This isn't good for Alabama. I don't know if this means anything for Marvin Austin at UNC.
fair point that
This isn't good for Alabama. I don't know if this means anything for Marvin Austin at UNC.
Losing Dareus flat-out kills us. He was projected to be a potential top five draft pick in the 2011 Draft. Was by far our best pass rusher and an absolute freak of nature athletically.
I am hoping that this gets resolved soon. Word is that many other players were involved. Interested to see when "the list" gets revealed.
As for Dareus' story about not knowing that agents were involved, I can believe that maybe he didn't know about the agents...but he's gotta have better sense than to take a random trip to South Beach and not anticipate potential trouble. When you're a college football player for a big program in this day and age, everything you do is magnified X 1000000.
It is impossible to watch this entire video without falling out of your chair laughing
they had already lost 9 starters from last year's defense. this will hurt BAD
saw him return that intercepted shovel pass for a td last night on the replay of the championship game. for a big guy, he was quite graceful, shaking off qb tackles with a spin move. i am sure they have some other good players, but he looked to be VERY good.
Can Mark Ingram play defense, too?
It'll be hard to win the Heisman on defense since his ridiculously good OL can't do 95% of the work for him while getting virtually no credit.
was very good for Ingram last year, but he was still a fucking stud. He never went down on first contact, and rarely went down on second, third, or fourth either.
but that's a much easier feat when the first player coming in contact with you is a corner or safety rather than a DL or LB
Per the same link:
Saban just said report Dareus is ineligible is not true. Stay tuned.
The SEC won't let me be
Or let me be me so let me see
They tried to shut me down on ABC
But it feels so empty without me
(Note: made a few edits to this)
May I have your attention please?
May I have your attention please?
Will the whole SEC now please shut up?
I repeat, will the whole SEC now please shut up?
We're gonna have a problem here..
Y'all act like you never seen a football game before
Jaws all a yap, talkin' smack, like Knowshon just burst through the line
And started whoopin I-AA schools 80-to-nine
So Bama had a good day, and yes, our Buckeyes are gay,
And Les Miles had us all like...
"you're kidding, he does know how a clock works, don't he?"
And Paul Bryant said: ...nothing you idiots! The Bear's dead,
and you're left giving all your coaches head
SEC fans love the Big Ten
"Bo-Woody, I'm sick of them.
"Look at them!
Running the ball up your you-know-what,
Throwing to You-know-who,"
Yeah, but they're dead, too.
Yeah, we probably got a couple of upsets to MAC schools
But no worse, than Louisiana-Monroe in Tuscaloos
Sometimes, I wanna get on ESPN and just let loose, but can't
'Cause it's colder here than the ass of a dead moose
But now my team is in your crib, my team is in your crib
And if you're lucky, we might beat you by just a little bit
And that's the message that we deliver to high school kids
And expect them to learn what a real football conference is.
Of course they gonna know what an education is
By the time they hit fourth grade
They've got a degree from Florida, don't they?
"We ain't nothing but winners"
Well, some of you sinners
Who treat your student athletes like they're meat for your dinners
But if you recruit by your bank account, And 85's too high for your coaches to count.
And there's no reason your 3-star busts can't just transfer out
Then wave the Tebow's pantyhose, sing the chorus and it goes:
I'm Big Ten, yes the Real Big Ten
Got my own fucking channel; and twice your $M$
So won't the whole SEC now please shut up,
Please shut up, please shut up?
You think I give a damn about McFadden?
We'll put that bitch on his ass like the Falcons in Madden
I hear you've got a stadium with a hundred thou seats
Well, guess what, pissants, I've got three.
I've got a ticket down to Pasadena,
We'd invite you too but Stanford would cream ya.
You should try a game up here in Ann Arbor
When it's 30 below and not fuckin Pearl Harbor
I'm sick of you little girl and boy teams, all you do is annoy me
If your teams are so good why do you lose to Vandy?
You know your best two teams are just like me
Laying hits like they just don't give a fuck like me
Defend, and run the ball up the gut like me
You just might be the next best thing but not quite me!
