Given today's bed crap, last year's regular season is starting to look more likely. The horrendous defense of last year has become this year's average defense. However, the offense of last year has become inept & confused and failed to score as many points against Iowa as UL-Monroe or Minnesota had earlier. At the end of the year, 7-5 would look like same old, same old 2nd half collapse.
Is 7-5 acceptable?
Being resigned to it with 3 games left is absurdly pessimistic, though.
Would 10-2 cause you to shut up?
No, it isn't acceptable. This team should end the regular season with at least 8 wins.
This is Michigan.
Take it easy. Still think 8-4 is in the cards and that is a good start. Of course we will be upset with any loss though.
nah we'll win two of the next three.
You're asking the wrong question.
The correct question:
Is 7-5 UNACCEPTABLE?!?
Three winnable games left and you want to give up the ghost now? Shame on you, sir.
I'm gonna answer your question with another question:
If it's not acceptable, what are you gonna do about it? Stand up and yell "UNACCEPTABLE" at the top of your lungs?
Of course 7-5 isn't as good as we're capable of this season, but we're in a transition and shit happens.
....is that some folks want to smear themselves with the shit and run down South Main with "OCCUPY MGOBLOG" and "FIRE BORGES" signs.
...8-4 is what I was looking at all year. Had we pulled this one out I would have bumped up to 10-2 or 9-3. We take one next week and split the last two to pull out 9-3 and the Outback bowl (I have my fingers crossed as I live in Tampa).
14-0 is the only acceptable outcome. Every year.
Being within 9 yards and 3 yards of potentially being 9-0, and we're resigning ourselves to Epic Collapse Redux?
I love people.
I agree with Lancer we are solid at home.
It's a trick question because what is the alternative if it's not acceptable? Turn in your fandom? Picket Schembechler hall? Nast email to Dave Brandon?
I kept beating her in Scrabble so now I am not allowed to play it. Same thing for Trivial Pursuit. She won't let me beat her anymore.
After the first nine games, 7-5 would be like getting socks for Christmas. I hope that the team can rebound from this and win at least one and hopefully two more games in the regular season. Given the choice I would rather win out at home, but all teams in the B1G are vulnerable this year and anything is possible in the next three weeks.
would be like getting awesome self-warming socks for Christmas!
Say you love her with super self-warming socks!
if they were Twin City socks...
It's not acceptable. But, it's better than 3-9 or 5-7.
It's called rebuilding. And there's some sense we're doing that, which gives some solace anyway
These r Michigans!!!! We no rebwild!!! We rewroad!!!
with 10 starters back on O and basically 8 back on D. Plus an easier schedule makes 7-5 unacceptable. RR's first year we were rebuilding we are not rebuilding. We may have changed schemes, one for the better and one for the worst, but we are not rebuilding.
GET IT! With the improvement we have seen on D, 7-5 would be like someone shitting on your doorstep
Brady Hoke will not be happy with the season.
Michigan will not win a big ten championship.
At this point in the season, there are many things that could happen off the field, and a few that could happen on the field that would be unacceptable to David Brandon. I doubt seriously that any of those things have anything to do with wins and losses.
What is acceptable to you and me? Nobody cares what we think. Taking a quick glance at this posting board...thank God for that. Thank God for that.
Well I am not sure if it is acceptable but it is where this team will finish. This is not a pessimistic view, I am just being a realistic.
You are just being realistic? We have three games left against teams with the same or more losses than Michigan does. Two of the games are at home. You just know we will lose them all however. Are you just this miserable or do you just root against your team so you can sit back like some prick and tell the two people who tolerate you that you were right, Michigan will suck. Take your negativity and go fuck yourself.
Fair enough. I am a pretty miserable person. No need for the insults though.
I am just frustrated with our fan base jumping to the "we will lose every game line" as soon as things go badly. Today was a bad game but we are a long way from 7 and 5. Cheer the hell up and and root for the team to win a few more games to make it a decent season.
Hey I understand. I could use a more positive outlook on life. I am still looking forward to attending the last two games with my Dad no matter what happens.
Pretty hard to, when every team we have played with a defensive pulse the last 3 years has beat us without much issue.. We find a way to be turnover machines in the games that count, and we always go away from what works for us in every loss..
7-5 will never be an acceptable record at Michigan.
Not a chance without Mattison. And we still have 3 games left to reach 9.
