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Is Alabama the best team you've seen play Michigan?

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:28 AM
#1
Erik_in_Dayton
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Is Alabama the best team you've seen play Michigan?

While trying to put Saturday into perspective, I've been trying to decide on/remember the best team that I've ever seen Michigan play.  I'm not sure I've seen Michigan play a better team.  The team that may have been superior was 1991 Florida State, who won 51-31 in the Big House against a Michigan team that would go to the Rose Bowl.   USC was very good in '03 and '06, too, but I don't believe they were as good as Alabama or '91 FSU.  I can't think of anyone else. 

Have you seen Michigan play a better team?  Does anyone remember the '68 Buckeyes? 

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:52 AM
#2
RakeFight
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Yes.

Yes.

I do not think that Alabama had the best set of skill position players that I have seen Michigan play in 25 years, but they did have the best offensive and defensive lines.

If ever there were a game that proved the concept that football is won in the trenches, this was the game.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:35 AM
#3
Michigan_Mike
Joined: 01/18/2009
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Three from my lifetime that

Three from my lifetime that stick out are the 91 Florida State team, 95 Ohio State, and 03 USC. Too hard to really compare given how far apart they are on terms of time.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:00 PM
(Reply to #3) #4
snarling wolverine
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Don't forget 1991 Washington,

Don't forget 1991 Washington, which ripped us 34-14 in the '92 Rose Bowl to cap off its national title season.  We could not block their pass rush (especially Steve Emtman) at all.  Tyrone Wheatley scored a late 50-yard TD to make the score slightly less embarrassing.

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:24 PM
(Reply to #85) #5
trueblueintexas
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This was the first one that

This was the first one that came to my mind at least defensively. Michigan's offense had no answer for Washington's defense (specifically the DL) the whole game. I would have to go back and watch to be sure, but in my memory I can't remember one drive where I really thought, now  they are getting it going. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:35 PM
(Reply to #109) #6
snarling wolverine
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IIRC, Desmond only caught one

IIRC, Desmond only caught one pass that day.  No one had ever shut him down before, FSU included.

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September 4th, 2012 at 6:12 PM
(Reply to #113) #7
trueblueintexas
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Even worse, the CB they put

Even worse, the CB they put on him most of the day (#5 I think) did the heisman pose over him after some play. Don't remember if it was a big hit or dropped pass, I just remember the sadness and embarassment.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:22 PM
(Reply to #3) #8
Commie_High96
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Didn't we beat 1995 OSU?

Didn't we beat 1995 OSU?

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:29 PM
(Reply to #132) #9
Gulogulo37
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LMGTFY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Ohio_State_Buckeyes_football_team Yup. They also lost in their bowl game. Looks like they had a killer schedule though.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:45 AM
#10
Thorin
Joined: 04/07/2009
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2002 Citrus vs. Tennessee was

2002 Citrus vs. Tennessee was a worse beatdown than 1991 FSU, but the FSU game is the one that that I always remember as the day Michigan was completely outclassed.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:49 AM
(Reply to #4) #11
bluenyc
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I think the drinking has

I think the drinking has gotten to me, because i checked the boxscore and it was bad.  I dont remember that game.  But, I do FSU1991.  Well, parts of it.  And we were a good team.  Only loss we had and we beat ND back then.  Best team we played, FSU is up there.  I would love to see Grbac, Wheatley and Des against this Alabama team.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:11 AM
(Reply to #11) #12
Tuebor
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Grbac, Wheatley, and Howard

Grbac, Wheatley, and Howard wouldn't have helped us.   We needed Hutchinson, Jansen, Backus, Long, Baas, Steele, Renes, Hall, and Woodley to have had a shot against Bama.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:59 AM
(Reply to #4) #13
EGD
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Beatdowns

That 2002 Citrus Bowl remains the worst, most soul-crushing loss I ever saw Michigan experience.

With the FSU loss, we at least scored 31 points.  Amp Lee ran circles around our defense and overall that game made it clear we needed to recruit more speed, which we promptly started doing.  But at least we were able to do something on the offensive side of the ball.  

In that Citrus Bowl, Michigan couldn't do anything on offense or defense.  It was basically a series of (i) go 3 & out, (ii) punt, (iii) give up long TD to Jason Witten, (iv) repeat. You left that game thinking UM was awful in every facet of the game and had really nothing to build on. 

I personally see this Alabama game as being more like the FSU game than that Tennessee game.  Yes, Michigan got dominated on both sides of the ball.  But we did do some things well, and there is a clear path to improvement (i.e., a couple more Hokian recruiting classes).    That said, I think what made both the FSU and Tennessee losses so difficult was that, while Michigan was an underdog in both games, nobody saw 20+ point blowouts coming.  With this Alabama game, it really wasn't much of a surprise.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:15 AM
(Reply to #17) #14
evenyoubrutus
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As it relates to the Alabama

As it relates to the Alabama game, I think this Michigan team is much better than the '01 team, so this massive defeat is far more significant.

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:52 PM
(Reply to #61) #15
EGD
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2001

Good point. 

But for perspective, though, remember that in 1997 Michigan won a national title, and then we posted double-digit wins in 1998, 1999, and 2000.  Getting rocked by some SEC power was not on our radar screen.  Perhaps it should have been, but I never saw that Citrus Bowl coming.

We knew that 2001 team wouldn't be as good as its predecessors due to the early exits by Henson & Terrell.  But even the games we had lost that year had all been very close: we lost on a couple flukely plays @ Washington, we lost to MSU on the Spartan Bob extra second play, and then we lost 26-20 to Ohio State in a game we had a chance to win despite being completely outplayed.  Getting totally shellacked by Tennessee was pretty jarring. 

With this Alabama game, deep down inside I knew we were toast.  I didn't think it would be over by the end of the first quarter, or that we'd wind up losing by 4 TD.  But it didn't come as a shock the way the Tennessee game did.  To me, the difference is that this 2012 team is still rebuilding and, though we are on an up-swing, we still have a couple years to go.  In 2001, that Citrus Bowl seemed to signal that we weren't just a Henson & a Terrell away from a championship team--that we had deeper problems and wouldn't be a serious title contender again until we figured out what was missing.

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:26 PM
(Reply to #115) #16
931 S State
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I always felt like the 2001

I always felt like the 2001 team exceeded expectations after the departure of Henson and Terrell .  Looking back at the roster, the lines on both sides of the ball (DL: Rumishek, Heuer, Lazarus, Orr; OL: Pape, Goodwin, Anderson, Petruziello, Solomon) were nothling like what we had seen the previous 3 years when you had a roster riddled with veteran multi-year, NFL caliber staters (Hutchinson, Backus, Brandt, Wilson, Renes, Hall).  Youth at the skill positions (other than Walker) and secondary.  It's actually pretty amazing to think that this team was just one special teams disaster and an itchy trigger finger away from playing OSU undefeated in A2.   

Tennessee, OTOH, was loaded (10 players drafted, 2 1st round DL!) and blew their opportunity to play Miami for the title by losing to LSU.  They certainly would have given the Canes a better game than Nebraska.

M benefited from a weak schedule in '01 and when they finally faced a legit opponent they got their ass kicked.  

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:22 AM
(Reply to #17) #17
M-Dog
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I think the difference is

I think the difference is that in 1991 we were a good team and still got outclassed.  In 2001, with Navarre as a freshman, we were not a very good team.  We would have been beaten pretty good by a number of teams that year.

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:26 AM
(Reply to #4) #18
saveferris
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'91 FSU sticks out for me too

'91 FSU sticks out for me too because that Michigan team talent-wise was pretty stacked.  I remember being at that game and being really excited at halftime because the score margin was only 2 points or something like that.  Winning the game and making a case for advancing to the number 1 ranking in the country seemed like a possibilty.  Then the 2nd half started and FSU just steamrolled us.

