Queme las camisas rojas.
AnnArbor.com story on J.T Turner, secondary
after i translated this at google translate, i found it funny.
I found it funny that there actually was a Google Translate, and that I went there to translate the phrase, that was also funny. wait, what?
J.T. Turner practiced enough with the Michigan football team's first- and second-team defense last year that coaches thought about pulling his redshirt when injuries and poor play in the secondary began to mount.
“It was very tempting,” defensive backs coach Tony Gibson said Sunday. “But I think the best thing that could have happened, happened - keeping that redshirt.”
The best news I've heard all day.
is that this shows the coaching staff's patience and discipline. They are interested and focused on the long-term, not just the winning-right-here-right-now attitude. That is certainly the right mindset to be in when building a program.
Don't be too quick to bypass the spring game!
The season can come three weeks after that.
IMO, the season should not start until the following happen:
1. Tate Forcier is healthy
2. Vince Smith is healthy
3. Anyone else with injury issues (Molk/Martin) are healthy.
if that happens 3 weeks after the spring game, so be it!
not surprising that floyd is expected to start...woolfolk played deep safety against OSU and i doubt dorsey or christian are ready to start day 1
I really wish I could agree with you but I'm still very nervous about the youth of our secondary. I agree that Woolfolk will play well, but for the rest of the guys I'm not so sure they'll succeed right out of the gate. It just seems to me that playing well as a true or RS frosh is asking alot at this level.
I do believe in a few years our No Fly Zone is going to be downright scary, but I hope it happens quicker than I anticipate.
im not sure what your trying to get at here...idk what mike williams has to do with dorsey or cullen starting since they play completely different positions...
you even said you expect turner to start and floyd to be a nickel at worst, in response to me saying i expect floyd to start the season...so thats 2 CB spots right there and that means neither dorsey nor cullen would start...you cant have turner, floyd, woolfolk, and cullen/dorsey starting since none of them play box safety
yes but if and when dorsey does play safety, he will be at deep safety....our box safety is much like our spinner position...a safety thats lined up in the box for run support...our spinner position is a S/LB hybrid type position, but our box safety is very similar...
You mean like Marvin Robinson?
The secondary will be worse than last year
Are you basing this on? The fact that Floyd played well against Ohio State, or the fact that he will improve from last year?
OSU didn't burn us through the air. Part of that certainly has to do with accuracy issues from Terrelle Pryor. He missed a couple of open receivers on what would have been huge gains/TD passes.
Floyd also got burned during the Indiana game, and his problems were not instinctive problems but physical issues. He does not have great footspeed. If that improves DRAMATICALLY (which is not what you said), maybe.
But going from Warren/Woolfolk to Turner/Floyd would certainly be anything but optimal, although I guess having Troy at deep safety could be good. Still, if you want to act as if the OSU game means Floyd is ready to be a good corner, that's fine. I personally don't think he played that well and I think a more accurate quarterback could have made that secondary look a lot worse. Having Brandon Graham rushing and Warren on the other side didn't hurt.
Negbang me all you want, but I have nothing against Floyd. He seems to be a high level guy but if he starts at corner I don't think it would be a good sign.
Didn't mean it would have been a good sign to see him starting the year afterward
I wish. But I love the fact that they didn't throw Turner to the wolves just to stop the bleeding.
There's gonna be some tough expectations for this kid to fill, but on the other hand it's gonna be sweet to see that #2 lining up outside again.
“It was very tempting,” defensive backs coach Tony Gibson said Sunday. “But I think the best thing that could have happened, happened - keeping that redshirt.”
I think that the best thing that could have happened is that we could have won another game and made a bowl game. But that's just me.
im not so sure the best thing to do was put in a true freshmen CB on the hope that would be enough to win one more game over saving his RS and giving him a full year as a 5th year senior instead
D Warren was here for three years; if Turner lives up to expectations, I doubt that he will stay for 5.
but my point remains the same...whether its a full 5th year senior year, 4th year junior, or 3rd year sophmore...its an extra full year with a few years in the system compared to a few games as a true freshmen when the defense would still have huge holes in it..
