Their recruting says that will change. Saying their program is in better shape is insanity.
Afternoon Games Open Thread
Recruiting a bunch of 4-5 stars doesn't mean shit if you can't develop that talent. I'm not saying Hoke can't develop talent, the jury is still out on that. But Dantonio has proven he can take a bunch of 2-3 star nobodies and turn them into all-conference stars that can compete with most anyone. Imagine of he got his hands on 4-5 stars on a consistent basis.
I will say for MSU that they seem to generally come out of the locker room and have a good opening drive in the second half.
The UI is bad, but still the defense is solid and the offense is efficient. It is going to be tough game for the good guys
the kind of game they wanted. M fans here seeing lots of liabilities are deluded.
let us guess--you're the "Guestavo" from umhoops? Making friends everywhere you go?
We gave up 24 to Akron and 47 to Indiana.
Our D was not responsible for Akron's 24 points. Only 14 at most. They scored a TD on an INT return and a FG after we turned it over inside our 30 (and forced a three and out).
The defense gave up 17 to Akron on a 4-turnover day and Indiana has a legit offense.
Too much vs Akron. My point, the general feel is that MSU sucks yet they've done what they need to do and are hammering a poor team. Yet very few giving them any credit fir anything - it's the refs lack of calls, luck, illinois sux, schedule sux, etc. most of the conditions apply to us but ee dont blow out shitty teams, etc. yet confidence for us is sky high. I can't stand sparty and they're considered my number 1 rival, but give credit where credit is due. I'm probably overly harsh of us, but good lord Sparty is not the worst team out there.
"Yet very few giving them any credit fir anything - it's the refs lack of calls, luck, illinois sux, schedule sux, etc. most of the conditions apply to us but ee dont blow out shitty teams, etc. yet confidence for us is sky high."
Exactly - all they have done is what they need to do. Beat up teams on their schedule. If not for a stupid brain fart by their coach they could have beaten Notre Dame as well. All this laughing at who they beat (Indiana, Illinois, Purdue Iowa) from a fan base who watched us lose to a similar type of team - i.e. a very average PSU, and then have nail biters versus Akron and Uconn, teams U-Central Florida beat by 25-30 points. Really people? From this you can make a clear distinction UM is better? No one wants to give MSU credit - they are not stumbling against the same bad to average teams that other teams stumble against and/or we did , or came close to doing. Give credit where it is due - it sucks but it is what it is. The excuse making is ridiculous.
I'm not sure what you've been reading, but clearly it's not this board. It's also clear your standards for everything discussed so far don't fall into the "reasonable" range by a long shot.
And that includes all the times the D was put in bad spots from offensive turnovers.
What does it matter if he's the same guy? What has he said recently that was blatantly false? Sure State's offense has looked fine today, but they also only scored 1 touchdown against the worst team in the B1G at home last week....and it came on a trick play. Yes they are in fact still a liability.
The same can be said for people who only dwell on the negative.
I'm just calling for some objectivity about Sparty. Check my comment at the head of the line here:
with every passing MSU TD. All I said was that people looking for lots of liabilities were deluded. Truth.
People looking at a sample size of 1 game against the 104th overall defense are even more deluded. Truth.
You win the internets.
They're playing the 104th-ranked defense in the country. Insightful data points to be drawn from this game are few.
for saying that people looking for liabilities in this game and finding them were deluded. Of course MSU's offense has struggled. But my simple comment was completely correct. There's a guy named guestavo who picks ridiculous nit-picking fights with everyone at umhoops and will soon be banned there; seemed like much the same m.o. These are the same noodles who insist we're going to lose when we go down by a FG in the first quarter. Consistency is not the hallmark of their posts.
and always right to boot. Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourself.
why you're feeling a little peevish. If I'd begun by hollering about how lucky MSU was and had to sit through this game I'd be, too. Not much of such a beat-down attributable to luck really, is there? Feel better.
I was attacked
Oh, your poor thing.
Will there ever be rainbow?
I was attacked
Oh, your poor thing.
