Apparently I have to say this: treat recruits with respect

Submitted by Brian on

Brandon posted an article about 2016 recruit Teryn Savage, and this is his takeaway from his experience at MGoBlog:

https://twitter.com/TerynSavage/status/382644691738451968

So congratulations, leftrare, MGoBrewMom, JuggernautRides, and chitownblue2, and the other people in that thread who insulted the kid for no reason. Guess what: people are interested to see what people say about them on the internet, and now a potential recruit doesn't want to talk to Brandon. 

If you think that 2016 is a magic land from which news cannot come, don't read it. We're going to report on kids that are being recruited. 

Going forward, anything that could be interpreted as an insult to a blameless high school kid will result in a no-warning ban. Even if that interpretation is crazy. Any "pedo" references will also result in a ban. 

In conclusion, guh.

MGoBoard

Yeoman

September 26th, 2013 at 5:51 PM ^

...but do you really want to go there? I know twitter's a semipublic medium but as far as I'm concerned that exchange is between Brian and Shoe. What happens on the blog is one thing; coming down on him for a political opinion expressed  in a private conversation elsewhere seems out of line.

I can pretty much guarantee that if you went through my private correspondence you'd find some politics that a lot of people here wouldn't like (you among them, maybe). I don't bring that stuff up here for a reason, and it has nothing to do with the no-politics rule.

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

Yeoman

September 26th, 2013 at 7:52 PM ^

for reminding me why I hate twitter.

And it's a fair comment. "Private" isn't the right category. But there are real issues here and everything that moves in the direction of the personal just makes it harder to grapple with the blog-related stuff. If we start tossing political grenades back and forth it's game over.

(And yes I know it's probably too late anyway.)

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

triangle_M

September 26th, 2013 at 11:12 PM ^

There's a ton of meltdown on both sides.  It is unfortunate to say the least.  I think descent into ideological attacks is . . .  a descent. The high ground for the blog is lost and it has turned into an unprofessional cult of personality.  Which, I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but it is what it is.

Joined: 03/09/2011

MGoPoints: 5648

bronxblue

September 25th, 2013 at 8:50 PM ^

Few things are more certain in life that devoted fans on the internet latching onto a mindset and wringing the frick out of it until their is literally nothing left.

I actually enjoy these meltdowns sometimes.  It's like a forest fire; you need it to clear out old growth so that new life can emerge.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171035

Brandon Brown

September 25th, 2013 at 6:41 PM ^

I'm working on a recruiting piece dealing with the 2015 QB prospects who could potentially get offers from Michigan so I contacted them via twitter to see how they're recruitment is going and see if Michigan is involved at all. That's all that shows. I didn't pester any of them, I asked each of them one time. If they don't want to follow me back they don't have to. Man guys, you are seriously making me rethink this opportunity (that I thought was awesome before all of this) that Brian gave me to be a part of an awesome website. I just wanted to bring info that I thought was expected, wanted, and enjoyed by the masses. This shit has really run it's course...

Joined: 10/15/2012

MGoPoints: 3732

Wolv1984

September 25th, 2013 at 6:53 PM ^

So you just scattergun all the Twitter handles of 2015 kids?  What's your success rate for getting follow backs that allow you to DM them and speak with them?  Getting a high response rate with just that one line seems unlikely and a low response rate means a low quality piece.

Joined: 06/09/2010

MGoPoints: 721

Brandon Brown

September 25th, 2013 at 7:08 PM ^

Every single one of those guys followed back and already gave me multiple quotes about their recruitment except for beneventi. It works, it's not creepy, I'm not dangerous, the kids are receptive, they are usually very excited to talk about something that they are very proud of, the parents and coaches I've contacted now text me, message me, and email me updates and pictures and info without me even asking. If I did anything the wrong way or without the kids best interest in mind, do you think I'd be successful to any degree with this? I mean seriously, every recruiting blog out there, including the big dogs like 247, ESPN, yahoo, and scout have reporters that communicate with these recruits on twitter and Facebook constantly. It's not an issue. It's how it's done and it's how social media is being used to revolutionize how information is sent and received in every arena of life. Sports, news, music, entertainment, politics, and anything else that you may be into is available on twitter instantly. If you think it's wrong I'm sorry. I don't think it's wrong because I know my own ethics, morals, and intentions. The recruits, parents, and coaches obviously don't think it's wrong either because they are choosing to participate in it. The beauty is that if you're not into it....you don't have to be!

