Angelique covers the Miles/RR/Carr/Leach issue again, and fairly as usual. Good quote from Andy Mignery about the necessity for all M supporters to for lack of a better phrase, be "all in."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091023/SPORTS0201/910230344/Michigan-no...
Also, sounds like Cissoko will see the field tomorrow, and RR had lunch with Carr and Martin yesterday. That should have been interesting.
It is too bad the BigTen
Great suggestion, Wildback..
I think I'll head on over to the BTN website and find the "contact us" icon. I wasn't aware that they were using Rosenpuke and Shyster as their "unbiased" sources.
It's a well known fact
That Angelique was very close to both Lloyd and Bo. But her professionalism shows as she has been extremely fair with RichRod. She is the best beat writer out there bar none.
One olive for that Martini....
Angelique still seems to love the program. Unlike many of the "old guard," she is giving RR a fair chance. And it is great that she acknowleged the frustration of many over Carr's silence.
It seems to me that Carr could put an end to all of the infighting with a simple "call for unity" speech. Since he is still getting paid for a rather cushy job, I really think it is incumbent upon him to do what is best for the University. All he would really have to do is to tell those who are upset that it does no good to sabotage the program, and to grow up and act like REAL MICHIGAN MEN. Bo would have done this in a heartbeat.
Carr's refusal to do so is why I think he is behind many of the "leaks" and much of the dissension in the athletic department. I'm sure part of him is still PO'd at RR for creating an offense that was responsible for some of his most painful losses at UM (NW x 2, The Horror, The Oregon Debacle, etc...) in the first place.
Carr is in no position to be silent and feign neutrality here. Basically, it boils down to an old but often true rabble-rousing phrase:
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
UM needs Carr to become part of the solution ASAP.
Lloyd is mad that RR runs the spread?
Uh, somehow I don't think that is really an issue with him. I can see him now, muttering "that damn spread!" whenever the subject of RR comes up.
"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite."
Think you've got this wrong
I fully believe Carr is behind RR. While we (the obsessive fans on the boards) want Carr to speak up, do you really think that's what RR wants? The less Carr says, the more this is RR's program. If daddy has to rescue son, it isn't a good thing. If Carr speaks up, it will be perceived as weakness on the part of RR.
Actually, I think the announced retirement of Bill Martin proves this point. Carr (& Martin, & RR) knew that there would be speculation on who would be candidates for the position. It was reasonable, helpful, and not a threat to RR for Carr to publicly announce he was not a candidate for the position. In other words, it was a necessary announcement by Carr.
My guess is that over lunch, Martin and Carr & RR have a good laugh, and RR knows that Carr has his back. I can easily imagine him saying, "if you need me to speak up, just let me know."
There's one other part to this. Carr can only speak up so many times before it dilutes his effectiveness. By holding his tongue, and not saying anything now, it will only strengthen his position and voice if and when it is truly needed. Imagine that we had a 6-6 season, and some were calling for the head of RR on a platter. Or imagine that the Freep or Stapleton or others really had RR over a barrel and in a tenuous position.
"It does not matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up." Vince Lombardi
Gimme a break
You look pretty good with that Tin Foil Hat on, bro
Help My Friend Allison Fight ALS
MSU/IU at the JCB
UM needs Carr to become part
UM needs Carr to become part of the solution ASAP
Rodriguez is the solution, and he's just doing fine. Carr speaking out now would only undermine him. That would be a problem, not a solution.
You've certainly been no stranger to conspiracy theories in the past. This type of comment coming from you is not surprising. While I would like to respond more fully, because there is so much wrong in what you say, it's simply not worth further wasting my time on your imaginary collusion wrought from nothing more than conjecture about a man of few words opting to enjoy his retirement.
Watch out for those black helicopters.
Recent recipient of the First Annual Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence
I'm torn on this
part of me doesn't like to see internal strife and dirty laundry aired in public like this. I wish it could just be resolved behind closed doors. On the other hand that doesn't seem to be happening and maybe this is exactly what is needed to kick everyone in the ass.
RR, Carr and Martin having lunch and Leach not calling back to get quoted both seem like good steps in the right direction.
Angelique on Drew&Mike
9:30ish according to drew
that lunch may get us a win
Maybe, at that lunch, Lloyd gave Rich a few tidbits on ol Joe Pa. Lloyd did own him, and this win would be a huge step forward for the program. Of course I read all the bits on how the two, Rich & Lloyd, may not get along.....but what if they did? Lloyd may have just turned the table in our favor vs PSU this weekend.
Angelique is fair, but she's also not fully informed
When she essentially states that the former players who wanted Miles don't support Rodriguez, she's simply not right. I do business with a former player under Bo who played with Miles, and he was one of those intensely disappointed that Les wasn't hired. Regardless, he's become a huge supporter of Rodriguez, and he says that many other alumni players of his generation are also supporters of RR. What Angelique doesn't seem to understand is that there is a divide among the different generation of UM alumni players regarding whether or not they're fans of Lloyd Carr or not. From what I gather in talking to this player, those who played for Carr love him, but many of those who preceded Carr seem to look on RR as a true continuation of Bo's legacy.