Will there ever be rainbow?
I wonder if every Alabama fan will stay till the last snap of the game
Right now the student section looks full.
So, I came across this beauty. Now, I have purchased jerseys from China in the past (twice) and never had issues. They are authentic with stitched numbers and letters, but I just saw this on one web site. Oops?
+ fees, handling, and $20.00 shipping (??!) and suddenly the total jumped to over $49, no thanks, no matter how they spell Gardnr!
BTW, who did you used to be before the
Great Blog Purge of 2013?
This college football season is sucking hardcore this year. All the teams I despise most keep winning every week.
Make that the last 2 years with ND and Ohio last year
If not for tattoo gate a faux NC game of ND v OSU would have been for all the marbles last year as 1 loss Alabama sat out. Now that would have been a travesty.
Recruiting doesn't really affect a team until 3-4 years down the road and even so we have Funchess, Ross, and Norfleet who are making a pretty big impact as underclassmen.
Ive never heard announcers suck on MSU's balls harder than today.. good god.
They act like Cook is a god because ILL can't stop the predictable pass over the middle on every fucking 3rd down. That and their rush defense is a joke..
ILL should of been up 17-0 at half if they could get out of their own way offensively.. Cubit's dumbass kept calling retarded trick plays that never work, and they run straight into the line 3 times in a row? good god. I thought borges was bad..
Even if we beat MSU, they will still most likely go to the title game what an embarassment
Michigan fans seem to have the most pessimistic fans in the country. I remember that they were that way during our 06 run as well. We can freak out if we lose to MSU or Nebraska but until then obsessing over the Akron and Uconn games isn't going to do much. MSU and Nebraska have had their share of shit games too.
It was like this in 1997 as well but you had to go places to talk to Michigan fans versus just check the internets.
Tennessee did score a touchdown on Alabama.
Students are still there with 6 minutes to go and a score of 45-10.
TRAGIC shot of the empty student section at the Illinois game. It's homecoming. That's not going to be good for beckman...
is make next week's game against the Sparties bigger nationally. Well, bigger anyways; it will be one of more intruiging matchups of the day.
recruiting rankings matter. Those who say it doesn't matter don't understand it. Hoke's first class are sophomores. We need them to grow up. I will be rooting for us to land Dashawn Hand. You can root for him to go to Alabama because recruiting rankings mean nothing.
and they still haven't won a national title.
They're a damn good team and have had sustained success for a number of years. I'll take them any day of the week.
Oregon has recruited slightly worse than UM the past 7 or so years. They are 12-1, 12-2, 12-1, 10-3, and 10-3 the last 5 years. If winning a national championship is the only signal of a program's success, UM has been a failure all but 1 year for 60. Let's be reasonable - they have built a very good program and its ahead of UM right now... by a few steps. They have had the same (or one could argue) slightly worse recruiting classes - but lets call it even - as UM. You know our 5 year record with the same type of recruits. It's not even a conversation. I'd be more than happy to take their record over the past 5 years and say "we suck because we can't beat Alabama" versus the current state of things. They have been the 2nd or 3rd best program the past half decade - with again, the same level of recruits as us.
Hoke's recruits are all freshmen or sophomores. Let's not forget that.
Also, for as much as you're complaining, Hoke is 25-8 overall, which is better than our all-time winning percentage (which should be the baseline for evaluating a coach here), despite again not coaching a team full of his own recruits.
As others have pointed out, the underclassmen argument only holds so much water. There are teams out there who are younger than us, but show more composure and football maturity than us. They may be freshmen and sophomores, but they've been playing football for a while. Their year is much less significant than this board is willing to admit.
Our reigning Big Ten overlords, Wisconsin, would beg to differ.
To have any chance to win the division title we have to win out.
Beating Sparty only gets us even with them in the conference. Based on how the rest of their schedule sets up after they play us (@Neb, @NW, Minn) and the way their defense is playing, it's hard to see State losing again.
Call me a pessimist, but the way we're playing - uh I just don't see us winning out.
