Anyone else think this years D-Line is better than last years?

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August 16th, 2012 at 7:36 PM
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gordie bell
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Anyone else think this years D-Line is better than last years?

Coach Hoke answers question:

Does the defensive front have the potential to be as good as last year's? I think so. I know we think so. I think Greg [Mattison] and Jerry [Montgomery] would tell you the same thing

 

Hoke, Mattison, and Montgomery think this years Defensive Line can be as good as last years. I think it can be better; It's certainly more talented

BWC is as talented or more talented than Mike Martin, and all signs point to his senior season being a breakout one.

Black and Roh are more talented than Van Bergen and Heinenger

We are probably losing some on the end with Clark out and Beyer starting for the first time, compared to what Roh was able to deliver, even though Roh was playing out of position. If Clark is able to get back early in the season, I think the End position will be good.

One reason I think this years D-Line can be better is summed up in 2 words: Ondre Pipkins

When I watched the match-up between Pipkins and 4th year all BIG caliber tackle Michael Schofield, I was impressed. The collision between the two was ferocious, then Pipkins drove Schofield to his knees, shed the block, and made the tackle. Incredible to watch an 18 year old that advanced physically. I don't see anyway Pipkins doesn't see significant playing time early in the season, and by the end of the season, Pipkins and Big Will will be a formidable duo on the inside.

By the way: Nobody knows it, but Pee Wee can dunk.

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August 16th, 2012 at 7:37 PM | "BWC is as talented or more (Score:5 Normal)
BlueBarron
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"BWC is as talented or more talented than Mike Martin"
"Black and Roh are more talented than Van Bergen and Heinenger"

Are you the Fred Jackson of defensive linemen?

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August 16th, 2012 at 7:45 PM | The first one is a bit of a (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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The first one is a bit of a stretch, but the second is not.  BWC has size and athleticism that MM did not, Martin had most everything else though, so is that ends up being a wash I'd be happy. 

But I don't see why the Roh-Black combo isn't as good as RVB-Heininger.  Sure, they're smaller, but certainly more athletic. 

Also - we probably have more depth this year than last.  Last season, the only back ups we ever saw were BWC on occasion and Black at WDE.  This year, I think we'll have slightly more rotation on the DL with Brink or Heitzman at SDE, Pipkins and Ash at the tackles and (hopefully) Clark at WDE. 

August 16th, 2012 at 9:35 PM | I agree about roh and black (Score:2)
HipsterCat
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I think we will be better rushing the passer overall due to the increase in speed, as long as they can get used to the new positions (mostly black but still will affect roh) and the double teams they will face. However I am fearful this will weaken the rushing defense against the wisconsins/alabamas of the world. Overall starwise they will be "more talented" but they are pretty inexperienced as a group, I wouldn't be suprised to see them struggle early on and end up dominate in the second half once everyone gets comfortable

August 16th, 2012 at 10:04 PM | BWC has the size advantage. (Score:4 Normal)
TTUwolverine
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But what measures of athleticism are you using other than "is taller and heavier" that would lead you to believe that BWC is more athletic than Martin?  Martin is stronger, faster and quicker than BWC.  I know you generally disagree with what the OP said, but that first claim is much more of a stretch than I think you're giving him credit for. 

August 16th, 2012 at 11:33 PM | Your dictionary must have a (Score:0 Trolling)
August 17th, 2012 at 11:02 AM | Mike Martin won a state (Score:3 Insightful)
chunkums
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Mike Martin won a state championship in his first year ever wrestling, and was college football's strongest man last year.  I don't think we can say with even remote certainty that Campbell is a better athlete.

For today, goodbye. For tomorrow, good luck. And forever, Go Blue.

August 16th, 2012 at 9:19 PM | Uhhh. Yeah. I agree with Mr. (Score:1 Trolling)
Phil Brinkma
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Uhhh. Yeah. I agree with Mr. Barron. As a senior in high school, BWC was more highly touted than Martin. He has not shown in the past three years he can sniff Martin's cleats. I think BWC is primed to prove himself, but that statement is vastly overrated. Roh and Black both are changing positions and we don't know how they are going to react. The defensive line is one giant question mark. How anyone can honestly say they think they will be better is drinking the maize-n-blue kool-aid. Of course the coaches are going to talk up their guys. It's coachspeak. It doesn't mean anything.