It's possible he might have won 8 or 9 games this year but I think we are better in the long-term with Hoke and Mattison. He wouldn't have been able to pull in the recruits like we have been since Hoke has been here and defense would still be a huge issue.
But the defense would be giving up a lot more points. RR was not the complete coach since he could never find a DC who could coach, or get along with is defensive coach buddies.
No, RR would have been 7-5 or 8-4. I think Hoke will finish up at 8-4 or 9-3. We will win 2 out of the next 3!!!!!
Guess it depends person to person.
For me, I consider 2007 to be a perfectly acceptable/good season. Nobody gave us a chance against the vaunted SEC and Tebow but we dominated them. On the other hand losing like we did in the bowl game last year was not acceptable.
I think we've been competitive/could have won our two losses this year. I dare any of the next three opponents to think they will just walk all over this team. Plus if we beat OSU this year I'd be happy with almost any win total.
So an acceptable season is:
Losing to an FCS team. The most embarassing loss of all-time.
Getting beat 39-7 at home by a team that quit at halftime. Quite frankly, this is worse than any of the RR blowouts considering the team we put out there.
Gaining 90 yards of offense and scoring 3 points against OSU.
But its all okay because we beat Florida in a down year?
A down year is fine when there is promise for better things in the future, but 2007 was a "Next Year is This Year" type of season. 2007 wasnt a total disaster, if only because Mike Hart (Penn State) and Chad Henne (MSU) put the team on their backs, but given our aspirations that year, it was a total disappointment.
This year, I fully expected us to go 9-3. 8-4 is as bad or worse than 7-5 last year because of all the players we have back and the soft schedule.
That '08 Florida win in Lloyd's last game (which was, of course, lots of fun and a great way for him to go out) is to the '07 season as that famous SI cover in '97 is to Marcus Ray's career. That is, it's all the simple-minded people remember. (To be fair, there are some Lloyd haters that remember only Appy State.)
But, no, '07 was *not* acceptable IMO. I agree with coastal blue that the 39-7 loss to Oregon was worse than any of RichRod's losses.
I disagree. We were totally uncompetitive against OSU and Miss. St. at the end of last year and losing against Toledo in 2008 was almost as bad as App. State to me.
A preseason Top 5 team loaded with seniors losing to an FCS school is as bad as a team with one returning starter on O losing to Toledo because a QB threw the ball a split second late resulting in a 100 yard pick 6 and then we missed a chip shot FG to tie the game. STFU.
A preseason top 5 team loaded with seniors losing to a FCS team is as bad as a team with one returning starter on O losing to Toledo. STFU.
Resort to name calling. Real mature, buddy.
a team with Henne, Hart, Long, Manningham, Arrington and a defense that would end up 30ish in the country losing to an FCS team at home is around as acceptable as a 3-9 team beating another 3-9 team. The same FCS team that would lose to two other FCS teams before the season was out....
And yeah we weren't competitive against OSU and MSU at the end of last season, but looking at the team we threw out against Oregon (i.e. the above team I just mentioned) and getting beat just as badly as we did in those two games with a very incomplete team is a far worse loss in my opinion.
I believe this is who Jasper is referring to.
I remember Jonathan Stewart joking with the press about the Oregon/Michigan game. They were in the offensive huddle in the 4th trying to guess which Michigan defensive lineman was going to give up next. Combine that with the worst home loss in nearly 40 years.....yeah, that Oregon game was worse than any RR was coach for.
We were ranked #5 in the nation before App State.....600 yards to Oregon.....losing to Wisky and Ohio State...raise the bar or go root for Northwestern.
This is the dumbest comment ever.
NO, never, ever will be. This current team should be 9-3 minimum with this roster in this years BIG.
I fear that if we go 7-5, there is literally nothing one can do except accept the outcome.
I won't be happy with that though. That is a definite regression as a team,which makes no sense because we don't have two out of three incompetent units like we did last year and this year's schedule is softer.
In all honesty, after our lucky win over ND, 9-3 feels like improvement. 8-4 just means we traded in Wisconsin for Northwestern on our schedule this year. It also means we lost to OSU for the 8th straight time.
I think Borges gets his shit together, we murder Illinois and then win close ones against Nebraska and OSU to finish out the year. We're still in position to win out and go to BCS Bowl and I'll keep believing till the end.
Also, the Big Ten sucks this year.
What do you think Coach Hoke?