Joined: 10/15/2012

MGoPoints: 3732

Wolv1984

September 25th, 2013 at 7:17 PM ^

Since everyone does it with Twitter, I trust you will have problem showing me this with links or screenshots of other names in the recruiting world doing this, because looking over TomVH and Sam Webb's Twitter, I see nothing at all that appears analgous to your method of contact.  I've gone back a month on each account without seeing it.

Joined: 06/09/2010

MGoPoints: 721

Brandon Brown

September 25th, 2013 at 7:22 PM ^

Why do you care so much? Why are you putting so much effort into that? Haha, I don't get it! Maybe it's not on Twitter specifically but obviously they reach out to them in some way. Do you think the recruits are sending out postcards to all of the reporters out there? I mean if it was an email as opposed to Twitter would that make you feel any different?

Joined: 10/15/2012

MGoPoints: 3732

Wolv1984

September 25th, 2013 at 7:31 PM ^

A number of things come to mind.  Yes, clearly you do not get it.  Page 7 has an excellent section featuring comments by people like Crime Reporter who clearly do get it and are actual journalists.  Perhaps that area might help you get it.  

Secondly, we have a favorite saying around here, about "Everyone murders people" from one Mr. Pryor.  Your attempts to defend your usage of Twitter, despite complaints about it showing a lack of professionalism and ethics does at times seem to tread in that direction, even more so when you cannot even offer up an example of a respected peer doing the same thing with social media.  

As others have said the fact you do it in such a copy and paste manner that reminds one of spam and you do not speak to the parents as part of your normal process does not sit well with myself and many others.  Say you were doing women's basketball, how would you reach out to a 16 year old AAA prospect?   

Joined: 06/09/2010

MGoPoints: 721

Shop Smart Sho…

September 25th, 2013 at 7:31 PM ^

When you started doing this, did you ask established guys how they were doing it?

As a teacher, doesn't your contract state that you are not to interact with students through social media?  While your job for MGoBlog isn't covered under that contract, don't you think that the schools have a good reason for preventing adults from interacting with kids on social media?

Do you know that schools have policies in place saying that you have to go through the school or parent before contacting a kid?  If that is the case at even a minority of schools, why not just do it for every kid?  I'm guessing most parents will be even happier that you included them from the very beginning.

Since you are a coach, wouldn't you prefer that your athletes not be contacted directly by a reporter as an initial contact?  Once the parents have said it is cool, that is obviously different.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9602

Brandon Brown

September 25th, 2013 at 7:42 PM ^

Yes I have had a lot of conversations with well-established guys. I had phone conversations with Shannon Terry and Pat Tholey from 247. I've talked to and still do occasionally with Allen Trieu. Sam Webb and I have chatted a few times on Facebook. Those guys came up and made a name for themselves long before I did and probably did it in a much different way because the methods have changed a lot over the past 20 years.

The teacher thing is a different story. My principal is well aware of my gig here at mgoblog, in fact he played college football and he and I talk about it all the time. He has never mentioned my contract to me once in regards to contacting recruits and he knows that what I do. I don't believe I am in any breach of my contract especially since the kids I am contacting are not my own students. Hopefully my answers are up to your standards, and I appreciate your concern for my well being.

As a coach, I think if a player of mine is getting exposure, the right way, I'm all for it. If it becomes overwhelming or the player wasn't interested, action would be taken. It's not really my place as a coach to say what he is or isn't allowed to do. The parents would have that power, but again if any parent or any kid ever told me that I wasn't welcome or was overstepping my bounds, that would be the end of it. Period. That has NEVER happened and I don't see it ever happening because of the way that I conduct myself, which I've now said multiple times.

Joined: 10/15/2012

MGoPoints: 3732

Shop Smart Sho…

September 25th, 2013 at 8:00 PM ^

Brandon, I feel like you are over-reacting to the concerns that some of us are raising.  Maybe that is because so much has been said about it in such a short matter of time.  So I'll try to explain my concerns.

