Ugh. I just want to be happy.
But we can't always have what we want.
A married woman wants a girlfriend? What?
Has been lacking lately.
...and be careful what you ask for. ;o
Agree. Going into this said I would be happy with a tie. This was the worst kind but still a tie
-________________- so close! Anyone have a quick thing about scenarios?
See page 50.
5.) The ranking of each team in each group shall be determined as follows:
a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches
If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings shall be determined as follows:
e) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;
f) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;
g) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;
h) FIFA rock-scissors-paper equivalent
The dangerous outcome is for Ghana to beat Portugal while the US loses. In that event, the best the US can do is to tie Ghana on b) if the US loses by only one and Ghana wins by only one, Then, dropping to c) the US would advance if it scores the same or more goals than Ghana in the final game. Ghana would advance if it scores two or more goals than the US in the final game. If Ghana scores exactly one more goal than the US, then the tiebreaker would fall to d), which the US wins.
GO USA! Go Portugal!
US has a 76% chance of advancing according to Nate Silver.
hasn't watched the US defense.
In all honesty what's that based on? If Germany wants to score 4, don't you think they can do it? I do.
And no to the second part. If that was the case, why didn't they beat Ghana?
Fuck those that wanted that Ghana/Germany draw
I am pretty sure that Klinsmann and Low can negotiate a draw that will send both teams through... they can even do it in German
Not saying they'll completely mail it in, but both teams know they go through with a draw. There's no need for either side to take big risks on offense, and they're smart enough to know that. I wouldn't at all be surprised by a 0-0 draw.
Not long ago, in a Euro Cup (I think) there was a game between Sweden and Denmark in which a 2-2 draw guaranteed both teams to advance... the game ended 2-2.
You are aware this has been done before? Germany-Austria 1982 at the expense of Algeria.
Here ya go...
A draw with Germany guarantees we are in.
A loss with a Portugal-Ghana draw, and we are in.
A loss with a Portugal win, and we are probably in.
A loss with a Ghana win, and things are a bit hairy, but we may still be in.
And right now, that last bit looks the most likely
a loss with a portugal win wouldn't be a probable advancement. if germany wins on a three goal difference, and portugal wins on a two goal difference then we are out.
So you're saying it's NOT probable that Portugal does NOT make up a 5 goal differential?
portugal doesn't have to win 5-0 against ghana if germany beats us by a healthy margin. which is the scenario i was commenting on. germany beats us, portugal beats ghana does not mean we probably move on. it would be the results of the match. if germany shuts us out, and scores two or three goals, and portugal wins against ghana with enough of a goal difference to get even with us. then we are out.
try and pay attention.
Uh I think you may need to be the one that pays attention. Although possible, it is not probable to make up a 5 GD
That's still an awful lot of goals to make up. If I'm the US I'm a lot more worried about Ghana.
A win against Germany also guarantees we are in. I believe!
If we lose by 1 goal to Germany and Ghana beats Portugal by 1 goal we go to 2nd tiebreaker which would require us to score a lot of goals vs Germany. Which is not something we will be counting on. Basically a win of any sort of Ghana takes us out if we lose to Germany. A blowout by Portugal would also cause issues but I just don't see any way that happens.
I think a negotiated settlement between JK and the Germanys is the best solution for all parties involved :). Germans like clean solutions - let's do it.
when I want it, all the time.
And I'm not trying to make some sort of philosophical point here. I'm venting like a toddler that had his candy taken away.
I want it back.
When I was younger my dad would always say "ties" are like kissing your sister. I don't wanna kiss my sister...
Assuming your sister is hot
a draw when coming from behind, and you are facing being knocked out of the group stages... amazing.
a draw when you were up by one goal, and are on the verge of advancing to the knock out stages... heart wrenching.
here's hoping that portugal either draws with or beats ghana by less than a four goal difference, and germany doesn't absolutely destroy us.
was down five players and Ronaldo wasn't at full strength. A draw is rather disappointing especially with a spot in the next round guaranteed.
like i said. disapointing for us. amazing for them.
Henri, you bastard otter, you...
Germany is a must win/tie. If we lose to them by more than 1 goal, and Ghana beats Portugal, we're out.
I don't have a lot of faith in our defense to contain the Germans right now.
