that we expanded the size of the student section a few years ago? And if so, how big was it before and exactly how big is it now?
here's one vote for "John Beilein's head in a Futurama jar"
that we expanded the size of the student section a few years ago? And if so, how big was it before and exactly how big is it now?
Yes. A quick google search shows at the very least it was expanded in 2002, 2006, (I think) again after that, and then finally by 1000 seats in 2011. There were many years when some student tickets (I think they were grad and medical students, if memory serves) were in an overflow section in the opposite end zone, too.
There used to be a really good Detroit News article that had the specific numbers, but it's no longer online.
Yes. I was a victim of the 2011 expansion. I got kicked out of my longtime seats in Section 34, something I was mightily pissed about at the time. Imagine how even more pissed I was when I looked across the stadium from my new seats in section 18, only to see my old seats and hundreds others around them empty!
I'm over it now because in reality my new seats are much better seats. My main irriation was over being split up from the folks around me I was used to stiiting with. And I enjoyed sitting right next to the student section without actually being in it.
"...it seems no one really wants to get at exactly what that is..."
"...At least one of our 15 Marketing MBA's in the AD should find out why they are not coming/coming late/leaving early, and what may entice them to change that."
"The problem is why don't they show for the whole game despite spending the money."
"Along with the "pay the players" movement..."
"Make them an actual part of the team, not just disinterested observers."
Afte taking five minutes to login and type your rant about how you wasted 20 seconds of your valuable time rereading previous posts let's "analyze" the issue. The posts wondering why students come late and leave early have me believe you are the same people who feel it necessary to spend millions on researching whether or not teens are interested in sex. Forgive my pragmatism; students come late and leave early cause you cannot drink beer at the stadium. Once inhibriated the chances of having sex with a partner whose inhibitions are lowered drop substantally in the stadium. You don't need an MBA or marketing degree for this (see Occam's Razor). Another issue at play, is the general sense of entitlement the y generation beholds. Pay to play-- as I stare at my my nearly 100k in school debt, I shake my head. Put kids on the sideline to eliminate a disconnect? WTF? Did you mean sidewalk? Lastly, there are many students who dont actually pay for much out of thier own pockets. Rather, their parents pay. They've not yet entered the real world. Begin tales of personal woes and hardships you experienced while earning your degree. Done? Obviously, I was not talking about you. I gotta believe the post about the Greek system is true. If it were just about attendance, one would keep the block seating to readily identify those groups guilty thus having the ability to punish only those groups. Oh, teens are interested in sex, so you know.
That's quite a rant.
You are correct, sir. Didn't realize how long it was at the time and w/out paragraphs. I deserve a time out.
the problem is that 18 - 22 year olds are motivated by sex and alcohol - which is a downgrade from the 60's and 70's of sex, drugs and rock n roll.
I don't understand why people talk about punishing groups of people. This is suppose to be entertainment and support of your school. Part of the issue is that college students, in general, have certain "expectations" for their football entertainment. 1) it needs to be 80 degrees outside. This can be a problem in Ann Arbor. I saw a lot of students last week with their T-shirt only and it rained and was in the 40's (uh - they left). 2) game times need to fit their sleeping habits ... noon games will always be an issue for student attendance.
I tend to agree that the size of the student section needs to be reduced (look at MBB at Crisler Center and the puny size of the Maize Rage section). I don't think it needs to be reduced by much - but by at least an amount that would make going to the game a "priority" for them. I would also sell the upper portion of the stadium to season ticket holders and put the student section lower. Better seats for the students and there wouldn't be as large of an empty area in the stands.
Puny size of the Maize Rage?
The first season I had student tickets for basketball, in the last throes of Amaker, I was sitting in the second to last row of the upper bowl. You didn't get bleacher tickets until you were a sophomore or junior. The last season I had student tickets, four seasons later, there were something like less than 300 season ticket holders. Bleacher tickets were sold to the general public for every single game. They were piling pizzas for us as rewards for actually showing up. It's not like that anymore.
No, the current Maize Rage is not "puny." That was puny.
to the number of seats and rows for the Maize Rage, court side as compared to places like msu or ohio.
But those courtside bleacher seats are not the only Maize Rage seats in the hosue. There are plenty more that you don't see on TV.
So it seems that the real culprit in all of this may in fact be rock-n-roll....
No, there was an upgrade in security.
