enough said.
This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.
Answer the Wisc. Offense debate for yourself: UM v. Wisc. on BTN now
July 9th, 2011 at 11:19 AM
#1
Answer the Wisc. Offense debate for yourself: UM v. Wisc. on BTN now
July 9th, 2011 at 11:22 AM | 
Damn
Damn
July 9th, 2011 at 11:22 AM |
I defintely prefer the power
I defintely prefer the power
I defintely prefer the power rushing attack, but just because the spread didn't fully develop for us doesn't mean it is a terrible offense.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
- Vince Lombardi
July 9th, 2011 at 11:26 AM |
Sounds fun
Sounds fun
Sounds fun, but I think I would rather watch games in which we don't get our ass handed to us.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:31 AM |
What's to debate?
What's to debate?
They ran at us straight up the middle 24 times in a row and we couldn't stop it.
Sure, their offense was good, but this was mostly due to our epic FAIL of a defense.
When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing. -Bo
July 9th, 2011 at 11:35 AM |
To be fair, it wasn't just
To be fair, it wasn't just
To be fair, it wasn't just our defense who couldn't stop them for a damn. And our defense was (apparently) better than Indiana's.
Twenty-two Michigan Wolverines
put on the gloves of gray.
And as Revelli played The Victors,
they laid Woody Hayes away.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:32 AM |
I watched up until the missed
I watched up until the missed
I watched up until the missed FG. I can't relive that nightmare anymore.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
- Vince Lombardi
July 9th, 2011 at 11:46 AM |
I like Spielmans response to
I like Spielmans response to
I like Spielmans response to the kicking game being mental. He said "don't give me that mental stuff just kick the ball through the uprights from 25 yards out"
"im saying to myself should i do it should i not. I crossed the goaline and hey...fuck it" Desmond Howard on his Heisman pose
July 9th, 2011 at 12:44 PM |
Spielman may be a buckeye but
Spielman may be a buckeye but
Spielman may be a buckeye but he is one of the most entertaining and knowledgeable color men in the business. Hope he does the OSU game this year so he can show how to be a good loser.
jbibiza
July 9th, 2011 at 3:49 PM |
Thanks
Thanks
for sharing that.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:42 AM |
All part of a new series:
All part of a new series:
All part of a new series: Ugliest Games in Big 10 History. Next week, Michigan vs Michigan State 2002. Stay tuned for our special marathon, "Each of Northwestern's 34 Straight Losses From 1979-82 in 60 Minutes: Per Game."
July 9th, 2011 at 11:43 AM |
Brian vs. Everyone else on
Brian vs. Everyone else on
Brian mumbling "ignore scoring, only focus on yardage being one standard deviation above the mean" vs. Everyone else on the planet thinking he can't see the forest from the trees now constitutes a debate? Wow.
"Here we are at Ohio Stadium, in front of 10,000 alumni and 74,000 truck drivers." - Bob Ufer
July 9th, 2011 at 12:53 PM |
Quite a few people agree with
Quite a few people agree with
Quite a few people agree with Brian. Being down by 9 with most of the 2nd half left does not equal us getting demolished.
July 9th, 2011 at 7:35 PM |
...because of the defense
...because of the defense
...because of the defense
July 9th, 2011 at 8:46 PM |
No, it was because of both
No, it was because of both
No, it was because of both sides of the ball (and special teams can't be overlooked either). Every time Wisconsin scored, our offense got the ball back. In order for Wisconsin to build that lead, they had to stop our offense, which they did all first half. Otherwise we would have kept on tying the game.
July 9th, 2011 at 9:01 PM |
We had 5 possessions in the
We had 5 possessions in the
We had 5 possessions in the first half. 1 missed field goal. 1 we got back with 30 seconds to play in the half at our own 15 yard line. So you are basically saying our offense was awful because they didn't convert on three 1st half possessions. Some of the best offenses in the nation were shut down 3 times in the first half. Those same teams were probably not down by 24 at the half. It wasn't the offense, it was the defense.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:47 AM |
Dvr'd
Dvr'd
The 93 rose bowl for an occasion just like this.
2013 resolution - make it onto the 2014 favorite MGoPosters post, not ironically
July 9th, 2011 at 12:09 PM |
TD!
TD!
Only down 9 with 9min left in the third...we have a chance!
UM vs osu 2011 bring your keys and make noise (get it keys!)