That game will be way more fun to watch than USA vs Germany. Both Ghana and Portugal need a win, and Portugal need like 30 goals. It'll be fireworks compared to the camping fest of ours.
if portugal/ghana is a draw then yes we are in. portugal could still sneak past us depending on how the matches play out thursday.
like others however i'm betting my sweet cheeks that klinsmann is negotiating a draw with germany right now. even though they really have nothing to lose at this point with a +4 goal difference. i doubt they want to take off chance at drama.
What's the over/under on goals we give up against Germany? 3? They have guys that can put it in the back of the net . . often.
Our D sucks and it's sucked since 1990. Only Howard keeps us competitive.
aside from one major blunder, and a bit of last second magic against portugal our defense has played lights out this WC.
awe. someone is mad that i disagree with their illogical assesments. people that don't understand a game, and then make ridiculous statements like "our defense sucks" make's me giggle.
memorable sporting events IMO. Sigh.
We gave up the latest regulation time goal in WC history: 94':32''
we're still tied for first, until we get annhilated by Germany. Sorry for being the voice of reason, but the U.S. is done. Not a chance in hell we tie them. Jorgan Klinsman is the soccer version of Brady Hoke......just utterly incapable of winning the big game. I know many of you may not like to hear this but I say it as a UofM alum and American Citizen.
Brady hoke is coaching michigan talent and klinsman is coaching Minnesota level talent.
Klinsman is coaching a bunch of guys that are not as talented as the rest of the field...I was merely speaking to the fact that both he and Hoke can clearly not get the job done when facing big opponents. If coach Kill was up a touchdown against Ohio in the final 30 seconds, I bet he would be able to close out the game and get the W. Any rational Michigan fan cannot argue that we would also be able to do the same. This is not a slight against Hoke or Klinsman, just an observation that their complete incompetence in big game situations hurt us
is tied atop the group of death after two games. This is a remarkable feat. The USA has produced a team in the country's 4th or 5th most popular sport that is currently tied atop the group of death in the World Cup.
This is not a slight against Hoke or Klinsman, just an observation that their complete incompetence in big game situations hurt us
Maybe you don't know what a "slight" is then? Because yes, that is a slight.
Kinsman was "completely incompetent" in this or the last game 2 biggest in his tenure), sorry but you don't know what your talking about.
Btw his total incompetence has his team of mls "stars" 4 PTs in the group of death of which they went into as the least likely to come out.
that I am very knowledgeable about soccer. I honestly don't know the first thing about it. But what I do know is that we played a major game today and our team choked!!! NO if's and's or but's about it. You don't need to be an expert to see that. It was very reminiscent of the PSU game last year.
So, you admit to not being very knowledgeable about something - soccer, in this case - and yet we have this post - HERE - in a soccer thread where you are supposedly attempting to explain to someone what will and will not happen. You make no projections, but instead simply try to tell someone the "truth" (your word) about something about which you claim here to have limited knowledge. You claim that you are not trying to influence thoughts, but in the mentioned post you are clearly making an attempt to lower expectations. I might seem forward, but that reeks of inconsistency to me. Care to explain it?
so I'll just come out and call him an ass. I'm sure his previous Mgolives would confirm this.
just a realist. It's a bummer that this blog can't handle someone who has a different opinion
it's not about your opinion being different. it is about your opinion being completely wrong, and ignorant.
I am very much leaning on the talking heads in that thread, the same way the average European would be if they were to guess the outcome of Bama vs TCU for instance. Desmond, Kirk, and the rest would bet everything on Bama right? I am doing the same thing just in reverse. This does not make me an expert, but I trust the Desmond Howard equivalent of Soccer over a bunch of biased guys who post on this blog.
What the hell were you watching?
well if you don't know anything about the game. then maybe you should stop talking like you do. watch and enjoy the games, or don't. but leave the assessments to people who have followed the game for a good portion of their lives.
and when those people are projecting a loss for the US against Germany???
Choking would have been not fighting back to equalize after a crushing early goal and getting run off the pitch 2 or 3-0.
It's literally insane to blame Klinsmann for the late magic that Ronaldo produced. If they had only added 4 minutes of stoppage time your sports radio style narrative would be even more meaningless today than it already is.
Just like Ghana was supposed to get blown out by Germany as well, eh? Sounding like a negative ass isn't exactly being the voice of reason.
A bit xenophobic (glad you are an American citizen wtf?). and in American. Kinsman made a ton of correct calls and put his players in a position to win. Bradley puts in the point blank range goal and stops giving the ball away and Jeff Cameron stops sucking on those two goals and we dominated that game.
did not know how to milk the clock on the offensive side of the field with less than two minutes left in extra time lands squarely on the coach
They were exhausted and not the desperate team trying to stave off elimination tough situation to last through against a team with as much offensive talent as Portugal.