I'm like a head trip to listen to, cause I'm only giving you
The crap you say to everyone else who will listen to you
The only difference is I got the history to back it
Cause I was playing football when you were wearing white sheets to practice
Like back when Michigan got on field and spit it
And whether you like to admit it, Florida shit it
And ninety percent of you losers lost to them
Called the Tebow a god 'cause your "D" could not stop him
It's funny; 'cause you like to dismiss us like some old thing,
But all I see is Big Ten boys with Superbowl bling
While your boys are still trying to make Arena League camps
Living in trailers off ex-cheerleaders' food stamps
And every 4-star recruit is leaving school early
He'll end up serving at Burger King, spittin on your onion rings
Or working in Boca as my grandpa's caddy
Talking 'bout the days he called Phil Fulmer daddy.
So, will the SEC just please shut up?
And take that loser flag down off your Ford truck!
Then realize, some while ago, you started a war
And one more time, think real hard, loud as you can, how did that go?
That was amazing,
This single party is creating massive problems for a whole bunch of teams. I mean, Alabama and UNC were trendy picks to play in a major bowl game this year, and both are likely to be without major pieces of their teams this year as a result.
I did find it rich that Saban was railing against agents infiltrating college football and calling them "pimps", considering how frequently he jumped between teams for money reasons.
He was correct in what he said, but he doesn't really have the right to be the one who says it.
Yeah, I guess this party was huge. I was talking to a buddy of mine(bama fan) and the first thing he said to me was "we are so screwed". From what he has heard and read it involved 10 SEC teams and 40 total players. Now I'd imagine most of them are projected starters for their respective teams, that's going to hurt. The only schools I've heard that didn't have a player at the party are Vandy and Miss St.
Die, SEC, die. I'm hoping that this turns out to be Armageddon, it seems as if everyone should suffer like we did.
If I was going to throw a party, I wouldn't invite Vandy or Miss State. Those people are lame
Seems, as usual, that the NCAA is treating the symptom, and not the root of the disease.
As discussed many places, the NCAA can't "treat" the root of the disease. They have no power over agents. Any rules and punishments can be freely ignored.
Unless, of course, you mean allowing college athletes to recieve small stipends so they won't be tempted by agents and their handouts, which is a whole different discussion.
Frankly, if the NCAA wants to maintain amateurism they have to do what it appears they are doing this off-season. Hammer schools who turn a blind eye and hammer players who accept benefits from agents. In some ways it is a shame that a specific group of players (2011 NFL draft picks) will feel the brunt after years of lax enforcement, but if the NCAA is ever going to get it under control there has to be a "lost generation" of players.
So how many more scholarships do they need to shed before they get under the cap? (I know this departure wasn't planned.)
I love asking bama fans that question. They're at a loss for words, at least those who know what I'm talking about, the rest of them don't have a clue. They don't believe me after I explain it to them either. Saint Nick wouldn't do that is the most common response.
As someone who supports the Tide and the Wolverines, I can tell you that your stereotypical judgements of Alabama fans as big, dumb rednecks who don't know how the game works is inaccurate.
Attrition must happen every year leading up to fall camp to crunch the numbers down to where they are supposed to be. Every program has to deal with it. Look at all the players RR makes offers to. You think he intends to squeeze all of them into the 85-player maxiumum?
You'll find that there are plenty of educated and knowledgeable Tide fans. Maybe you should look outside the trailer parks for a change. Seems to me that Mich fans have more a problem with Saban than they do with Alabama. I get it. No one likes him outside of Tide fans. He's a very polarizing figure.
I mean, we make fun of 'Bama as much as the next state aware of Alabama's existence, but the redneck shit is in jest. We don't really believe cows walk around campus of East Lansing either (not counting the ones my brother used to date).
But you're missing the point of the uproar over the Bama over-recruitment. It's not that he handed out too many offers. It's that he signed way way way too many guys, and thus has to find excuses for dismissing players already on scholarship. This can't be justified as "you gotta hold up your end." Because that "end," i.e. the minimum requirement to remain on the team, shifts with how many extra players Saban still needs to fit. If he's got 8 more guys, and you have a B-minus average and are 4th on the depth chart, you could be in danger of having your scholarship yanked. If that happens, you need to go to a D-II school, or sit out a year, not to mention the academic and personal struggle of transferring. It's a raw deal. It makes the program stronger, but it's very very unethical.