Before the season, maybe, but now 8-4 is the minimum in my opinion. 10-2 is obviously what I'd like but with three games left, I only want to win at least two.
A win over Ohio State will erase a lot of this.
It would erase all of it
A win over OSU will make my season. End the carnage!
We're 7-2. Don't worry about what may happen. Let it play out.
We've been in spots like this before with established staffs that had been here several years, and people are going to complain about a staff that's been here about 10 bloody months. Sometimes, people make me want to induce a coma by banging my head against the brick facade of my drafty old ranch house.
Hah, I've got the OP on this one guys.
We can't go 7-5, because we're going to a bowl game, which means we could go 7-6.
but I don't think that a) it's going to happen, or b) it's the end of the world if it does happen. I'll be disappointed but understand that the transition has been a bit shakier than hoped. And I'll have big expectations for 2012.
The schedule gets a lot tougher in 2012. We may start out 1-3 in the non-conference games. I will be happy with an 8-4 record in 2012.
we will win 9 games next year at least. bookmarket.
Given the state of the BIG this year, the fact we returned so many starters on both sides of the ball - hell NO!!
RRod would have gotten to 9-3 with this team even with GERG!
Has it come to this already? Wondering about how RR would have fared?
*sharpens edge of Alumni Association card in the event slitting of wrists becomes only way out*
Well it's Hoke's first year so I don't think "acceptable" really enters the conversation. It's more what do you expect going forward based on what you know right now?
I don't see us losing to Illinois as Zooker is just not good and their offense struggles against good defenses. We have one of those this year! I don't see us losing to a Nebraska team that just lost to Northwestern. O$U plays good enough defense to slow down our offense but IU just put up 20 on them in the Shoe, while the Huskers put up 34 on them on the road.
We can easily win all three games. We may not, but the schedule does work out reasonably well with Illinois on the road and NU and O$U at home. I feel pretty good about us winning 9 games this season. Is that acceptable? I sure think so but I'd prefer 10. I'm just greedy like that.
I don't know where the 8th win will come from........I am not sure if people are looking at this team objectively. We have struggled offensively against Notre Dame, Michigan State and now Iowa. This offense has regressed from last year and Denard looks lost most of the time.
QB Rating for Denard this year:
He's had a few stinkers (SDSU, MSU, IOWA and EMU) but he's also had some very solid games. He also wasn't helped out much today with some drops and some interesting rules interpretations by the referees. The offense is evolving to become more of what Borges wants to run.
QB rating is a wildly problematic stat. And Northwestern beating Nebraska might give hope if Iowa didn't just lose to Minnesota. Overreliance on the transative prperty is misleading.
QB rating is probably more misleading in RR's spread 'n shred. In Al Borges' offense QB rating is much more likely to represent how a QB performed. Denard still throws too many INTs but in games like yesterday's our receivers certainly didn't help him out by dropping quite a few catchable passes.
"I don't see us losing to a Nebraska team that just lost to Northwestern."
Yeah, and we should totally destroy Iowa because they lost to the Gophers, right?
We're playing Nebraska at home. You may have noticed that playing at home gives decent teams a distinct advantage over playing on the road.
NWU: 1-2 (!)
Here's NU and O$U's road record thus far:
Not exactly murder's row.
No but I'm drunk from sadness
Beat OSU. Win your bowl game.
I'm looking at them going 3-1 from here on out. Beating OSU.
1. Your comparison to how other teams played against Iowa earlier in the season is worthless. Just about very team in the Big10 has improved as the season has gone on except Wisconsin and Illinois off the top of my head, so there's no point comparing the scores to earlier in the year.
2. You better secure a good prozac dealer for next year because the road schedule looks like the 7 circles of hell next to this year.
to the men's room when they did our scheduling after divvying up the B1G. How on earth did anyone associated with Michigan think next year's home and away schedule was a good idea?
It's not about orchestrating wins. It's about taking on all comers whenever, wherever, however. F*** the CEOs and accountants and their cynical schedluing. The only reason to be a fan is for "your" team to take on every challenge and give its best. Otherwise,m the wins are a charade.
That is what i expect of myself and my chosen team. YMMV. I would rather lose to Bama than pummel Del State.