I saw both Wondo and Yedlin milk the clock in the corners in the extra time, about 30-45 seconds each. I saw Bradley - a coach's son and a player coached in Italy for a few years - make the error of not knowing how to milk the clock. Bradley also did this at the end of the Ghana game where all he had to do was dribble to the corner and instead puked it up to a Ghana player for one last chance. Maybe Bradley needs to think out there late instead of playing hero ball.
You can tell a player something 100x, some won't do it no matter what. I am sure Bradley is not so dumb as to not know what to do - if he doesn't do it, that is on him. I will get on a coach when it is correct but he can't technically go out there and be the player.
You rightly point out you don't know much about soccer and I'd stick to the ethos to not throwing out broad generalizations about a sport you don't know much about. I don't comment about field hockey for similar reasons.
sucking comes with the territory. Our D stinks. It's stunk for 25 years. Giveaways have happened for 25 years. 2 shutouts in 24 World Cup games since 1990. One of those was Mexico, a team we know well. And we HAVE a great goaltender!!
Cameron is first choice fullback in the Premier League. He is not the problem. Giveaways happen.
Germany can beat the US by 3 goals and the US would still go through if Portugal wins by only 1 or if Portugal/Ghana tie. Hell, Germany could beat us 10 - 0 and we are still through if Ghana/Portugal tie (and there is a decent chance this happens).
I don't know how you put those last 15 seconds on Klinsman. At 94:30, the USA probably had literally a 98% chance of winning that game. Klinsman has done a terrific job so far this World Cup, all without his star striker.
possessions in extra time and we gave the ball away by crossing it to nobody or trying to go 1-on-3. That's inexcusable. Hold the ball, pull it back, and milk the clock.
Again, that's on Klinsman how? This isn't pee-wee AYSO soccer where the players are told exactly what to do and that's all they do. The players are in charge on the field.
Horseshit. i was impressed by their play. Klinsmann is a good coach. two lapses by players
Forgot the /s tag?
ahahaha this post is AMAZING! "Voice of reason" holy shit you know nothing.
Yeah it was JK's fault that Cameron made a play an average AYSO 12 year old can make. It was JK's fault that Bradley did not clear the ball in any direction in the last 30 seconds something any Under 13 player would be taught to by that age considering the time and situation.
Tell me what you would have done differently than JK. Full confession, I would have taken Dempsey out around the 70th minute to get fresh legs up front and he seemed to disappear in the 2nd half, and I would have been a fool since he got us the second goal. Other than bringing Donovan to Brazil I don't see what JK has done wrong in this WC. We are technically the worse team in this group, don't match up athletically well with Ghana and just outplayed a team full of European league players.
if you are going to slander someone. the least you could do is search google to correctly spell their name.
I do not have a good feeling about this. Whether they advance or not, they have to win these types of games in order to improve their reputation. And their mental faculties. I hope they just don't lose too big to Germany.
But.. TomVH tweeted that this stud plans on visiting next month. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/_/id/188869/marcus-lewis
was gonna win huge coming into the game. So I'm gonna stay the course and predict that Germany wins huge
I said US matched up best against Portugal out of this group and it played out. Huge technical error by Cameron really cost us - I thought a first early goal against Portugal and they would mentally check out. Played great football overall, and I have not read the comments but all Bradley had to do late was clear the damn ball - kick it out of bounds, kick it anywhere, make them chase it.
Bradley was much better obviously than v Ghana, Jones was out of his mind today (what a goal) on defense and offense - best player out there considering Ronaldo was his mark, loves the runs by both outside defenders - fun to watch U.S. to play with overlap system, Bedoya had a tough time. Howard fantastic, so tough to see that Bradley shot hit the Portugal defender. Thought U.S. could have won this 3-0, or 2-0.
Unfortunately my last prediction is Ghana will run Portugal into the ground. US needs a tie in that game or a Portugal win to advance on goal differential. Ghana is the same matchup problem for Portugal as they are for us. I see Ghana winning something like 3-1 and US losing a decently close game to a motivated Germany.
Or maybe JK can talk to Germany and talk about "managing" a tie - both advance, Germany wins the group. :)
Just a big bummer today because of what I think Ghana is going to do to Portugal. Hope I am very wrong!
