He who has never sinned.
and... i like them? I think I like them.
He who has never sinned.
Not trying to be snarky here, but I'm honestly curious why you are here. If you don't enjoy UFRs and anaylsis of players (and note: since we're not going to win every game 1000-0, there is going to be some critique of the players performance), I just feel like this would be a miserable place to be in general. If your larger point is that some criticism in the UFRs went too far (I think Obi Ezeh would be the main example of a player perhaps too harshly criticized for poor performance), that's possibly fair, but that's not what it seems you are insinuating.
I don't have a issue with the UFR's so much as what they allow, turning a football performance into a judgement of more than just that performance. Read through the comments on any given UFR and there are a ton of comments that I hope are not ever read by the players on the team.
Devin has a mental injury.
The O-line is terrible at their jobs and should be benched.
Obi Ezah is not smart enough to play linebacker.
Fitz isn't a good runner and should be benched.
I'm paraphrasing here, but this is taking Brian's personal opinion on the players performance way to far. I think most posters here would think twice about what they do say towards players if they said it in front of that player or Hoke.
Agree re locking the recruiting threads except maybe the hello posts. Too much downside. I think some of the posters made those comments as jokes about the weirdness of following such young kids without ill intent toward the kid. We saw one apology already. Those comments obviously did not reflect well on the fan base, but in fairness this blog covered recruits' games under a segment called creeper van originals, which was probably a little weird for the relevant parents and players.
If someone posted that stuff about me, I'd be like
" haha man thats some bull shit"
Because no high schooler wants to be compared to a 10 year old girl... like, DANG! Look at Caris LeVert.. THEY LOOK ALMOST THE SAME! The kid had braces and played in the final 4 last year... I mean, cmon man. If you knew he'd read it, you wouldn't have posted it. BUT:
5 seconds later i'd be like
and based on what he has said on twitter, that seems to be the case.
Nothing lost THIS TIME... be carefull tho, dont want to turn into "that fanbase" you know what I mean...
The inhabitants of this fair website have had a rough 10 days. Feels like we all could use the bye week along with the team.
To feature an interview with a kid that young. I know you guys are looking to add content and what teenage kid wouldn't want the attention, but I've never personally liked there being any focus on kids who are not even old enough to drive and when I saw how young the kid looked in the photo it reinforced my sentiment. I did not feel compelled enough by it to comment of course but I'm not surprised other posters did. I don't think that justifies attacking the kid but I'm ok with people asking if such attention is appropriate.
I made the decision a couple years to basically stop following recruiting. If a guy commits, I'll read about him, but I don't care who the uncommitted guys in the senior class are, let alone the juniors, sophomores, etc. Really, paying attention to all this crap is - at best - a huge waste of time, and at worst, something that feels like stalking. If we're debating whether or not a HS sophomore has posted an "old photo" because he may not look like a normal 15-year-old, that sounds like a cry for help.
With my son playing, it is interesting to figure out who "the guy" is in the upcoming games, and watch them play. The players like it, because they can say yeah I played so-and-so, etc. The parents like it because it shows the local HS programs are successful and at least some of the parents in the stands are going to be very lucky. The rest of us wish we were in their shoes.
You're fucking wrong on this, and I've never been so sure that you were wrong before. You're so wrong that I'm not sure you even read the thread.
I have to agree with this.
You know why he is not? It's HIS LIVELIHOOD! If he feels us idiots are jeopardizing that and potentially taking good out of his child's mouth, then fuck us. Me and you all too. It's about time people start being more respectful and it's sad that it came to this for us grown ups (a LOT of us are grown ups) to recognize this fact.
no one was being disrespectful toward the kid.
And his perception is the real issue here. You can't dismiss that for him, try as you might.
well, then we're at the mercy on the perceptions of 15 year olds in HS re: censoring our comments. that's ridiculous and exactly why this kind of content should be vetted a bit more carefully by those in charge
...when I first read this I was going to comment that being at the mercy of the perceptions of 15-year-olds isn't nearly as bad as being at the mercy of other people's perceptions of their perceptions.