Also, the gap between Clark and Beyer is being vastly overstated. Beyer can play. He got more playing time than Clark last year. Clark might make more big plays, but Beyer might be more consistent. Losing Clark sucks, but being 'stuck' with Beyer isn't a bad thing.

-- Hot ice!

August 16th, 2012 at 9:55 PM | BWC is a little bit straonger (Score:1 Trolling)
ChuckWood
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BWC is a little bit straonger than Woodley and Martin combined and just a bit faster than Denard....pause....He's pretty good.  

It's the same old story. Boy finds girl, boy loses girl, girl finds boy, boy forgets girl, boy remembers girl, girls dies in a tragic blimp accident over the Orange Bowl on New Year's Day. 

August 16th, 2012 at 7:39 PM | where did you see pee wee vs schofield? (Score:0 Flamebait)
August 16th, 2012 at 7:51 PM | It was in one of the CTK (Score:1)
TIMMMAAY
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It was in one of the CTK videos.

not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user

August 16th, 2012 at 8:19 PM | This one (Score:4 Normal)
토린
Joined: 04/07/2009
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August 16th, 2012 at 8:25 PM | Great Catch (Score:1)
Blue NY Gold
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Its at 2:09 in the clip!....

 

Good Eye!

August 16th, 2012 at 8:50 PM | Jeesh (Score:2)
gwrock
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Pee Wee can really move for someone that size.

August 16th, 2012 at 8:26 PM | Thank you, I was just about (Score:2)
gordie bell
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Thank you, I was just about to do the same

FYI to above poster: Pipkins v Schofield match takes place around the 2:07 mark, but of course you will want to watch the whole thing.

August 16th, 2012 at 9:16 PM | It wasn't that great. He (Score:-1 Normal)
August 16th, 2012 at 9:20 PM | compare it to the next clip (Score:2)
gordie bell
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compare it to the next clip of Q Washington, and I think the difference is stark

August 16th, 2012 at 9:23 PM | I agree, but being better (Score:-1 Normal)
August 16th, 2012 at 10:23 PM | still my fav. (Score:1)
j.o.s.e maizenblue
Joined: 01/04/2012
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still my favorite countdown to kick off.... great seeing the 1on1 up close

August 17th, 2012 at 9:45 AM | I'm fairly sure (Score:2)
DCAlum
Joined: 01/30/2012
MGoPoints: 216

That Peewee's whole career will involve him pretty much just facing off against guards and centers. That's sort of how the NT position works. Which means you are making the other poster's point for him.

August 17th, 2012 at 11:42 AM | No I'm saying Q is basically (Score:2 Normal)
michfan6060
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No I'm saying Q is basically a man without a position and probably would be better suited as a guard.

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

- Vince Lombardi

August 16th, 2012 at 7:40 PM | It all starts and ends with (Score:2)
ken725
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It all starts and ends with how BWC and Black preform on the interior.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

August 16th, 2012 at 7:40 PM | You could be cautiously (Score:3 Insightful)
corundum
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You could be cautiously optimistic and hope that they can replicate last years efficiency, but to replace Mike Martin and Ryan Van Bergen and claim superiority would be overdoing it IMO.

August 16th, 2012 at 7:45 PM | Should change your title to (Score:5 Normal)
Nothing.But.10ve
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Should change your title to "can be better" not "is better".  And I agree with you.  The ceiling is higher this year IMO

And where is this video of Pipkins you speak of?  Please link

I'm awesome.  Get over it

August 16th, 2012 at 7:54 PM | I agree (Score:1 Normal)
Blue NY Gold
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I 100% Agree, Please Link.

 

I would love to see this if its true!

