For all the pain - we had a good season
We lost to the #1 team in the Nation – on the road at Notre Dame 13-6.
We lost to the National Champs on the road.
We lost to the Big Ten Champs on the road.
We went up against and undefeated Ohio team on the road without our starting QB and RB. Lost by 5.
I am proud of our season.
November 25th, 2012 at 10:30 AM ^
That is exactly what I was telling you.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:14 AM ^
Proud of the team..We should be pretty damn good next year
November 25th, 2012 at 12:21 AM ^
So what you're saying is we lost to every team that was worth a damn and you're proud of that. I'll agree with one of those two points. ND- 7 turnovers, Neb- No QB, ohio- Urban Meyer calling plays for our offense.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:22 AM ^
This was a mediocre season. I think I am going to make my prediction for the next eight years, as long as the schedule stays reasonably close to what it is now: 8-4 on the even years when the tough games are on the road, and 10-2 for the years the tough games are at home.
That averages out to 9-3. That would be great for Illinois or Indiana, but it is mediocre for the "leaders and best." Sadly, that is what the masses, or at least the ones with the most money, "voted for."
The main problem is that not enough Michigan fans, donors, or trustees have enough patience for Michigan to be able to go to the spread offense. Everyone gets their panties in a wad so badly during the adjustment years that nobody is going to be able to successfully retool the team.
The Brian Kelly soundbite on ESPN is correct, even though it leads to an obvious joke/interpretation: "The game is played in space now." And we now get to watch two of our three most hated rivals play the game the way it is played in this century, and go undefeated during the regular season.
There are two more games left against ND, and at least one game with Ohio every season. Unless Al Borges is given permission to concentrate more on using creativity to score points and less on showing everyone how "tough" Michigan is, it could get really shitty for the rest of this decade.
I don't know about anyone else here, but that is definitely not what I want to see. We aren't ever going to see a spread option, but allowing Borges to use a lot of spread formations within the WCO would be a great compromise. The problem, though, is that with every loss, too many "fans" would bitch that they didn't play manball.
I never bought into the bullshit about the kids from 2008-2010 not being tough. On the contrary, they gave more effort and got less in return than any players in Michigan history. The players in the maize and blue are already tough. Now, it's time to give them a contemporary offense and a chance to win.
Al Borges is more than capable, but the handcuffs have to come off. Since Brady Hoke was hired to play manball, someone is going to have to tell Hoke that it's OK to have a more contemporary offense: his initials are "DB."
November 25th, 2012 at 12:30 AM ^
I guess alabama isn't any good since they don't run the spread offense.
2 national championships in 3 years and a 36-4 record. Plus a shot at another MNCG.
Give me a break.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:31 AM ^
Bama and Stanford are having plenty of success doing things in a more old fashioned manner. The problem is that we've been doing neither the last two years. We run one "spread" running play with any regularity and aren't even great on the read on that one. The more conventional running game's failures we're all familiar with. You don't get good at running read-option plays by practicing ISO and power from the I-formation or vice-versa.
Oh, and our quarterback and running back got hurt. That is kind of an issue people seem quick to gloss over just because Devin Gardner had a few nice games against crappy defenses.
You don't have to have a specific identity but you do have to have an identity. Hopefully next year we see a team that has one.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:35 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 2:19 AM ^
DB and the powers that be embody some sort of control over every detail down to the very plays that are called.
I have heard whispers like that in the past (former players) that there is some kind of powerful alumni force behind everything.
I certainly hope and don't think that's the case. I can tell you that when I was in close quarters with Loeffler, DeBord, Carr, etc. they weren't backing down from calling plays or discussing what Bill Martin or the alumni would think of their play calling.
OTOH, Carr did plow through two OC's within a few years.
But if you know something that we all don't, thank you for sharing. I hope you are wrong.
I see it as a lot of misfortune. We could have had Brian Kelly, but Brian Kelly is an asshole, so not everyone wants him here.
Would I have taken the good with the bad on him? Probably.
But you never know with that guy. He strikes me as about as loyal as a shark in a feeding frenzy.
If an NFL team came calling, who's to say he wouldn't bolt?
It's extremely bad luck that Urban happened on a personal crisis/meltdown and decided to come back exactly when OSU had a vacancy. He is arguably/on route to becoming the most successful coach in the history of the game (depending on your determining factors).
Things certainly don't like good in respect to our rivals right now... but, then sometimes the unpredictable happens.
In the back of my mind, I saw us on the downside of our main rivalries when Kelly and Meyer came into the picture. What a shitty gut feeling to have.