I'm not concerned about your job as a teacher, I was simply using the no contact rule that is in most teacher contracts to make a point.  If a school doesn't think you should be contacting students as a teacher, wouldn't that give you pause when doing it outside of your duites as a teacher and with kids you don't know?

My commnent about the established guys was more about how they contact recruits initially.  Keep in mind that none of my concerns are about the method you use to continue having conversations with them once contact is initiated, but solely how you go about iniating the contact.

As for why I care so much, it is because I have a lot of respect for what this blog has stood for.  I've mentioned several times Brian's exchange at the Blogs With Balls conference, and how this whole recruiting thing seems to be going against that sentiment.  I would hate to see the blog diminished over something that is very easy to avoid.  

So I guess my ultimate question is this:  Why don't you just contact the parents first?  Getting their contact information, or leaving a message through the school doesn't seem like it would be a big deal.  Doing that one thing alleviates 99% of the concern that I and many others here have.  I would also think that the majority of parents would respect you for doing it.  It really does seem like a win/win.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9602

Shop Smart Sho…

September 25th, 2013 at 8:31 PM ^

Wow.  

Way to be completely dismissive.

 

It is absolutely amazing that so many different people have offered suggestions, yet you seem to be completely ignoring them.  You came back to post about how much we hurt your feelings, and then to get into an internet slap-fight.  Yet when I'm finally able to get you to respond to some rationaly delivered concerns you simply ignore parts of it, and then just blow me off when I respond.  

All of this started because a recruit got upset about comments on this blog.  That means they read this blog.  That also means they could be reading your comments now.  Maybe you should think about acting a bit more professionally when interacting with us.  If you can't, perhaps you should simply limit yourself to your front page posts and turn the comments off.

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, because I kinda enjoyed your stuff.  But if this is how you are going to treat people that offering help, I'm not sure there is much we can do for you.  If you keep doing what you are doing, you are going to run afoul of a school with a policy like I have described, and it will have the potential for screwing over a blog that lots of us care about.  But hey man, just as long as you get your clicks, right?

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9602

Brandon Brown

September 25th, 2013 at 8:52 PM ^

I appreciate the advice. Some of it will be considered and some won't. I wasn't being dismissive, I just said thanks. Yes, the recruit read the original article because he asked me to send him the link, which I honestly wish I wouldn't have done after how all of it went and how people posted off-putting comments about him for no reason.

And what?!?! There's not much you can do for me? No offense, but what makes you think any of the staff need or want your help or anyone elses for that matter? I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but seriously, we can't possibly please everyone or take every bit of advice that people feel the need to offer up.

And lastly, I'm not sure how you think it works for me, but I don't have a quota. I don't care how many "clicks" I get. That's not what it's about at all. I started The M Block almost 2 years ago and never earned a cent. I don't care about clicks, I enjoy doing this, or at least I used to.

Joined: 10/15/2012

MGoPoints: 3732

Shop Smart Sho…

September 25th, 2013 at 9:16 PM ^

Perhaps I over-reacted.  In that case, I apologize.  I will say that your short response was a bit strange considering the length of your previous response, and that you seemingly ignored the question that I thought summed up what most of us were concerned about.  Even if I disagreed with your answer about just contacting the parents/school first, I would have dropped it.  Because at least then we would have some closure on the comment you made last night that started this particular part of the discussion.

"And what?!?! There's not much you can do for me? No offense, but what makes you think any of the staff need or want your help or anyone elses for that matter? I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but seriously, we can't possibly please everyone or take every bit of advice that people feel the need to offer up."

I think some of us are offering advice because you are new to us.  I think we are offering advice because we also have a certain level of experience with what the kids and parents that are being contacted go through, which could be different from your experience as a coach and teacher.  And honestly, I'm offering advice because I've been coming to this website for way too long, so I feel an illogical attachment to it.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9602

Ghost of BCook…

September 26th, 2013 at 1:10 AM ^

Brandon Brown:  You are a pathetic little man, a shining example of all that is wrong in amateur athletics.  I suggest you tell your internet teeny friends that they need to be able to handle innocuous comments if they ever plan on being tough enough to play NCAA football.  What you and Brian have done to great users like MGoBrewMom is fucking disgusting, and to continue that by still arguing that what they said was "offputting" is psychotic.  In closing, fuck you.  

I will enjoy watching from afar as you and Brian help to alienate the long faithful user base.  