Alabama is a great team, but them shellacking us doesn't mean a whole lot other than confirming was we all feared coming into this game, that Michigan isn't in the same league as the elite teams in college football right now.

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September 4th, 2012 at 2:35 PM
(Reply to #68) #19
CLord
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All I remember from that FSU

All I remember from that FSU game was Casey Weldon seeming overrated, Keith Jackson stating "Buckley's got one!" on Buckley's early pick six of Grbac, and I also remember Desmond catching some crazy TD with a circus catch. The rest was a forgettable blur.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:46 AM
(Reply to #4) #20
Willis Ward
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Didn't we score 31 against

Didn't we score 31 against that FSU team?  (I recall it being 51-31, but I was 13 so my memory may be off).  What made the Alabama game so depressing was the dominance on both sides of the ball...I don't think you can say the same about FSU.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:02 PM
(Reply to #80) #21
snarling wolverine
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Yeah, it was 51-31.  They

Yeah, it was 51-31.  They scored two defensive TDs and scored another on a fake FG.  I think we were pretty close to them in terms of yardage.  As I was saying above, the Washington game (in the Rose Bowl that year) was worse IMO.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:40 AM
#22
bluenyc
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Defensively, it is Alabama. 

Defensively, it is Alabama.  But as a whole it was that 1991 FSU team.  Although, they threw some gimmick plays in there.  They had so much speed and we looked much slower, but we were out physicaled.  Bama just looked like a NFL team and we were a good college team. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 2:01 PM
(Reply to #5) #23
DustomaticGXC
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I don't agree with your

I don't agree with your assessment that FSU out physicaled us in 1991.  They had speed all over the place, but our defensive line was more out-schemed than manhandled and our offensive line pushed them around pretty good that day.  The power running game was on point.  Against Washington, we just got swallowed on both sides of the ball. 

 

FSU, though, was the first time I watched Michigan and thought the opponent's coach was better than ours.

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September 4th, 2012 at 3:36 PM
(Reply to #117) #24
bluenyc
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Sorry, you are right, meant

Sorry, you are right, meant to say we were not out physicaled.  You have to bear with me about my typing skills.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:41 AM
#25
ClearEyesFullHart
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Yes

But I've only really started paying attention in the early 90's.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:55 AM
(Reply to #7) #26
Michigan_Mike
Joined: 01/18/2009
MGoPoints: 1966
Totally forgot about that

Totally forgot about that Oregon team. Dennis Dixon was the perfect spread option college qb. If they hadn't been ravaged by injuries I think they would have won the MNC.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:42 AM
#27
Hagen
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It's hard to compare

across eras, but I think this team (and maybe last year's Bama squad) could compete with the best teams from any era.  The athleticism of their defense (from the big men up front to the secondary) is incredible, and their big ugglies on offense are all very, very good, with a few being all-american candidates.  The team may be lacking on big play ability in the passing game (when going up against guys not named Avery), but McCarron is a very solid QB who kept their offense humming.  Not to mention their three headed moster at RB.

I like the comparison to the '03 USC team, a squad that was very balanced on both sides.

Yes, these guys are very, very good, and we'll see how the rest of the SEC matches up to them this year.  This past weekend, IMO, showed more of how good Alabama was rather than what state our team is in (which is better than average B1G, nowhere near nationally elite).

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:45 AM
#28
EGD
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Best team Michigan has played in a while

I think this Alabama team is indeed the best one.  The 1991 FSU team is probably #2.  A few others some others (not mentioned yet) that might come close are 1994 Penn State, 1991 Washington, and 2001 Tennessee.  SUNY-Columbus has also had a number of teams that might qualify.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:53 AM
(Reply to #10) #29
Erik_in_Dayton
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1991 Washington

I forgot about them.  That's a good pick.  They were an excellent team. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:00 AM
(Reply to #13) #30
French West Indian
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Yeah,

I was beginning to wonder if anybody was going to mention that Huskies Rose Bowl team.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:51 AM
#31
BornInAA
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Alabama is a really good team

Alabama is a really good team this year (and last) however I believe some Michigan teams in the past could take them like the 97 squad.

The 97 squad had a better defense - Steel, Sword, Woodson, Hendricks, Hall, Jones, Peterson, Gold were all NFLers.

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September 4th, 2012 at 2:36 PM
(Reply to #18) #32
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
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Wow,

man I don't know.  I am not saying that the 1997 team was not a very, very good team, but Alabama means business.  97 was pre-BCS, and while Washington State was no push over (and OSU and PSU good teams as well), there was not a measuring stick that year as to just how good Michigan was as compared to the rest of the country, in particular the South.  I love me some 97, but I have watched a lof of college football in my day and let's just say that 2012 Alabama would give 1997 Michigan all they could handle (or maybe more appropriately said the other way around).  Bama was all kinds of fast, everywhere on the field. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:55 AM
#33
maizenbluenc
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Before Saturday

I would have said no, because last year I thought Bama's offense was so-so. I still think it is not the level of USC 2006, but that defense .... woah. Those guys came in like it was Tuesday at the office, and just executed with very few mistakes. They clearly did not overlook us, and Nick Saban put a heck of a gameplan together.

To me the funny thing is the all so polite fans were taunting us with S-E-C, S-E-C, when I think they should just be shout ROLL TIDE, or ALABAMA. Most of the SEC looks good but flawed and therefore beatable with a decent game plan and execution. Alabama was impressive.

It will be interesting to see if a team like USC can keep it close, cause some mistakes and beat Alabama. But they don't have the dual threat at QB. If our offense had more game time under their belts, and Denard could connect on more of his passes / Devin could haul them in, it would have opened the game up more. Enough? Not without a similar near flawless game by our defense.

Bottom line: end of season (with the injury caveat), this game looks different and we at least feel better coming out of it. After playing a few warm ups, maybe a little better. We just weren't ready, because practicing against each other, is nothing like playing a hard hitting team at full speed. I am glad by the way that the coaching staff "blooded" some of the Freshment. They will remember that experience and draw on it down the road.

So, long story short, this is the best team, that was fully prepared, we have come up against in a long time. (I think the '69 Buckeyes did not mentally prepare like Bama did. I also think the 2006 Wolverines did not mentally prepare for USC like Bama did.)

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:37 AM
(Reply to #15) #34
One Inch Woody ...
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This. This Alabama team

This.

This Alabama team executed to near perfection (Some penalties, but whatever). The rest of the SEC... ehh not so much. They might have some talent, but from watching most of the SEC games this week (it is week 1, so we'll see how it changes), they do not look to be near even Michigan's level of play.

With this experience, I have no doubt we're going to come out even stronger and possibly dominate the rest of the schedule. We've seen what it's like to play against the best, and if we can mentally raise our level, there is nobody left on the schedule to match it.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:56 AM
#35
ReadYourGuard
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FSU was dominant The first

FSU was dominant

The first Rose Bowl vs Washington in 91, I think

This Bama game

And Syracuse in 98. That was one of the worst games I ever witnessed at Michigan Stadium

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:05 AM
(Reply to #16) #36
Over40
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92 Rose Bowl

That was the one game that I kept thinking of.  It seemed like Washington just dominiated Michigan on both sides of the ball.  Howard could do nothing, and the d-line seemed to be in the backfield all game.  Washington won a share of the national title that year.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:07 PM
(Reply to #16) #37
squashman
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91 rose bowl vs Washington

I have never seen a Michigan team get dominated like the huskies did on that day.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
#38
Njia
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Glad you mentioned FSU '91

I remember that game well because we got absolutely smoked  -- at the Big House, no less. It was another game that felt "over" before most people had even found their seats. 

