Another fire RR article
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/11/24/legally-speaking-now-is-tim…
My question: the National media seems to be embracing the fire RR story despite no evidence to support them. In fact, there is much more evidence supporting him then any speculation he should be fired.
Are there really people out there dumb enough that they think M will be better off with a new coach? When the National media says M supporters are pining for RR's firing, who are these people? Do they exist?
While immediately after a loss or during an all to frequent 3rd and 25 conversion I think to myself that its not acceptable, it is plain as day to see that firing the head coach will set us back years. Why does the media make this stuff up?
November 25th, 2009 at 7:37 PM ^
Sadly, they do exist. Many of them post on this site. A select few actually take the time to explain/argue their points, but most are the trolliest of trolls.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:40 PM ^
There are plenty of journalists that write these types of articles to generate activity and interest. Then again, it seems if somebody wrote a pro-RR article they'd likely receive as much attention for it.
That, and people love to hate Michigan. It happens when you're a top school (historically) like UM, Texas, Florida, etc..
November 25th, 2009 at 7:44 PM ^
Just be happy TomHagan doesn't work for a newspaper.
Or maybe he does...
November 25th, 2009 at 7:48 PM ^
now. It sends a terrible message to the players and the future coaches that two years under these circumstances is enough time. Not in this case.
RR has clearly been under attack and sabatoged by some inside and close to the program. Never been given a fair shake. I for one think he has done well taking the high road.
If we fire him, prematurely IMO, I hope he goes out wins 5 national titles somewhere.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:53 PM ^
he's way out on the limb regarding his logic on the violations clause.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:53 PM ^
He puts together a cogent argument, but one that is only valid if the administration were interested in getting out of this. They're apparently not, so it's moot.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:23 PM ^
In a reply to "Block M" above: wow... it has become pretty sad when you guys start using me as some sort of symbol of what you hate... all I go by is the facts though and if you disagree with my opinion, so be it. However my perspective has nothing to do with agendas, or "tinfoil hats" as the owner of this blog is accustomed to using for those that do not share his cup of koolaid. Facts are facts, and this guy has failed miserably at his job at Michigan... all aspects of on the field play, as well as quite a few disheartening and possibly dishonest off the field activities (NCAA investigation and defaulting on that $3 million loan for example) show a man who is struggling with his personal life, as well as his professional life... well' he'd better get it together fast, or you will be seeing more National articles suggesting RR get canned. You may disagree with this POV, but you can not deny the facts upon which people draw valid conclusions from.
peace.
PS: the only true problem in firing RR now would be with possible recruits for this year... since the program has already "bottomed out" on the field, and possibly a little with the NCAA (we will see when their report comes out in December)...then there is only one way to go: UP.
Whether Rich Rod is the man to lead UP, or someone else is much better suited to do it...is the KEY question right now. In the short term though, the only area that may suffer by letting RR go would be in short term recruiting. Of course, since the "cupboard is so bare" (either because of Lloyd as some of you have indicated, or RR's attrition which is more likely) then it will be bare for several years any way... so the time to cut bait, is probably best suited for Now... and this is what the author of that article above seems to be angling at.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:27 PM ^
In your first sentence you say "i just present the facts" and then say "it's fine if you don't agree with my opinions". The problems that myself and others have with you is that you present your opinions as facts.
A lot of us have proven that your so called "facts" are completely incorrect and a lot of us are frankly sick of dealing with your bs.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:29 PM ^
bouje... RR's record both on and off the field at UM...is a matter of fact. That is what I am talking about when I use the word Fact.
BTW: Happy Thanksgiving Everybody here at MGoblog!
When I say "enjoy your turkey"...I really mean the actual turkey! Have a great holiday.