To start 6-0 get to 7-1 and finish 7-5 would not be acceptable, but it isn't unlikely. I believe we will overcome Illinois on the road next week, but I think we slip up against Nebraska and Ohio State. To those who say we're solid at home, the best team we beat at home was Notre Dame and that was somehwat of a miracle win. Our only B1G home wins have come against Purdue and Minnesota - not exactly two teams that can indicate how good your team truly is.
At the beginning of the season I predicted a 7-5 season, with us losing to ND but winning at Illinois. That outcome COULD be flipped, and we COULD end 7-5. Is it unacceptable? Unacceptable to who? Of course Hoke will say its unacceptable, but lets take a deep breath a remember this is basically RR's team--Hoke and Company came in in January and did what they could. Next season Hoke has his recruits coming in--how much can be expected from freshman playing the schedule we have next year is another question--but at least that will start to be Hoke's team.
Once we went 7-1, you could smell the winds of a cruel finish blowing in--losing the last four games just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, regardless of the competition level relative to the teams you beat to get to seven. It wasn't the media story of the post-MSMoo loss collapse, its that the schedule was loaded with "better" teams (and in this year of the Big Ten, just what the hell constitutes "better" is anyones guess). Denard is Denard, and I have said it before: he will never take you to the promised land. We can win games, some dramatic, some downright scary, but we will also lose games to good teams, and even lose games that we should have won. Shit happens. Give the Hoke regime some time and get the players that Hoke and Mattison and Uncle Fester want to play their system before we get out the pitch forks and torches.
Nope richrod would have done better than 7-5.
That is all.
That is all.
No, but it's going to happen so we may as well start figuring out the positives to look for in the ensuing beatings.
This will be the last loss of the season. BOOK IT.
A big part of the season is the bowl game. We keep posting about the regular season record. We work on this record to get to a big bowl game. It will be a significantly more acceptable season if we WIN the bowl game.
Acceptable? I don't think anything could happen record wise from here on out that would cause me to seriously question firing the coaching staff. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I said six months ago that I would be satisfied with 7-5, happy with 8-4, really happy with 9-3, and ecstatic with 10-2 or better this year. It takes time and a lot of work to change schemes and staffs. It takes patience. Look at Hoke's results at each school in the long run. That will happen here. And people shouldn't discount just how difficult each game is to play in the big ten. Just look at the last three years.
We are on an upswing no matter what happens with these last few games. Unless we aren't even competitive, which we were today and will be.
Great. So in 5 years we can have a great season.
Remember Lloyd's final season the team finished 8-4 and went on to beat the Gators. This is the Hokester's first season coaching kids that were recruited by Lloyd and Rich Rod. He's doing the best with what he's got. Although Borges needs to stop overthinking his play calling
Remember when 7-5 was known as the "Year of Infinate Pain"? Does that answer your question?
but ya know, there are many things that aren't acceptable. We all have to realize that it will take time for Hoke and crew to get us up to "acceptable."
the team gives its best efforts, any record from 7-5 to 10-2 is completely ascceptable. I have no problem with a team who is in position to pull out a win at the end of a game.
Iowa at home >>>>>>> Iowa away
Michigan at home >>>>>>>>> Michigan away
Illinois at home = Zook
Nebraska at home >>>>> Nebraska away
Ohio State at home >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ohio State away
My point is... the Big House is no easy place to play in and it seems no Big 10 team can win on the road this year. I think we beat Nebraska and Ohio State, but Illinois could go either way.
to the op: no. fuck no
OP, you are a moron. Typical stupid, ignorant fan. Today wasn't the start of a collapse, wasn't even a microcosm of one. Defense played outstanding given the situations they were put in. We had some GREAT returns on special teams. The offense didn't play well, but I blame that on the play calls. Al Borges, stop trying to make Denard even attempt to be a prototypical passer. For three quarters that's what he did, and when it was too late he let Denard loose. It worked great, but too little too late. That is strike 2 for him. 7-5 is not unacceptable, but not good. Should be able to win two more games. 9-3 is what I expect, and I'll be happy because we'll get a winnable bowl matchup and have a 10 win season.
... But don't use the word "outstanding" to describe our defense in any way.
This is Michigan for God's sake
Look I'm not calling for Borges' head but just to be more aware of what type of players he has. You'd think he would already know this. Do you that Cal McGee and Greg Mattison would have the the perfect combo. just until Denard left tho
Look, I'm not calling for Borges' head but just to be more aware of what type of players he has. You'd think he would already know this. Do you that Cal McGee and Greg Mattison would have the the perfect combo, just until Denard left though?
is leaving a very bad taste in my mouth. MSU you felt we could have won; this won we should have.