November 25th, 2012 at 2:42 AM ^
As others have pointed out, there are a couple of teams out there (Alabama, Stanford, etc.) doing some nice things with a more traditional offense. It can be done.
I really don't understand what it is you wanted. Michigan tried a spread coach. In his third year on the job, the team went 3-5 in B1G play with wins over Purdue, Indiana, and Illinois. In the other games we lost 1290834E11 - 46, and then in our bowl game against that "up and coming" Mississippi State squad it actually got worse. But according to you the magic spread was just all of a sudden going to "click" and fix everything? Or maybe there was another spread coach out there you wanted?
Your predictions a decade into the future are worthless. This coaching staff did not have the personnel it was used to when it came in, and yet they've managed to go 19-6. Let's please see what they can do next year before you get all up in arms. That being said, Al Borges is 100% on the hot seat at this point.
November 25th, 2012 at 8:34 AM ^
Tater, I liked your remarks about "toughness," which I find stupid on the level of "HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE RIVALRY!!!"
But, as others have noted, Manball-intensive offenses can be very successful.
What we should avoid here is a false dichotomy (all Spread / all Manball). No reason they can't be mixed ...
November 25th, 2012 at 12:26 AM ^
Season isn't over yet. I'll talk about the season in past tense when in fact it is. Got a pretty important bowl game and a chance to pull our all-time bowl record to .500
November 25th, 2012 at 9:10 AM ^
Beating Georgia, LSU, or A&M would be awesome going into next year.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:27 AM ^
Yes, I know we played a nationally tough schedule (finally). I know we had tough road losses to stud teams in Alabama, ND and OSU, forgetting the Nebraska game. Our seniors showed plenty of character, and even guys who had been immature grew up and worked hard, so there is that.
Four losses? Let's not tout that for being a very good season. Let's say this: Our team has great potential, as many other teams do. Now, it's up to us to work extremely hard to correct this season's mistakes. Unfortunately, we lose some valuable folks. That having been said, we'll get some good new faces in here.
There are a lot of things that need to be addressed. Let's work hard and address them. We can win big if we reacher higher and work harder. Hats off to our opponents. No trash talk, just plain old hard work!
GO BLUE!
November 25th, 2012 at 12:30 AM ^
1996 Michigan lost 3 regular sesaon games and bowl game.....1997......
November 25th, 2012 at 12:36 AM ^
In just his third season at ND, Brian Kelly is taking his team to the national championship game. Do you really see that happening for Michigan in 2013; in Hoke's third season? With what he has coming back?
November 25th, 2012 at 12:50 AM ^
ND has been stacked with talent for years. Kelley was able to finally make you of that talent. Hoke needs to build up our talent and depth to make us a great team again. I think he will come 2014-15 seasons and beyond!
November 25th, 2012 at 12:53 AM ^
Did you see that happening at ND?
November 25th, 2012 at 8:53 AM ^
Nobody saw that for ND either.
November 25th, 2012 at 10:05 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 12:31 AM ^
Getting beaten by Ala, ND and OSU are moral victories? What then is barely eking out wins against MSU and N'western? This team could just as easily be 6-6 as it could be 10-2.
Another year. SOS. Losing to OSU. Not in any championship hunt. I'm tired of this. The last time UM beat OSU two years in a row, Devin Gardner was a nine year old fourth grader.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:32 AM ^
I am proud of the players for their work and effort but absolutely not proud of this season. Coaching cost us multiple games this season and thats unacceptable, B10 championship was a gift this season and we couldn't do it. Its sad that as fans of an Elite school were proud of 8-4.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:33 AM ^
It's not the system. It's the players in that system. Yes, the game is speeding up, but any offensive philosophy can win a national title. Evan one as conservative as Iowa's. What it comes down to is the players and how well coached they are.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:33 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 8:02 AM ^
it made about as much sense as half the posts on here anyhow.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:33 AM ^
I know people always try to put a positive spin on every season. Fact is i though this team would go 9-3. I didnt think they had a chance against Bama n i thought there were four toss-up games. MSU, ND, Huskers, Ohio. I though they would go 2-2 in those 4 games they didnt. I dont think the season was a total fail but u have to remeber we are still recovering form the whole RichRod mess. We won 11 games last year and we assumed the worst was over and it was happy sailing. Fact is were not there yet. I just want to say patience, recruiting and the ability of the coaching staff inspires me for future success. I know Borges screwed up in this game still pisses me off but we just need to be patient. Hopefully we bounce back next season with a 10 win season with a favorable schedule and i would judge the coaching staff on the 2014 season. I think by than the coaching staff will have established the team they want to be and we will be a chamionship team again. Just be pateint and dont jump to conclusions. Some guy called in today saying we should fire Hoke!! Dont be that guy
November 25th, 2012 at 12:43 AM ^
The fact is our fans have short memories. This team is 19-6 the last two years. The team was 20-5 when TOM BRADY was an upperclassmen at quarterback. And he didn't miss the second half of his senior year due to injury and we didn't lose a game because Drew Henson was playing WR and couldn't help out at QB. We were 19-5 during Desmond Howard's last two years here.