:)
November 25th, 2009 at 8:30 PM ^
coach is the record. If Rich doesn't do better next year sure you can show him the door but doing it this year is ridiculous and makes you look like a fucking idiot.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:36 PM ^
Is your first sentence above what I said verbatim? No of course it isnt... but since you are in spin-mode obviously, I will leave you with this:
The Facts of Rich Rod's tenure at the University of Michigan, take in many factors of both on and off the field performance and issues.
Whether you, or I, or anyone else for that matter chooses to
a)ignore the Facts
b)recognize the Facts and try to understand the reasons for them
c)make excuses and come up with rationalizations for the Facts, etc....
or some combination of above are matters of personal choice, as we both know.
It doesnt make one's opinions "wrong" who simply looks at all the negativity and draws the conclusion from the myriad of problems... it simply is an opinion that is different than yours as you may make a different choice from above...perhaps a little bit of a or c.
Happy Holidays Bouje.
Go Blue!
November 25th, 2009 at 8:42 PM ^
"all I go by is the facts though and if you disagree with my opinion"
The problem is when you say "RR should be fired and has to be fired" that is just your opinion and it's not a fact yet you say that it is one. You have yet to say anything besides "well his record sucks" that has any basis at all with anything and frankly your comments on MLive/AnnArbor.com show that you have a mental imbalance and that you cannot take anything dealing with RR in a rational manner.
It's ridiculous
November 25th, 2009 at 9:30 PM ^
one may suggest that your obsession with following me around the internet (you know what I am talking about) shows that you are the one with the mental imbalance bouje.
You also are the one quick to throw out insults and call me names, rather than engage in to a debate as to why you believe that Rich Rod has done such a great job at UM and deserves more time.
Perhaps you need to take a step back and look at the big picture of what is really going on, and then gauge your actions and comments accordingly.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:38 PM ^
you say you present just the facts and then go on to say he was dishonest by defaulting on a real estate loan. i'm in real estate and while many defaults were dishonest just defaulting is not dishonest or, quite frankly, a significant portion of the state of michigan is "dishonest" by this mere "fact". a lot of honest people defaulted on loans both before this latest crisis and certainly after. this is the type of stuff you say where it is clear you just want to hang rr. not drinking any koolaid- just talking facts!
November 25th, 2009 at 10:02 PM ^
others have called you out to acknowledge us. You then keep spitting your venom at RR and the program. As far as what you've posted on stories when people post the stories they say "check out the comments look our buddy TomHagan is there (like the newest one about the alleged rape and how RR is recruiting shady guys do you even remember Larry Harrison?).
A coach can not be there every second for these kids and he tries to use his best judgment to get the best talent with the least amount of risk. To pretend that a "great coach and Michigan Man" will never have problems like this is stupid, ridiculous and naive.
There are two options for the type of person you are:
1. Troll
2. A terrible fan
I'm not sure which is worse
November 26th, 2009 at 1:01 PM ^
You twist facts, you don't use them as they are. Ever. Fuckoff.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:00 PM ^
God dammit, man! You can say that he has lost a lot of games and you can put that on RR. He's the head coach, he has more control over W-L than any other individual that doesn't actually play the game.
Then you can look at the players on the field. You can look at who was left at QB after Mallet transferred (he was leaving no matter the coach). We would've had John Wienke (an f'ing 3 star), Threet and Sheridan. Good luck with that Les!
The team he inherited had all of it's stars go to the NFL at a time where UM wasn't built to 'reload' like the great programs do.
What has changed off the field? Practice hours.. nothing proven yet. Players in trouble with the law... has happened before and is actually being dealt with better now.
Happy Holidays, tomhagan!
November 26th, 2009 at 9:41 AM ^
Your topic is just so much drivel but I can take that. What's excruciating is your poor use of the english language. Please have someone help you with your word usage, syntax, etc...and spare us the misery...thanks
November 26th, 2009 at 8:57 AM ^
If you're sick of his bs then don't respond and ignore it. Obviously you responding isn't working.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:39 PM ^
I have no problem with you thinking that Rodriguez isn't the answer for Michigan. You're entitled to your opinion, and there's a reasonable amount of data to back up your position. You don't like him, his style, his system, fine.