News Flash . . . students have always wanted to drink and have sex. Yet they still also used to show up for 6 or 7 football games a year.
It has been decades since you could drink at the stadium. And as far as I recall, you were never allowed to have sex in the stadium. Yet the students still came to games.
The games have been been televised for decades. The 1:00 game that is not on TV anywhere has not been around for years. Yet the students still came to games.
Students have always had busy schedules and hard courses and limited free time at Michigan. Yet the students still came to games.
So what's changed? There has to be more to it than just high-def TV. It's worth finding out what.
If your going to come smug; come informed.
I've ben doing it wrong for a long time....
The AL.com story - HERE - fills in some details about how far this could go.
Essentially, this being the first "offense", they lose the block seating for just this game. If it happens again, they lose it for the rest of the season and, in both cases, take a hit on points for tickets for 2014. The third offense would mean a ban in 2014 as well. Apparently, this is a serious thing in the student seating handbook.
There is also a photo of the student section only sparsely populated during the Georgia State game, which I assume is an example of what prompted this.
When I got to UM in 1971 booze was allowed into the stadium, but capacity crowds were infrequent. From '71 through the '74 season, there were exactly 5 capacity crowds total. I can assure you that the student sections were far from filled, regardless of the fact that we could bring beer and wine in.
They started cracking down on openly bringing booze into the stadium sometime during the '80s or early '90s, by which time we'd already had our string of consecutive games over 100K going for some time. The issues with student attendance have arisen in the last several years.
In other words, allowing booze in the stadium won't cure the problem.
What I'd like to know is the historical record of how many seats have been allotted to the students over the last couple of decades. If it's true, as some assert here, that the student section was increased in size a few years ago, then it would seem sort of obvious that the section needs to be reduced in size to what it had been before.
When you attended Bo was just returning the luster of the program. Irrespective of 100k attendance, which you yourself said started prior to the crack down has little to nothing to do with staying or leaving. I could walk in turn around and walk out and i was in "attendance".
But it would solve my sober problem.
and force them to play on kick coverage while trying to text at the same time. I'd pay good money to watch the carnage.
Good stuff. Whoops, I DP'd
They could just stop selling student tickets. Move the GA part of it to the gate and scan the m card for payment at time of entry. The first whatever thousand students would get in untill the section is full. This would at least get a good measure of demand.
I like it. The rest would go scalp a ticket a few minutes before/after kickoff for right around regular price. If you're not early, you pay like everyone else. Great idea!
Unsold student allotment could be sold to the general public after a certain time frame. The marquee could project available tickets to the public based on entrance rates of students.
Remember canham had to be very creative about filling the stadium.
ok, I am fine with what M has done with the student seating, but what Bama has done is stupid. That is a little different IMO. Leaving in the second half when winning big is not as big of a deal compared to M students showing really late or not at all.
If Saban wants students to stay to the end of the game perhaps he should stop winning by 50+ friggin' points.
Even if they shrink the student section, would those tickets sell to the general public? If they keep this Dynamic pricing, then I think not. It's amazing to me that you can still buy tickets to the Nebraska game and Ohio game over at mgoblue.com right now. How are they not sold out yet? It's becasue they are way overpriced. It is pretty sad that you can get tickets cheaper on stub hub than directly from the university. I needed an extra ticket to the Minnesota game and was going to buy one from mgoblue, I said screw it after I found out they wanted a service fee and a transaction fee to go along with the ticket price. Just squeezing as much money out of ticket holders as they possibly can.
So... they are enforcing a rule that is in the ticketing policy (that they haven't been enforcing) to punish students for doing something that against the ticketing policy (ie I highly doubt it says in the ticket policy that the purchaser is obligated to stay the entire game)? Makes perfect sense...
The seats all appear to be singles, so that might be a factor, but I agree that cost must have something to do with it. Singles in the end zones for OSU are $235. That's an awful lot of money to pay to sit by yourself.
I wonder how many of those will be wearing red jersies next month, yelling to their red jersied friends a couple rows away.
I've said it before and got hammered for it, but...
At Michigan, at least, I think a major part of it is the decrease in in-state students. Out-of-state and international students majorly do not have a deep connection to Michigan football. When a growing percentage of your student body doesn't have a deep connection to the state and to the team... well, is it that surprising that they don't care?