Not really. He can stay for 4 years and leave as a RS Junior just like he could have stayed 4 years and left as a Senior without a redshirt.
but your assuming that he will leave after his RS junior year...and thats along with assuming that him playing for the first time in a college football game as a true freshmen would be good enough to win us another game...
i will definitely take the potential for a full year with 4 years experience behind him over a few games playing for the first time every time its offered to me
I didn't make the assumption that Michigan would have won another game with him. The quote said "the best thing that could have happened." That is what I was responding to; that isn't an assumption.
Also, I do think that he would be unlikely to stay 5 years if he lives up to expectations. It would be awesome if he does, but it isn't likley. If he plays well, he will start for the next 4 years, and probably won't have much else to prove at that point.
"It's possible Turner leaves early if he is a shutdown CB after his third year, but the fact that he is a true "Michigan Man" increases the likelihood of him staying until graduation."
This seems highly idealistic to me. Woodson was a "MichMan" yet he left after his Junya year. Also, this comment could be used to insinuate that you do not believe Long Beach (Warren) is a "MichMan" since he left after his junior year. The fact is if a player feels he is ready to play in the NFL, he will.
Woodson left because he was the "Fuckin Man". Turner can redshirt, win the Heisman, a national championship and leave early. That would be just fine.
If they thought he could have made the differnce between a win and a loss, they should have played him. If he's that good, he's not staying here five years anyway.
and dont see why it was negged. i dont know if one can simplify the wins or losses to a specific player (especially a CB) but if he could produce he should have played IME.
we're not talking about a three win season vs four win; this was the chance to play in a bowl game and probably takes a lot of heat off rr, gives the young guys extra practice, and shuts up people like me (for a little bit).
yes if he can produce he should play...but when your dealing with burning a redshirt you have to consider how much he would produce for you in the extra year he is getting vs. the few games as a true freshmen...
lets say he was really good for a true freshmen like roh was...the most we could realistic hope for in that case was for him to be a decent to pretty good player...would that have been enough to fix our defense? our LBs were really bad that let teams run at will on us, and we would still have one more huge liability at one safety position...im not sure turner would be THAT much better as a true freshmen than our other option as to enable us to win another game on that alone...as a matter of fact i wouldnt expect turner to play much better if better at all than floyd played against OSU
now lets take a look at what he could potentially do for us in a full season with 3 or 4 years of experience...he has potential to be one of the top corners in the country and i would damn sure think that someone would want potentially one of the top corners in the country for a full season rather than a true freshmen playing for the first time for 4 games...
13 games vs. 4 MAYBE 5 games
4 years experience vs. true freshmen
even if i was guaranteed that we would win 1 more game and go to a bowl if we burned his redshirt, i still wouldnt want them to do it...turner has the makings of being a HUGE part of a defense that could potentially help s to the rose bowl or NCG...in 2 years we arent going to eb thinking about how we didnt go to a bowl or how we went to the pizza crust bowl...would it have been nice to go to a bowl? sure, but i dont think the hope of maybe going to a low bowl is worth a full season in which we could compete for a BCS bowl
If Turner lives up to his hype and expectations there is no way he is here for a fifth year. Thus the redshirt was an absolute waste. Fact of the matter is he can now leave after his RS sophomore year which is three years after his HS class graduated and would be expected if he lives up to your expectations (one of the top CBs in the country).
