I hope the B1G sets this one out untill ND gets backed into the corner.
I hope the B1G sets this one out untill ND gets backed into the corner.
And so it begins...again. I think this will have more of a direct result on Big Ten expansion than anything going on in the Big 12. With the Big East losing teams, I find it likely that they give ND an ultimatum of either join for football or GTFU for the rest of their sports.
What would be the point when you know there's zero chance they would join for football? The Big East will probably just invite Memphis and another mid-major like Temple.
edit - or Kansas + KSU, or accept Baylor + ISU. They have a lot of options, no way they're imploding. They'll just suck even worse at football.
If they increase the size of their football conference, then their basketball conference will become more than 16 teams, which has already proven to be unwieldy (failure in the tournament). Telling ND to get in or GTFO either allows them to increase the FB conference size without increasing the BB conference size. Tell them to get in or GTFO and bring in Kansas, KSU, and Baylor if ND doesn't stay. With TCU, that would increase them to a 10 team conference.
That was already going to be true until Pitt and Syracuse left. I think they'd much rather get rid of DePaul if they're looking to trim one team.
.....that was quick. Didn't they only apply a few days ago?
Slightly premature like with A&M? Or maybe it's been kept on the hush for a while. I can't imagine they got everything done in a matter of a few days.
ACC is their safety conference
Wow. The ACC knows how you do expansion. Don't spend f'in weeks letting the drama play out in the media (ahem, SEC and PAC-10 or 12 or whatever).
Reading between the lines: "Pittsburgh Chancellor Mark Nordenberg said in a release that the school's leadership 'could not envision a better conference home for Pitt, [given that the Big Ten is not currently looking for another member].'"
It cited a USA Today report that unnamed inside sources said the ACC would accept Rutgers and UConn in addition to Syracuse and Pitt. What it didn't say was whether that was to get to 14 (and Pitt and Syracuse jumped first), or to go all the way to 16.
I think this puts pressure on the B1G and ND to move now. With the Pac 12 and the SEC looking to carve more teams out of the Big 12, and the ACC possibly pulling the last two candidates we were considering in the Big East, Delaney and team have got to move the chess pieces again.
I wonder a) if the rumor last week that ND and Texas have made proposals to the B1G are true, and b) if Rutgers and UConn are considering between the B1G and the ACC.
Interestingly, Texas and Oklahoma seem to be working out their options in unison. So we could fill out totally on ND and Big 12 teams, or we could go Texas, ND, Rutgers and UConn.
I think adding an ACC team is not probably at this point. They seem to be consolidating around an identity.
The Big Ten - ACC Challenge just got a lot tougher.
In all this talk about the Big East's impending demise, I didn't even consider the Notre Dame aspect. With Pitt and Cuse going to the ACC and, I imagine, West Virginia heading to the SEC, the Big East will have no raison d'être in football and a severely reduced profile in basketball.* Will the conference double-down on basketball while letting football whither and die, or will it just fold altogether?
* Insofar as having Marquette, Georgetown, UConn, Notre Dame, Louisville, Villanova, and Cincinnati can really be counted as being not-quite-as-marquee-as-before, of course.
My guess is that with the more powerful football schools lining up to leave the Big East, the basketball schools will gain clout and decide on basketball only. I could see a Big East with Pitt and Syracuse trying to make it work by merging with the remnants of the Big 12, but I seriously doubt the Georgetowns and Villanovas want any part of that. I think the bells are tolling for the football side of the Big East and it may be that the Big East basketball schools survive as a conference under another name, perhaps with a few choice names from the A-10 (Xavier, anyone?)
Villanova very much wants to play football in the Big East. Leaving them and Notre Dame out only leaves 5 non-football teams, assuming DePaul gets left out..The Big East brand name is still worth a lot in basketball. It would be a risky move to give that up and hope to get the same kind of revenue starting over.
Those schools are probably worried about recruiting too. Playing in a new, small conference might hurt a lot more than the alternative. There are some attractive basketball programs among the possible football replacements.