What annoys me about you is that you find it necessary to chime in as often as humanly possible to say the exact same thing. We all know where you stand, we don't need a new thread every time you think of another reason you dislike Rodriguez. Is it your right to post them? Sure. Do I "hate" you for it? Not at all. It's just annoying.
Lets hold off on judgement about the NCAA investigation until after that investigation is done. If the NCAA comes back with evidence that Rodriguez has willfully broken the rules or turned a blind eye, then you've got a very strong data point.
The real-estate deal seems to be a non-issue because he jumped into business with someone that he maybe shouldn't have. How does this suggest he's struggling in his personal life? The only thing he appears to be struggling with is all of the naysayers who hated him since the start and are giving him as hard a time as possible.
This is getting long, but one more thing. You say the ONLY reason not to fire Rodriguez now is that recruiting would suffer. This is the one point you make that is just plain ridiculous. What about the fact that we'd have to start over with a new system again. Do you not see how much of a struggle that is right now? What system do you want to go to? If you want to get a different spread coach, I just don't understand that either. Rodriguez, by all accounts, is the man who invented the spread and has had success with it everywhere he's coached. If you want to go back to pro-style, that'll take a couple more years. If you want a different spread coach, we'd be downgrading as far as Rodriguez's offensive mind.
Just to be clear: I don't hate you. I don't even know you. You just annoy me at times, so I post about it. Just like how you post about how Rodriguez annoys you. We're not ganging up on you because we dislike you personally, it's because most people on this board disagree with your opinion that you feel inclined to share constantly.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:44 PM ^
But that's just like my opinion man...
November 25th, 2009 at 8:46 PM ^
I should not have spoken for you.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:32 PM ^
Obviously you have a "thing" for me bouje.
Sucks to be you. To have such a limited mental focus.
Myopic is the proper word for that condition.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:18 PM ^
I hate TomHagan too. Total tinfoil hat. Let's negbang him to hell.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:02 AM ^
You're an empty vessel.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:46 PM ^
thanks for posting my thoughts almost excactly! there are those who hated RR from the beginning and nothing short of a NC would have satisfied them. so it kinda makes you wonder if they really care about wins and losses as long as they like the coach. because if we go with a new coach we are doomed to more losing seasons while we change schemes and get in the right personal to run that scheme. also if you stick with the spread "who else is gonna be an upgrade from the guy most say invented it"?
November 26th, 2009 at 9:01 AM ^
be said for that Ke06 guy? His posts are so over the top enthusiastic it's ridiculous. We're gonna go 12-0! We'll be awesome next year! I'd say people who aren't either extreme are the least annoying. Too optimistic and too pessimistic is equally annoying.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:47 PM ^
"System" is not an excuse for anything, try and find a bigger transition than Paul Johnson's. He did just fine. The players have been terrible, that's the only tangible reason we have been bad the past two years. The only on-field struggles i put on the staff is the players diregard for a lot of fundamentals, but I guess it can be pretty easily reasoned to be because they're not a very good player, or are too young (Age isn't unprecidented to be the reason). I mean let's be real, the only players from this defense you'll find on a good unit are a Grahm, Martin, and Warren. GERG couldn't do anything with that, Nick Saban couldn't do anything with that, and no one here can tell me anything reasonable that they could have done to be better. Offense appears to have some scholarship athletes to plug in and grow now. Just need more defensive players and we can really judge Rodriguez.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:51 PM ^
I think you see things the way you would like them to be. His buyout from WVU was pretty standard and were it not for WVU's dramatics it probably would have been settled without much fanfare.
We know very little about the substance behind the NCAA investigation. The Freep did a very poor job of uncovering any hard facts and the recent reporting issue may very well be mostly an internal administrative oversight without any true consequence.