IMHO, getting to a bowl last year would have been much more valuable then saving JTs RS. It would have given a extremely young team 15 more practices and gave them a taste of what the bowl experience is like leaving them hungry for more.
all of you keep saying.."if he lives up to his hype there is no way he stays for a fifth year"
i think its VERY likely he stays for a fifth year...every player thats good doesnt leave early...he would probably have to be a top 3 or maybe 4 CB as a junior for him to be prjected high enough for it to be a smart decision...even then he would be a late 1st or 2nd round pick, i would certainly expect him to come back to try and move up his stock...not to mention by then we might be at the point where we could be a NC contender the next season...you dont think he would stay if that were the case?
just because he's expected to be really good doesnt mean its a lock he'll leave early if he is...
and you dont think its worth giving up AT BEST a low bowl appearance for even the potential of having him as a 5th year senior and being a HUGE impact player on what could be a NC caliber defense?
i dont see whats so hard for you to understand about that...like i said earlier, we arent going to be sitting here 2 years from now thinking how great it was to get a 6th win and go to the pizza crust bowl...i think it would have been a waste to burn his redshirt as much as it would as to keep it on him and him leave early...because at most last year we would have been 6-6 and made a bad bowl appearance which is still bad by michigan standards..when RR would have at least taken a chance at getting what would have been one of the best defensive players in the country for a 5th year
There's no guarantee he would have been the difference against Illinois or Purdue, and the last two games were against Wisconsin and Ohio State, so the schedule got rough there at the end. He could have easily played, played okay, and we'd still have the same record. That could have happened, but for the future, moving forward, I'll take what we have. That's just me.
I think that the best thing that could have happened is that we could have won another game and made a bowl game.
It's very likely that three years from now, you'll be singing a different tune.
I wonder how definitive JT Floyd starting is at this point because I'm curious to see how the competition between Dorsey/Christian/Floyd goes during fall practice. It's still a relief to know that Turner was competitive enough in practice to have played last year. Hopefully with all this new depth (I'm scared to use that word this early on) we can keep all the DBs happy in the long run.
I didn't read that as he will "start" at corner so much as he will "start out" at corner. He will play corner initially bit a move to safety is possible.
Avery either. Kid has been "the man" leading his H.S. team since his Freshmen year at QB / CB. 4.0 student. Can't wait to see him in action..... He is my sleeper pick for the DB race coming up for 2010/2011.... ;-)
corners. He won't make us forget Woodson, but he will be the best we've had since, IMO.
What is your opinion based one?! We've had some really good corners since Woodson. If Turner reminds you of Marlin Jackson in a few years, is he a failure in your eyes?
As long as he doesn't remind us of Morgan Trent, then it's all good to me.
Morgan Trent made the Bengals as a 6th round draft pick and got a bunch of time his rookie season in a pretty good defensive backfield. I would say Morgan ended up being pretty good.
I would agree he did struggle his first couple of years at DB at Michigan.
I thought he did a decent job here, and the Bengals seem to think he is pretty good.
It was almost trendy to hate on Morgan Trent early in his career; by his senior year, if you go through the UFR's, he was a solid corner, and has done well at the next level given his draft position and his youth. He is a player that steadily improved year-to-year at Michigan. . . like I wish Obi and Jonas had from '08 to '09. Here's hoping for '10.
Have you ever heard of a player named Leon Hall?
Honestly leon hall was overrated. He was good but no shutdown corner or am i the only one who remembers him getting tooled on in the rose bowl.
First of all, I don't think that you define a career by one game. Second, I think a lot of players got "tooled" by Dewayne Jarrett, Mike Williams, and Kerry Colbert.
A few NFL GMs got tooled by those guys too.
And as for him getting "tooled" in the Rose Bowl, I do know that there were some deep plays that he appeared to get beat on, but I think we'd all agree that, without reading a UFR of the game or actually knowing what coverage M was in at the time (i.e., if he was supposed to have deep help over the top, what his assignment was on the play) it might be a bit of a leap to assume any time there was a big play and he was chasing it down, it was automatically his fault. Especially given the fact that he played a damn good corner for us all year.
How about Marlin Jackson?
Jackson attended the University of Michigan, where he was a team captain, an All-Big Ten selection, and an All-American for the Wolverines in both 2003 and 2004.
Jackson finished his career second all-time among Michigan players in pass breakups. During his senior year, opposing coaches and quarterbacks, concerned at Jackson's interception and pass break-up ability, threw less than 14% of their passes in his direction.