And let acc guinea pig this, I think it will be a disaster.
They just went and joined a conference that isn't going to exist by the time they get there. I'm guessing they are hoping to go back and help Texas re-form the old Southwest Conference. Otherwise, it's a really awkward return to the MWC.
Will ND end up in the ACC or will they finally join the Big?
I can't imagine ND going to the ACC. Most of their rivalries are with the Pac-12 and B1G... I do wonder if the B1G should be interested in TCU if the Big East implodes... it gives us that Texas recruiting tie-in and they're ranked 97th academically (higher than Nebraska)...
the ACC doesn't have the basketball-only thing going on. that was the convenient part for nd in the big east. they could fit in like the basketball-only powers - georgetown/marquette/villanova, etc.
With Pitt and Cuse gone, and maybe UConn too, the nonfootball schools in the Big East might say forget it and dump the football schools. Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova and Notre Dame all share a smallish Catholic school identity that I could think form a strong conference in basketball and other sports.
The football schools with good bball, like Cincinnati and Louisville are then kind of out in the cold, though.
Also, I just noticed that USF is almost as far from the other Big East schools as Texas would be from the Big Ten. Does anyone have any insight into how difficult it is for South Florida to travel as a geographical outlier in the conference?
Obvious first choice would be Notre Dame. I believe they would also like to add Missouri, and maybe one more former Big 12 team. If I had my choice I would also like to see the B1G try to pull Boston College away from the ACC as they usually have a fairly competitive football program, decent basketball program, and adding them to the new B1G Hockey conference would be great. This is almost completely impossible though as they seem happy in the ACC and just left the Big East not too long ago.
LOL BC is trash. They aren't really good at either sport, draw like 50 fans to basketball games (slight exxageration I know). The ACC got BC in an attempt to get the boston market and it failed and has just been terrible for the acc, everybody hates it. Hell a lot of ACC fanbases would probably waive the 20 million buyout fee to get bc the hell out.
BC would be a great addition for their hockey program and their....nevermind
With TCU coming in, they only need one more school to remain an 8-team conference and (probably) keep the BCS autobid. They might now approve Villanova as a full football member if they move up to FBS. HOWEVA, if the SEC goes after WVU, the Big East might as well fold as a football conference.
With the B12's left behind
If TCU may bail? They may get a bid to the Big 12, if there is still a big 12.
I think the Big 10 sits this out, unless ND or Texas are available. Nobody else really makes much sense...
I kinda really wanted Pitt. (and to a lesser extent Missouri)
ND & Texas will NEVER be part of the Big ten, and i don't want to see the conference bottom-feeding for lesser teams in 2+ years.
it seems to be the conventional wisdom that nd would have to join a superconference if things go the way of the 4 superconferences...but, i'm not sure why.
certainly, football scheduling will be more challenging - but, do you think msu wants to stop scheduling notre dame? boston college? etc. there are plenty of teams that nd has had historic and/or recent relationships that are very valuable to those schools. they'll be incentivized to try and maintain those relationships as the superconferences emerge. msu has a big home game every-other-year that the bras get awfully fired up over...taking that away would be a big deal. (although, if i never have to watch the replay of the godforsaken fake field goal at the end of last year's game, i'd be fine with that)
and the accompanying expansion of in conference play will eventually force Notre Dame's hand. The Big 10 is moving to a 9 game conference schedule. The ACC is now at 14 members and moving toward 16, which almost demands expansion of its conference schedule. Assuming the Pac 12 does likewise, which seems a safe bet given the talk of a Pac-16, a good swath of Notre Dame's opponents will not have room for a marquee (cough) non-conference opponent such as Notre Dame. For example, consider Notre Dame's 2011 schedule if you were to eliminate its Big 10, ACC and Pac 12-16 opponents:
vs. South Florida
at Michigan vs. Michigan State at Pittsburgh at Purdue
vs. Air Force
at Wake Forest vs. Maryland vs. Boston College at Stanford
Not the kind of schedule that fans/viewers like, not the kind of schedule for which NBC shells out big money. They should join the Big 10 and the Big 10 should welcome them. I appreciate that the Big 10 has been able to preserve a contiguous footprint--neither the ACC, PAC 12 can say that--but I would nevertheless love to see Texas in the Big 10.
