According to Football Outsiders, MSU=3, UM=26!!! LOL

Submitted by massblue on

A month ago I posted a link to Football Outsiders prediction that UM would loose 7 games, including a loss to UConn!!  I checked the site again to see if they have made some adjustments, and to my surprise they have MSU as the 3rd most efficient team and UM 26th. They are quoted on ESPN on regular basis. I wonder if with these ridiculous ratings, anyone pays attention to them.

 

Link

gopoohgo

September 11th, 2013 at 9:03 AM ^

It IS pretty damn efficient when you score 21 points with the FCS #125 ranked offense.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics quote is pretty appropriate for Football Outsiders at the moment.

bronxblue

September 11th, 2013 at 1:14 PM ^

They'll openly admit that their models are not very appropriate for early-season measurements because of the small sample size and the difference in competitiveness.  I think prediction systems typically work best when all parties being measured have functionally identifical baselines.  The problem with FBS vs. FCS measurements are that in most situations, those two teams are not functionally the same; the logical extreme would be measuring the Vikings against University of Minnesota.  Over time the models can correct for these differences, but early on they have to accept a certain baseline that can swing wildly when you are crossing conferences let against subdivisions. 

Everyone Murders

September 11th, 2013 at 9:08 AM ^

Other (read in a Johnny Carson voice) wild, wacky stuff in these rankings:

  • Clemson ranked at 32? 
  • Miami (YTM) at 37? 
  • Texas Tech at 43? 
  • Northwestern at 48 (beneath 47 Iowa)?

I'm going to join with the OP and suggest that we ought not take these rankings too seriously. 

evenyoubrutus

September 11th, 2013 at 9:19 AM ^

State has a very well coached defense and I will give Dantonio all the credit he deserves for doing what he's done with such little talent but I think MSU's defense is going to turn out to be a little overrated. They play aggressive, sound football but I think their athletes are still what they are- mostly 2 and 3 star recruits with a handful of hidden gems who will get beat if they ever have to play an offense with elite talent; there is no way they can ever get to "elite" status with this personnel.

Wolverines Dominate

September 11th, 2013 at 9:35 AM ^

"A month ago I posted a link to Football Outsiders prediction that UM would loose 7 games, including a loss to UConn!!"

Please spell "lose" correctly and don't blame the typo.

BiSB

September 11th, 2013 at 9:37 AM ^

The rankings are formula-based, and there isn't nearly enough data yet to get reasonable results. The rankings are pretty good when we get a few more weeks in.

In the meantime, LOLSparty.

oriental andrew

September 11th, 2013 at 10:46 AM ^

it's mostly driven by early season wonkiness and the fact that msu has pretty much crap teams so far, and their defense seems to be pretty good.  

give it a few more weeks and things should get back to normal.  It's certainly not a reasonable expectation for msu's defense to continue outscoring the offense at the tune of 14 ppg.  if their D averages 2 TDs a game by the end of the year, i'll eat my Michigan hat and wear an msu hat for a week.  

PeterKlima

September 11th, 2013 at 9:40 AM ^

A couple things you should know:

1. Stop trolling MSU boards for post topics.

2. The FEI, which is drive efficiency has Michigan higher than MSU: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fei

3. S&P takes into account non-garbage time play. That is all of what MSU has had against inferior opponents. Other schools have been involved in lots of garbage time. This plays into how bad they are that they even have so much non-garbage time info to use. Of course they look good at that time because they get to count time against very weak opponents that they can't even pull away from.

Magnus

September 11th, 2013 at 9:42 AM ^

Those number sound about right...if they represent the IQ of the average student at each respective school.

ZING!

Am I right, guys? Am I right? Yeah, I'm right.

ish

September 11th, 2013 at 9:43 AM ^

i think brian has mentioned this previously, but FO uses about 5 years worth of data, so the two games played this year, although weighted heavily, are not going to significantly change michigan's rating in the FEI.  it's just a system that happens to be particularly harsh to michigan.  we shouldn't worry.

ca_prophet

September 11th, 2013 at 2:40 PM ^

... Because you get some aspects of the program, coaches, etc. which aren't captured in small- sample 11-12 game seasons. The ratings are also heavily biased towards preseason predictions at the moment, and have very little regular season data to use. GIGO. The FEI ratings also prefer excellent defense to excellent offense (because in college, a good defense is more repeatable game to game and year to year). MSU has an excellent defense so it will always look better than it might appear. That said, I think even a historically great D won't save MSU this year unless they can get successions of trash tornadoes for every game to level the playing field.

LSAClassOf2000

September 11th, 2013 at 11:21 AM ^

When it comes to the record predictions, the Program FEI that they use has the  unusual effect of probably hitting Michigan harder than it would most teams. Year over year, we were 11th in 2007, 21st in 2008, 39th in 2009, 50st in 2010, and 33rd in 2011 - the trend is upward, but the calculation still contains some of the year in which our ranking was not that high. 

Tim in Huntsville

September 11th, 2013 at 9:51 AM ^

Perhaps the name 'Outsiders' comes from their rankings being 'Outside the Normal Distribution'?  

It sort of reminds me of one of my sons who, from my perspective, has the belief that "Physics doesn't apply to him".  On the other hand, he is extremely smart, so maybe his way of looking at things 'sideways' will lead to a great invention, maybe even the world's next great energy source.  Certainly the odds of that don't fall into middle of any kind of normal distribution.

Tim

ClearEyesFullHart

September 11th, 2013 at 10:05 AM ^

State played two mid majors who lost to FCS(formerly d2) opponents. Compared to the FCS opponents... State scored 59% of the points, threw for 45% of the yards, and rushed for 88% of the yards against the two common opponents. However...MSU's defense held its opponents to 43% of the score, 52% of the passing yards, and 24% of the rushing yards that S. Fla and Western put up against their FCS opponents. Based strictly on point differential(MSU-opponent score vs FCS-opponent) MSU could expect to lose to the average FCS team by 4 pts/g.

gwkrlghl

September 11th, 2013 at 10:04 AM ^

Football Outsiders continually post predictions that do not pass the 'eye test'.

  • They had MSU as a dark horse national championships contender
  • Said Michigan would likely finish 5-7
  • Have MSU at #3 after two weeks in which they've shown a complete inability to move the football against two really bad FBS schools
  • Hell, they even have USC at #15 this week and Texas at #23 after giving up 550 yards of rushing to BYU!

Crunching numbers is the sexy thing to do in sports analysis right now, but if they don't mean anything, then you just look stupid. Football Outsiders is proving to be very stupid

greensborohill

September 11th, 2013 at 1:50 PM ^

They actually have us losing 8 games, schedule as follows:

CMU - Win by 19

ND - Lose by 10

Akron - Win by 33

Ucon - Lose by 5

Minn - Win by 13

PSU - Lose by 11

Indy - Win by 9

MSU - Lose by 16

Neb - Lose by 7

NW - Lose by 11

Iowa - Lose by 8

OSU - Lose by 13

CRex

September 11th, 2013 at 10:09 AM ^

Honestly I think State's defense is slightly overrated. They needed to bring 5 or 6 just to get pressure against USF. The Bulls burned them a few times with draws. Against better teams Narduzzi may be made to pay for that aggression with those draws and screens. State's front 4 are not as disruptive as they were in past seasons.

inthebluelot

September 11th, 2013 at 11:47 AM ^

obviously you pay attention to these ridiculous ratings as evidenced by your frequesnt clicks to their site.  Also, it's spelled "lose" not "loose" and it's an MGOBLOG cardinal sin to use "LOL" in any way, shape or form.