43-37 since Lloyd retired

Submitted by MGlobules on

Let's all sear this into our craniums/a, and have it tatooed on our chests, what do you say? 43-37 since Lloyd. When was the last time you saw this team play with swagger? 

We need a new coach with fire. We need to shut up about the tradition for half a decade. And then--if we've got anywhere--let's quietly reference it as something we're trying to live up to. The 1940s are well and truly over.  

Qmatic

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^

Remember the days where we would get so pissed over a 10-2 season? Granted those teams (especially the 03 team) were talented to win the National Championship but damn those days are long gone and don't appear to be coming back. Short of some how striking gold and hiring someone like what Auburn did last year with Malzahan I don't see the ship turning in the near future. I'll never be satisfied with mediocrity, but I've come to accept the reality that currently that is what this program has become.

I can't wait til it is January and I can fully devote my fanhood to the Basketball team.

Magnus

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:07 AM ^

Ugh. Firing a coach four games into the season does absolutely nothing for the program. Can we please wait until the end of the season to have an endless number of threads calling for people to be fired? It's not positive for the fans, the players, the recruits, etc. Chill out. It's not like there's anyone better who's going to take the job and make a midseason push for a playoff spot.

Some of you people really suck.

Yeoman

September 22nd, 2014 at 4:05 PM ^

All that stuff is what got him an interview as OC, and eventually the job. It didn't land him any HC offers.

----

This isn't on topic, particularly, but your comment got me curious about how those performances compared to baseline. Offensive FEI rankings; bold years are Nussmeier's:

Washington (it would be nice to have a couple of years before this but Fremeau starts in 2007):

  • 2007: 25
  • 2008: 109
  • 2009: 41
  • 2010: 63
  • 2011: 24
  • 2012: 60
  • 2013: 13

How you evaluate that probably depends on what you think was going on in 2008.

Alabama:

  • 2007: 45
  • 2008: 16
  • 2009: 5
  • 2010: 3
  • 2011: 11
  • 2012: 5
  • 2013: 9

I tend to trust the positive evaluations of people that have worked with him. But in a vacuum, the results are just as consistent with the theory that he's taken the right jobs. Top-ten offenses have been the norm at Alabama since Saban got there.

I want to believe there's more to it than that, and I will when there's clear evidence of improvement here. But for all the apparent advancement in the individual components this year (better run blocking especially), the overall production doesn't seem any better than last (when they start posting oFEI rankings in a few weeks we can see if I'm right about this).

MGlobules

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^

that calls for Hoke's head at midseason. If the team continues to tumble I would definitely consider it, though--make Nussmeier acting head and see if he buoyed the team up. 

And the notion that it would do "absolutely nothing for the program"? Maybe, maybe not. Could be a signal that Brandon was getting real. Being able to pull the trigger on a really good coach--after a really careful season-long search--might help keep some recruits. Finally, if Hoke is gone no matter what (which some homers here will be the last to accept), then simply spiralling down the season could be a huge mistake.

Let's hope they pick it up Saturday and continue to get better. 

  

Magnus

September 22nd, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^

Actually, you said "we need a new coach with fire."

Which implies exactly what I said - that you think Hoke needs to be fired in the middle of the year.

If it doesn't mean that, then you're saying Hoke should have until the end of the year. And if at the end of the year, Hoke is 10-2, then we don't need a new coach at all.

So I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

MichiganSports

September 22nd, 2014 at 1:24 PM ^

But we won't be 10-2 at the end of the year, we just lost at home to a team that is worse then 6 of the 8 teams remaining on our schedule and we suck even worse on the road.

That being said i agree to wait till the end of the regular season, but if DB waits till after the bowl game again he needs to be fired as well.

yossarians tree

September 22nd, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^

Thank you Magnus.

This is not good, certainly, but the Old Days people are pining for of year-after-year domination are never coming back to anyone not being coached by Nick Saban in the SEC. I believe we have good players and coaches, but it hasn't come together yet. Maybe it never will.

I still believe this team would be right where we thought they would be if it had a really good pro-style quarterback who had a grasp of the system. It doesn't. Thus, this.