Bradley did not have a very good game. Didn't control the ball well, didn't clear well, looked mediocre.
He was a 2/10 last game and today was around a 6.5/10. Still some dumb turnovers but his penetrating passes were there and he had a lot more possesion. His turnovers are strange to me - maybe I watch him too much versus CONCOCAF but that is just not his thing, but in first 2 games a lot of them overall for him. But I think from minute 15 to minute 75 he played great. Maybe wore out at the end. He didn't play great, but I simply said much better than Ghana which was probably the worse I've seen from him since pre 2010 world cup.
Really hurt his development. There's a significant adjustment curve between playing in the mls and concacaf and playing against ghana, Portugal, and Germany.
I agree. I dont follow the transfer market that much but my friend told me there was not a big market for Bradley. Maybe his play in Italy dropped off a bit in the past 18 months. I don't know.
You disagree with my calling him mediocre but then you give him a 6.5/10? That's mediocre, I think.
Messi at his best is a 10/10. A US player will never be a 10/10 lol. Jones today was probably a 8/10 or 8.5 :) [probably the best game of his life internationally consider his marking assignment and quality of that goal] so I consider 6.5 pretty decent. Mediocre would be something above Ghana but below today's action. He was piss poor vs Ghana.
Sorry I don't have a scale to explain, its my finger in the air. I thought Ronaldo was 6.5/10 today too - pretty average today with 1 moment of brilliance.
This isn't very posbangy
it's just realism
Let's beat Germany 8-0 and let the winner of the Portugal-Ghana game go through as well.
If I may say so, I do like your daughter's attitude towards this game and the prospect of moving on in the World Cup. Rather reminds me of my own daughter's never-say-die thoughts on the game, and she is only seven (eight in a mere three weeks, as she likes to remind us). Of course, my mother being German, I did get the question - "Can we still visit grandma if we beat Germany?"
Except for a freak gaff by one of our better defenders and a freak moment of brilliance well into the 4 (wait we changed our minds it's 5) minutes of stoppage time, that was one of the best performances from team USA I've ever seen. Great press defence, great intelligent passing and link up play, they dominated possession for long periods of time, and asked nearly all the questions in that match.
These gaffes happen every damn game against teams not from the Caribbean. Our goaltending keeps us from looking like Switzerland against France in every game.
And Cameron didn't cover his man at the end either!
Soccer defense is like playing the secondary in American football. Getting it right 67 out of 70 snaps isn't good enough when the guy is 5 yards behind you on the other 3.
Yes, the offense was good (although how much of that was due to Portugal doing zip until the Jones goal was scored). Who cares when the defense is going to stink game in and game out.
Hey, the CONCACAF has performed pretty well this World Cup.
an uncontested cross from the world's best or second best player being perfectly placed a freak moment of brilliance
While true, the sad thing is that this game won't be remembered. This was twenty seconds away from being one of the first games every American spoke of. Now it will only be what could have been.
I really wish we would have won that, so all of the "I'm only watching the World Cup when the Americans play" fans would stop criticizing Jurgen's every move... Everything he did tonight was spot on... Yedlin's speed led to the second goal, and inserting Gonzalez was a solid move at the end. Just a shame that Cameron made two critical mistakes... Feel bad for the guy as he is a quality defender but will take the brunt of the media heat.
As for Thursday, I'm scared.
We are not going to get anyone better than JK for U.S. soccer. He has lived here for a long time, so he knows the U.S. culture,yet he comes from a football nation. Better yet he comes from the exact right nation for U.S. soccer to try to mimic - a Brazilian coach or a Spanish coach doesn't work for the U.S. type of players. Even a Dutch one I think would have trouble. Germany does fit - they are basically the U.S. on steroids and with better technical skills... but we can play a similar system and now are beginning to do so. Of the "great nations of soccer" the German system is the best to fit with U.S. type of players over other more flee flowing, individual, technical skill types like Dutch, Argentina, Brazil, etc.
You could not ask more than what he has done with the type of players we have - I compare us to Japan or South Korea in type of skill set, determinationa, organization and players and we have played very nicely compared to them. After he is done with coaching I hope they move him to a role in national player development and he works on our system of developing elite youth soccer which is focused so much on height, speed, physical domination rather than technical system (I've been exposed to it for 10-12 years). In fact I hope after this Cup is done he spends most of the next year helping on that end - we need some individual brilliance coming through the ranks - the U.S. always will have high spirit players with determination who don't quit (unlike some countries). If you could ever marry that with a higher level of technical skill...well you have Germany.
for the USA to draw enough young kids away from basketball and football to give us an elite talent pool.