...he sure as hell won't make us forget about Woodson.
I think it's a little bit premature to say he'll be the best corner we've had since Woodson; the guy hasn't played a collegiate snap yet.
I don't think a lobotomy could make me forget Charles Woodson.
I could be 90-percent brain dead with only the Florida Congressional Delegation keeping me alive, and I'd still drool out impassioned responses to any dill-hole who 'volunteers' a question of Woodson's Heisman.
I can't wait until the Spring Game. JT and Toussaint should be fun to watch.
Awesome news, if he is as good as advertised he can take the number one spot at cornerback and leave Christian/Dorsey/Floyd to battle it out for the other one.
All your DB's named JT belong to us.
We also enjoy Demar's and Cullen's.
Worst news I've heard all day I'm really hoping Cullen/Demar/anyone else prevents that from happening
in the spring
I really don't know where the OP got that from. Here's all Gibson had to say with regard to Floyd.
“I really like J.T., like the way he learns and all the things that he can do,” Gibson said. “Played really well in the Ohio State game the last game of the year, so he’s a kid that we’re excited about and hopefully he’s going to be able to help us on defense and special teams. We’re going to put him at corner and go from there.”
I think it's clear he's talking about the position he sees Floyd at, not hinting he'll likely start. Also, don't be a dick.
But it's very discouraging to see all these big, talented recruits come in at corner and then have a guy with questionable footspeed go out there.
But yeah it doesn't sound like he's the starting corner so much as he is being tried out at corner first. I think he'd be a better safety though
I understand what you're saying. The 2010 cornerback recruits haven't even made it to campus yet and we haven't had the inevitable injuries, grade issues and whathaveyou that we'll see by Opening Day. It's possible the coaches even decide they prefer Floyd at safety during spring/fall practice. In short, we've got a long way to go.
with 10-15 yard cushions (please please no), otherwise, looking forward to JT Turner and other DBs dominating the back field.
We need speed at corner.
JT Floyd is a guy whose single deficiency is so glaring, I think we haven't been giving him credit for the good he did.
He had his young player trials early on, and yes, his speed is a major deficiency that will always make him a liability.
However, he is also a heady player who makes his tackles, hits hard, positions himself well, and in general just plays really really hard.
Before his off-field incidents, Cissoko, who's a lot more talented, was losing time to Floyd. He had some great play against slower receivers, and I would trust him to cover any non-NFL bound or speedy-smurf receiver.
I like guys who play hard and smart. I'm not calling J.T. Floyd a great cornerback. He's a liability overall. But I would like to see him get some credit for giving everything he's got every time he's on the field.
As for Turner, I'm very, very happy to hear the coaches were itching to put him in, i.e. his not-playing last year was not some sort of "well, he's not as good as Michael Williams" decision. Thanks for posting.
The problem is that most Big Ten receivers fall under the category of NFL-bound or speedy Smurf. They might not stick in the NFL, but OSU and Wisconsin and Penn State and Michigan State (and other schools, at a lesser rate) produce receivers who at least end up on practice squads and such.
I was encouraged by the statement that Floyd played well in the OSU game because it was hard for the TV audience to appreciate this. On one hand, he was burned deep pretty badly by Posey (at least once and maybe twice) and we were saved by Pryor's inability to throw a good deep ball. But on the other hand, Pryor did not have a great passing day and so the big question is (a) was it only due to Tressel's conservative play calling, or (b) was Floyd's coverage a factor in the results? If the latter, as the article suggests, then our secondary is even deeper than we thought because in most discussions of it on this board, Floyd is usually not mentioned (except as someone who better not see the field).
But I think it had a lot more to do with Tressel's playcalling, D-Warren, and Brandon Graham. Posey got behind him on multiple occasions.
Although our secondary might be pretty young except for Woolfolk, at least we have some numbers in the backfield. I really can't wait to hear about the competition that will take place over the spring and summer.
Good, young athletic players will give up a play here and there, though they'll also make their share as well.
I'll take good/young players, and I love the depth.