July 9th, 2011 at 12:19 PM |
D Sto
D Sto
Damn, we need Stonum this year. He was the man in this game. Great catches.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:21 PM |
Offense was fine. Defense
Offense was fine. Defense
Offense was fine. Defense was just turrible. Hurts to watch, but it can only get better, right?
July 9th, 2011 at 8:50 PM |
An offense that scores zero
An offense that scores zero
An offense that scores zero points in a half is not fine. Thanks to our complete failure to show up in the first half, in all three phases of the game, we faced a deficit (24-0) larger than any we've overcome in school history.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:26 PM |
That 2nd round draft pick by
That 2nd round draft pick by
That 2nd round draft pick by the Chargers still has me scratching my head.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:34 PM |
Well...
Well...
Maybe the Chargers don't use defensive schemes that use "containment"
July 9th, 2011 at 1:07 PM |
Just Caught the End
Just Caught the End
I couldn't really bear to watch, but I did just catch the last series. The field and the uniforms looked really pretty in the late fall sunshine. That was the only thing good about it.
Please, Lord, let this season be much better.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:32 PM |
Feelings
Feelings
You must be stupid if you don't agree with me. Stop using your feelings to judge what you saw.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
July 10th, 2011 at 12:35 AM |
Is that a bitterrivals.com reference?
Is that a bitterrivals.com reference?
.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:44 PM |
In 2007 Michigan had a team
In 2007 Michigan had a team
In 2007 Michigan had a team loaded with offensive talent. Hart, Henne, Manningham, Arrington, Long, they were stacked. Michigan scored 21 points against Wisconsin that year in a loss gaining 320 yards total.
Last years team scored 28 points against Wisconsin and gained 442 total yards.
In both games the defense was horrible and cost Michigan the game.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
July 9th, 2011 at 1:50 PM |
Yes, completely ignore the
Yes, completely ignore the
Yes, completely ignore the catastrophic injuries to Henne and Hart in 2007, and ignore 2010's points coming almost entirely once Wisconsin stopped giving anything approaching max effort. Ridiculous.
"Here we are at Ohio Stadium, in front of 10,000 alumni and 74,000 truck drivers." - Bob Ufer
July 9th, 2011 at 1:50 PM |
2007
2007
If I remember correctly the 2007 Wisco game was the 2nd to last game of the regular season, and was not as important as the final game vs OSU in terms of winning the b10 and going to the Rose bowl. A win vs. Wisco and a loss vs OSU would have been the same as a loss and a loss (cap 1 bowl, due to the terrible non-conference performance at large BCS was out of the picture). As such, if my memory serves me, Henne and Hart played very limited roles in that game. So the list of 2007 offensive talent at our disposal in 2007 doesn't reflect what was actually on the field against Wisconsin.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
July 9th, 2011 at 2:02 PM |
Mallet (another
Mallet (another
Mallet (another NFL draftee) threw 3 TD's against Wisconsin that game. He threw two picks but Henne threw one himself that game. Hart didn't play but the rest of the offense did. While one could make the case that Michigan was saving things for OSU the following week that would fall flat a bit. Michigan scored 3 points the following week against OSU in which Henne and Hart played the entire game. They must not have saved much...
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
July 9th, 2011 at 2:36 PM |
Henne and Hart
Henne and Hart
Most definitely did not play the entire game the next week. I was sitting in section 11 and remember Henne making multiple trips to the locker room during the game.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
July 9th, 2011 at 3:13 PM |
Henne was 11/34 in the OSU
Henne was 11/34 in the OSU
Henne was 11/34 in the OSU game. Hart had 18 carries for 44 yards. The defense played one of their best games all year against OSU and the offense sucked.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
July 9th, 2011 at 4:49 PM |
Henne and Hart weren't even
Henne and Hart weren't even
Henne and Hart weren't even close to being healthy that day. Their horrifically low production should make that clear. They saw the field for one reason: they were seniors against OSU.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:13 PM |
Henne was 11/34 in the OSU
Henne was 11/34 in the OSU
Henne was 11/34 in the OSU game. Hart had 18 carries for 44 yards. The defense played one of their best games all year against OSU and the offense sucked.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
July 9th, 2011 at 2:37 PM |
The Draft and Injury
The Draft and Injury
Please don't use the fact that Ryan Mallett is an NFL draftee as a point of favor with him. There's a big difference between what a guy does his freshman year and what he does after 3-4 years of development.