That's my point. U.S. youth soccer focuses on athletes - the top club teams are full of guys who look like they could form a great line of WRs and DBs in football. So a lot don't develop real top end technical skill since they dominate on "genes" versus kids their age or even kids 1 year or 2 higher.
This is the one sport you can have regular sized humans do amazing things. Go look at the size of Neymar and Messi. Yes Messi has world class speed with the ball at his feet but you dont need to be a "great athlete" to be a great player. Just need to be a competent athlete. There are very techinically gifted kids out there in the youth soccer ranks but the U.S. Olympic development system (which is basically our development organization) focused on rewarding athletes early so I think these kids get left behind who are small but talented.
Lets all haze Michael Bradley on his Twitter account!!
Tears... Bradley played a decent game, but damn... that ending was killer.
I don't know man that last 25 minutes by Bradley were brutal. His part in the goal even was just a tap. He is either playing tight, hurt or is out of shape.
I know we played awesome and we're still tied for first....but we all wanted that 'W'.
That was the soccer equivalent of Death to Backboards
Put the booze down and sleep it off.
If you want to twist this into a "what would be fair" the U.S. should have won vs Portugal and would have been fortunate to tie Ghana. So it would still be 4 pts just in a differenet order. Badly outplayed vs Ghana and I would have been thrilled with a tie (that was probably not that deserved, we won about 7 minutes of 90) - we got a win instead. I think played slightly better in the middle of the field than Portugal but far more dangerous in the final third then they were, and made boneheaded errors hence a win was "deserved". So we probably are at 4 pts as we deserve - but just in a different manner.
Just watching some of these other games and other teams the way JK has this team in tune I think 2 groups we could have won or easily came in 2nd, and another 2 easily in 2nd place. Tough group man, tough group. Both Ghana and Germany could have won most groups the way they play ... that said Ghana is saying tough group too - they have played well enough to have 6 pts.
Dude, we just went toe to toe with a world class club and kicked their ass's for about 80 minutes of that game. For once a top club needed luck to beat us! USA Soccer has arrived.
Be proud, I know I am.
No, they haven't. It's the same old crap. We have flashes of brilliance with a few solid players, but ultimately, the inconsistency, mistakes, and weaknesses at key positions prevent us from being competitive on the world stage. 9 out of 11 guys played really well today. Bradley and Cameron sucked for the most part, and that was the difference.
is not indicative of being bad, an uncontested cross with 20 seconds left in extra time is.
That being said, this game was far more impressive than the win against Spain 5 years ago.
So we drew against a top club with the top player in Europe in 2013-14 and it's the "same old" stuff? Soccer is the #1 sport in Portugal and what #20 here in the states?
The US Athletes forced a draw with Portugal's soccer players. Just wait until our athletes fully transition that skill to soccer. It's coming.
We've been hearing that every four years for decades. No, it's not coming, and based on the evidence so far, Portugal is not even close to a top club in this World Cup. There is no evidence that U.S. Soccer is doing anything but remaining at its usual 15-20th place in the world.
I disagree with you but for generally different reasons. I doubt the USA will ever arrive in the nature of being a Brazil, Argentina, Dutch, German French type of country. Ever. Maybe in 50-100 years I am wrong if the Hispanic influence takes over 30-40% of the country. But I think the U.S. can be in the 2nd tier behind what most consider soccer royalty - about 6-8 countries.
That level would be what Ghana is at now for example but sustained for a long period of time. Or where Switzerland or Sweden or Mexico is - some star players, depending on the generation they can make a lot of noise every 2nd or 3rd World Cup. I think that is the upside of U.S. soccer. Until then I think the character and mentality of the U.S. will help carry it through a lot of games that it might otherwise not be worthy of but until it can marry that with a few serious world class players it will not "arrive". You don't need 11, but you need 3-4. I do see a lot of mental fortitude from our players every year, even years we suck as I am pretty aghast at what I saw out of France for example (with far higher level players) 4 years ago - that would never IMO really happen here. US soccer is a bit like Canada hockey on that end - prima donnas don't have a place here and you see their grit and determination and how they come together on international tournament - egos go to the backseat. You don't see that from a lot of countries in soccer, which one day can really help the US if they ever got a few world class players.