Sincerely,  

The user formerly known as Butterfield

Joined: 09/25/2013

MGoPoints: 1301

MH20

September 26th, 2013 at 9:25 AM ^

I see you're taking the "high road" and getting one last good shot in before you leave.  How upstanding.  A real classy sign off with the "fuck you."

I hate to break it to you but this place will continue to function just fine whether you're here or not. 

Question: how will you watch from afar if you claim to never be returning?  Never mind, I don't really care anymore.  Enjoy the Internet.

Joined: 10/30/2008

MGoPoints: 40453

Raoul

September 26th, 2013 at 5:50 PM ^

Not sure that's much different from the old MGoBlog, but this is probably the first time it's been flat-out stated. I love the way he speaks for the entire staff. Do they all feel this way?

The staff responses in this thread were pretty poor. People endlessly bitch and moan about the way the Michigan AD is treating fans, and yet here at ground zero for that bitching and moaning, questioning of editorial decisions or the way staffers conduct their business is dismissed with extreme defensiveness or outright derision.

Joined: 09/29/2009

MGoPoints: 13957

Shop Smart Sho…

September 26th, 2013 at 8:14 PM ^

"Not sure that's much different from the old MGoBlog"

I would really like to think it is.  It seems that back when the blog was new there was a lot of give-and-take between writers and commenters.  Of course, I think that was when the user-generated stuff was sparking ideas for the writers, so it made sense for them to interact.  But now it seems like if you make a suggestion or write an email to ask a question it generally just gets ignored.  

 

The times, they are a'changin'.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9602

bronxblue

September 25th, 2013 at 8:54 PM ^

What help are you really offering?  Faux concern for the guy?  A continued discourse in which you lecture him about his personal and professional decisions relating to his employment and duties here at the blog?  I fail to see why, after he clearly answered your concerns with a thoughtful response (it doesn't mean you have to like it), you keep pestering him.  I continue to laugh at the outrage going on this site, but maybe its time to leave this issue alone.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171035

Shop Smart Sho…

September 25th, 2013 at 9:08 PM ^

Faux concern?  Who are you to judge?  I, and others in this thread, have expressed a concern about the methods being employed.  Some of expressing this concern have identified ourselves as teachers, coaches, and reporters.  I think that particular subset of posters is rather uniquely qualified to comment on what Brandon is doing.  

I disagree that he answered thoughtfully, which is why I rephrased my questions and concerns.  I assumed that it wasn't thoughtful because of the volume of posts that have been made on this very topic, not that he was being rude.  After I rephrased, and attempted to clarify my position and questions is when I felt he became dismissive, so I responded the way I did.

I don't believe, until my last post to him that I had been anything but calm and polite about the concerns over his methodology.  I readily admit to being a bit scattered an unorganized, which is what I was trying to fix.  As far as outrage, I am not sure how you can lump me in with that particular segment of this long thread.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9602

Shop Smart Sho…

September 25th, 2013 at 6:54 PM ^

Maybe if you didn't ignore the advice being given to you by reporters, teachers, and coaches we wouldn't be having this problem.  I think most of us are simply looking out for the best interest of the blog with our suggestions for how you go about contacting children.  If you don't want to have this conversation here, that is fine.  You can get my email from my registration information.  I'm more than happy to share my concerns and suggestions in a private manner.

I appreciate what you are doing working here.  I just think there is room for improvement.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9602

State Street

September 25th, 2013 at 7:07 PM ^

No offense bro, you seem like a pretty even keeled, nice guy.  But I think a lot of the flack you're receiving right now results from your lack of willingness to take some of these concerns (most of which could end up making you a better "reporter" in the long run) seriously.  A "you guys bring up some valid points, I will discuss with Brian and reevaluate" would go a long way to quelling the masses.  

But to just pack up everything and pick up your ball and go home because of this?  Come on.  

This blog has never done things the "conventional" way.

Yes, it may be "conventional" for old dudes to tweet at adolescents, hoping to engage them in conversation.  

But that doesn't mean there's not a better way to go about this.

