Afternoon Open Thread

Submitted by True Blue in CO on
Giving those of us watching the Coaching MerryGoBlogRound a place to park thoughts or news.

MGoShtoink

January 8th, 2011 at 1:05 PM ^

Stay out of the details, but make her a least give you options on things like colors. There is nothing worse than coming down to the day and realizing your entire wedding is frilly pink... Unless of course that is exactly what she's always wanted, then it's best to keep your mouth shut and deal with it (that's what open bar is for...)

blue_shift

January 8th, 2011 at 12:15 PM ^

For all the veneration the man was getting around here - like the silly Internet "pimp hand" nonsense - he has done almost nothing to merit his stratospheric reputation.

I will try to reserve judgment, but if he truly is as bad of an AD as he appears to be right now, what is the process for firing DB?

AAB

January 8th, 2011 at 12:19 PM ^

but it's January 8th, and we announced yesterday that we were hiring a search committee.  There don't appear to be any candidates on the board other than two guys who wouldn't be very good hires.  Is it possible that we'll end up with a surprise coach a week from now? Sure.  But there's a time factor here that is really, really important.  We're going to miss out on two guys today who were very highly rated recruits at positions of need and who would be going to Michigan if we weren't lacking a coach (well, one for sure would-the other we'd just have a good shot with).  Recruiting is the life blood of a program and we're in line for quite possibly Michigan's worst recruiting class since people started caring about recruiting , and it's directly traceable to the fact that it's January 8th and no one has any idea who our coach is going to be.  That's just plain bad.

blue_shift

January 8th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^

I can understand somewhat why RR was fired. It was not a decision that I agreed with, but there were some plausible reasons for his termination. What does not make sense to me is that DB failed to line up a replacement before letting him go. I thought his CEO background was supposed to be a plus?

I mean, this is elementary stuff in the business world - a company needs a clear succession plan or things start to go south quickly. DB supposedly had a "dynamic list" of candidates - which basically is a CYA phrase for "I haven't started yet." He fired a good coaching mind for a high-risk gamble on Harbaugh that didn't work out, left a power vaccuum in the football program, and failed to have a back-up plan.

We might still get a good coach, but it's hard not to argue that DB hasn't spectacularly bungled the process, and reflects poorly on his leadership ability.

Mich_Faithful

January 8th, 2011 at 12:46 PM ^

Recruit for character not for talent.  We won't know the value of this class until at least 2 years down the road anyways.  Why so much negativity? Every post I've seen of your's is a downer, try to have some faith not a debbie downer.  Not saying the views are wrong, just in a time like this we have to try to stay positive, no matter how minscule that positive is.

AAB

January 8th, 2011 at 12:11 PM ^

the hate that Bill Martin gets. in his watch he hired Beilein, hired Rich Rod (yeah, it didn't work out -- he still hired the best candidate on the market at the time), kept Maloney, made the Athletic Department insanely profitable, got the Big House renovated etc. etc.

And need I remind you that the coach we missed out on because of the fishing incident has since eaten grass on national television, proven himself incapable of telling time, told his team to spike the ball with 0 seconds left, and gotten rid of kids in an incredibly shady fashion and then lied about it?

jmblue

January 8th, 2011 at 12:51 PM ^

For you to criticize David Brandon's handling of the coaching search while praising Martin's is the height of cognitive dissonance.  Martin flailed around for three weeks before RR fell into his lap.  Brandon has been searching for three days.

AAB

January 8th, 2011 at 12:14 PM ^

Dave Brandon looks like he might be about to hire Brady Hoke.

If you hired a guy with Rich Rodriguez's resume 1 million times and a guy with Brady Hoke's resume 1 million times, which one do you think would end up with better results?

Bando Calrissian

January 8th, 2011 at 12:17 PM ^

So many assumptions...

We hired a guy with Rich Rodriguez's resume once.  And had to let him go 3 years later.  It just goes to show you can't gauge how a coach will fit and perform in a program based on prior results.  

Why resign Hoke to failure before he coaches a single game at Michigan. if indeed he gets the job?

AAB

January 8th, 2011 at 12:23 PM ^

I'm resigning the idea of hiring a guy like Brady Hoke to failure.  I feel like people are missing out on an important point here: even if Brady Hoke ends up being a massive success it is still a bad hire

Hiring a coach isn't a certainty.  You're just buying a probability that your team will be good going forward.  Hiring a guy with Nick Saban's resume is virtually guaranteed to make your team awesome.  Hiring a guy with GERG's is virtually guaranteed to make your team suck. 

Hiring Rich Rodriguez was a high probability move that didn't work out.  That doesn't mean it's a bad hire.  Hiring a guy with a a career losing record over 8 seasons coaching in the MAC and the MWC is an incredibly low probability move.  If Brady Hoke ends up awesome, it will mean Michigan has gotten lucky, and I don't want the success of our next hire to depend on luck. 

Blue Bill

January 8th, 2011 at 12:52 PM ^

I feel like people are missing out on an important point here: even if Brady Hoke ends up being a massive success it is still a bad hire.