Then I got distracted and forgot to actually post it, and said 15-year-old made my point better than I ever could have.
Point was probably lost on the people that needed to get it, though.
that is all.
is it my absolute pleasure.
it does not make him the sole arbiter or taste and decorum, even if its on his own blog.
His blog=his rules (standards, code of conduct, etc.)
Hopefully this starts a necessary dialogue about the role of third party sites (like this one) in recruiting.
If you wan't to talk about a kid after he commits, fine. But to actively search out and contact via social media (like this dude Brandon explains above, and I'm sure is standard in the industry) is quite frankly pretty disgusting. I understand these media types want to run a succesful enterprise - but at what price?
Not until December 23rd. I've got a good one for the feats of strength too.
Everyone seems to hate everybody as of late.
Woowee this thread is a firestorm. Gonna be a long bye week.
God, why am I asking this?
Can someone remind me what happened to moderation buttons again?
Brian said they disappeared with the server move and he spent a week trying to get them back, but because it's the season there are obviously more pressing issues. AFAIK it is on the agenda to come back.
Thanks. I had seen it mentioned, oh 1000 times, but I never really paid that much attention to it. I figured, based on some of the comments, that there might me a couple here willing to provide me with that info. I appreciate it.
a site update it "fell out" of the new version. Brian mentioned a couple of months ago he would try and fix it, although I'm assuming by now it's pretty low on the totem pole for things to get done during the season. I'd expect them to be back sometime after the season is over.
Original post was meant to be a reply and I screwed up - whoops.
But on topic, why cant we follow the rule my parents taught me. If you cant say something nice, dont say it. It goes with everyone on this board, since the self - moderating went away people have become a lot more smarky and I do not enjoy coming to the site as much as I have in the past. If I want to get treated like im an idiot by a bunch of jerks, ill go back to high school.
In regards to recruits age/height/weight/etc - its not the size of the boxer in the fight, its the size of the fight in the boxer. I hope he reconsiders because I would be happy to have him on our team.
It is sad that this had to be stated and sad that what seems like a cool kid felt any stress from the nonsense.
I hope that nobody would say mean spirited things in front of any kid. So don't be that way on the blog.
I've been busy for a few weeks so I'm trying to piece together what happened. Are we saying you are at risk of being banned if you insult a recruit (i.e. name calling, profanity, obscenities) or are we saying you are at risk of being banned if you are providing criticism of a recruit (i.e. pointing out a recruit said something immature or acted too boastful)? Or are we not distinguishing between the two?
I only ask because in the past I have called it like I see it, meaning if a kid says or does something that I think is pretty cool, like being mature, saying the right kinds of things, doing really great stuff like the Mone piece, etc. I will praise that. I have also shown some criticism for silly, egotistical, immature, etc. stuff when I saw that as well. I have never been disrespectful IMO, but I have shown criticism when I didn't like what a recruit said or did. Is that all the same or can I get a clarification?
Wow. It feels like every single one of those posts on that thread was linked to my one comment.
This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous and completely blown out of proportion, but that's why I love this blog.
I'd just like to point out that all the people name-dropped in Brian's post have very old (4+ years) accounts and have been supporting this blog for years, and not just with hits...
Doesn't matter to me though, I still love all of you guys!
I think it's funny that we all think this board has gone to hell because of the presence of posters who behave differently from us, yet we all have different ideas in mind about whose posts are good and whose posts aren't. I guess one man's douche bag is another man's friend? Nah, that sounds kind of gross.
This board is going to hell because of the extremely rapid increase of idiotic jerks who lash out at people and try to start flame wars all of the damn time.
Really, I have gotten into good, spirited debates on this board in the past that changed my perspective on topics. It wasn't always kittens and moonbeams, I know. Mr. Rager has been a long time member and Section 1 has become something of a modern myth. But nowadays, the amount of general douchebaggery, flaming, and borderline personal attacks on members, coaches and current/future players, as well as the increasing amount of "hurr durr im right ur wrong, bro" comments over the last few months has become staggering.