As it turned out, we had a pretty good season in '91, FSU notwithstanding. That's why I'm not yet particularly worried about Team 133. Now, if AFA gives us trouble (if it's even all that "close" regardless of the scoreboard) then I might feel a bit more uncomfortable than I do right now.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
#39
EGD
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1998 Syracuse

That 1998 Syracuse team went 8-4, I believe.  They matched up well against Michigan during our Jim Hermann-doesn't-worry-about-mobile-QBs phase and caught us during our national championship hangover, but I don't think they merit consideration as one of our greatest all-time opponents.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:05 AM
#40
Naked Bootlegger
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FSU '91

I was at the Big House as a flabbergasted UM undergrad.   They beat us good at home, and we were a quality team.   Terrell Buckley INT returned for an early pick 6 set the tone for this game.

Some interesting tidbits about this game:

(1)  We played HOME against Florida St.  We never traveled to Tallahassee to reciprocate, at least to my knowledge.   This was a bygone era of being able to draw big-time non-conference opponents without having to play at a neutral site or sign up for a home & home series.   Strange.

(2)  WHY, CANHAM/SCHEMBECHLER/WEIDENBACH (don't know what AD of this era scheduled the game!) DID YOU SCHEDULE THIS GAME AGAINST A VASTLY SUPERIOR TEAM?  

I may correct myself to say 'Bama '12 >> FSU '91...we'll see how the season shakes out.   Washington '91 was also a phenomenal opponent on both sides of the ball.

 

 

 

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:21 AM
(Reply to #22) #41
M-Wolverine
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That's because it was still back when FSU

Was trying to prove themselves as a national power. (People forget not that long before it was a woman's college). And Bowden wisely took the method of playing anyone, anytime, anyplace, because he knew his conference sucked.  So they'd go to places beat them, grab some sod for their "graveyard" to take back with them, and show they were for real.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:27 AM
(Reply to #31) #42
M-Dog
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I believe that FSU was an

I believe that FSU was an independent back then.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:08 PM
(Reply to #69) #43
M-Wolverine
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Yeah, they had joined in 1991

But didn't start playing ACC teams till 1992.  So they had a mismoshed schedule.  And still lost to the other two Florida teams.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:24 PM
(Reply to #69) #44
Naked Bootlegger
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Yup...

...I think you're right.  FSU was a free agent team, so getting them to Ann Arbor wasn't as big a deal as today's super-conference logistical nightmares.   Thx for the memory refresher.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:23 AM
(Reply to #22) #45
Erik_in_Dayton
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scheduling

Michigan used to play multiple big-time non-conference opponents every couple of years.  For example, in '88 they played at ND and then played Miami (FL) at home the next week.  The 1991 schedule included not only ND and FSU but also a game at Boston College.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:06 AM
(Reply to #32) #46
ReadYourGuard
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In 84 we played defending

In 84 we played defending Natl Champs Miami (YTM) and Washington ooc.

ND, SoCarolina, Maryland in 85

ND, Oregon St, and FSU in 86





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September 4th, 2012 at 10:10 AM
#47
mongoose0614
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Kind of hard to compare but I will say this.....

This is the biggest discrepancy between a Michigan team and an oppenent when it comes to talent, speed, strength, size and youth.

Other teams mentioned were extrememly talented and a case can be made for all of them but we were much more physical of a team.

Yes, FSU had stallions vs our plow horses but they didn't beat us up like Bama did.  

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:16 AM
(Reply to #23) #48
g_reaper3
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I agree.

Plus, we had a remote but possible chance of winning against FSU late in the game.  Michigan was down 44-31 and driving for a TD when Grbac threw a pick 6.  Now, dont get me wrong, we had to get the TD and then an onside kick and another TD all within a few minutes.  But there was a chance.  I didnt feel like we even had a chance against Alabama sometime fairly early in the game.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:24 AM
(Reply to #29) #49
M-Wolverine
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Ditto.

We were outclassed, but we could hang with them offensively. We just couldn't do anything with them defensively. They were clearly the better team, and they had to be good because that was a pretty good Michigan team, but I wouldn't rank that FSU team as one of the all time greats. They were only the second best team we played that year. (Though that Washington squad was the biggest mash-up of steroid heads and convicts we may have ever played).

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:15 AM
#50
Yo_Blue
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Second Best

At the top, I have to put the 1975-76 Oklahoma team that we played in the Orange Bowl.  We were ranked #4 and OK was #2 at 10-1.  Their defense was the best I have seen to this day.  The Alabama team has more offensive weapons than did Oklahoma, but overall toughness goes to the old guys.

As a point of perspective, Michigan had 33 yards passing while Oklahoma had 66.  Rick Leach was 2-16 passing and his two completions were for 17 and 16 yards.  Apparently our passing philosophy hasn't changed in 40 years - chuck it up!

The Oklahoma Boomer Sooner chants were no where near as annoying as Roll Tide however.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:28 AM
(Reply to #30) #51
Yo_Blue
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I piss on your lawn

The question was regarding the best team you've seen Michigan play.  I was in the band for the '76 Orange Bowl.  I can't help it if you're 12 and the best team you've seen was Iowa last year.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:52 PM
(Reply to #92) #52
bringthewood
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As least he has been weaned

As least he has been weaned.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:44 AM
(Reply to #25) #53
bringthewood
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I second this!

Michigan was very good and got dominated by Oklahoma.  There were 2-3 Selmon brothers on Oklahoma's D that went on to play in the NFL.  The score did not indicate how a very good Michigan team was manhandled Oklahoma's D.

I've seen Michigan lose by more points but never shut down like this.

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:51 AM
(Reply to #25) #54
Wave83
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Oklahoma 75-76

I thought I was going to be the only one to remember Oklahoma at the 76 Orange Bowl.  Oklahoma's performance was as dominate as anything I can remember, and I think even more dominate than Alabama on Saturday (although it was close).  The Selmon brothers totally shut down Michigan and its freshman quarterback, Rick Leach.

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September 4th, 2012 at 4:54 PM
(Reply to #43) #55
UWSBlue
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This

That OU squad was stacked and Swizter was rolling.

Worst beatdowns in sequence

I. Versus OU in the Orange Bowl

2. Versus Washington in the Rose Bowl

3. Versus Tennessee in the Citrus Bowl

4. Versus FSU at home

5. Versus Alabama at Jerry World

6. Versus Syracuse at home

7. Versus various USC teams at the Rose Bowl

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September 4th, 2012 at 5:21 PM
(Reply to #43) #56
snarling wolverine
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That game was before my time,

That game was before my time, but the final score was 14-6 . . . was it really that bad?  It seems that at least our defense came to play.

http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/football/bowls/1976orng.htm

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:39 PM
(Reply to #129) #57
geno
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Boomer Sooner

That Oklahoma team was stacked and we hung with them.Winning TD on reverse to Tinker Owens. Dan Jilek was there but missed and Owens was gone. Was there. What a great trip. Met Roger Szrafranski. Wish Elzinga could complete a pass. Saw a practice at Miami baseball field. Jim Betts was at the gate and  let us in. We said "Jim Betts" and he welcomed us in. Gordie Bell couldn't throw a pass in practice so no surprise he threw pick in game . He threw TD in OSU game to Jim Smith that was total bad pass. Bo should have retired that play. Met Barry Switzer going through OK hotel. Mom loved him forever after that. "Oh there's my old friend Barry." Went to Joe's Stone Crab. Great OK team . Great bowl trip.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:12 AM
#58
Perkis-Size Me
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I've never personally seen

I've never personally seen the '91 FSU game, but it would be hard for me to imagine many teams being better, if any, than the one we faced on Saturday night. Every position on their team is packed with NFL talent. On a collegiate level, that was easily one of the most physical, brutal, punishing football teams I've ever seen play the game.