Beating MSU effectively puts us a game ahead of them because of the tiebreaker. If we're tied with them, we go to Indy because of the head-to-head if we win.
Anyway though, you expect MSU to win in Lincoln? I don't think they win that one, today's terrible NU performance notwithstanding.
I fully expect MSU to beat Nebraska. Martinez is banged up and the Neb defense is terrible. MSU has proven their offense is capable against bad defenses so I don't see that being too difficult of a game for them.
The only way we tie MSU for the division title if they win out is if we win out also. Division standings are determined by overall conference record. If we beat MSU and they win out they will be 7-1 in conference. We can only get to 7-1 by winning out.
ahead, but I could see us winning out, especially since we play OSU at home. Next week is the tough one. I think we're as strong a team; our confidence--and whether Sparty knocks us on our behinds early with rough play--will be critical.
We could win out - it's not completely improbable. I'm just trying to be realistic here as it helps me keep from going insane with depression when we lose tough games (see PSU).
Based on how we perform on the road, I almost think that @MSU and @Iowa will be as hard of games to win as the season finale at home against OSU. MSU has a defense that is insane. I have real worries about how our OL is going to respond to their pressure.
While we may be better than MSU and Iowa overall, facing them on the road makes winning out very much an uphill road.
Kendall Fuller has 3 INTs today.
He would've looked good in Maize & Blue.
With his 3rd pick of the game. Would've been a nice steal, although our secondary should be alright.
Did Rod Gilmore really just compare Michigan State to Stanford?
obviously he was referencing academics...or perhaps the inferiority complex Stanford presents when talk turns to USC
Bama and FSU both win big...Oregon is going to try to hang 70 on the Bruins to keep pace.
Someone grab the popcorn.
I think if we win out or lose one game we'll be going to Indy. Sparty will drop one besides us. I don't want the Sparty apologists to get angry with me but that's the way I see it as a neutral fan. Now you can tell me why MSU will win in Lincoln.
You just said how bad the B1G is...why not take your shot in 1 game vs. the Buckeyes?
It's not like they're world beaters. If the B1G is so bad...we may as well be the best of the bad.
We could be undefeated, the B1G could be stronger. This year belongs to Bama, Oregon and FSU. Maybe Baylor and OSU can sit at the table, but as of now, they're not eating with the Big 3.
So it doesn't matter.
Baylor is actually a good example. They could go undefeated and it not matter.
I feel like that to some degree. I know other programs have their ups and downs and we had a flash of bright light in 1997 but when you see other programs up like Oregon and Alamaba right now (or even LSU and Florida from 5 years ago, Oklahoma and USC before that) its teams that stay up for 5-6 years, losing 1-2 games each year and a legitimate chance to win all those years. For us, we had 1997 bracketed by a ton of 3 and 4 loss seasons and in the past 15 years aside from 2006 we are never really in the national talk of premier teams anymore.
Looking at how those teams are currently composed versus us, without ability to have a run game against average defenses, and totally reliant on 1 man to be the entire offense, with an adequate defense lacking playmakers outside of JMFR and maybe Blake... it's sort of like "meh". Its another year of 3-4 loss UM football, in the blueprint of much of the past 20 years. Winning the Big 10 right now is like winning the JV game then looking over at the varsity game and seeing the real actors play. With the OL set to struggle again in 2014, and starting over at RB and WR (essentially from scratch at WR except Funchess and Chesson) maybe 2015 will be the year to finally have a team that is a national player again. Until then, its JV football.
Here's why MSU wins in Lincoln:
1. MSU defense > Neb offense
MSU's defense is ridiculous and exploits QBs that are prone to turning the ball over. Enjoy, Taylor Martinez!
2. MSU offense > Neb defense
MSU has shown that they will grind down any middling-to-bad Big 10 defense for huge TOP advantage with a game plan that offers few chances for turnovers. Cook has shown the ability to pass and even be clutch when there is no pass rush or tight coverage. Nebraska will give him both in that game.