I'm not going to reply individually to everyone in this thread. In sum:
I don't care if you don't think it's offensive. The upside is zero--lame snark on a message board--and the downside is getting my ass reamed out by the department for stuff I didn't even post, and maybe a recruit thinking poorly of Michigan fans.
It was offputting. We have this direct from the recruit. If you think that's dumb, no one cares, because we want Michigan to win football games and your feelings can jump in a lake.
It was never my intent to remove user moderation. I have no idea how it happened with our server move, but it did, and I spent a week trying to put it back, and then it was the season and I had no time. I apologize for the jankiness and I am going to fix that as soon as I possibly can.
Maybe some of you should consider whether this is the community for you. This is not a free for all. There are places that are that. Immediate reactions in game threads are one thing, but persistently disrespectful interactions with other community members are on the upswing and I've about had it with the tone of many comment threads. Butterfield and chitown, I'm looking at you. All you do is get in fights. If all you post is how other people aren't living up to your standards, leave. There will be a benighted place for you somewhere in this crazy internet.
There is nothing wrong with asking a prospective recruit if he wants to give us an interview. Brandon is polite and desists whenever asked to. If you think contacting a kid on social media is not the point of social media I don't know what to tell you. Ridiculous to assert that talking to a kid for a recruiting article is immoral but the preps page of your local newspaper isn't, or that it's bad when Brandon does it but not when ESPN does.
Thank you, MGoBrewMom. I know that wasn't your intent but it is difficult to tell how things will be taken on the interent.
I'd say a complete stranger contacting a 16 year old boy on social media is not the point of social media.
It's probably more useful for that 16 year old boy to interact socially with, I don't know, his own peers, people he in fact knows or is familiar with.
Here's how this works.
1. Ask kid if he wants to be interviewed.
2. If he says yes, interview him.
3. Post what he says, say nice things about him.
If he does not say yes, the cost has been one email equivalent of his time. That's it. The kid either does or does not, and his life continues on exactly as it was before. If you find that "disgusting" so be it. I find that point of view ludicrous.
Now thankfully through high school who, although not division one football recruits, still had many demands on their time, I find your attitude about these concerns flippant. Taken as one request the time demands don't seem so bad. In a highly sought after recruit I'm sure it can be overwhelming. This doesn't even take into account that an adult is contacting my minor son potentially without my knowledge.
The barrage that these kids get from schools is bad enough, multiply it by the hunger for content from third party sites and it is ridiculous. Many kids love the attention-that doesn't make it any better. Kids love a lot of things that aren't necessarily in their best interest.
This will all continue and only get worse. I'm a realist. But have a kid or two of your own and get back to me on how ludicrous this point of view is.
Wonderful. They pretty much always know best. Let's just be part of the problem. Hey, it's content.
Small suggestion, but I think a legitimate one: maybe consider getting parents' consent before doing interviews. I have no problem with the HS recruiting industry in general and follow recruiting news closely. That said, were I a parent (I'm not), I would definitely want to be consulted before someone I didn't know asked to speak to my child and post the answers in a public forum. It's your site and you'll do what you want, but that's what I would do. Not trying to be a dick, just trying to be constructive.
I'm not trying to be a smartass, but it sounds like you have a personal issue with this, as in something may have happened to you or someone you know. If that is the case, I am truly sorry, but I can assure you that I use social media to cover football news and that is aIl.
I really am trying to understand why people think using social media to find out recruiting news is creepy because I honestly just can't see it. If someone has ill-intentions and uses social media to prey on young people, then yes, obviously that is disgusting and should be addressed any way that it can. What I, and every other person who covers recruiting, uses it for is harmless. The kids enjoy it and it only helps them gain recognition.
I just find it impossible to believe that if anyone had a 16 year old son, who was dominant in high school football and was getting regional or even national attention for it, that you as a parent wouldn't be ecstatic about it. I know I would be. How could you not be proud, happy, and excited for the potential opportunities for your child? They aren't being preyed on, they are being celebrated and given credit for the accomplishments they have achieved. At least that's how I see it.
