Yeah, I'm not sure Hagerup was the difference. Pretty sure RR knew that. Unless he was planning on unleashing him at safety.
landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
Yeah, I'm not sure Hagerup was the difference. Pretty sure RR knew that. Unless he was planning on unleashing him at safety.
Maybe in a way he could've helped. That ensuing drive after they returned the kick for the TD was, I believe, the tipping point in the game. We had that 20 yard pass to Stonum called back because Jeremy Jackson was still moving at the snap, then we stalled, then had to punt and only punted it to our own 35, which of course lead to another OSU TD. Would Hagerup have punted better than that? Probably, at least giving OSU a much longer field than 35 yds. Would it have made a difference in the game? You never know. Pryor could've thrown a pick, something, because of the longer field. But, whatever. Just pointing out that it could've possibly had a significant impact.
It didn't matter. We were bad today.
...that first 18 yard punt was a KILLER. Argh. Still, kudos to RR for doing the right thing.
Rules are rules. No exceptions.
Was a big momentum shift in the game, so I would say it did matter.
Also, RR didn't know that it wouldn't matter when he suspended him.
We're not good enough to blame it just on the punter. Or hell the punter at all.
True, but the point stands. RR didn't know how the game would unfold when he suspended the punter and RR deserves credit for doing the right thing when his career is on the line.
I I'm giving him points for doing what should be done, but not extra points. Suspending your freshman punter is inconsequential when your team is so out matched. RR did what he should do. With how bad this team is, i'm not going to be patting him on the back for doing exactly what he should be doing. This game was terrible. There are no small consolation prizes.
Probably should have had Tate do more punts or quick kicks instead of Broek...
For applauding our coach, on this day. Ballsy.
This is what our program has become. Applauding the coach for suspending the punter after getting blowing out by Ohio State. I wish I was old enough to experience Michigan football under Bo.
I'm with you. I thought it took courage for Rich to suspend him and even more courage for you to salute him for it.
BTW - the news that Haggerup was out today was reported on Mgoblog first waaaaay before anyone had it. This board is amazing.
Though I would humbly say that my job isn't on the line for pointing out RR's good deeds.
But your points sure are.
I honestly don't know how I accumulate most of my points, and that's fine by me. I just try to present my opinion honestly and respectfully, and try to contribute something to the discussion. If people want to neg me for that, that's their choice. It's a free country (until the Communists are in charge).
He needs to be here one more year. We are a sophomore team, the top teams in the big 10 Wisconsin and OSU, MSU and Iowa are all senior teams. Wisonsin loses 24 seniors this year. Our defense has improved during this year our offense of course has improved much from last year. We will be strong next year. I have been an avid fan since the 1970's I myself used to complain about our vanilla offense (so did a lot of long time fans when we would get close but never win the big one, the complaint was no vision in the offense). Well we went in the complete opposite direction with the spread, and if the people who hired RR didn't realize it would take 3-4 hard years at best to convert then that is a problem. The team will be fine next year, I think RR will be back and should, I think he IS successful thi syear when you look at all the shit people have thrown at him since he left WVU. He got here and really hasn't been fully supported from the beginning, I have lived long enough to know, no boss gets the job done with so many people going against him. He finally has the team on his side and still has to deal with the media and some fans.
This is a very well written post.
Same kind of integrity that kept Denard out against Illinois when he was showing concussion symptoms.
The problem is you only get to beat the integrity drum when you win, because anyone can do things the right way and lose.
Completely agree - and it cost us in the game. Stand-up move by RR.
Try that sentence again, slower. Reading comprehension is fun!
[ETA: The post I was responding to was deleted, making it seem as though I'm responding to the preceding post. Not the case]
but that didn't cost us the game. Nobody is (or should) criticize RR's integrity, concern for his players, or the importance he places on education/ discipline. Period.
He has always made the right call regarding players and has always made admirable decisions.
and it cost us in the game
of poor records and the 10 years prior to those 10 years wasn't that good either. BO came in and created the success that we are all used to now. We need to be patient with RR right now because 2 things- 1) the team is getting better each week and is VERY YOUNG and 2) if they change him out now there will be another 3 years of poor seasons with lost recruiting, new coaches and possibly schemes. He needs one more year and I think he gets it. I think with a bowl win they finish 8-5 this year and next year 10-3. Improvement every year.
the team is getting better each week
If only this were true.
If only your posting improved as well, you have had a Tom Hagan type 2nd half of posting:)
Dude, that's one harsh indictment there.