 

There seemed to be a hint of "Freshman Hype" could be related to the underperformance of our upperclassman at the NYC Alumni Event last night, but PeeWee handling our offensive lineman would (in my mind) alleviate any concerns!  

Im just looking for proof!

Thanks for the info though.

August 16th, 2012 at 8:04 PM | You are right on the title (Score:5 Normal)
gordie bell
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You are right on the title change, but I am not going to change it now, because it would bastardize the context of some of the posts.

August 16th, 2012 at 9:21 PM | I think the video he's (Score:1)
straight-gangst...
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I think the video he's referencing is one of the countdown to kickoff's from a couple days ago.  I think it was first day of pads, 1-on-1's.....  Kind of recall PeeWee in there.  Not sure if I came away as impressed, but he is athletic.

August 16th, 2012 at 7:44 PM | Unfortunately, No.  BWC had (Score:3 Normal)
Bb011
Joined: 09/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1745

Unfortunately, No.  BWC had more potential than Mike Martin coming out of HS, but he is by no means more talented when comparing the two going into their senior year. Martin was much more talented. Also, Van Bergen is better than Black and Roh, granted Roh does have a chance to be better. This is making it sound like I think our line is bad, which it isn't, it will be okay. I just think that our line last year was better than this years will be.

August 16th, 2012 at 7:47 PM | Not sure if you can come out (Score:4 Normal)
ken725
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Not sure if you can come out and say those things definitively. 

Like what others have said, they all have higher ceilings than their predecessors. Especially if you consider RVB to Black. Black is going to bring more speed to the pass rush than RVB.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

August 16th, 2012 at 7:52 PM | I think you would compare (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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I think you would compare Black to Heininger, not RVB, but your point still certainly stands, in fact probably more so. 

Roh is taking over for RVB, and I think his ceiling is also higher.  Even at WDE, you have Beyer starting for Roh, and although that sounds like a drop off, Beyer is better suited for that position than Roh was, I think. Beyer won't be as strong against the run as Roh was, but we have three returning starters at LB behind him to make up for that.  He'll bring a better pass rush than Roh did.

August 16th, 2012 at 7:55 PM | Yeah I did get those (Score:2)
ken725
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Yeah I did get those confused.  The speed on the DL is going to be upgraded for sure. 

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

August 16th, 2012 at 8:09 PM | That it will.  (Score:2)
WolvinLA2
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That it will. 

August 16th, 2012 at 7:45 PM | between you and Brian in NYC (per reports) (Score:4 Insightful)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
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I am revising expectations upwards for the season. What have I got to lose, after all? 

August 16th, 2012 at 7:46 PM | duffed it! (Score:1)
Dion
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duffed it!

August 16th, 2012 at 7:46 PM | It has the potential. Pipkins, Roh, Beyer, (Score:2)
hart20
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BWC, and Brink is a solid line-up. With 3 DL coaches and those players, I'm not too worried about the DL. I'm also not too worried about the OL. However, I am worried about our receivers, although the emergence of Darboh has alleviated my concerns, somewhat.

Yep, that's Simba made out of a pineapple.

August 17th, 2012 at 12:02 AM | MgoMeme? (Score:2 Flamebait)
Asgardian
Joined: 12/08/2010
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Can we formally accept:

#three_d-line_coaches!!!

as a new mgomeme?  I laugh everytime I read that on here.  Not to say it isn't true, but it just gets me every time somebody pulls that statement out again.  Sorry hart20, I don't mean to be a jerk.  Just had to ask.

"I have a dream that someday Michigan will not have freshmen on the field. That day is 2013 at the earliest." - Brian, Defense vs MSU UFR 2011

August 16th, 2012 at 7:55 PM | "BWC is as talented or more (Score:3 Normal)
NoMoPincherBug
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"BWC is as talented or more talented than Mike Martin"

Hold on a minute there.  Mike Martin was a 4 year stud at Michigan and is reportedly going to be a rookie starter for the Titans.

I like BWC a lot, but where has that "talent" shown on the field?  He was overhyped out of HS big time.  Im not saying that he is not a good player...but he is a hell of a long way from being as talented as Mike Martin.