You probably got hammered for it because it doesn't make that much sense. OOS students only make up around 35 percent of the student body, was the ratio that much different a few years ago when there weren't attendance "problems"? Also, a huge percentage of OOS students are legacies and thus probably have as deep or a greater connection to the team than the average person who simply grew up in the state. Furthermore, many OOS kids picked Michigan over competing schools because of the combined athletic-academic experience that it offers. Finally, what does having a deep connection to the state has to do with anything?
That's a lot of assumptions based on faulty data.
Your "data" is one year of admissions where the percentage of OOS students increase by a few percentage points?
The total enrollment has increased by over 3.5 thousand in the past 4 years. There is still the same amount, if not more in-state students at Michigan today as there was before the attendance problems started to occur. In the very article that you posted it states that "in 2002 U-M enrolled 1,827 non-resident freshmen, 801 fewer out-of-state students than this year. Also in 2002 overall freshmen enrollment levels were at 5,187 — 984 students fewer than this year. Of the enrollment difference between those two years, roughly 81 percent is comprised of non-resident students." Thus, the amount of in-state students increased by almost 200 kids from 2002-2012.
According to a 2011 Senate Fiscal Agency report, 47% of Michigan students are out-of-state. Up the road, it's 24% at Michigan State. If out-of-state enrollment (which includes international students) has gone up each year since then, what does it say about Michigan out-of-state enrollment? And you're really stretching it with unsubstantiated claims that a lot of them are legacies, etc. There's no way of knowing that.
Point is, OOS enrollment is up at the state's flagship public university.
Okay, but in-state enrollment is also up. The OP's claim was that a declining amount of in-state students was a reason for the lack of attendance. The premise of that argument is false.
And shut the he'll up.
Stupid auto correct
This is an issue I've gone full circle on and have completely changed my opinion on over the past year. Largely through reasoned discourse on this board I'm now in the "pro-student" camp (odd phrasing I know) and think we should address the issue with carrots, not sticks.
First and foremost our current GA policy I insane and actually punished early arrival by forcing seating down low. If we're going to go GA make it actual GA and let the students sit where they want.
I would advocate now a simple "first come, first served" policy and make the seats FREE for anyone showing a valid student ID. Let them sit where they want and with who they want. You want early arrivals? That would do it. You want full student section? That would do it. And this would also start the football game "habit" that will lead to alumni ticket purchases in the future.
Like you I have come pretty far towards the student's viewpoint on seating. When I was at NU my ex girlfriend got the University to impose a "student activities fee" in exchange for free admission to all sporting events. Now that NU has had a few pretty good years of football I would be curious to see if the student ID policy has helped attendance.
Yep, that's how NU does it, though with a much smaller student population that tends to be slightly disinterested in sports.
The kicker is grad students aren't included.
So is there something M could learn from the NU system? Would it work better with a more interested student body?
Also, how do you know the NU undergrad is not as interested as other schools? The football team is as good now as ever.
Have any of you guys actually been to Ryan Field? There is a reason why it is a virtual home game for the visiting team whenever Michigan, Ohio, or Wisconsin play there. We shouldn't be comparing our issues and potential solutions with Northwestern -- it is apples and oranges.
Because it's pretty obvious once you spend about five minutes on campus that NU is a much, much different place than a school like Michigan or Ohio State in terms of sports interest. It's a small, private, bookish university that pretty much has to coax itself into giving a shit when Gameday isn't in town.
Hell, come basketball season, they're pretty much bribing students to show up. Free tickets aren't enough.
So it's OK if I fork over cash for a ticket but I'd better show up and, god forbid, not leave early. What next, only use the rest room during time outs? My money, my ticket, now leave me alone. And get the hell off my lawn!
Well done Code-man, I'm with you.
but i think it would make sense to sell student tickets a la carte before the season. and whatever seats aren't sold before a certain cut off date become open to the general alumni/population.
Seems like if it were up to some of you we wouldn't have a student section at all.
Hell, if that's the case, we might as well divorce the football team from the university altogether, seeing as football was created by the students, for the students, and clearly it's not about that any longer.
I mean, we wouldn't want that pesky university thing with all of those pesky students to get in the way of the football program, now would we?
Would Bama have done anything about this had Saban not said anything? Doubtful. Just goes to show the level that school is willing to go to in order to keep him there.
I get you're frustrated, Saban, but how about you just shut the hell up and focus on coaching your team, not on students leaving mid-way through 4th quarter after another 45-0 blowout.