I like how neither of you even bothered to debate the objection I raised. Sorry folks, but we've passed the point at which it makes sense to blindly believe in this staff.
I'm sorry, but I'm sick of platitudes like "the team is getting better each week." No, it's not. The last two years the team started off strong, and looked worse as the year went on. In what way has our offense "gotten better" over the last seven games than it was in the first five games? Our special teams? Our defense?
There's an argument for Rich Rodriguez, but the team's week-to-week improvement ain't it.
There's no question that the team regressed later in the season, but if you're looking for week-to-week improvement, that's not the nature of college football. Programs improve/decline over years, not weeks, and progress will be defined not by whether we got better between playing two top 10 teams, but whether the program is better off now than it was in 2009, and will it continue to get better in 2011.
You say regression...I say better competition.
As an aside, god damned UConn will be paying in the Fiesta Bowl if they win next week...so apparently we were beating BCS teams to start the season...
Programs improve/decline over years
Uhhhhh, except for Michigan's 40/32 year consecutive winning seasons/bowl streak.
progress will be defined not by whether we got better between playing two top 10 teams,
I'm sorry but that's complete baloney. Progress is measured by beating up on Delaware State and Blowling Green from year to year but getting blown out by tUoOS, for example? Uhhhhh, top 10 teams *DO* matter... that's where Rose Bowl trips are earned. That's where championships are won.
"What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Michigan was not dominant before Bo got here, but the '68 team was 8-2 and the '64 team was probably one play away from a national championship. Michigan's only loss that year was to Bob Griese's Purdue team, 21-20. Bob Timberlake tried a two-point conversion for the win and was stopped. If he makes that play, Michigan finishes unbeaten and caps the season with a 34-7 Rose Bowl victory.
If we're going to go the history route, it may be relevant to note that today Rodriguez became the first Michigan coach to lose three straight at the same time to OSU and MSU.
There were some very bad years (like 1962) but Bump Elliott won the Rose Bowl in the 1964-65 season and went 8-2 in 1968. All of the players on Bo's first team at Michigan in 1969 were Elliott's recruits, too. Freshman weren't eligible to play, so none of Bo's recruits saw the field until 1970.
The 1968 team hardly sucked. It had a record of 8-2, came in second in the Big Ten. Ended up ranked 12th in the AP, and 15th in the coaches (UPI) poll. See http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/football/fbteam/1968fbt.htmThere were a lot of reasons why Bump Elliott stepped down as coach, though he was not forced out of the position. The 50-14 loss to Ohio State was no doubt one of the reasons he chose not to stay on as head coash. He was offered the Associate Athletic Director position by Don Canham and took it for a couple of years. Bo and the whole team acknowledged him following the 1969 win over OSU by giving him the game ball. The guy was well-liked, and was not forced out, let alone because he had fielded a poor team in 1968.
Rodriguez has totally changed my ignorant perception of him as a greasy slickster through his actions. Though I have little pride in the product on the field, I am proud that Rodriguez has had the guts and integrity to make these kinds of decisions.
about where your original ["ignorant"] perception came from.
I don't think that I'd be so hard on you, calling you "ignorant." "Misinformed" is not quite the same thing as "ignorant." So where did that come from? Would you say that it was an accumulation of things? The way that the buyout litigation was covered, including rumors from West Virginia? Boren and "family values"? The NCAA saga? The innumerable other little things, each getting repeated in the echo-chamber of sportstalk radio, where everybody is reading the same newpapers and listening to the same guys?
probably more accurate. It started with me before he took the job. His patented offense and flirtation with the Alabama job in 06 gave him a huckster reputation nationally, and I bought in. His recruitment of Pryor and messy exit from WV didn't help things at the beginning. My opinion of the man has changed a lot since he took the job, not coincidentally as my dependence for information shifted to the blogosphere. His actions, when allowed to shine through the clouded media picture, have proven him to be a good, principled man. After these three years I see a guy with good intentions for the program and the kids, and anybody who still clings to the used-car-salesman image that I did those years ago is indeed badly misinformed.
I agree - it was a classy move. That said, I'd expect it from any Michigan coach.
Rodriquez did what he had to do, I'm glad he did but he was meeting expectations, not exceeding them with the move.
Clap Clap Clap.
Seriously it takes a man with a lot of integrity to not take a starter especially when playing OSU.
I applaud you for continuing to post statistical projections. They're really useful.