It's all unfortunate as hell, but I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of stuff goes on at all programs behind the scenes.
I know I generally criticize those who claim to know inside people without naming names, but in this case I have to do exactly that, since I can't speak for this player. He's got to do that himself if he chooses to. Neg me all you want.
All who played for Lloyd loved him
Apparently you have never talked with Amani Toomer.
Good job finding the
Good job finding the exception to the rule. Genius, I tell you.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
you think he is the only one?
I wonder how Brady truly feels about his time with Lloyd.
My point is that I'm sure you
My point is that I'm sure you can find a handful of players who disliked every coach in the history of the profession. Toomer's dislike of Carr doesn't mean that there aren't a legion of former players doggedly devoted to the man.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
part of the...
problem is that the free press thinks its a tabloid now instead of a paper. they are doing whatever it takes to sell papers now, and it all started with kwame scandal. they also think because of the FIOA that they have the right to drudge up any skeltons they can find about anyone or anything.
i used to read the free press every day because i was able to find out most info about u of m sports, until i found this blog. then all of a sudden after the new year free press went off of the deep end and i was reading less and less every day and then fianlly stopped after what happened at the end of august.
the detroit news is playing "good cop" in this entire thing, with exception of terry foster. foster has become a complete ass hat in the last 6 months and i don't know if he is doing to keep his job at the news, trying to keep listeners for his and mikes show, or because he has been working with mike for so long now.
either way its not going to end unless rich rod closes up shop at schembechler hall, until that happens we are going to continue to have shit articles written.
It will end when we win consistently and beat OSU
If RR manages to get the team truly competitive within the conference and nationally, the sniping will disappear.
Interesting
I believe the headline is overblown, and the reference to Miles supporters to be too much a generalization.
That said, the mention of Lloyd, Bill and Rich having lunch, and Lloyd advising Rich on how to beat Jo Pa is probably all we're goign to get from Lloyd on his support for the team.
I am in the camp of Lloyd publically speaking out would do a lot to stop the antics. However, we all know that Lloyd Carr would have much rather had a weekly root canal, than go talk to the press. Thus the off hand mention of the lunch. I would hope Lloyd is doing some behind the scenes "management" of the football family base as well.
It is interesting that at least some of Bo's players feel that Rich is the continuation of Bo's legacy more so than Lloyd Carr. Many of us have been arguing the comparison to when Bo took over since Rich came in. Then there is the run heavy option offense Bo ran up until '84. (We'll see more run heavy when Denard or Gardner get up to speed.)
Maybe we need to start working Rick Leach and Steve Smith's stats (passing and rushing) into the QB comparisons.
Overblown headlines
are what sell newspapers these days. If the Freep is starting to look like a tabloid, it's because that is what they have to do to survive- and they are not alone in doing this. After all, it got us talking, didn't it?
Lunch?
No way. Didnt happen Until Lloyd Carr comes out and publicly addresses the fact that they went to lunch, what was ordered and that he admits he picked up the tab, then I will not believe this meeting took place.
Silence speaks volumes. No presser detailing lunch menas no lunch.
Lloyd continues to kill this program. He only won a title becuase he inherited Bo's team. He's running a shadow government out of Ypsilanti and its been his plan all these 26 years to tear down the univeristy.
Help My Friend Allison Fight ALS
MSU/IU at the JCB
the funny thing is
that lloyd is widely to be considered a huge factor in preventing Miles from coming to M. So which camp is he in?
I think there are actually several camps. Yes there are many who would have preferred Miles, and there are many old timers who irrationally hate Rod (I know several blue hairs in Chicago who cant stand him for no good reason) but they're not the main ones causing problems for Rich Rod.
If the rumblings around this board are to be believed, it is the Carr cronies and Ron English cronies -- the "shadow government in Ypsi" -- not Carr himself that is fueling the dissention.
our package is our package, and it’s pretty big. - Greg Mattison, Bowl Practice Presser Tr. 12-13-11.
"Carr's reluctance to do
"Carr's reluctance to do interviews since Rodriguez's hire has drawn the ire of some fans -- and former players -- who wonder why he hasn't vocally supported the new coach and his staff. His silence, to some, is baffling."
This is shocking!!!! Especially odd given Lloyd's abundance of interviews and general friendliness towards the media when he was the head coach.
I get this, but still. What
I get this, but still. What about Lloyd issuing a press release where he says, essentially,
"I have been a coach, employee, and fan of Michigan for xx years. You cannot find a stronger supporter of Michigan athletics than I am. I fully support Coach Rodriguez and any insinuation that I do not is a personal insult to me. To all fans, former players, and members of the media: stop stirring up pointless controversy. I am, always have been, and always will be, all in for Michigan."