3. Nebraska is crumbling internally. Alumni are upset with Pellini, they had the audio recording fiasco just a month ago, Martinez is banged up, and they just lost to Minnesota. If they had some momentum on their side maybe they could pull this one off but it seems like the season is quickly falling apart on them.
MSU is a good team, not a great one. Am I the only one glad that they have stepped up their program? Think we beat them and that will mean more now that they have a decednt D1 football team.
I'd be happy to see them sink once more. Maybe we just improve enough to beat their mediocre a**es regularly.
You may be the only one.
Not me. A "stepped up program" means UM has to beat OSU and MSU every year...just to get to the Big 10 champsionship game against another good level team. So it would mean 3 high quality wins to get back to a Rose Bowl. And that assumes Penn State does not get back to where it was in the Paterno years. I'd much rather have a cute lovable MSU who takes stupid penalties and implodes to the CMUs of the world, so we can just point and laugh rather than bitch and moan. But that's just me, and according to most people on this board Sparty is just a piece of fiction who is only decent due to refs, luck, and a bad schedule.
I never wish any level of success to my rivals.
Thankfully after today we shouldn't have to hear about Bam's impressive win over VT again.
...on the verge of upsetting Va Tech.
And they did.
next week for us will be huge for momentum. Can't believe I'm saying that about STAEE. I could see us winning out then.
A loss and I could see real trouble for us. Plus I want to beat our two main rivals so bad this year, especially Ohio to ruin their season.
I take the kids to Briarwood Mall for the Boo Bash and miss most of the Illinois-Michigan State game. I came back and the box score was the first thing I check - that was more or less a bloodletting, I see.
So after today, Sparty has to be ranked going into next week's game right? Va Tech lost. Sparty was the only 6-1 team in a major conference (outide of the new Big East) that was unranked.
Actually goes to show just how far perception of the BIG has fallen when the conference seems to be considered on par with what basically amounts to a mid major.
THe Big 10 deserves that reputation but yes Sparty should be ranked. ND has 2 losses and I think was ranked ahead of them - they have 1 signature win vs Iowa but decimating a team on thier home field by 35 or so, when Wisconsin had a closer game the week before should open eyes. I see them ranked 19-22. If they beat UM next week you could see them top 15 easy.
Wisconsin was up 25 on Illinois heading to the 4th so don't act like MSU's win over them was impressive because it wasn't unless all you looked at was the final score.
undeniably impressive. It may have to be qualified a little, and may not say THAT much about next week's game. But their O was rolling, and it's been their biggest weakness. And now we can worry about their O line, which was clearly pretty strong to begin with.
Obviously, some people just want to say they're lucky, whatever. I don't really get that, and I don't think that most knowledgeable commentators believe it, either.
I don't see UM winning. Not with their turnover and OL issues. Nebraska may beat them and NU could as well. But MSU seems to be playing the best football of any team in the Legends.
full of rage at this time next week.
Well I am not calling for a loss as I see Devin putting up some stats. It will all come to how many turnovers he has and where on the field. If you give them up inside our 30 like he usually does - UM has no chance as we are not scoring 30 on MSU. I do think UM can score 17-24 on Sparty however... barring more than 2 turnovers. If UM gets more than 30 yards rushing from RBs vs MSU it will be a miracle . Unless Borges runs it 60 times, and I put nothing past that cat.
As for your last comment, I agree a loss to MSU will put the board on full meltdown. Hoke's headset will need to be put in witness protection.
as UM? And I highly doubt UCLA has started 18 freshmen. Played maybe, but not started.
one cannot pick Michigan. UM plays poorly on the road qne they are turnover prone. I don't see how Michigan wins considering how the team has played thus far this season. UM can win. They still have more overall talent than Sparty, but I just don't see it with this team.
Think we win by a TD, I think we score on their d, Connor cook won't beat Michigan
MSU and OSU, Michigan can win all their remaining games. I worry more now about IA then NU. I can't totally count on MSU being a guaranteed loss. Michigan will have to play one of their best games with few turnovers to beat MSU on the road. It still looks like we are on track for 9-3 or 8-4 season.