Don't want to imagine how bad it might have been if guys like Richardson, Barron, and Hightower all elected to return.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:13 AM
#59
g_reaper3
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Probably this Alabama team.

Others were USC in 07 and 04 Rose Bowls (06 and 03 seasons), Penn State in 94, FSU in 91, Washington in 92 Rose Bowl (91 season), Miami in 88. 

It is hard to compare somewhat this early with Alabama because we really dont know how good Michigan is.  But my guess is that Alabama is dominant like last year.

Florida State was probably the most shocking as our defense never let in points like that under Bo.  Unfortunately it was the beginning of a 20+ year trend of our defense not being what it was (with a few exception years).  People rationalize saying that college football is more wide open but I think the Bama's and the LSU's show you that defense can still reign supreme. 

Hopefully we return to being a top defense under Hoke and Mattison. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:35 AM
#60
M-Wolverine
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We don't know how good Alabama is yet.

Maybe we just suck. But from the eye test, they looked really good.  But it goes to the problem people are having in this thread...are we talking biggest discrepancy between a Michigan team and someone else? (a great team vs. an 8-4 Michigan team might look better than a great team vs. a 10-2 Michigan team)  Or just flat out the best team top to bottom?

Bama was good, and deserves to be on any list. But I don't think we're great, either. The best team I've ever sense was the '03 USC team. That team was at least close to this Bama team defensively (maybe better..they might have had more experience...could change by the end of the season), but lots better offensively.  That team had 52 players get a cup of coffee in the NFL, and two heisman winners on it. And back up quarterbacks who were NFL starters. Reggie Bush, Shawn Cody, Keary Colbert, Matt Leinart, Mike Williams, etc, etc.  

Alabama may have the line and running backs to match with that (as a group), but the QB and WR match up isn't close. That team was a great defensive team...and they were better on offense. It's just because we were darn good that it didn't look worse. We actually held them to the fewest points they scored after their opening game (which they shut out Auburn in, so they didn't need that many points). They did they annual blow one to Cal game, but that was the best team I've seen (us play).

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:37 AM
#61
DTWNwa
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It happens to everybody

91-FSU

91 -Washington

03- USC

Remember Bama hasnt been this BAMA for that long, they were sucking canal water after the 2000 season until Saban's 2nd year in 08. Ohio, USC, FSU, Oklahoma, all of the aformentioned programs have have multi-year periods where they were not world beaters. We'll be fine and we will get to the point where we can compete and win with any program in the Country very shortly. 

Go Blue!

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:45 AM
#62
energyblue1
Joined: 03/19/2010
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91 Washington.....

91 Washington in the rosebowl is the best imo.............(but I preface that one because Steve Everrit didn't play and that messed up our oline)

91 Fsu, remember Grbac had 2 int's returned for td's...  that's at least a 14pt swing given to fsu.....   their offense was no more unstoppable then ours was.  They had a slightly better defense...and didn't Lance Dottin miss that game as well...  I know Everitt played with a broken jaw which was amazing...

2000 Orange Bowl...  that team was tough...one of the most physical games I remember..Brady/Terrell was the difference

03/06 usc, I thought were great but when their program immediatly took a drop off after balco got exposed through the Ting Brothers there....

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:47 AM
#63
Jinxed
Joined: 09/15/2009
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You guys are overreacting.

You guys are overreacting. 2007 Oregon and 2006 would beat this Bama squad. Notre Dame last year could have easily beat us the same way this Bama squad beat us if they hadn't choked it up... And @ the Big House to boot. We scored two TDs on that mighty Alabama defense and Denard's crappy arm got us 200 yards on the air.

You guys just don't want to accept that both of our lines are terrible and this is going to be a long year. It's easier to say that Bama is the best team we've ever played and leave it at that.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:52 AM
(Reply to #40) #64
NateVolk
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Interesting take.  Terrible

Interesting take. 

Terrible is sort of a snap judgment. Football being a game of resistance, you run into the Alabama offensive line and you could tend to look terrible. Many  people say it could be the best ever in college football.

So the jury is out. Count me as worried for sure.

Offensive line will probably be fine. There are veterans and it's well coached.  Losing Molk didn't help though.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:59 AM
(Reply to #45) #65
Jinxed
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That's not the best line in

That's not the best line in cfb ever. Michigan's had better OLs. We have too many unproven players on our DL. This Bama team doesn't get to 14 points vs the 2006 Michigan team.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:09 AM
(Reply to #47) #66
NateVolk
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Well lots of people are

Well lots of people are saying it could be.   Look at the YPC stats of their last 3 teams.  They are the running equivalent of what Texas Tech was to the passing game. 

For guys like us, the discussion is pretty subjective. I'd probably go with a guy like Michigan's linebacker's coach who said prior to the game that they very well could be v. our opinion of what we think we are seeing.

The rest of the season will show us whether you are overreacting or not. That game was not a fair measure because of the experience and NFL level talent against them.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:56 AM
(Reply to #40) #67
bluenyc
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I dont think he has a crappy

I dont think he has a crappy arm.  He hit that long 70 yd pass to Gallon and it was mostly in the air.  Even Musberger and Herbstriet said it was a great long throw.  50 or 60 yards in the air.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:03 AM
(Reply to #46) #68
Jinxed
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He has a strong arm but with

He has a strong arm but with limited accuracy... And his mental game isn't very good either, he consistently misreads easy throws and goes for blanketed receivers. Plus he often forces the ball down field when he can get 5yds+ if he took off.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:06 AM
(Reply to #40) #69
Jinxed
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I meantto say 2007 Oregon and

I meantto say 2007 Oregon and 2006 USC... But I can't edit it anymore

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:47 AM
#70
phork
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AppSt was pretty darn good.

AppSt was pretty darn good.  2 blocks.  Unheard of.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:07 AM
(Reply to #41) #71
French West Indian
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Agreed.

And don't forget that they were (2 time?) defending national champions too!

Also, I seem to recall thinking that the 2008 Toledo squad was a beast too.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:29 AM
(Reply to #41) #72
Urban Warfare
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I'm going to get negged for

I'm going to get negged for this, but I think App State has to be in the discussion if you're talking about single game performances.  Bama performed as expected, while App State didn't just exceed expectations, it curbstomped them. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 3:27 PM
(Reply to #71) #73
oriental andrew
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No

You're in the wrong discussion.  This is about the BEST TEAM you've seen Michigan play. 

Appy State doesn't come CLOSE to being even in the top tier of teams Michigan has played.  Most of the buckeye teams from teh 90's are better, as are some of the 90's PSU teams, Oregon, Alabama, USC, FSU, Washington, maybe a couple of those nd teams... 

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:49 AM
#74
NateVolk
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Miami in 88 was amazing.

Miami in 88 was amazing. Michigan played great that day and was a Rose Bowl winning team that season in it's own right.  

That was a tweener year for Miami as they missed out on the National Title because of a very controversial 1 point loss at Notre Dame. That Miami team beat no. 1 Florida State by 30, No. 11 LSU by 40 in Baton Rouge, and No. 6 Nebraska by 20 in the Orange Bowl.

I thought the 2011 Michigan State Spartans also just on the basis of being the toughest in the history of the game maybe. No one's mentioned them.