Second, you can't heal season long injuries in a week or so. It was a long shot that they would be healthy by OSU, but one that they had to take if they wanted to win the Big Ten Title
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
July 9th, 2011 at 3:21 PM |
Almost like Denard being a
Almost like Denard being a
Almost like Denard being a first year starter? One that was hurt numerous times throughout the year? Combine with Shaw being hurt? In fact Shaw didn't play in the Wisconsin game...
That is a valid excuse right? Or is a double standard being used?
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
July 9th, 2011 at 4:56 PM |
In 2010, Denard Robinson was
In 2010, Denard Robinson was
In 2010, Denard Robinson was a sophomore and a regular starter. Ryan Mallett in 2007 was a true freshman backup who was pressed into service when Henne went down. A more apt comparison would be Mallett 2007 : Denard 2009. Both were dreadfully inaccurate passers as freshmen.
It's true that we weren't entirely healthy for UW last year, but Denard almost certainly was healthier than Henne at the end of 2007, and I don't think Shaw (who has never rushed for more than 400 yards in a season) can be compared to Mike Hart, our school's all-time leading rusher, in importance.
But anyway, if you want to argue that the Wisconsin game, alone, can't be used as a condemnation of last year's offense, I don't disagree. I don't think single games can be used to prove a point. My issue with last year's offense was that in every week from MSU onward (save Illinois), the offense was shut down for long stretches and did most of its scoring in desperation time. One week can be a fluke. Seven times in eight games? Not so much.
July 9th, 2011 at 7:25 PM |
So you don't want to use one
So you don't want to use one
So you don't want to use one game to prove a point, right? Why don't we look at the whole season then, because with all of that talent on the 07 team, they had to have had a better offense as we all know the 2010 offense was shut down way too much.
2007 Michigan Offense:
7 wins
26.1 points per game (9th in B10)
373.5 yards per game (10th in B10)
2489 passing yards (8th in B10)
1993 rushing yards (6th in B10)
2010 Michigan Offense:
34.3 points per game (3rd in B10)
500.9 yards per game (1st in B10)
2998 passing yards (2nd in B10)
3013 rushing yards (2nd in B10)
And before you decide to tell me how often Henne and Hart were injured or the level of competition, remember that people bitch all day about RichRod running Denard too much because he didn't make it all the way through many games. And remember, for every time the 2010 team put up 42 against UMass, 65 against bowling green, and 67 against Illinois , the 2007 team put up 38 against a shitty ND team, put up 32 against Appy State and lost, put up 33 against EMU, and put up 48 against purdue. So for as much as you want to hate last year's offense, they played a similar schedule and vastly outperformed the 07 offense that had 5 players drafted into the NFL. Oh, and both teams won 7 games. I don't know why we started comparing the 07 offense to last year's anyway.
July 9th, 2011 at 7:45 PM |
I agree with you, but we won
I agree with you, but we won
I agree with you, but we won 8 in 07, plus the bowl win against Florida.
"A Michigan Man will coach a Michigan Team"
July 9th, 2011 at 9:05 PM |
For some reason I thought we
For some reason I thought we
For some reason I thought we won 7 in 07. We definitely won 9. Maybe I was counting the Appy State and Oregon losses as 2 each.
July 9th, 2011 at 8:16 PM |
meaningful offensive stats
meaningful offensive stats
I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but a proper comparison would be to look at the number of yards/points per possession, when the team was within 10 points (arbitrary but you get my point) of their opponent. The big criticism of the 2010 team was that they put up those stats in meaningless situations.
This argument has gotten to a point that I don't understand. What are you trying to prove? That the 2010 offense was better than the 2007 offense? Who cares? I mean why does that matter at all? Are you assuming that Hoke wants to revert directly to the 2007 offense?
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
July 9th, 2011 at 8:52 PM |
I didn't bring up the 07
I didn't bring up the 07
I didn't bring up the 07 offense. It was brought up and then it was compared to the 2010 offense. Either way, my point was that our offense in 2010 was better than any offense we have seen for a very long time and was at the top of the B10 in most categories. So for all the bitching about when we scored against good opponents, we played pretty much the same schedule as every year and outperformed all of those offenses. It really isn't that tough to see that this offense was good. For everyone saying we padded our stats with big scores against Illinois (who was a bowl eligible team) and bowling green, I was pointing to years in which our offense padded stats against a 3 win ND and a shitty purdue by scoring nearly 90 points against the 2 of them. I guess if you want to look at individual games and say "see, against Wisconsin we didn't score in the first half" you can. But considering we played the exact same schedule as every other year, why not just look at overall numbers, in which we had a very, very good offense. If your point is that we struggled against better defenses, then I would say "no shit....most good defenses tend to be, you know, good."