Saban's not a "polarizing figure" except that his ethical violations offend everyone who doesn't have a vested interest in the overall performance of the Alabama Crimson Tide football program over that of the players who join it. U-M fans, in particular, care about this shit because our program from the time of Bump Elliott has defined itself through ethical behavior toward student athletes. It was the defining feature of Bo, of Mo, of Lloyd, and right down to the tears on Rich Rod's face when his first response to "practicegate" was to decry the suggestion that he doesn't care about the welfare of his players.
In the military during WWII, some field commanders famously found ways to pack more recruits into their companies. A certain few couldn't hack it, and the military planned for that. But these particular guys always way over-shot the limits. There's a story, perhaps apocryphal, that once such commander had X amount of bunk beds and X+5 recruits, and made the guys fight for possession of the beds: the sad five slept on the floor, and were transferred out of the company. More proven, another commander liked to come up with a quota of infractions to punish guys for, so even when the men hadn't committed any infractions, guys were hit up for them. In the military, this was considered acceptable, although nobody wanted to serve under those guys. College football, however, isn't the military.
The head coach, conceptually, recruits players with the understanding that they are becoming part of the program, i.e. that the program is making a commitment to them as well. The point of the 85-man scholarship limit, in addition to making it possible for smaller schools to compete, is to create an atmosphere in which college coaches must honor their commitments to their student athletes, and do everything in their power to make sure their players progress academically. Saban's over-recruiting attempts to subvert the intent of this rule in order to improve the football performance of his team, to the detriment of the players he chooses to shed. That is why it is unethical. That's why it's classless.
Alabama under Saban is about winning, period. If you really really care about Alabama winning, and are comfortable with your program taking on the heartless characteristics of an NFL franchise to do so, that is your prerogative as a fan. If you want Alabama to be the school that cares more about winning than its players, that is a valid position. You're not the only Southern school doing it. However, you can't fault every other school for advertising that fact, because if you're a parent of a talented athlete who is considering playing for Saban, you would want to warn your kid that he'd better go in knowing he'd better not be in any danger of slipping down the depth chart, because the head coach will need to meet his quotas.
I actually agree with your stance, unfortunately we are in a day and age in college football where it's tough to maintain that sense of ethics and respect. Even RR "accepted" the job to Alabama before WV waved dollar signs and facility upgrades in his face and he elected to stay in M-town (yet Saban gets the rep as being 'money-hungry' when actuality it's something that ALL these big-name coaches have to face) It's turned into a business, and I hate it as much as the next guy. I'm not denying RR cares for his players, but he wants a nice paycheck and national exposure as much as the next marquee name football coach.
Believe me, there's something wrong when a kid receives a scholarship and then has to have it revoked because they're "cutting numbers" and he hasn't seen the playing field. Is it "unethical", yes. But more than anything, it's a sign of the times. LSU's dealt with attrition issues the last few years and is already on pace to oversign for 2011. In a four-year stretch from 07-10, LSU has signed 105. Washington has signed 103. Miami has signed 99. Nebraska has signed 96. Texas A&M has signed 93, and even Texas is at 86, still one above the limit. Even Indiana's basketball coach Tom Crean just recently ran off a player to make room for another recruit.
It's not fair one single bit - and if my son is committing to a scholarship somewhere I'd second-guess it myself. Just seems like loyalty in college football has become a thing of the past these days. Maybe there weren't quite as many regulations on it as there used to be. Even back in the times of legendary Bama coach Bear Bryant, there was no limit set on the number of players a coach could sign. He could sign as many players as possible. Sometimes Alabama would sign over ninety players. This gave him the luxury of implementing strenuous conditioning and training practices while not having to be as concerned about injury or attrition. But it's something the coaches of today have to worry about. Offering so many guys but not being able to anticipate future departures/transfers/injuries etc.