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September 4th, 2012 at 10:51 AM
#75
bjk
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I don't think

the '68 OSU team was as well-put-together as the '69 team, which makes the upset all the more surprising. '68 OSU had several key games by which they slithered to the MNC; '69 OSU was never in a close game until they lost to UM. So I would put the '69 team over the '68 team. It just so happens that Bo was able to get ready for them with mostly Bump's team while staying under the radar; I think Woody overlooked us.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:33 AM
(Reply to #44) #76
Urban Warfare
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Woody never overlooked

Woody never overlooked Michigan.  He was obsessed with them well before Bo got to Ann Arbor, and that wasn't going to change just because it was Bo's first year.   1969 was the result of bad passes and a couple of stupid fumbles. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:04 AM
#77
M-Dog
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Across the board talent and

Across-the-board talent and execution-wise, Albama is the best.

But they are not the best overall.  With Alabama, we knew what we had to do to compete, we just could not do it with the players at hand.

The best teams that I've seen play Michigan were ones that not only outclassed us in talent and execution, but also outclassed us in scheme and coaching.  In these games, we were completely flummoxed across the board:

- Washington 1991 season Rose Bowl.  This was the worst I've ever seen, even worse than FSU that year.  The Huskies employed a blitzing 1985-Chicago Bears defense that compeletely ovewhelmed us.  We just did not know what to do.  We had Grbac and Desmond but it still did not matter.  Our response turned out to be the worst thing we could do - rather than spreading them out and hitting short passes and screens and draws, we bunched our O_line into extremely tight splits, making our QB and RB a static sitting duck target.  By the third quarter, I just wanted it to be over.

- Oregon 2007.  Another flummox.  We already established against App State that we did not know how to defend the spread, now we had to do it against elite talent.  We were chasing ghosts.  The epitome of this was their sand-lot Statue of Liberty play, probably the most humilitating play I ever saw against Michigan. 

- 1991 FSU.  We had just beaten Notre Dame on Grbac-to-Howard on 4th and 1.  We were riding high and ready for a shootout.  We actually hung with them pretty well for the first half in a shoot out.  But in the second half, they just kept coming.  They passed over and around us, they ran through us, they fooled us with trick plays, over and over.  We had never seen this kind of relentless onslaught before.

The key takeaway from these games, though, is that we learned from them.  We beat Washington a year later in the Rose Bowl with a more dynamic offense.  We used the Washington defense as one of our role models for our own 1997 defense.  We beat Urban Meyer's and Tim Tebow's Florida spread team by utilizing a better contain defense and by taking the handcuffs off of our offense.  

Blowouts are painful, but not permanent.

 

 

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September 5th, 2012 at 12:00 AM
(Reply to #48) #78
robpollard
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Overwhelmed was the world against Washington

As someone who attended the FSU game and only watched the Washington game on TV, it's not exactly comparable, but I thought Washington was definitely the superior team (thought both were obviously excellent teams).

At least again FSU, Michigan could score. It was 25-23 at one point and it was a crazy game with scores happenening all sorts of ways. Against Washington, it seemed like our offense (which was/is the best UM offense in the last 40 years) could not do ANYTHING. Desmond Howard, who had been awesome all year, even against FSU, looked like he didn't deserve to be starting WR, let alone the Heisman winner.

It's one thing to lose, decisevely in the end, a shootout to FSU -- at least you can foolishly dream that if you didn't do a couple stupid things (e.g., 2 pick sixes) things might have gone your way. Against Washington, I had no illusions - they were just better. A lot better.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:03 AM
#79
BlueinLansing
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Ask us after

the season.  Alabama could fall flat and lose a couple or they could run the table.  Who knows 14 points might be the most Alabama gives up all year.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:06 AM
#80
JHendo
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This Bama team probably is

This Bama team probably is the best I've seen U of M play.  The Texas and USC teams we played in the Rose Bowls in the early/mid 2000's were pretty good but not quite there, and I honestly wasn't too impressed with OSU's national championship team.

A surprise pick for a team that may have been better that I remember (I was only 6 when we played FSU, so I can't say I remember that) is Oregon in '07.  Before they lost Dennis Dixon later in the season and nose dived, they were most likely on their way to a National Championship and a Heisman trophy winner.  Only OSU held us to fewer points that year, but they only put up a 1/3 of the points that Oregon did against us.  At the time the Ducks didn't seem that great because of how we had done the week before, but in retrospect after the decent season we ended up having, I was definitely impressed with that team when Dixon was at the helm.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:12 AM
(Reply to #52) #81
French West Indian
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I was wondering if...

...anybody was going to mention that Texas Rose Bowl team.  I don't recall their record that year but Vince Young was a monster against us and went on to dominate the next season.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:12 PM
(Reply to #59) #82
M-Wolverine
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They were 11-1

And only lost to the #2 team in the country, Oklahoma, that went on to play (and get destroyed by) USC in the national championship game. The fact that if our DBs hadn't trimmed their fingernails for that game we would have won says something about the talent on that team.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
(Reply to #89) #83
Urban Warfare
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Wait, what do fingernails

Wait, what do fingernails have to do with anything?

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:51 PM
(Reply to #100) #84
M-Wolverine
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Kinda tongue in cheek

On their game winning field goal one of our DBs got a hand on the kick, but there wasn't enough contact to knock it away from the uprights...it just kinda wobbled in. If he had gotten a bit more of it the kick would have been blocked and we would have won.  He just needed longer fingers.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:15 PM
(Reply to #59) #85
JHendo
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Their only loss I believe was

Their only loss I believe was to Oklahoma earlier in the year.  I don't recall the game very well, but I think it may have been a low scoring shutout.  Anyways, since the Sooners went undefeated that year until the National championship game, I think it's safe to say that Texas team was pretty damn good.  In retorspect, I'm not sure how we only lost by 1 on a last second field goal...

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:10 AM
#86
Noahdb
Joined: 07/21/2008
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The 2004 Ohio team had

The 2004 Ohio team had something like five first-round NFL draft picks. That team also had two other guys that would get drafted the next year.

 

Was it the 2002 team that had 14 players drafted?

 

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:13 AM
#87
cheesheadwolverine
Joined: 10/25/2008
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I'm 23, so yes.  I thought of

I'm 23, so yes.  I thought of the 1991 FSU team that seems to have delivered a legendary ass-whooping, but I don't remember them, being 2 at the time.  This might be the first time I have seen a good Michigan team (not the 2008 version) in a game where I can't rationalize a way it cold have been close (usually I can convince myself that if we got this call, and this bounce and one more block here, things could have turned out differently).  I don't know if I've ever seen a top-25 defensive line get blown up all day like that.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:16 AM
#88
biakabutuka exp...
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Best defense I can remember

Best defense I can remember going back to 1991, period.

The offense was great, but not historically great. Let's not forget 2007 Oregon, as hard as we've tried.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:23 AM
(Reply to #62) #89
bluenyc
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I think Oregon had a very

I think Oregon had a very good offense that year, but their offenses now seem better.  I think we were extremely flat and showed no energy until it was too late.  Hart showed great energy. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:25 AM
(Reply to #65) #90
Roughneck
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Wow

Sorry that he offended you with his opinion. Great comment though, very insightful.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:46 AM
(Reply to #65) #91
ReadYourGuard
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Wow. Shouldn't you be

Wow. Shouldn't you be holding your place in line to talk to Valenti and rip apart everything about Michigan? "Long time listener Mike Love the show. I'm a Michigan fan, but Denard sucks, Mike. Hoke is overrated. Brandon is ruining Michigan. Sparty is the new benchmark. You guys are gonna kick our butt"



Piss off.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:27 AM
#92
moffle
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I wouldn't really put 2006

I wouldn't really put 2006 USC in the same class as 2012 Alabama. They were good but relative to other USC teams around that time, it was actually sort of a down year. I am still surprised that they beat us so comfortably in the Rose Bowl.