Offensively it is clear that he struggled to put his system in place last season but this season it became clear that we will be formidable on that side of the ball in the coming years. Defensively is the biggest question, but still too early to fire a head coach over.
It really seems to me that you were unhappy with the selection from the start and you look for any reason to justify your original opinion.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:13 AM ^
...when you post a lot b/c I get to negbang you some more. Please post often.
Moving on, I will quote you:
"Facts are facts, and this guy has failed miserably at his job at Michigan." This implies that Rich Rod failing is a fact. It isn't. That's your opinion.
"All aspects of on-field play." First of all, whether you believe this is not makes this an OPINION, not fact. Second, if on-field play is failing, then that is just as much the players' failure as it is the coaches. It is the players job to execute what the coaches instruct them to do. You're like a-hole parents who blame the teacher every time a kid fails a test. You know it is possible the kid's an idiot.
"(NCAA investigation and defaulting on that $3 million loan for example) show a man who is struggling with his personal life, as well as his professional life..." Once again, this is your OPINION. Yes, there's an investigation. This is b/c some claims were made by people NOT IN THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT OR ON THE FOOTBALL TEAM AND THE AD CONTACTED THE NCAA TO ASK THEM TO INVESTIGATE. This investigation, from all FACTUAL indications, is a mere formality. You know this, right? Or do you only pay attention to facts that suit your point of view? Do you watch Fox News perchance? And as for the real estate deal, it has been repeatedly reported in many outlets that Rodriguez (and others) had the rug pulled out from him and did nothing illegal or unethical.
You may disagree with this POV, but you DO deny the facts upon which people draw valid conclusions from, and your conclusions are not based on fact and are, indeed, invalid.
November 26th, 2009 at 9:04 AM ^
If not making a bowl two years in a row is not failing then I don't know what is.
November 26th, 2009 at 11:39 AM ^
I was with you until the low blow remark about Fox News. I pretty much always enjoy what you write but it seems that topic is a sensitive one and I would leave football talk seperate from political stuff. This is just my opinion and not fact, of course!
November 25th, 2009 at 8:41 PM ^
Tomhagen is the sort of fan that will jump back on the rr bus once he is on top. Shut the fuck up about firing rr who would you want as head coach, rr is the man for god sakes we had no depth on defense 4 d cordinators in 5 years give all this young talent rr has a chance.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:06 PM ^
I hope you have a crappy holiday, tomhagan.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:20 PM ^
This is just a poor article. He just combines his Michigan-alum wife saying "I'm already over Rich Rod" and the announcement that "Rich Rod and crew have failed to keep adequate logs of their players' hours spent on football" to as an excuse to do a whole bunch of legal talk about Michigan needing to fire Rodriguez now if they don't want to pay the buyout when all the violations come out. Never mind all the sane people people who want to see this through until Rich Rod has his program fully stocked with his players (including the administration), nor that fact that the practice logs problem was fixed and in no way indicate a violation. Apparently he's spent too much time in SEC-land to realize that there are other ways to deal with a football program besides firing any coach some fans don't like.
November 25th, 2009 at 9:27 PM ^
tomhagan is really Rosenberg?
November 25th, 2009 at 9:33 PM ^
lol...don't count on that one Wendy.
BTW, I enjoy your hamburgers very much.
:)
November 25th, 2009 at 9:34 PM ^
Friends,
The reality is that RichRod *isn't* going anywhere so Tom's incessant posting about it and people disagreeing/agreeing about it is kind of without merit. I am sure Tom likes the attention and 97 is a long ti... comment that that sort of fan will jump right back on when the team is winning again is 100 percent correct.
I see these guys where I sit all the time, bitching about every call, every series, every "missed assignment" how Bo would have done it better, how Jerry Hanlon would have coached em up better, how we haven't had a good QB since Leach. I know these fans and if they aren't TomHagen, well, hell they are probably his dad.
End of the day, RichRod's not moving on.