This is as good as it has been in your lifetime outside of 1997 and the 1970's (if you don't count games against good teams from other parts of the country).
November 25th, 2012 at 8:42 AM ^
"This is as good as it has been in your lifetime outside of 1997 and the 1970's (if you don't count games against good teams from other parts of the country)."
How dare you mess with the heads of Old (and Young) Blues who've been remembering a time that never existed!
What exactly are they remembering?
* Michigan was tough. T-O-U-G-H.
* Coaches understood our big rivalries. (I thought Hoke understood the OSU and ND rivalries, but I guess I was wrong. At least he now seems to understand the MSU rivalry.)
* We ran the ball down the throat of opposing teams and got three yards whenever we needed. None of that pussy passing game.
* We didn't care about playing "in space." We put ten guys on the line and snapped the ball directly to our big hoss of a running back.
* On the other side of the ball, we STOPPED THE RUN.
* We never lost any games.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:34 AM ^
Our best win was against Northwestern. If we had beaten ND or Bama, ND and Bama wouldn't have been #1-2. I'm still pissed Hoke didn't have a backup QB ready for Nebraska. Hoke did not excrete gold this year and for $2M, it just wasn't good enough for Michigan standards.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:35 AM ^
From where I sit, I think we lost to everyone that I was worried about, with the exception of Michigan State, and they turned out to be awful. We might have given it a good fight, but we're far from where we need to be.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:35 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 12:36 AM ^
but we lost four games this year, and those four teams combined for a 45-3 record. We were very close in two of those, and another was decided by an injury early. Not really a fan of "moral victories" and whatnot, but I don't think 8-4 really tells the story of this regular season.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:51 AM ^
That may be but the teams Michigan beat this year were:
Air Force 6-6 (close game)
UMass 1-11
Purdue 6-6
Illinois 2-10
MSU 6-6 (close game)
Minnesota 6-6
Northwestern 9-3 (close game)
Iowa 4-8
I would say that 8-4 does tell the story. Michigan beat up on average teams but could not beat the good teams.
November 25th, 2012 at 1:18 AM ^
Beating bad teams, losing to good ones. It is the identity that Georgia has had in the ESS EEE SEE for the longest time. It's actually worse for them because their recruiting classes should be worth more than the results they've been getting on the field.
Hoke is starting to recruit that well...hopefully he'll get a better return on his classes than Mark Richt has in Athens.
I do agree that this team has an identity crisis, though. One of the complaints people had with RichRod was that he was trying to run his offense without compromise using (what was left of) Lloyd Carr's talent. Hoke and Borges seem to be doing the same thing, but the results are significantly better. Last year spoiled us a bit. Next year will be better, assuming our recruits aren't all defecting to Columbus or South Bend by the time spring practice begins.
November 25th, 2012 at 11:57 AM ^
was that M didn't play "good" teams. The schedule was eight games M was favored to win in varying fashions, and then four teams in nationally elite positions at the end of the season.
Nebraska is the closest to good, but Bellomy v. UNL Defense might as well have been Denard v. Alabama. Had we played Wisconsin or PSU or even the top couple ACC teams or USC or someone, that likely would have been a good win. In other words, the schedule was split between bad teams and really, really good teams.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:37 AM ^
They were right on target for what I and most projected as a season record. My biggest disappointment was the weak OL play. For much of the season our OL has been handled by opposing D lines during running plays. I'm not sure if it was lack of talent beside Taylor or just losing a veteran center Molk? But this will have to change. We need to dominate the line of scrimmage again!
The defense played a lot of bend but do not break. The secondary played well.
Hopefully we'll beat OSU next season at home.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:47 AM ^
I guess the younger generation is into moral victories. I remember when Michigan was the team you played and said oh well at least we played them tough, but they are just better than us. So what we played 3 real good teams and lost to them all. That is what every other mediocre team would have done. I expect to at least have one marquee win...This year was a disappointment plain and simple. I love the guys we have on our team, but the results just weren't there. This is Michigan fergodsakes.