2007 Oregon would get demolished by Alabama IMO.

To answer the OP's question, yeah I think Alabama will prove to be the best team I've seen us play, though my memory doesn't go back much beyond 2006.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:29 AM
#93
duelThreat
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Not completely the same but...

Indiana is the probably one of the best offenses we'll see in the B1G this year..

/2010'd

/Small sample size

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:29 AM
#94
RickH
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I think people are

I think people are overestimating how good this Alabama team really is.  Last year, they were elite (though the OOC competition still brings questions up in my book).  I think Alabama's strengths just matched up really well with Michigan's weaknesses.  I think Alabama is a top 5 team because of their OFFENSE and that they have a good defense but they're still vunerable for 21 points if facing a good offensive team.  They might be better than top 5 this year because a lot of teams had problems in week 1 and only a couple teams actually impressed, despite pretty much everybody playing weak competition.

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September 5th, 2012 at 8:17 PM
(Reply to #72) #95
RollTideRoll
Joined: 09/05/2012
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I still need to see more from

I still need to see more from them no disrespect to M but SEC defenses won't be as easy to push around. Don't take that the wrong way it's easy to see in recruiting M will be elite again you are M. Michigan was simply out maned talent and depth but I agree on playing to weakness. The plan was contain Denard..if you watched Bamas DL they were staying on the line of scrimmage keeping him from ducking under using his skill.

Bama has work and improvement to make though. I didn't like the lack in the second half. Sometimes I think that's Saban control the clock don't beat yourself wear them down approach. I can't say I didn't think Bama would win but I lost my money like Floyd..lol anywho Go Blue! Beat Notre Damn

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:42 AM
#96
Heinous Wagner
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Oregon 2007

Yes, you can make a case that part of this was a hangover from The Horror, but still, I can't remember a more thorough dismantling. I wonder if this was the game that made Lloyd decide to quit, even more than App State.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:43 AM
#97
Willis Ward
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Yes.  98 OSU being second.

Yes.  98 OSU being second.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:54 PM
(Reply to #77) #98
Urban Warfare
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You'd '98 OSU over '06 OSU? 

You'd put '98 OSU over '06 OSU?  I'd argue that '06 OSU was deeper and had equal or better talent at every position except the secondary.

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:30 PM
(Reply to #104) #99
snarling wolverine
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I thought your '98 team had

I thought your '98 team had it all.  I didn't really see any weaknesses.  (Based on the bowl, '06 apparently didn't protect the passer all that well.)  How they lost to a 6-6 MSU team is one of the great mysteries.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:32 PM
(Reply to #111) #100
Urban Warfare
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Easy mystery to solve: 

Easy mystery to solve:  Cooper heard he was playing Michigan and stopped listening. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:44 AM
#101
bright future
Joined: 01/12/2009
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That 1988 Notre Dame team

Beat 4 teams in the top 7 of the final AP poll the year... # 2 Miami, #4 Michigan  #5 West Virginia and  #7 Southern Cal. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:50 AM
#102
AA2Denver
Joined: 02/01/2011
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The best team I can remember

The best team I can remember was the 1991 ('92 Rose Bowl) Washington team. Michigan was loaded with Desmond, Weatley, Elvis, Erik Anderson, Derick Anderson, Skrep...

They wooped us. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:50 AM
#103
ironman4579
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I think that 2007 Oregon team

I think that 2007 Oregon team gets overrated a bit.  Mike Hart put up 130 yards or so on the ground at 5.1 a carry.  Does 2007 Michigan get 5.1 per carry against this Alabama team? 

Let's also not forget that Michigan led that game 7-3 at one point and easily could have been up 14-3 if not for a Henne pick on the goalline on the first drive.  Plus If I remember correctly (and it's very possible I do not) Michigan was only down 18-7 when Henne went out.  Mallet played the entire second half of that game plus a good portion of the second quarter.  I still think Oregon wins, as their offense was absolutely deadly, but Michigan probably could have kept it a little closer.

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:33 PM
(Reply to #82) #104
snarling wolverine
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I'm not sure, but I think we

I'm not sure, but I think we actually outgained Oregon in the first half that day, despite trailing 32-7.  Or maybe it was just the first quarter.  But yeah, we did move the ball on them, but the red zone was a disaster.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:48 PM
(Reply to #82) #105
geno
Joined: 11/23/2009
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Mallett

The name everyone will spell wrong forever. Even the A2 News would do it. They made a lot of typos. I worked there and we would see the mistakes and be amazed.

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:52 AM
#106
JamieH
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 12968
Can't really tell yet

We won't know until we find out if this year's Michigan team is any good or not.  There is a possiblity that the 2011 team significantly overachieved and that this year's team is not that great.  Only time will tell.

The 2 '91 teams mentioned (FSU and Washington) will always get my vote because they both totally dominated a stacked Michigan team that went to the Rose Bowl and sent tons to talent to the NFL.  FSU in particular was a wakeup call that Michigan had to start recruiting more speed because they just ran us off the field.  I don't think I had ever seen that happen before that game. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
#107
Der Alte
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Way back when

The '69 Buckeyes were an awesome team, but in The Game even they could'nt overcome six turnovers against a very decent M team. So under those circumstances you couldn't really call them one of the best teams M has ever faced.

The '91 FSU team had, among other great players, a CB named Terrell Buckley who returned one Grbak pass for a TD. That team was good, but M kinda let that game get out of hand.

The '89 USC team that M faced in the 1990 Rose Bowl was an excellent team both on O and D. Definitely one of the better teams M has ever played.

The '94 Penn State team was one of the best ever to play in M Stadium. That they did not play for the national title was a national tragedy.

But today even the '69 Buckeyes are ancient history. And going back any farther to the Army or ND teams of the 30s and 40s is completely apples and oranges. So I'd vote for the '94 Penn State team as among the best M has faced in modern times. My recollection is that their O-line was all 5th-year seniors, they had Kerry (?) Collins at QB, good RBs, and one very good WR (Scott?) from Michigan. The D was very solid as well.
 

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:08 PM
#108
LSAClassOf2000
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In Recent Memory

To answer the OP's question, I would have to say, "Yes, in recent memory".

It's been a while, I believe, since we played a team that was deep, technically sound and physically dominating at the level of this Alabama team. We managed to put up what would amount to a middling performance in comparison to their opponents last year, which bodes well for the rest of the year in a way, but we did seem outclassed.

That being said, I don't know if we were outschemed, and as someone above mentioned, it's been the combination of those two things which have made certain games especially painful in the past. Actually, I would even perhaps go as far as to say that just being outschemed by a team that we could likely beat in another scenario has been painful as well.

2007 Oregon definitely comes to mind as a game where we were basically outschemed by the spread - watching Dennis Dixon essentially have his way with the defense to the tune of almost 400 yards by himself was heart-wrenching, especially so after what had happened the week before against a similar offense packed with lesser talent.

I would also cast a vote for 1991 FSU as being one of the best teams we ever faced - looking at that year's roster and the talent that we had (and how much went to the NFL of this roster), you wouldn't think a 51-31 loss at home was likely, but if I remember, Michigan threw 4 INTs, two of which werre returned for TDs, one of them by a defensive end. Seven different FSU players scored TDs actually in what was an offense that was sound, fast and stacked just about everywhere (granted, this one has had a while to mutate in memory). Especially in the second half, they literally ran away from us.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:18 PM
#109
CC_MFan
Joined: 10/05/2010
MGoPoints: 259
No.