July 9th, 2011 at 9:06 PM |
I don't disagree
I don't disagree
I don't disagree that our offense was good last year. I just think it is a weak argument to say well team X played against cream puffs too, so obviously we can compare the entire sample of team Y even though the cream puffs may have been different or in different quantity. I mean beating a team 50 to 0 vs beating 2 teams 100 to 0 are blow outs either way, but will make a big difference on total stats.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
July 9th, 2011 at 9:36 PM |
Just remember everything
Just remember everything
Just remember everything being said and use their standards for this years team. The excuse mobile will be driving all over these boards is my guess.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
July 9th, 2011 at 9:39 PM |
"excuse mobile"
"excuse mobile"
So there wasn't said "excuse mobile" driving all over these boards in 2008 or 2009? If Hoke doesn't get the job done after 3 years, he will be treated just like Rich.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
July 9th, 2011 at 9:46 PM |
Whoever said there wasn't? Of
Whoever said there wasn't? Of
Whoever said there wasn't? Of course since you were critical of said excuses you'll be sure not to make them for Hoke. Right?
/doesn't hold breath.
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
July 9th, 2011 at 9:52 PM |
in 2008?
in 2008?
I was not critical of said excuses. I was drinking the cool-aid like everyone else. Looking back on it, I feel pretty stupid. But I guess that is what being a fan is all about, always being optimistic.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
July 10th, 2011 at 12:21 AM |
All your crying
All your crying
And Rich is still never coming back. Deal with it. And if Hoke has a losing record his first two years and gets luckier than hell not to have one in his third year, people will be running him out of town. The difference will be this site will be leading the way rather than still making excuses 6 months after he's gone.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
July 9th, 2011 at 1:47 PM |
The best part of watching
The best part of watching
The best part of watching that game was the announcers talking about how Brady Hoke was a freat coach
"Ohio is like a giant turd that Michigan just can't pinch off"
July 9th, 2011 at 2:28 PM |
Offenses vs. Wisconsin: first four drives
Offenses vs. Wisconsin: first four drives
Using the official MGoBlog definition of a good team (Any team that is 7-6 or better and was not beaten by a Rich Rodriguez coached team, thus giving an individual the full opportunity to condemn him as a total failure and place no positive credit in his pockets for anything good that occurs in the Michigan football program over the next three years), this is how their offenses fared against Wisconsin last season:
Michigan (7-6): 24 plays, 100 yds, 0 pts, 0 TOs, 1 missed FG
Northwestern (7-6): 18 plays, 68 yds, 3 pts, 3 TOs
MSU (11-2): 24 plays, 145 yds, 6 pts, 2 TOs
OSU (12-1): 26 plays, 94 yds, 3 pts, 0 TOs, 1 missed FG
Iowa (8-5): 32 plays, 185 yds, 14 pts, 1 TO
TCU (13-0): 18 plays, 142 yds, 14 pts, 0 TO (only 3 drives. Wisconsin held onto the ball for an absurd 21:28 in the first half)
So what does this tell us about our offense? Absolutely nothing. I don't think anyone would consider MSU or Iowa's offense better than OSU's, but there they were, outperforming the Buckeyes. Northwestern managed 32 less yards and 3 more turnovers, yet outscored us because, as always, the offense isn't the only part that matters in putting up points.
In short, using one game vs. one team to judge whether or not a unit is successful is ridiciulous. It would be like watching Oregon and Cal last year and coming to the conclusion that Oregon had a terrible offense. Or watching us play Purdue and coming away saying "Hey, the Wolverines don't look that bad on the defensive side of the ball".
July 9th, 2011 at 4:59 PM |
Using the official MGoBlog
Using the official MGoBlog
Using the official MGoBlog definition of a good team (Any team that is 7-6 or better
Since when is 7-6 ever considered a good season for Michigan?
The record itself is atrocious. That we were lucky to even be 7-6 (we went 4-0 in single-digit games) is worse still.
I'd love to watch it, but I'm scheduled for a waterboarding at noon, and after that I'm planning to spend the rest of the day pulling out my beard hairs one at a time.
They no longer call me Bisbiño