It is a misnomer that our "best athletes" must play soccer for the country to be at the top level of world soccer. No, you need kids who aside from school go out and play soccer 4-6 hrs a day, every day, all year. And marry that with finding thoe with the raw skills early and get them out of AYSO or rec soccer and into elite programs. Will enough kids ever do that in the U.S. so that eventually out of a pool of XXXXX we can find 15 very great players? I don't really think so but it has little to do with getting LeBron James athletes out there... that's a meme that I think has gained too much traction. There are TONS of athletes out there who will never be good enough or big enough to play basketball or football. Our population is huge enough that if there was a true passion married with a competence of training academies we could be German-lite if the country was behind it and enough kids wanted it.
To your larger point, no a win today would not have meant the U.S. has arrived but it would have been great.
The US is wealthier, more diverse, and has a bigger popular than all of soccer's royalty. It need not even be the predominate sport for the US to be world class. It simply needs to break into the top four of US sports. That is more attainable than you think.
Football has serious health-related issues; baseball is less popular among the young than it has been in decades; basketball growth has slowed; and hockey is largely a regional and expensive sport. Soccer will eventually surpass hockey and maybe even baseball. It will take time, but I think it can happen.
If the concussion issue in football grows parents may take kids away from it even more than it is beginning to happen. And baseball seems to be dying at the youth level from what I hear from coaches who have done it for a long time - it is far less popular than 30 years ago at the youth level apparently. Maybe some of those football and baseball players come over to soccer.
Soccer is different however because you sort of need 3-4 kids to really do things other than dribbling :) Very easy to get a pickup game of basketball where most of our elite basketball players come from 18 hrs a day. A pickup soccer game? Nearly impossible- its all organized sport in U.S. unlike streets or ghettos of most countries. So those extra 3-4 hours of kids just playing for fun with no adults watching that happens in other countries won't happen here. It happens in basketball instead.
There is no reason US soccer couldn't ever be elite. The infrastructure of the youth leagues is being developed and the nature of our melting pot society will bring in more kids that are focused on this game. Certainly athletes will be weeded out to the other sports, but the US has the money, population and facilities to make it great. We're decades away but certainly not "never"
i would call being second in the group of death after two games as being competitive on the world stage.
eight years ago we were just about completely shut out in the group stages. four years ago we limped in to the group stages (yeah i know we won the group, but it was a weak group). this year we have taken on two of the best teams in the world so far, and have come away with four points.
you must have a very pessimistic outlook in general if you cannot see that improvement.
USA soccer has not "arrived". And they won't arrive until they WIN games like this. Portugal was at least 4 guys down and their best player wasn't 100%. USA has a long way to go and I'm not proud of what happened tonight.
One last though before finishing banging head in wall - Belgium is star studded but entirely beatable the way they are playing now so 2nd place would be fine versus playing the winner of a lot of other groups. So that would be a relative break if we go through. The first place team has probably one of the easier matchups as well as it will be Algeria or Russia it looks like...for a round of 16 opponent those are both very happy matchups.
I was thinking late in the game, man get these 6 pts and somehow tie Germany and we play Russia Algeria to advance? Yes please!
would beat us rather handily I think.
Belgium is technically better than us of course but they don't play super disciplined. I think the U.S. would have a chance - I'd like our chances better than vs Germany. And I'd like it better than facing 1st place teams like France, Brazil, Germany, Holland etc of other groups.
My point being as a 2nd place team you are going to play a tough 1st place team from one of the other 7 groups. If you ranked those 1st place teams from1 to 7 you would not put Belgium in the top half. Hence it would be a relative break to play them versus other potential 1st place teams.
Went to BWW again w/friends, I'm pretty sure I saw Rapture Guy V.2 when we took the led at 2-1.
Amazing atmosphere. I like our odds to advance.
Yeah, guaranteed there's a gif of that guy on the internet already
of games, it's become clear that individual talent is not nearly as important as team chemistry. These guys don't play together very often, and play out of their ideal comfort zones. It allows for discipline and hard work to level the playing field. That being said, talent comes in when it's the little things, like having the experience and skill to possess the ball in the waning moments of the game, or being able to create a chance from nothing (messi) or delivering a perfect ball when it's your team's last chance (Ronaldo). The USA doesn't have that, so they rely on hustle and luck.
Agree 100%. The U.S. benefits from the togetherness and playing from the same page. It loses on the technical aspects. And in games that are decided often by 1 or 2 errors or moments of brilliance that is where the U.S. is hurt.