This Alabama team is tough and very good on the line of scrimmage.  Their offense is very limited and their defense has yet to play a good team that passes the ball effectively.  I think that the Miami teams we played in the 80's, the FSU team of early 90's and several OSU teams were better.  I think the reason this question is asked is how they dominated us.  That was because they were better, and that we have serious issues all across the board on offense and defense.

I love Denard and what he does for this team, but he  struggles greatly in the passing game.  Whether it is reading the D or just knowing when to scramble.  He seems to lack the necessary intuition on when to leave or move within the pocket.  Our running game is very average due to the lack of a dominating Oline and or great RB.  Our Dline is 2 years away, our LB's are 1 year away and our DB's are 2 years away.  JMHO 

We just have to weather another year or so before we are back to where we want to be.  I love how BH is recruiting and addressing the team issues. 

 

GO BLUE,

 

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:28 PM
#110
Vasav
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Surprised Nobody Mentioned '07 Oregon

While they ended up fizzling, that team was unstoppable with Dennis Dixon at the helm, and in hindisight a mark of Oregon's dominant future. That game was also the ultimate kick when you're down, coming when it did an all. However, it did come against a team that was missing their starting QB, RB and LT. I still think they ought to be in the conversation.

As for this year's 'Bama - they looked very good. But (and I hate this) I don't know how good we are. The most impressive thing was their O-line, but we knew our D line was a weakness, and I'm not sure how much of that was them being good and us being bad. I guess we'll find out.

Otherwise,  I think they are beatable. We did have some success on them on offense, and I do think we didn't exploit what their D gave us as well as we should have. Herbie and Musberger were lauding McCarron, but I thought our pass D did okay - not good, but we had our moments on them when they dropped back. A team with a better passer and a running game not reliant on only their quarterback will have success on this D. A team with a better front seven may not stop their running game, but can force McCarron to win the game. He didn't win the game against Michigan - his numbers were comparable to Denard's.

I certainly think there's an arugment that this is the greatest talent deficit I've seen between Michigan and an opponent on the field (of course 2008 and 2009 may make that not true either), but I don't think this is the best team we've played. Team 133 is not as good as, say, team 127 or even team 132. The fact that the '06 Trojans thoroughly dominated what I thought at the time was the best Michigan football team I'd ever seen in the Rose Bowl makes me want to say they are better.

Alabama may prove me wrong. And they certainly deserve the benefit of the doubt. But I'd like to see how both of our seasons turn out before calling them the best I've seen Michigan play.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:31 PM
#111
Tater
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MGoPoints: 30564
The best

Alabama has the best collection of personnel I have ever seen on a college football field.  They don't have a QB who is going to put up gaudy numbers, but they are so big and fast at every position that they don't need one.  

This team would push the FSU '91 team up and down the field almost as badly as they did Michigan.  Considering how training methods have changed in the last ten years, I think this team would physically overpower any college team in the 1900's, and the closest one I've seen to this one is the USC team that trounced Michigan in the 2007 Rose Bowl, providing a crushing end to what had been a good season.

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:49 PM
#112
mackbru
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Good question. Although I

Although I wouldn't argue with anyone who says this Bama team is tops, I can't help thinking that the last two USC teams M faced in the Rose Bowl (2004 and 2007) were as good as any team we've faced. I realize the final scores didn't look so bad. But, jeez, those USC teams were like mini-NFL squads. They were in complete control, and both teams knew it.

But of course the answer to the OP's question can't really be answered until after this season. I assume the question isn't really about single-game dominance, which isn't the best barometer -- Mississippi State, despite its dominance in the Gator Bowl, was hardly the best team M has faced. Context matters. If this Bama team runs the table, then they may well be the best opponent ever; if Bama ends up going 9-3, perhaps Saturday's loss will say more about Michigan's weakness than Bama's strength.

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:58 PM
(Reply to #96) #113
EGD
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USC

I remember turning to my buddy in the first quarter of the 2007 Rose Bowl, with the score still at 0-0, and saying "We're doomed." 

To that point I had only seen USC on television.  Seeing them im person, I just felt we were completely outmatched physically.  And that was one of the best Michigan teams of the past 10 or 15 years. 

Also, after I said, "we're doomed," my buddy's girlfriend looked back and me and said, "you have poopy pants."  FWIW.

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September 4th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
(Reply to #116) #114
M-Dog
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That was the most frustrating

That was the most frustrating game I ever saw.  Both teams wanted to run, but neither could. The score at halftime was something like 3-3.

But then in the second half, USC adjusted and went to the air with success.  Instead of countering them with our own air attack which was pretty decent with Henne at the helm, we kept trying to run it up the middle.  Lloyd and DeBord just would not adjust the way USC was willing to do, despite their original intentions.  Game over.

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:34 PM
#115
oHOWiHATEohioSTATE
Joined: 11/22/2010
MGoPoints: 2861
Ill say it was

USC in the 07 Rose Bowl. We may have been upset we were not in the MNC game but they still totally dismantled us.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:55 PM
(Reply to #97) #116
FrankMurphy
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I don't think USC was that

I don't think USC was that much better than us that year. We played them to a 3-3 tie in the first half after neither team could establish a running game. In the second half, they blew the game wide open by exploiting our weak secondary while we continued our futile effort to run the ball against their front seven. Coaching lost us that game, not talent.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:36 PM
#117
FrankMurphy
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For now, I'm going to say '91

For now, I'm going to say '91 Washington. That was probably the best team in the history of Washington Football. Steve Emtman was a beast, and he was named co-MVP of that game. He also finished fourth in the Heisman voting and got an invite to the ceremony, which is rare for a non-skill position player.  

It's tempting to say FSU '91, but they fizzled toward the end of the season and lost to both of their in-state rivals. Alabama may very well turn out to be the best, but we won't know until the end of the season. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:44 PM
#118
BigBlue86
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a few bowl opponents

I don't think anyone has mentioned the '05 Rose Bowl loss to Texas. No, it wasn't a beatdown but that was a loaded Texas team with Vince Young running all over us. 2006 USC was also extremely good, and a better team than 2007 Oregon. Hope I'm getting my years correct.

Even though I was young that '91 FSU game sticks out. Whew what a team.

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:52 PM
(Reply to #101) #119
GoBlueInIowa
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For a whole there the team

For a whole there the team that win the national championship was the team that beat us in a bowl the previous year

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September 4th, 2012 at 12:53 PM
#120
GoBlueInIowa
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For one game, it is the most

For one game, it is the most complete and physical team I have ever seen them play

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:21 PM
#121
jdon
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what about Texas 04 with vince young?

He was the best offensive player I have ever seen and the only reason we were close was because we were good.

jdon

 

Actually, screw that ALabama this year is just so loaded in the trenches...

 

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:30 PM
#122
JamieH
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 12968
Texas 04 wasn't a dominant team

Vince Young was the single most dominant college player I think Michigan has ever faced in a game.  The rest of his team?  Good, but not dominant.  He was a one-man wrecking-ball of a player.  Unstoppable. 

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September 4th, 2012 at 1:48 PM
#123
markusr2007
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Yes

I think 1991 FSU and 1991 Washington (1992 Rose Bowl) would be next in line.

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September 4th, 2012 at 2:18 PM
#124
Durham Blue
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Alabama 2012

Alabama is the best opponent we've played, IMO.  I've never seen a Michigan team, *with so much promise*, get dominated the way we were dominated on Saturday.  I would then say that the 1991 Washington Huskies are a close second.  The 2003(?) Iowa Hawkeyes team was pretty good too.