I guess if you take away the fact that TALKING TO TALENTED, UP AND COMING HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL PLAYERS IS THIS MAN'S SOLE JOB AND THESE KIDS USE SOCIAL MEDIA AS THEIR PRIMARY FORM OF COMMUNICATION then, yeah, I guess I could see how it might be momentarily unsettling to the untrained eye.
btw, good job with the interview.
Firstly, that is horrible and I hope everything is okay now. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Second, I think that the risk would probably be lessened if parents and coaches take a more active role in what the kid is doing. Easier said than done, I know. There are players with parent(s) working two or three jobs just to support the family. Plus, kids aren't always the most cautious to begin with.
The only thing we really can do is just educate players, coaches and parents.
Very obviously, not a parent.
Although I think his attitude probably suggests he's not a parent, but I am a parent of two boys and I don't really disagree with his overall point. If my son was a high schooler who was a D1 recruit, I would expect this sort of thing to happen. I would try to keep an open dialogue with him about it and ask that he tells me about these interviews before they happen, and I would want to be a part of them. But I wouldn't fault the interviewer for doing it.
My thought process would be this: My son will be getting free college because he plays a sport people really care about. Also because people care a lot about it, people will be interested in him, which I cannot control as a parent. Thus, my son can take as much or as little time as he wants giving out interviews, as long as it's his time he's using.
I will also ask to be a part of these interviews. Is it possible, or even likely that he won't always tell me about them? Sure, but if that's the worst thing my kids hide from me, I'll be in good shape.
Otherwise this is a waste.
This is a strange situation. I don't disagree with anything you just said, as in I don't think it's wrong at face value.
But the whole issue is that the parent should have the right to opt out, or otherwise control access to their child for these purposes. It's as simple as requiring parental permission, and the whole problem is solved. There are more sides to this than I care to really get into, most has been covered here already. It's a "slippery slope" situation, and I think the industry in general, but more specifically this blog needs to proceed carefully. My issue with the way it's being handled here is the offhand dismissal of the concern of many, topped off with a very flippant attitude about the whole thing.
On the whole, I think the blog doing these type of interviews is fine. But get permission from the parents, problem solved.
I wouldn't be opposed to my son doing these type of interviews, as long as I know the situation. Just as you said, I would have that talk with my child, but kids don't always follow advice. I could see it getting out of control to the point of being a major distraction, then I worry about the general character development of any child in this situation. Kids get very full of themselves very easily, which can be a very bad thing.
I just think more attention is needed here, and management would do well to at the least pay lip service to their core audience when valid concerns are raised.
This is really what it boils down to. Print journalism ethics first begins with question why you must interview minors. Clearly in this case, because they are potential Michigan recruits. Secondly you determine if parental (or gaurdian) consent is needed. If you determine it is not, you should leave contact information with the minor so his parents can contact you if they later object to the interview being used. I'd say that is pretty standard.
So in this day and age, personally I strongly disagree with Brown's method of going from contact to publication. There is no reason why the initial contact could not also include "Also, I want to clear it with your parents, my email is firstname.lastname@example.org." Clearly of course the kid could set up a fake email and impersonate his parents, but at least there is more of an effort to be upfront and reach out to the parents there. Here of course we enter into a slippery slope in that how much due diligence Brown has to do. The core issue though is right now he is doing nothing.
At the end of the day, tweeting kids "Hello X, follow me back" seemingly out of the blue* and dropping interviews on 16 year olds strikes me as extremely low professional standards and I'll post negative comments about it. One of the first things you normally learn in the professional world is just because you are on social media, doesn't meant professional standards are thrown out.
Ultimately that is going to happen is Brown is going to run an article and some parent is going to be pissed the fuck off by it and when that happens, if Brian thought the AD was on his ass before, he's going to wake up and find the Athletic Department so far up his ass, Dominos is opening a branch in his colon.
*There also does seem to be an element of hypocrisy here, what did Kyle Kalis and Tuley-Tillman teach us? Don't tweet recruits. Yet now a business function of the blog is doing it via a personal twitter account and lacking any sort of formal letterhead...no thank you.