Hopefully Denard's dislocated fingers are serviceable by the bowl game.
I'm sure Mark Dantonio would make the same decision aren't you?
and then that would absolutely, positively, be it.
and this is not a knock at the OP for the post. If you truly possess it, you don't really need any affirmation of it. Integrity is not something one does for someone else.
Under normal circumstances, I would agree with you, but these are not normal circumstances. As we all know, Rich Rodriguez has been the subject of an enormous amount of bad press alleging a lack of integrity and an unwarranted reputation of being a "win at all costs" coach. It is not a bad thing to highlight incidences such as suspension of a key player whose talent would have made a difference (in punting, not necessarily the outcome) under these circumstances, when the press has been less than balanced about RR and the decisions of other coaches.
I am still sick after the game this afternoon but the way Rich Rod handles these situations is commendable. He knew the back up punter situation and still took the high road. This is a plus in my opinion.
I wish I'd seen this thread before commenting on another thread about the pride in Wolvering integrity I felt while suffering through the 18-yard punt.
Heard that today and immediately thought of some other coaches in the B10 and what they would do in that situation. Would they do as RR did, or not?
Paterno - Yes
Tressel - Yes(Even though I dislike tOSU and the players, I respect Tressel)
Ferentz - Yes
Fitz - Yes
Lynch - Maybe, but I don't know enough about him to state either way really.
Now the jagoffs
Hope - Nope
Beilema - Nope
Zook - Don't think so
Dantonio - Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I don't think he knows what integrity even means.
I haven't listed Minny's coach since I know even less about him than I do Lynch.
Actually, if I remember right, Tress gave AJ Trepasso two passes when he got in trouble with the law (or it might have been academics...)
Tress also suspended our/his starting QB the Monday before the 2001 Michigan game.
...and on two separate occasions didn't give so much as a wagged finger at players arrested for DUIs, the same thing the quarterback got nailed for. Bellisari was publicly feuding with the new coaching staff when he got his, and Krenzel was already pushing him out at that point. Fan reaction was generally "we're better with the sophomore than Mr. I.N.T."
It was my understanding that Tress is pretty much universally regarded as being on the low end of the integrity scale (caveat: "...for the Big Ten"). Pimp cars on loan from local dealerships, tutors taking tests for kids... I mean, this is coming from a rival fan of course so take it with a big blue bias disclaimer, but Tressel as a model of collegiate class seems laughable on any measure.
I don't know what to think about The Vest anymore... he definitely called off the dogs today. If Tressel were Beliema, we would have lost by 60 and Wisky would be going for two like they did against Minny. Dare I say The Vest throttled back today out of respect for the rivalry?
I think we are reaching to find anything good coach has done in a disgusting loss. I'm glad that our coach has integrity.....and yea thats about all I'm really glad for at this point. Go Blue.
this will never happen again.
There is a lot to like about Rich's program as far as the way these players conduct themselves and the way he has handled himself against relentless pressure. I have no doubt he is a good man.
This thread reminds me of a line from The Rock.
"Your best? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen!"
The only prom queens getting any tonight are in Columbus. You want to put RichRod on a white horse, go for it. As for me, I'll take a couple more W's. Actually, I will take one W against a good opponent. We had none this year and its getting real old real quick.
Ew. Columbus prom queens getting "some"
I agree wholeheartedly. And it did have a significant impact on the game. First, the TD KO return was caused in large part by a low, short kick -- not sure if Hagerup would have done better, but he's been handling KOs the last few weeks for a reason. As soon as he caught the ball on the 15 without a coverage guy in sight, you knew it was trouble. The shanked punt had a big impact as well. All in all, it provided a nice teaching moment for my son (who I had "suspended" during our backyard football game yesterday for, let's just say, unsportsmanlike conduct).
One of the reasons I love Michigan (in addition to being a brainwashed lifelong fan and alum) is that we do things the right way. And it gives me confidence that our AD will make what I believe to be the right decision in retaining RR. In many places (cough, East Lansing, cough), a coach might have felt the need to bow to the UNACCEPTABLE crowd in order to keep his job, or at the very least felt that his AD wouldn't care about the shoddy discipline so long as the product on the field was good. At Michigan, it's the opposite -- I believe the coach knows that letting a player play despite the rules violation would be a bigger black mark in the AD's book than the blowout loss.
If Hagerup broke team rules then I commend the discipline. My concern is that we do not have a good back up. Anything can happen to any player and we should have excellent back ups for all positions.