Honestly, would that be so hard? The fact that he has completely silent on the issue is a bit troubling to me. If there's anything I've learned in my 25 years in electoral politics*, it's that ignoring a story never works.
* Plus or minus 25 years.
Because Carr understands that
Because Carr understands that the more people talk about people not supporting Rich Rodriguez, the more it's going to be in the fucking paper. This is a man that watched the media destroy his friend (Moeller), and made a concious decision a long time ago to not give them a single workable tidbit of information.
wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog
Exactly,
Dan Snyder's "endorsement" of Jim Zorn or Jerry Jones' "support" for Wade Phillips hasn't made those issues go away; if anything it fuels further speculation.
Lloyd Carr doesn't need to say anything.
Taking it one week at a time
Agree to disagree, but I
Agree to disagree, but I totally disagree with this reasoning. I was joking about my experience with politics, but I think you have it totally backwards that silence defuses speculation. In this case, I think silence is generating the speculation.
I don't disagree with you,
I don't disagree with you, but it's not Lloyd Carr. I'm sure that his favorite part about not being head coach is not having to talk to the media. The guy avoided the media like the plague.
FWIW I heard Lloyd talk on a
FWIW I heard Lloyd talk on a radio show prior to the 2008 season about how he's excited to see the spread offense.
go blue go
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Facebook page: Rich Rod Hope Shirt
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STOP
Stop trying to peddle your stupid shirts here. You've posted in a bajillion threads about them. They're a decent shirt, a fun idea, but now part of me hopes someone sues the shit out of you. Not that they would win, I have no idea how that shit works. But I hope you have to pay to deal with the lawsuit.
I put up a tough front, but deep down I just want to be held.
Naming Win
You would complain about shirts, "OMG Shirtless". Clearly we know your stance on shirts vs. no shirts.
Seriously though, those shirts have moved from being semi creative to annoying as hell.
Oh, the infighting!!!
First, its the pro-Les vs. pro-Rod factions, now the shirtless vs. the bull-shirter. What's next the urinal vs. the troughers? Can't we all just get along together? Let's Go Blue!
Taking it one week at a time
The mere existence of this story...
The mere existence of Angelique Chengelis' story is what bothers me. The story exists only because Lloyd Carr hasn't performed the simple expediency of saying that, as Michigan's Senior Associate Athletic Director, he's "All In for Rich Rodriguez." Bill Martin did so as Athletic Director; Lloyd Carr should do the same as Senior Associate Athletic Director. Period. Or he should resign his position within the Martin-led Athletic Department.
Bill Martin didn't "have to" make a statement to the press about the Free Prees v. Rodriguez. But he did.
Lloyd Carr doesn't "have to" make a statement to the press about the Free Press v. Rodriguez. But he should.
Lloyd didn't have to kill the very low-level and unimportant rumors that he'd be a candidate to replace Bill Martin as AD. But he did it anyway, and he did it fast. Lloyd's having quickly and conclusively quashed that rumor just made me (and others, apparently) think, "Well, Lloyd, why not also quickly kill any rumors as to dissention concerning Rodriguez?"
And this is the part that really, really gets me. At a fundamental level, the Michael Rosenberg Jihad thesis is this: That off the field, Michigan Football has drastically changed, for the worse, under Rodriguez. And that it was better under Carr. That's Rosenberg's clearly-implicit message. Well, damn it, Carr needs to address that. I don't really care if Lloyd has different opinions on some things from Rich Rodriguez. But I don't see how it is, that any Michigan Man can take Rosenberg's side, when clearly the Freep reporting methods were and are so thuggish. This is a case in which "silence" is not neutrality, but rather is adding fuel to a fire.
Lloyd, I have all the respect in the world for you, but you should have stepped up on that. You have disappointed me, on that one thing.
As for Rick Leach; you just gotta love him. He's all heart and soul. But Ricky, you need better counsel. You've always needed some counsel, since you left Bo's supervision. The notion that Lloyd Carr was some kind of traitor, to have been the game-day guest of Iowa's Athletic Depratment is really silly. That allegation should never have been made. It defies about 70 years of close inter-connectedness between the Iowa and Michigan Athletic Department administrations. [I had the thought that if somebody wanted absolute proof that Lloyd Carr was NOT trying to undermine Rich Rodriguez, and was NOT trying to steal Kirk Ferentz away from Iowa to come to Michigan, then Lloyd's status as an honored guest of the Iowa Athletic Department is pretty solid proof that no such conspiracy exists...]
Memo to Rick Leach and Ron Simpkins:
Please consider this line next time you receive a call from a reporter or redio show host:
"Carr declined a request to be interviewed."
When did your mother let you out of the basement Mr. Rosenberg?
It is too bad the BigTen Network talks to Snyder and Rosenberg instead of Angelique for their calls around to the media of the league.
Perhaps we need to request a change.