Same with your statements on Roh and Black...I like them both but neither has come anywhere close to what RVB did in his career...

Roh (with the caveat that he has had several position switches) is underwhelming at the point of attack and disappears for several games at a time before he is heard from.

Black is in a new position and who knows how he will fare at 278 lbs.

No I dont think this year's DL is as good as last years, or will be as good.  Luckily though, the LBs are better and deeper and DBs are all back and should be better too in addition to everyone having another year under Mattison.

August 16th, 2012 at 7:50 PM | I disagree that older (Score:5 Normal)
Zone Left
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I disagree that older versions of Roh, Black, and Campbell along with the addition of Pipkins makes up for the loss of three starters along a very disruptive front. If Campbell goes from non-factor to All-Big 10, then I would agree that this line could be better, but I'll believe that when I see it. 

Pipkins may be ready physically, but he's still going to have a long, long way to go until he understands what he's supposed to be doing down-to-down. If he doesn't, Alabama's line will make him look pretty bad. 

It's all John Navarre's fault.

 

August 16th, 2012 at 9:17 PM | FYI (Score:1 Offtopic)
lakeside
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your sig is a dead link.

Man ball. Formerly, somebody else.

August 16th, 2012 at 9:52 PM | And another piece of my early (Score:3 Normal)
Zone Left
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And another piece of my early 20s died.

It's all John Navarre's fault.

 

August 16th, 2012 at 7:51 PM | By all accounts Beyer was (Score:2)
GehBlau
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By all accounts Beyer was actually beating out Frank Clark for the starting spot before the legal stuff. Don't really know if Clark will come back and take the position away from Beyer or not, but adding him to the two-deep would be nice.

August 16th, 2012 at 7:56 PM | I hate to be a pessimist but (Score:-1 Flamebait)
August 16th, 2012 at 8:06 PM | That's fine, but since none (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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That's fine, but since none of us have any info on this, that's nothing more than a feeling. 

August 16th, 2012 at 8:15 PM | i know but 2nd degree home (Score:-1 Flamebait)
August 16th, 2012 at 8:22 PM | Dantonio style (Score:1)
Roachgoblue
Joined: 08/29/2011
MGoPoints: 1477

Pick him up from jail, and make him sit out one series. That would be a way to get him in. It would take a total jackass that doesn't give a shit about the players, but it is an option. Oh wait, sorry I was having a Sparty flashback.

[Caved troll is caved. Sorry, Mobile app users.]

August 16th, 2012 at 8:40 PM | Yes, but he wouldn't be the (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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Yes, but he wouldn't be the first person charges of something without getting convicted of it, right?  Isn't this the same charge Marvin Robinson had last year?  And nothing came of it.  I'm just saying, a lot of times these things end up being a lot less of a deal once all the facts come out.  I have a feeling that if he really busted into a dorm room and ganked a laptop he'd be off the team and in not-Ann Arbor anymore. 

The fact that he's still around suggests to me that this will all come to pass.

August 16th, 2012 at 10:36 PM | I hope you are right.  Clark (Score:1 Normal)
NoMoPincherBug
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I hope you are right.  Clark is a great athlete and has a very good frame with long arms which are unusual for a DL.

August 17th, 2012 at 8:47 AM | Did someone say, "More than a feeling?" (Score:2)
Logan88
Joined: 01/05/2009
MGoPoints: 2907

 

The video footage is from "The Men Who Stare At Goats." If you haven't seen this movie, stop whatever you are doing RIGHT NOW and go watch this film. It is absolutely hilarious.

We ARE Michigan....COME GET SOME!!!

August 16th, 2012 at 7:53 PM | BWC is no where near Mike (Score:-1 Overrated)
August 16th, 2012 at 8:28 PM | BWC (Score:0 Flamebait)
August 16th, 2012 at 8:55 PM | This. (Score:3 Normal)
Run 2 Daylight
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Mike Martin was an elite player. If Will Campbell were to outdo his senior year, he'd be bordering on Suh level production.

Go Blue!

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