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September 4th, 2012 at 2:37 PM
(Reply to #118) #125
FrankMurphy
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It was the 2002 Iowa team

It was the 2002 Iowa team that manhandled us at the Big House 34-9. They were good, but they lost to Iowa State that year and got destroyed by USC in the Orange Bowl (they played in the Orange Bowl because Oklahoma and Washington State played in the Rose Bowl for some reason). 

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September 5th, 2012 at 1:33 AM
(Reply to #121) #126
Candyman
Joined: 07/30/2012
MGoPoints: 25
Drats! Conflabit.

Drats! Conflabit.

I was hoping to name a team that nobody else has said. 2001 Tennessee fell early, as did 75-76 Oklahoma, and 07 Oregon. (Oregon is the most underrated team in this discussion - as somebody else said, if Dixon stays healthy he wins the Heisman Trophy in a landslide on his way to a National Championshp. And that was a GOOD Michigan team they embarrassed in the Big House, The Horror aside.)

But yes, that 2002 Iowa team. That's the one I thought would slip through the cracks here. They beat Michigan 34-9 in the Big House. At the time, that was the bigget loss Michigan ever suffered in the Big House. Bigger than FSU in 91. (It was since surpassed by the aforementioned 07 Oregon team.) They did lose to Iowa State, inexplicably. But they went undefeated in the Big Ten, because due to scheduling they didn't play the eventual National Champion Ohio. (Compared to Iowa's 34-9 beatdown in AA, Ohio beat Michigan 14-9 in Columbus that year.) Also, Iowa played in the Orange Bowl because Ohio had the Big Ten's automatic bid (both were 8-0, Ohio was better in the non conference) and played in the National Championship game. That left Iowa as an at large, and the Orange Bowl got to pick before the Rose Bowl. (Since they lost Miami, which was the #1 team in the title game.) That was when they added the rule that's still in place, stipulating that when a bowl loses a team to the title game they get first shot at any other team from the same conference. (I defend the BCS more than most, but they're definitely reactive as opposed to proactive. That rule should've already been in place.)

Anywho, this is a tough question to quantify. This seems to have turned into a "Most Dominating Performance Against Michigan" question, which isn't necessarily the same thing as "best team" they've played. And there's also the issue of weighing what they did against Michigan compared to what they did that entire season(which holds back the 2006-07 USC team, as they lost games they shouldn't have that year, and also the Iowa team I mentioned)...and even bigger picture, what the players did in the NFL has been brought up several times. But that's an issue of "most talented" vs "best" team, which also aren't necessarily the same thing. If you're just talking about the most talented, one team that will (rightfully) never get mentioned is the 2007-08 Florida Gators. They were talented as hell - they won the National Championship the year before AND the year after and had loads of NFL talent. But they disappointed that year during the season and, of course, lost to Michigan. But there's no denying the talent on that team.

For me, it's 1991 Washington or 2003 USC. Both were loaded with talent, had the dominating seasons the talent suggested they should have(ironically, they both only won a split National Championship - although USC's split was only on a technicality, one poll was obligated to vote for LSU), and both convincingly beat very good Michigan teams. I might go with Washington just because they were undefeated(USC lost to an average Cal team in OT) and probably looked a little better against Michigan.

EDIT: A team that nobody named? 1984 BYU. They won the National Championship, FFS!

(Yes, I'm kidding.)

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September 4th, 2012 at 3:11 PM
#127
CLord
CLord's picture
Joined: 09/11/2011
MGoPoints: 7023
Most impressive foes over the last 30 years:

And interesting to note that not one of my top 5 beatdowns came from a Big Ten foe:

1. Oregon and Dennis Dixon. 39-7.

A week after The Horror, Oregon toyed with a loaded, senior-laded Michigan team with Henne, Hart, Arrington, Manningham, Long, Graham, etc. to the point that Oregon mercifully stepped off the gas pedal in the third Q or it would have been far worse than 39-7.  This was the game that caused Bill Martin to consider it an acceptable option to throw all Michigan tradition out the window to bring in a spread guru, thinking Michigan would one day “Oregon” everyone.  What Martin failed to realize was the real reason Oregon destroyed us was due to the complete and utter incompetence Ron English displayed at scheming a defense to defend the spread.  In the spread neutralization scheming ethos, Pat Narduzzi would be at one end of the spectrum, and English and his massive incompetence would be at the other.  I give English 90% of the responsibility for The Horror, and for the ass pasting we received from Oregon.

2. Alabama Saturday.

Alabama “Michigans” Michigan.  For years Bo, Mo and Lloyd would run their conventional, bruising, pro attack where Michigan would beat 80% of the schedule on shear talent disparity alone, and then run into trouble facing more creative teams with equal or better talent (Tressel, USC, etc.).   The difference is that Saban is Lloyd 2.0 in that he is a better schemer, and he is getting better talent, but the principles are the same – conservative bruising style, and the talent will make the difference.  This gets #2 simply because Bama faced a broken Michigan team in transition, nowhere near its soon-to-be potential.

3. Syracuse and Donovan McNabb. 38-28.

One of the few times I felt utterly helpless watching a game. One player, McNabb, single-handedly toyed with an otherwise good Michigan defense.  It was at this time that I began to question Michigan as antiquated for not incorporating a running QB into their mix.

4. Washington '92 Rose. – Emtman and the Husky cheaters (they were found to have committed major violations during this period) exhibited the best defense I had ever seen Michigan face.

5. Tennessee bowl game. – We weren’t that great that year, but it was still a big beat down.

 

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September 5th, 2012 at 12:04 PM
(Reply to #122) #128
the Glove
the Glove's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 3845
I remember thinking a few

I remember thinking a few days after the horror sunk in that we were going to be demolished by Oregon. I had thought to myself if we can't handle that type of spread how in the world would we handle a team in the top 25 like Oregon who would run it better. Prior to last Saturday that Oregon game was the only game I had ever stop watching before the end of the game, but I did re watch the Alabama game on Monday night to see what the hell went wrong.

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September 4th, 2012 at 3:02 PM
#129
BlueHills
Joined: 10/31/2010
MGoPoints: 4145
Alabama is obviously

Alabama is obviously fantastic. 

We have a frame of reference as to other M teams from past years, because we can see how Michigan stacked up against other competition.

In the case of this 'Bama team, we have no frame of reference because neither team has had another game this season.

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September 4th, 2012 at 9:50 PM
#130
Yeoman
Joined: 06/08/2011
MGoPoints: 13242
I'm just old enough to remember '68 OSU.

If you adjust for the different eras, that team might have been as good. They mauled opponents up front in a way much like what we saw on Saturday, and all of last year.

But if you time-transported their players to the present and lined them up against Atabama they'd get tossed around like rag dolls. They had what, for the time, was an enormous O-line--topped by Rufus Mayes at 260. Michigan that year only had one player on the entire roster over 240 (Dierdorf, of course).

So I guess it depends on what you mean. It's easy to forget what great athletes we're watching now, in pretty much every sport. Nutrition, training...there's no comparison even without the PEDs.

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September 5th, 2012 at 5:41 PM
#131
RollTideRoll
Joined: 09/05/2012
MGoPoints: 6
Thanks..

Hey, I found this place from a blog link stuck around thought I would join in. All the comparisons in this thread sound good but this is although very talented a young Bama team. If you follow recruiting it's easy to see why but Hoke is doing it amd you guys are M you'll be back. I admit I have SEC pride not enough to chant lol but if you hear a GO BLUE! from down south during ND, OSU, or PSU games it's me.

Again nothing to hang your head about... something I haven't even seen mentioned and lucky for us if Rich Rod doesn't turn Bama down.....ugh I don't even

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