Tom will continue to post idiocy (basically the same limiting analysis in which he would, apparently, not give an incoming coach with a track record of success 4 years to implement his program with his recruits...). I imagine if M took that route we'd have a great shot at Brady Hoke (because nobody else with a track record would consider a school that runs you off without giving you a chance to implement your program).
Happy thanksgiving (American version)
November 25th, 2009 at 9:59 PM ^
most people who have opinions that few support are very defensive.
Fire RR the team gets better
Keep RR the team gets better quicker
How do you argue with his record at WVU?
If the great weis hope can win with some one elses players in his first 2 years why can RR lose with some one elses?
Ignore hagen and maybe he goes away
November 25th, 2009 at 10:18 PM ^
and time to field 50 questions from my non UM relatives about why we suck and when RR will be fired (will be in NJ). This is all they hear in the mainstream media - it amazing and astoundingly stupid and lazy reporting. There is no source material for any of it - simply one idiot saying it, another repeating it, etc.
Unfortunately it has gotten to the point where the casual reader picking up on a Michigan football opinion piece is left believing that RR is a universally recognized disaster and is on the cusp of being fired.
We have the right coach - when it all happens it will be beautiful and awesome.
November 25th, 2009 at 10:17 PM ^
We know that 98.7 percent of Mgoblog supports Rich Rod, so lets stop with these posts. These reporters get paid to, guess what, write stories, and then we pay attention to them which gives them more incentive to write another article. If nobody paid any attention to them, then the articles probably go away.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:37 PM ^
Unfortunately, we are going to have to endure many more of these articles over the offseason. Given our historic national stature and relative coaching stability over the past 1/3 of a century - as well as the fact that "hot seat" coach stories just seem to be a trend these days in the MSM - this is just something that we will have to endure. What I find most amusing about all of these "news articles" is that the authors are generally less informed the the average mgoblog member. Here's to hoping that RR is here for a long time, and that by next off-season, this is a non-issue.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:47 PM ^
You lost me at "RR fired"...
November 26th, 2009 at 12:01 AM ^
Bad reporting abounds in this case, but the article linked by the OP makes a few good points, IMO, without explicitly advocating RR’s dismissal. Basically the writer says that if Michigan is looking for an out, they potentially can save quite a bit of money by acting now.
“Are there really people out there dumb enough that they think M will be better off with a new coach?”
Perhaps only those who haven’t read the recruiting analyses on this site.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:35 AM ^
Short answer is yes. Apparently many enjoy posting.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:34 AM ^
...........................
November 26th, 2009 at 2:35 AM ^
i started reading when brian wrote for them but now that he's gone it is just one ridiculous piece after another over there. it seems like half the writers are domers (they have a piece called the daily domer). they just spew out tons and tons of mindless crap. i swear no one in there fact checks or reads anything other than headlines from espn.com
do not read fanhouse if you want reasonable, thought out writing
November 26th, 2009 at 3:43 AM ^
Bottom Line: Rich Rodriguez is "Dead Man Walking" personified. He is a Lame Duck Coach, who even if he is given another year (pending NCAA investigation results)...unless he somehow conjures up something truly spectacular in 10 (aka "The resurrection of Pat White in a Winged Helmet")... he is done, toast, gone, banished to Charlie Weis-Land... or more possibly to a smaller program on the level of Florida Atlantic, where he can work his "Barwis Magik" and Spread system to alternate between 7-5, "BCS Buster" odd year, and 5-7 (oops no talent to run his system) for ad-nauseam, until he retires fat and Rich at age 62, quite possibly to show his mug on whatever version of "College Game Day" exists in 2026... an entertaining studio guest he will be.
Until then, Michigan fans and alumni are left with this divisive and polarizing figure who half hate, and the other half blindly support despite the facts which show that he is failing miserably (yes 98% of Mgoblog may support RR but that is truly NOT an indicative slice of the total UM Football universe, but rather is a snapshot of a place-in-time workshop run by pro-RR types and supported by the "good ol boy" Mgo-Points system which aims to keep fresh ideas down, submerged below the "we are cool, young and enlightened with graphs and charts... so follow us" set that rules here).