Technically the ACC has a contiguous footprint again. Even more so if the little rumblings about UConn and Rutgers are true.
The Pac-10 has been at 9 conference games forever. Not long ago most seasons were only 11 games. ND didn't have trouble filling out their schedule then and they won't in the future. They're great for selling tickets, they're great for TV ratings and they're typically an easier opponent than anyone else you could say that about.
as long as nd's football brand retains value, they'll have options. the fact that everybody hates nd is a valuable commodity when it comes to selling tickets and tv ratings.
ultimately, the program has to stop sucking, because the value won't hold forever. but, we've sucked for a long time and the program/brand has held its value shockingly well.
are more valuable than Pitt & Syracuse because they bring the New York TV market.
The ACC actually said that they were after the NY market when they added Syracuse. It's all about the TV money.
I would hate to see The B1G add Texas, because they are a pain in the @ss. Ask Nebraska.
If the B1G wre adding teams, I would like to see ND, UConn, Rutgers & Oklahoma or Missouri.
Oklahoma will never be a Big Ten school; their academics are complete shit.
although it seems that, academically and athletically, ND and UT make the most sense, they are probably the most difficult to please.
We (the blog) have been over this 100 times. Just because uconn and rutgers are near new york doesn't mean anyone in new york actually gives a crap about either school. It's not like we're talking about adding the new york giants. we're talking about adding two ok big east schools. stupid idea
and while the point is moot, just because Rutgers is closer to NYC than Syracuse means little as well. Cuse draws as much if not more viewership in city.
At least there are some UCONN fans in the city. I haven't seen a single Rutgers shirt/hat/bar/anything in the 4 years I've lived here.
At one point Rutgers might have brought the Jersey Shore market, but with the Situation becoming MSU's mascot that seems like it's probably over too.
Ultimately this is going to screw over the smaller Big East schools with strong basketball traditions but without a major football program. Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Marquette. Those schools will all suffer from a diluted Big East.
I see this as the beginning of the ACC being the Humane Society conference, picking up strays from the Big East and Big 12. The B1G will have 16 teams. That is why that G looks more like a 6 than a 0. They are "leading the reader" in a pretty obvious way here.
I have thought for awhile that most of the teams in the big conferences would end up in four superconferences in a breakaway division, but no I am beginning to wonder if some of the writers who have predicted "demotions" have it correct. For example, what if the Big 12 falls apart and the Big East doesn't get invited to play with the "big boys" when the breakaway division happens?
I hope the ND/TX rumor from the NW blog are true. Then, all the Big Ten would need is a couple of tomato cans with great academics and big names to flesh out a nice superconference.
So much for adding Maryland or any other ACC school, they just upped the fine for leaving the conference to 20 Million Dollars.
We better not add the Kansas schools just to add them.....
At this point, Notre Dame and maybe an east coast team or no one.
SEC adds FSU,Miami,TAMU & WVU. ACC adds Pitt,Syracuse,UConn and Louisville. B1G adds ND,Mizzou,Kansas & Kansas State. PAC adds OU,Ok St,Texas & Texas Tech.
When the big 12 dies and they lose the rights to the name "big 12" would we change our name like the pac 12 and become the big 12?
I think the name "Big Ten" is more symbolic of the conference now than of the actual number of teams. We haven't been at 10 teams since I was like 5 or 6 years old, so almost 20 years. They have branded everything, especially the BTN.
No Big 12 + No Big East = No BCS. Bring it!
though a non-revenue generator, makes the ACC probably the best possible cultural fit for Syracuse if you look at athletic programs more broadly than football and basketball.
If this ends up an autobid conference:
West Virginia, Louisville, Rutgers, UConn, Cinncinaii, TCU, USF, and Villanova(?)
(Their autobid has been indefensible for years already imo, but there you go)