Um..... What?!  Isn't that a little like saying Tom Brady was a bad draft pick?  Or perhaps that Antonio Gates was a bad signing for the Chargers?  Or that trading for Brett Favre was a bad move by the Packers? 

The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.  If DB hires Hoke and he ends up returning Michigan to the college football elite in short order... Given all the skepticism and negativity thrown around about how Hoke has never seen a football before I think massive success would pretty much make it a brilliant hire.

I'm not saying Hoke will do that, but I do think the hate people have for him here is a little irrational.  I don't know if he's the best hire for Michigan, but it's pretty clear the guy can coach.

Taps

January 8th, 2011 at 2:20 PM ^

I don't think that's the analogy he's making at all.

Getting Brady really was lucky for the Pats.  He was a small gamble that paid off huge.  If the organization really had any idea what they were getting they wouldn't have passed on him to draft guys like Greg Robinson (ntGR) and Jeff Marriot.

The situation that analogizes the point is poker..  If you call a couple raises and eventually go all in preflop with 35 against KK, you could still win, and if if you do it enough times you should and will win.  Winning doesn't prove that the decision to keep calling was somehow not stupid.

Brady Hoke is 35 off; Rich was KK.

That Rodriguez sucked in his tenure here doesn't mean hiring him wasn't the right decision.  You should take an accomplished, impeccably resumed coach every time over a less accomplished one.

That's why even if Hoke does happen to succeed, he's a poor hire.  There is no reasonable expectation for success.  If he does succeed, it will be due to luck or DB's ability to see into the future.

Blue Bill

January 8th, 2011 at 7:47 PM ^

Yes, I understood his point from a risk/reward perspective.  I concede the Brady anology was not apt, but the Favre anology isn't bad (the Pack gave up a first round pick for him and he hadn't shown anything in his year at Atlanta). 

Regardless, I disagree with your poker anology for the same reason I agree with statement to which my post was directed.  A deck of cards is a known quantity.  We can accurately calculate probabilities with the confidence that we know those quantities.  You are assuming that "coaching resume," (defined as wins/losses, championships, perceived success as an assistant, etc.) represents the total quantity from which the probability of success at Michigan can be estimated.  My point is that you can't simply quantify what makes a successful coach (or what will make one successful at a given coaching position) with such ease and confidence.  People are not cards in a deck.

I will stipulate that Hoke's resume is not as gilded as some other potential candidates.  From there, though, you conclude that if he is hired and succeeds, Brandon must therefore have simply gotten lucky.  I would conclude that Brandon likely knew something that we didn't, or at any rate used more factors in estimating the probability of success than you did.  You say that Rich Rodriguez, despite all that has happened, was still a smart hire-- because you assume that your criteria for determining the quality of a candidate is accurate and complete.  But perhaps if other things besides "coaching resume" are taken into account (like "program fit," or regional knowledge/recruiting ties, or ability to handle recruiting for a more academicaly demanding school, for instance), the hire doesn't look quite as smart and his failure here can be more logically explained instead of resorting to an assumption of "bad luck."  By the same token, perhaps there are other factors not as easily taken into account that may make Hoke a better candidate than some others with apparently better resumes.  If we don't take as our premise that Dave Brandon is an incompetent moron who doesn't know the first thing about football, then it may make more sense (given a Brady Hoke success) to conclude that Brandon understood those factors and took them into account when making his decision.

Wistert_Bros

January 8th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^

I am also still on board with going after the ghost of Bo. Two possible drawbacks: 1. Ghost would be considered a spirit rather than a man so "Michigan Man" title may not fit therefore acceptance by Michigan family questionable. 2. Recruiting could be an issue for those who don't believe in ghosts.

MEZman

January 8th, 2011 at 12:09 PM ^

Posted this on another thread but I'll put it here where there aren't many replies yet:

 

Does anyone else wonder what coaches think about the '11 and '12 schedules? We've got a fairly brutal schedule in '11 then you add Alabama in '12. I wonder how enthusiatic any coach would be to come into a situation where a team got mauled by all of it's tough opponents the year before and then has two brutal schedules up coming. Add to the fact that our fanbase/alumni doen't seem to be the most realistic folks in the world. I'm starting to wonder who the hell would set themselves up to fail like that.

PurpleStuff

January 8th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^

That is a much easier schedule.  Swapping Wisky and PSU for Northwestern and Minnesota is a win.  ND, Nebraska, and OSU are at home.  Iowa, MSU, and OSU also lose high quality senior classes.

If you are going to enter the new Big Ten as a head coach, this is probably the easiest way to do it.

MEZman

January 8th, 2011 at 12:17 PM ^

Fair enough. I wasn't really considering NU any easier than PSU but Wisky for Minn is a win. I'm not sure with our current team home or away for Iowa, MSU, and OSU really makes a difference.

Six Zero

January 8th, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^

I was laying in bed this morning wondering what potential coaches think about THE GAME.  Love him or hate him, Tressel's a coach.... and our next coach will come on campus knowing he'll win or lose his job according to his record against OSU.  That could play on someone's decision.

I then concluded that if any coach might be afraid to come here to face the damn Buckeyes, then I never wanted his frilly dress-wearin' ass anyway.