out that Coach-2 in the FBI report is Rick Pitino. Both WSJ and CBS are confirming it, fyi.
September 28th, 2017 at 12:34 PM ^
as they are likely the easiest and most blatant of targets. My own hypothesis is that the firs round of arrests are focused on iron-clad cases and subjects where the FBI feels they have adequate leverage to get the birds singing. That last step being supportive to bigger fish. No law enforcement agency is going to do surveillance and develop a case for years, just to nab a Pitino/Louisville. In the 'worst-case' scenarios playing in the area of 'I wonder', I wonder if this reaches into the refs, into the NBA, USA Basketball, and even the Olympic team that uses the token collegiate player.
One thing is certain - canaries will sing, and bigger fish will be swept up. If this turns out as big as is implied, there will be vast changes in amateur athletics in the years ahead.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:15 AM ^
Pitino(gate) may be the biggest scandal since Watergate(gate).
September 28th, 2017 at 9:20 AM ^
Still makes me mad/sad this was called a foul. Maybe those refs were being paid by Rick too...
September 28th, 2017 at 9:38 AM ^
such a beautifully timed, athletic play. & I love that the scoreboard in the background is flashing michigan.
*sigh*
September 28th, 2017 at 8:11 AM ^
to be outraged over a poor kid who takes money, probably more than his family has ever had at one time, in order to play for a certain school. That's the least concerning aspect of this entire story.
So yeah, these kids are super talented and I'm sure that they'll land on their feet, especially if they didn't accept any cash. And even those that did will probably be fine in the long run.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:21 AM ^
the inability to follow simple rules? Isn't that the gripe with most marijuana suspensions...especially for college players? A lot of people don't care if the players smoke weed, they care that 1. they can't light up without getting caught, and 2. that they can't follow the rules long enough to stay out of trouble. Being Michigan fans, paying players would be in our best interests as M can outpay 97% of the schools out there...however at some point there are rules that can't be justified or excused because of circumstance, and you'd like to know that the players can at least follow SOME of them.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:33 AM ^
that under certain circumstances it's unreasonable to expect a 17 year old kid to turn down a 50k or 100k cash payment. Hell, I'm a reasonably successful 40 year old man, and I'd have to talk myself out of taking a bribe like that, especially if it was for something that didn't cause any harm.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:49 AM ^
September 28th, 2017 at 9:12 AM ^
September 28th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^
Half the people sitting in prison in this country are there for victimless crimes.
Who was harmed?
September 28th, 2017 at 10:05 AM ^
Preach.
September 28th, 2017 at 10:13 AM ^
agree with you that there are many crimes that do not have a "victim certain," and I don't even think there needs to be harm for something to be a bribe (although there would by definition seem to be some degree of injustice involved), but I think it you look hard enough at this situation as well as most crimes you can find harm even without a specific victim.
And in this situation, if you believe that the kids involved could not realistically be expected to turn down dirty money due primarily to immaturity, could it not be argued that the kids themselves are the victims?
September 28th, 2017 at 10:35 AM ^
the victims here. I'll bet some of them didn't even know the details about what was happening.
Mom (who can now easily pay the rent for the first time ever) says to go to Louisville, which is a great basketball school anyway. Once at school, coach (who has taken a bribe from Adidas) says use this financial advisor (scumbag/criminal), he's helped a lot of our guys. And when you go pro, sign with Adidas, who's going to pay you a shit ton of money to wear their shoes.
September 28th, 2017 at 10:51 AM ^
because they are not allowed to capitalize above board on their fame during the fleeting moment they have it.
September 28th, 2017 at 2:20 PM ^
has his price.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:11 AM ^
would require actual leadership from the NCAA, and you know that's not going to happen. Chances are that players and schools are left to fend for themselves since that is the path of least resistance. No matter who you think is mostly to blame: coach, player, executive, most of these players still deserve a shot to play. It will be interesting to see the working relationship between the NCAA and FBI. Given the NCAA's past, I'm inclined to think that the FBI will come in with guns blazing and leave the NCAA to pick up the pieces.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:11 AM ^
Or no guaranteed money as a 19+ year old. Yes, it is easy to consider these kids damaged goods, but it is also very understandle and the fault of those in power to corrupt IMO.
September 28th, 2017 at 8:31 AM ^
If a player has the taint of the great recruiting scandal of 2017, and an equivalent player doesn't have that taint, I'm going with the one who doesn't have a record of accepting under-the-table benefits.
First, why take on that baggage if you can get equivalent service from a player without that baggage? Second, it may be that the fact that the player was not doing things "the right way" would be a signal to a coach like JB that this kid might not fit into the culture he's trying to build. Third, it may be a signal (depending on who gets the payoff) that the player's family is either bad news or trouble. I recall that some coaches made it clear to Cam Newton's dad that they were not making contributions to his "church" to garner his support of getting Newton to attend their school.
None of this is to condemn any kid that gets wrapped up in this. But why take all this on if you can get a roughly equivalent kid not embroiled in the scandal?
September 28th, 2017 at 8:37 AM ^
September 28th, 2017 at 9:15 AM ^
September 28th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^
that a kid taking money to go to a certain school was likely getting some form of payment while playing at the high school level, be it through AAU, or other means. My guess is many of those top players have been getting something for so long, it's 'normal' to them.
September 29th, 2017 at 1:42 AM ^
It's true, folks can say whatever they want and flex their morality muscle but, truth is unless you are in a situation you NEVER know how you'll react. We've all balked at sometime when we wished we hadn't in hindsight. If someone offered me 100k to steer my son to a school, he'd be enrolled tomor.... too late I enrolled him.
I have a bigger problem with schools suggesting shoe companys and finiacial advisors. How many athletes lost their money being robbed by agents and advisors? Where would Allen Iverson be without his Nike deal?
September 29th, 2017 at 1:43 AM ^
If they prove kids and families took 6 figure sums of tax free gift money, the Feds are going to want their cut. I'm just trying to picture where these "poor" families are gonna get the money to pay the taxes. I hope someone paid attention to those 3 am infomercials on how to lower your tax debt
September 28th, 2017 at 8:23 AM ^
September 28th, 2017 at 8:38 AM ^
Impermissible benefits are quite often from agents or would be agents. There's a lot of precedent on how the NCAA handles that.
As far as schools breaking the rules in recruiting certain players, there is precedent for those players being immediately eligible elsewhere. But those were cases of schools breaking rules, not the player taking money from them.
September 28th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^