It probably doesn't help that the players of today have this "instant gratification" complex where if they don't see playing time immediately within the first year or two, they want to transfer. That's one of the biggest selling points a coach can give a recruit - "come here and you can play right away". It's not a perfect system whatsoever. When those players become part of the team, they are constantly competing for a roster spot and as a result there just flat-out isn't enough room.
I'm a fan of Alabama, not a fan of how the game of college football is appearing more and more like the NFL these days. Like I said, I agree with your stance, you don't have to convince me of that. I was more upset by the fact that one of the above posters insinuated that Alabama fans are in denial and/or just too plain stupid to realize the problem.
I'm sorry, but you can't just pass this off as a "sign of the times." Saban pioneered the concept of massive oversigning, and some of his SEC brethren are starting to feel compelled to try and follow suit. Outside the SEC the practice is rare. And I don't think you can blame the players for craving instant gratification when Saban himself seems guilty of it by nudging non-contributors out.
This is probably the most reasonable response I've yet read from a Bama fan (figures it comes from the Michigand and Bama fan) on this subject. Plus for that.
I think our disagreement comes down to whether or not Saban should be marked out specifically for this practice, or whether it's an NCAA loophole that every coach would willfully breach if only he could recruit like Saban.
I would fall on the former. As pointed out by jmblue below, Saban was the first to abuse it, he has been by far the most egregious offender, and Alabama is far from the only school that can recruit on that level. When I did the Decimated Defense part II, I made particular note of how Bama's numbers were ludicrous beside the Big Ten schools. He literally built his Alabama program the way I used to build my EA Sports dynasties at non-Michigan schools: recruiting tons of high-level guys that he didn't have room for, then cutting the faceless, feckless, lower-ranked FB#32s and WR#81s to make room for my guys, who in turn got cut in future years for better players. Except he was doing it on an 85-man roster instead of my 55-man rosters, and...oh yeah...he was doing to real people. Alabama recruited 83 defensive players from 2005 through 2009. There's "recruiting for expected attrition" and then there's "recruiting twice as many players as you will ever be able to hold with a clear intention of shedding the less useful ones."
No other program has done that. For that, Saban deserves all the revile he gets.
Nasty business, these agents are.
care to join Demtrius and Nick in Ann Arbor?
That is a really big loss for Bama's defense.
Note to Michigan players: Stay away from South Beach -- and agents -- lest ye endure the wrath of Barwis.
Their defense is not going to be very good, at least at first. I'd give Penn State a shot if they had a quarterback.
Let's place odds on when OSU gets busted for something...
Thank God good old St Nick over signs so he always has extra kids to fill in.
Edit: my spelling sucks
Heard a source say St. Nick told investigators that Dareus left the party as soon as he knew the agents were throwing it. I have told some good ones in my life, but thinking this kid got down to Miami with all the women and booze and turned around after a little while is an absolute joke. Must think he can lie to most everyone like the SEC coachs to do recruits.
The great thing about all of this is that everyone is talking about the SEC, UNC, and USC, but Michigan has fallen out of the discussion as far as ethics. These are "major" violations, unlike stretching and 7 on 7's and everyone is beginning to realize this. As long as the NCAA doesn't come down any harder on UM, we should be in the clear while all of these other schools really have a chance of being hammered by the NCAA to set examples.
The whole deal of U-M players being "overpracticed" absolutely pales in comparison to the situations at USC, Florida, and all these other places where agents are getting involved with the players and the players receiving benefits. I honestly don't think U-M is gonna get hit hard at all because of this. The sad thing is, I really doubt that many of the marquee programs in college football abide by the maximum number of practice hours each week. I still haven't understood why Michigan was singled out for it while others weren't investigated for the same thing. I doubt U-M sees any real tough penalties.
Few schools abide by the practice limits, but that doesn't make it okay for us to do it. Michigan was singled out because the other schools didn't have a newspaper with an agenda publishing trumped up allegations in an attempt to get that school's coach fired. If we would have had our paperwork in order, we may have been able to avoid sanctions altogether. But alas, that wasn't the case.