Joined: 07/09/2011

MGoPoints: 15316

Brandon Brown

September 25th, 2013 at 8:03 PM ^

Brian and I have been discussing everything that is being said on here. We may not have announced that, but honestly, we don't have to. There are 10's of thousands of people that visit this site, with only a portion of them posting and commenting. Everyone is not going to be pleased all the time. People all have their own ideas and approaches to everything they do. The bottom line is, I'm going to do what I've been asked to do by Brian, and I'm going to respect the wishes of the recruits, parents, and coaches that I talk to. If that's not good enough or acceptable for the readers here, I don't really know what to tell you.

Joined: 10/15/2012

MGoPoints: 3732

Geaux_Blue

September 25th, 2013 at 8:25 PM ^

I'd bet that people much more active than myself are also the ones that shop through the banners, raise lurker awareness about "this great site called mgoblog," help with Kickstarter initiatives, donate to the causes that gets mgoblog noticed, etc. You can't claim there's tons of people who say nothing and expect that's bc they agree with you. That's park of social media, customer service in particular, and the quickest way for a brand to lose its foothold

Joined: 01/25/2009

MGoPoints: 24096

Geaux_Blue

September 25th, 2013 at 8:19 PM ^

Scrolling through there's a distinct line in the sand with how people took all of this and it's almost exclusively along time put into the site. Those that have been around a long time seem to be uncomfortable with the site's direction while new people, who haven't seen the genesis, go with the "it is as he says."

Damn near exactly down ~2-3 yrs of posting presence. Speaks to how wildly successfully the site has become for the most part but also how brands struggle to maintain as they branch out and have wider audiences

Joined: 01/25/2009

MGoPoints: 24096

bronxblue

September 25th, 2013 at 9:05 PM ^

I've come to realize that apparently I don't fall into the older guard when it comes to how this site appears to others or how its culture has evolved.  I mostly come for the sports coverage; recruiting has never been my bag so I guess the RAGE others have felt about the Savage post and the fallout hasn't hit home.

Honestly, I think Brian overreacted a bit, but I do think that this site's prominence has led to an influx of people who were's around during the earlier times, and the kind of self-policing that went on back then would have mitigated this early on.  That said, this is Brian's blog, and he has more stake in it than anyone else.  People talk about how they are "out" and how they are "sick" of the way this issue bore about with the banhammer, and my response has generally been "It's a frinking blog.  Create a new username if you want to comment, or just keep reading and don't log in."  This isn't water or housing; it's entertainment.  And UM football or basketball isn't going to really suffer because one kid read a comment on the blog and got turned off; only Brian will lose money, pageviews, and access.  So if he wants to unleash his own brand of justice, so be it.  Ban me tomorrow, I'd just come back anew and keep reading and posting.  If the site goes to hell, I'll find my fix at other sites (I'm guessing that nice list over <------ has some solid first leads).  But no, I don't see this blog violating its ethos; I see a product evolving and some people becoming annoyed, at least in part, because it isn't how they would run it.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171035

turd ferguson

September 25th, 2013 at 9:31 PM ^

I think that probably reflects correlations between time spent on the site and some personality characteristics.  

There are obviously loads of exceptions, but I think the longer-time posters are probably, on average, a little more drawn to the analytical stuff here (e.g., the Mathlete's work) and some of the bigger, broader questions about ethics and college sports.  We're also probably more entitled and snobbish, more inclined to be "get off my lawn" types (who aren't thrilled with DB), more interested in reading good writing (as, I think, Brian's is), more sarcastic with our humor, etc.

The potentially bizarre future for MGoBlog is one in which most of the front page content appeals primarily to this personality type while the vast majority of people who visit - and post on the board - are completely different types of Michigan fans (e.g., MLive expats).  Getting to that future might require an another site to pop up and attract the personalities I'm associating with the old-timers here - and it's very possible that we won't get to that future anytime soon - but it'll be interesting to watch.

Joined: 12/09/2009

MGoPoints: 26493

dnak438

September 27th, 2013 at 8:36 AM ^

I'm an older poster and I prefer the analytical stuff and Brian's writing about the nature of fandom.

The recruiting stuff has always made me a bit uncomfortable. Maybe the kids and the parents are happy with the attention, but it doesn't mean that it's what's best for them. I suspect that in most cases it's not.

But it's Brian's site and if he wants to cover recruiting it's not a big deal to me. I just won't pay much attention to it.

Joined: 08/12/2009

MGoPoints: 7912