November 25th, 2012 at 1:05 AM ^
J/k get better soon coach
November 25th, 2012 at 11:45 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 12:53 AM ^
We failed to produce a quality backup QB when we needed one most.
We lost to what is now the #1 team in the country by a single touchdown, a game we could have won were it not for 6 turnovers. I love Denard, but that performance was inexcusable. 6 fucking turnovers. Just thinking about it infuriates me.
We did not beat Ohio State. Borges' play calling in the 2nd half was pathetic at best.
We did not win a championship. No Rose Bowl.
November 25th, 2012 at 1:05 AM ^
We failed to produce a quality backup QB when we needed one most.We can thank one Mr. Darryl Stonum for that one. His final scrape with the law cost him, and us, dearly. Add this one player to the team and this is probably a Big Ten champion.
November 25th, 2012 at 1:06 AM ^
Overall, the season was a bust. Michigan lost 4 games. All to quality opponents. We lost 2 out of 3 rivalry games. The bright spot was a win over Michigan State. This was a difficult schedule and I suspect OSU would have achieved the same record if they played this type of schedule. Michigan had no running game outside of Denard for the majority of the year and our offensive line didn't improve at all. Still, I can't wait to see the team play in a bowl game and gain victory. I believe better things are in store for 2013.
November 25th, 2012 at 1:07 AM ^
We get one more chance against a quality opponent in our bowl game but that's likely to be a team much better than us at the moment.
I just don't see how that qualifies as a good season
November 25th, 2012 at 1:22 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 11:48 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 1:22 AM ^
Michigan played six games against pretty good to great opponents. We went 2-4 against them.
Alabama was a blowout; it made us look like high-ranked frauds. We went 1-2 against our biggest rivals, and while beating very good ND and OSU teams on the road is certainly difficult, if we don't expect Michigan to win some difficult games, what are we? We really never came that close in the end of either of those games. Also, the Nebraska loss (w/ its QB follies in the 2nd half) was a debacle.
On the flip side, we needed a miracle bomb to get in position to beat Northwestern and a last-second FG (not to mention a great scramble, throw & catch by Denard/Dileo right before it) to beat MSU. We were much closer to going 6-6 than we were 10-2.
But we went 8-4 and I am glad we didn't blow a game against a decent team like Air Force (which Michigan has done in the past) and blew out the bad teams we should (e.g., Iowa, Illinois). But this team had the talent/experience to go at least 9-3 and they didn't get it done. In particular the OL play was MUCH worse than I had hoped (I was only worried about our lack depth; our lack of production/skill with the starters was the problem); same with the RBs. Denard also regressed and while Devin was awesome his first 3 games, he frankly (If understandably) didn't play well against OSU.
It's not a terrible season and this team gave strong effort all year, and they should be proud of it. But don't tell me 8-4, in a year the Big 10 is just horrendous, is a "good" season. This 12-0 OSU team would get beat soundly by their 1995 or 1996 teams that were undefeated until we beat them.
November 25th, 2012 at 2:02 AM ^
I agree that this wasn't a "good" season, but I don't think we underachieved, either. Basically, we took away Molk, Martin, Hemingway, RVB, Koger, and Countess from the 2011 team, did not add Stonum as expected, and then lost Denard as a functional QB for the final 4.5 games of the season. We didn't have a lot of breakthrough players (Ryan, Funchess, Clark, maybe Taylor) and played a very tough road schedule. 8-4 was right about where we should have finished. 9-3 or better would have constituted overachievement.
November 25th, 2012 at 12:17 PM ^
I think 9-3 was a very reasonable expectation. I agree we lost significant players from 2011, but we also gained quite a bit (Jake Ryan, Frank Clark et al with more experience; a large % of the offense, including the QB, coming back in their 2nd year in the same system).
We literally beat everyone who we were "supposed" to beat, lost to who we were "supposed" to lose to, and then lost the "toss-up" game to Nebraska. If we had won any one of the 4 games we lost, it would have been a good season (and all except Alabama were definitely in the realm of possibility with better plays/playcalling). But I watched Nebraska against OSU, MSU and Iowa - they are a good team, but nothing remotely special. Whether Nebraska or Wisconsin wins, it will be the worst Big 10 champion in our lifetime.
Ultimately, blowing that game, and our coaches being caught with their pants down, was what made it an underachieving season for me.
November 25th, 2012 at 2:36 AM ^
November 25th, 2012 at 3:01 AM ^
This is ridiculous... We go 8-4 and you are already jumping off the ledge? This coaching staff worked miracles with the defense, and got some bad breaks this year. They deserve better than to have these sorts of attacks lodged at them at this point.