Yes, Mgoblog-koolaid-drinkers.... there IS a Santa Claus....but Sadly for you, his name is not Rich Rodriguez.
This year...the real Santa will have to suffice, until New Blood gets in to the Football office at Schembechler Hall... and until that day comes (which you and I both know it will)... Rich Rod will serve to be the bumbling internet whipping boy for both national media and local media who are not dipping in to Kool-aid pedagoguery as defined by the current policy here... but rather are seeking something more in a Michigan football coach, a higher standard to the "aint' my fault" demagog who currently rules. NO, you will see that despite our disagreements... that the facts rely simply on the FACTS and not upon some misguided fantasy agenda of "what might be"....based on what happened several years ago at a school to the east in a weaker conference who happened to have 2 NFL calibur studs in the offensive background and a defense who was able to get by...
but Headlines and drama be damned....what will damn this guy is a) his shitty record on the field and b) the drama and issues off the field.
That much is to be certain.
This is Tom Hagan, the fearful's favourite whippin-boy...signing off...
Remember: Truths and Facts are what they are, so don't be afraid to draw your own conclusions from them, even if those conclusions draw a crack in the concrete of your own misconceptions....
In the end game, we all want the same thing really:
Michigan Football to get back to being Michigan Football.
Go Blue!
Happy Holidays!
Tom
November 26th, 2009 at 6:55 AM ^
You're smug, you're arrogant and you think that your opinion is right, unflawed and FACT.
Actual facts:
Lloyd Carr was never a head coach before coaching Michigan
RR IS a successful coach in many places
Which resume is better (yes I know Peter Principle and all that but I hated the "Let's hire him because he's a Michigan Man" mentality IMO Lloyd's resume should have never gotten him hired)
We've lost more players in the last 4 years (in %s) than Alabama and they are trying to get rid of players because they have to get below 85 scholarships (we on the other hand are below scholarship limits)
I'm not going to so anymore because I'm going to go back to bed but it pisses me off that you are so confident that RR will fail and now that he is our coach you should want him to succeed but I think that you'd rather him fail so that you can tell us "haha Tom Hagan was right! RR does suck! Worst coach ever!!! HAHA"
And in that case again you're a tool and the worst type of fan, the fan that thinks that he knows it all and votes for someone in elections because it's what everyone tells them too or because "well I vote democrat and he's got a d next to his name so I'll vote for him" without knowing anything about them, their platforms, ideals or anything. (Sorry for going political)
You are the un-informed voter and luckily you don't even have a vote in the "should RR stay or shiould he go vote". Also you probably thought that Coach B sucked too in his first year here and called for his head saying that he "eroded the program that Tommy A helped rebuild".
November 26th, 2009 at 9:17 AM ^
Not to take away from your rant but "the fan that thinks that he knows it all and votes for someone in elections because it's what everyone tells them too" that is exactly opposite of the way Tom Hagan has portrayed himself on this blog.
If anything, he would be the guy that votes for someone simply because everyone else is voting for the other guy.
I'm not picking sides in this fight because I make it a practice of not fighting losing battles but when you debate things one should try and constrain themself emotionally or their arguement tends to lose its validity. Your hatred of Tom caused you to do this.
As much as I disagree with his views, they are presented in an adult manner and he attempts to present them in an adult way. Yours very much resemble that of a child who has just had his favorite toy stolen from him. Saying things like "I hate Tom Hagan" and calling him names......That's just childish, no?
Anyway, I'm not trying to offend you as I, for the most part, enjoy your posts. I am just trying to give you an outsiders perspective of what your posts turn into when you are posting with/about Tom Hagan.
I Love RR and I Love Blue!!!