Another point is a lot of these guys from other countries are basically playing to showcase themselves and get better contracts or upgrade their clubs. Especially if their team is not playing well. That is not the U.S. mentality.
People are over-estimating Germany. Are they the best team in the group? Yes. But they were against the ropes in the Ghana match for solid chunks, and Portugal looked decent against them until Pepe was sent off. Ozil, their main creator, has been absolute shit. And all of this from two games that they felt they had to win.
Now they're facing a team on an equal level as the first two teams they played, in a game they don't even have to win, and suddenly they're gonna win 3-0? Possible but unlikely.
Disagree. Ghana puts pressure on a midfield unlike many teams in the world. Germany had trouble with it. Most teams in the world would have trouble with the pressure Ghana puts on a midfield - they take away time and space in a way few teams can.
Facing similar athletes Germany will dominate on technical skill.
I do agree Ozil has not played well - Bradley has sort of matched him in apathy though.
Ghana certainally bothered Germany with their athleticism. They also showed how flawed players like Mertesacker are if there is any kind of break. They have holes and have lacked cutting edge in the run of play. Gotze's goal is the only one they've scored on a really impressive offensive move. Some people are painting them as Euro 2012 Spain, though.
Point is, I can't see the US losing by three goals, even if both teams were going into the contest needing a win. The gulf in class isn't THAT wide. It's significant but not as much as some people in this thread are making it out to be.
Let's recall the 2002 team, far and away less talented than this one, which should have forced extra time against the eventual runners up (Germany) if not for the referee, in the quarterfinals of a World Cup. Based on evidence and the circumstance, Germany are unlikely to hvae their way with this team.
I am not sure what you mean by the 3 goals thing. I think it is widely accepted if Portugal wins the U.S. will advance as they won't make up a huge gulf unless US simply gets blown off the field. The worry is Ghana winning. They only need to win by a goal (and U.S. loses by 1 goal) to begin going to second tiebreakers. If U.S. loses by 2 goals OR Ghana wins by 2 it's done.
the chance the US gets blown off the field. I think we can get a goal or two. I think we could give up 3+.
And it's less than I think Germany is 3 goals better than the US and more that their strength (putting the ball in the net) goes directly against our weakness (defending).
If you disagree, please tell us why. All you did was make a claim that everyone would struggle with Ghana's pressure, which hardly establishses Germany's superiority, and then you concluded that Germany will dominate. That's not much of an argument.
Germany and U.S. have similar athletes. Germany has more skill. Germany has more depth. Germany can play backup players without much drop off - U.S. cannot. Germany has same advantages in set pieces U.S. does, hence a wash. Germany has a never die mentality. Germany plays together rather than individuals. Germany has all the intangibles the U.S. has (similar cultures) but with much more skill. Etc etc
My point about Ghana and Germany was that Ghana helped make Germany look mortal. The U.S. doesn't have the same type of bullets to do that to Germany. Even in game 1 not to mention game 3 when they are going to be tired.
That they havent gotten in 70 years, its a good US beating.
thank you internet for giving people who have limited knowledge of a subject the ability to endlessly talk out of their asses about said subject without a shred of humility.
glad I could help. Have you seen all my cute kitten pictures yet?
How do you know what knowledge people have, and who are you to judge them? I don't agree with everyone on here, but I have enough respect for them to not just assume that they're incompetent morons with no knowledge of the game. What makes you so special?
it is pretty easy to tell what knowledge people have when they
A. say "i don't have much knowledge on the subject"
B. make statements that are so off base that they even make the pessimists do a double take.
for instance when our defenders spends 85 minutes being a major cockblock for one of the best teams in the world, and someone say's "our defense sucks". that is a sign of not being knowledgeable. either they didn't watch the game, or they did watch the game but do not understand it. in either case they somehow think they know what they are talking about when they post about it after the game.
when someone tries to correct their ignorance. they get mad, claim the board is biased, and double down on their ignorant opinions.
but hey. want to disagree with me on my stance that the loss to germany + portugal win over ghana means we don't automatically advance. fine. we can discuss it. want to say something like "this is the worst american team ever! defense sucks!"?... i'm sorry, but i just cannot tolerate that kind of ignorant dumbassery.
So what is your experience with soccer? Are you a coach in the college or professional ranks? Are you or were you a player at an elite level? And yes, the defense was pretty piss-poor tonight whether you want to admit it or not. As a unit, they completely gifted a goal to Portugal off of a high school mistake and lazily failed to mark the runner into the box at the last second. Beasley was solid, Cameron was awful, the rest were respectable. Our back four has been a weakness for a while now, so although saying "they suck" might be an overstatement, they certainly aren't up to the standard of the good European and South American teams. They have a lot of work to do.