Worst thing, worse even than the very real prospect of 7-5, is that yesterday may hint at a certin mediocrity that awaits us.
The other day someone said they were ready to back to 9-3. I got news for you: 9-3 is no longer as easily obtained in the B1G. Think 8-4 and 7-5. I like these coaches, and I have been happy to put the sturm and drang behind. But I'm worried about what they play on offense.
should be a full day moratorium before posting afer a loss, and maybe even after a win. People don't use the best judgement when emotionally charged.
With that said, I don't see the need to cruxify the OP. I agree with him to an extent that it was disappointing to see our offense struggle against a team that let other, arguably much weaker, offenses walk all over them and only putting up 9 points doesn't really give me a lot of confidence for our last three games.
Given that we had about 18 returning starters from a team that went 7-5 last year with a brutal schedule (which included 3 BCS teams, an 11 win team on top of that, and then 3 more bowl teams on top of that), no -- 7-5 would absolutely not be acceptable.
But hopefully, we'll at least end up 8-4 and the discussion won't even take place.
It's not going to happen. We'll get at least one more win. Illini are very beatable this year. I'd say that 8-4 is acceptable for this team.
this is why i stay away after a loss.
for making my Sunday morning.
Absoluely unacceptable. The fact that we're blown two games against inferior competition is mind-rendingly frustrating but to assume we lose out? And that that would somehow be OK? Absolutely ridiculous.
Never seen a season with more home/road play quality disparity. I hoped for 8-4 this year which would be a great start for Hoke. That's my expectation. We have a chance in all three remaining games, but I am not optimistic about any one in particular.
Illinois because they're Illinois, but it's a road game so not optimistic after our two prior road showings. This game could be a mirror image of the Iowa game in terms of our offensive play quality. I'd say 45% chance we win because even though we are a better team, we lay big goose eggs on the road.
Nebraska gave us a sign of hope after losing to NW, and given it is at home, we have a chance. However, our offense has yet to exhibit the ability to do anything against good defenses, and NW aside, Nebraska is a quality D. 50% chance we win because we're at home, but their D could show up and no Denard offense has scored 20 points vs a quality D.
Ohio State gives us optimism because it's at home for us, and they have 1st yr coach and 1st yr QB, and OSU laid an egg (albeit winning) vs Indiana. However, they key on Michigan, and with their D, a win for us is unlikely. 30% chance we win.
I'm no Mathlete, but I look at the last three games kind of like going all in with a flush draw (with occasional overcards) three times in a row like Phil Hellmuth did vs Brian Rast heads up in the WSOP this year. On each hand, you are an underdog, but if you add all three chances up, the odds are in your favor you win at least once. Hellmuth lost all three, crushing his chance at a 12th bracelet.
If you used my random odds to win:
45% chance vs Illinois (cuz we are road egg layin fools so far)
50% chance vs Nebraska
30% chance vs OSU (their D is scary and they key on UM)
Pulling out my probability calculations I learned in Stats class in that building right next to Ulrich's in 1989 (forgot the name) odds we lose all three is thus:
.55 * .5 *.7 = .19 so 19% chance we end up 7-5, and 81% chance we end up 8-4 or better.
.45 * .5 * .3 = .07 so 7% chance we end up 10-2, and 93% chance we end up 9-3 or worse.
Just stray thoughts of a random fan, but the way I see it, 8-4 is the expectation, and 9-3 would be a great. 7-5 and 10-2 are both unlikely.
I would grumble a little bit about 7-5 as it means we weren't able to step up against the mid-/tops of weak big ten for a fourth year running. 8-4 would make me happy as clam though, epecially if that win came against NU or OSU.
Yes, coaching change, new systems, etc. It's not easy. But looking at the # of returning starters we had, particularly on offense, and the favorable schedule (just 4 road games, only one rivalry game on the road), and the subsequent 6-0 start, finishing 7-5 would make me very nervous about the long-term future of this program.
8-4 is OK, I guess, but it will be a lot more palatable if that eighth win comes against OSU. We get the weakest OSU team in years, w/out Tressel, at home. That's a game you have to win.
9-3 is a great season, all things considered. Beating Illinois and showing we can actually win on the road against a non-cupcake would be a big step for this team, and then if we can just split the last two at home, we're there.