Certainly not the the banged up team we saw tonight!
And maybe I should be more specific--the "defending" by the US team, midfield included, is subpar. The giveaways in midfield, the gaffes (that apparently don't count as bad defense in your world, but are apparently one-offs), the poor clearances--I've seen them for a long time now and they come with the territory with US soccer. The defending is often mitigated by the fact Tim Howard is an excellent goalkeeper.
So yeah I think the defense overall stinks. 24 World Cup games since 1990, 2 shutouts. Another team that can't defend well, South Korea, has 6 over that exact same time frame.
So where's your knowledge? Your statement is full of blatant falsehoods, misrepresentations, and poor grammar. Portugal isn't one of the best teams in the world. Apparently "cockblock" also includes Tim Howard standing on his head and balls hitting the post.
Kind of funny "fat" sports reporters, many of which never played the sport they report on past 6-7th grade - if ever - are allowed to make opinion pieces but people on blogs must have played semi pro or been a coach in college to comment. In this particular sport I was very involved as both a player and coach in travel but never past that (because it was a hobby/passion and not a career) but if someone watched soccer for 20 years they could know everything I know. Or more. So I don't think it disqualifies anyone from commenting personally.
That aside, defense is team oriented - its a lot like an offensive line. If one parts break down it can all crumble and it has nothing to do with the defense players itself. A lot of U.S. breakdowns over the years come out of the midfield. If you are man marking or zone marking you are f***** if the midfield doesnt come back to help and you have a 2 v 1. Do you leave your man farther up the field to close on the guy with the ball (thus opening up an easy pass to the guy you just left?) or do you stay with your guy and leave the guy with the ball open? You are screwed either way as a defender in that case and a casual observor yells at you whereas anyone who knows the game knows someone missed an assignment.
In this game Cameron was plain awful. Aside from the gaffe he had other shaky plays all over the place. Besler struck me as solid. Beasley didnt grade out well with Brian in game 1 but I have been happy with him both games, yes he doesn't "tackle" great but he prevents a lot of balls in and to me denial of entry is far more effective than trying to tackle - none of our defenders are great tacklers. His side was goal #1 to attack with Ghana. Fabian Johnson seemed solid.
But going to my larger point Bedoya was outclassed by Nani. And that is not even a good version of Nani - he looks like a guy who is 70% of his old self, probably because he has 5 inches of rust on him. But that is happening in the midfield area/deep wings. So when Nani breaks down Bedoya people say "hey the defense sucks" when it's the midfield defense lacking. I think Bradley's defense has also been below par - seen guys break him down more than I am used to.
But yes U.S. defense has generally sucked for a few decades. Bocanegra was probably our best defender over the past 15 years and on many national teams he would not even start. I think it then drops down to someone like a Cherundolo and then it falls off the map to guys like Onyewu. I wonder today how Beasley would have turned out if he had been a defender all his pro life - he used to drive me nuts as an outside midfielder as his technical skill lacked, but I like him as a defender - "you can't teach pace". When you are fast you can screw up and make up for it. But when Beasley was down on the ground late my first thought was OH NO TIMMY CHANDLER. Again, zero depth out there. Part of why any deep run is difficult for this team - it can't go more than 14-15 deep.
My advice for people after games that end in a heartbreak like this is to watch the highlights of Trey and the epic comeback we had against Kansas. That typically puts me in a slightly better mood at least.
I honestly can't believe people are trying to put the late game collapse on Klinsmann. This isn't American football where a coach calls plays. He's confined to his technical area, and I can guarantee that if he were screaming instructions at the top of his lungs in the waning moments of that game, a person standing 10 feet away couldn't have heard him in that stadium. For all you know, he could have been yelling at Bradley to launch the ball into the corner.
the cross was perfect, the run by Varela was perfect, and his header was perfect. there is not much defense against perfect play. it just so happened that for 94 minutes Ronaldo wasn't perfect, and it finally clicked in the final minute of play.
imagine what the score would have been if they came out and played like that for 90 minutes.
had no defenders on the field on the last play of the game. Oh, that's right, they did.
The cross was picture perfect. The header was fine, but was made at about 6 feet. The two Americans around the ball simply didn't defend it.
But I guess that's just your impression of good defense.