MichiganSports

September 22nd, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^

I agree our QB situation isn't great (though we don't know what Shane is yet) but this goes beyond that. Our Coaching is obviously lacking in making adjustments and developing talent and those are huge issues that are holding us back.

UMFanstuckinOhio

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:13 AM ^

lets not forget that one of the reasons we are in this mess is because of Llyod Carr. He got lazy in recruiting his last 2 plus years here and he did not exit and keep his hands out of the program when he retired. Thus we have had a mess at the head choaching position. Thanks Carr. Plus I get sick of hearing how great of a coach he was. Only 3 years did he lose less than 2 games, and one of those years was with mostly Mollers players. He was overrated. Another case of boy we are proud to have a Michigan Man, and settle for being average. It just so happens that being average looks great to where we have been the last several years.

Felix.M.Blue

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^

upset in back to back years by NW in 95-96

lost 9-3 at Purdue in 96

unprepared to start the 98 season 0-2 (ND and Syracuse)

1999 - great team that lost back to back MSU Illinois games.

2000 - lost road opener to UCLA, lost to Purdue and NW after leading by 2 TD's in each game

2001 - lost road opener to Wash. Clockgate in which Michigan blew lead. Killed by TN

2002 - Lost road opener to ND. Lost 34-9 vs Iowa at home.

2003 - Lost road opener at Oregon. Up by 14 in Iowa...special teams...loss

2004 - Lost road opener to ND. Favored in Columbus made young Troy Smith look like Vince Young (37-21)

2005 - lost 5. Punt vs osu, ugly bowl game loss to Neb. horrible uninspired loss to Minn at home

2006 - played 4 ranked teams. beat ND and Iowa lost last 2 games OSU and USC

2007 - The Horror, Oregon, and injuries

 

NorthwestGOBLUEfan

September 22nd, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^

First off the assistant coaches have a shiut load to to with bringing in recruits and at times spend more time communicating with recruits then the head coaches. So yes Mollers was the coach but doesn't mean they were his players. And we all know Lloyd was along time assistant before he took over. Facts are facts!

Everyone Murders

September 22nd, 2014 at 11:08 AM ^

I think we all agree we should except being average.  Just so long as we don't accept it!

Seriously, though - I don't think anyone frequenting this board is jonesing for mediocrity.  The vibe around here seems to be that some people's patience is at an end, while others want to give the season a bit more time to play out.  (I'm in the latter camp - new OC, new system, only four games in - but I am sympathetic with those who have run out of patience.  In my eyes, a solid B1G season will atone for the two early-season embarrassments.)

Felix.M.Blue

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:40 AM ^

He had quite a few guys on staff at different periods of time that went on to do well at other places I think.

Didn't really produce Head Coaching canidates.

Herman went to the Giants I think, Malone went to the Saints.

T Austin was well respected as was Vance Bedford.

At the time Ron English was the missing piece but that didn't end up going that well.

Some well respected guys but didn't have any Head Coaching material type guys.

cp4three2

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:39 AM ^

Whether or not he wanted to, and whether or not he was angry about his guys not getting interviewed, he needed to come out and support Rich Rod the way that Bo supported him when he was floundering. 

 

He didn't and that's one of the many reasons we're here today. (Yes, Rich should have been more gracious, etc). 

A2Fan

September 22nd, 2014 at 10:52 AM ^

Lloyd Carr's departure was awkward to say the least. I am of the belief that the causes of the Malaise that we are now mired in can be traced back to whatever behind the scenes dissension precipitated his decision. If he found the situation untenable then is it any wonder that our Big House remains divided

Until the roots of the problem are addressed the fruits will continue to wither on the vine.

JediLow

September 22nd, 2014 at 2:52 PM ^

I'd kill for the teams... the coaching, not so much. We were consistently getting burned by any spread offense/mobile quarterback, the play calling with asinine (run left, run left, run left, run left, run left), and we never played to win (just not lose... which made us lose a lot more games than we should have).

 

W/L is terrible right now, but there's some serious revisionist history going on about Carr. He was a fairly good coach but there was a huge dropoff at the end of his career and he was never really an elite coach.

jonvalk

September 22nd, 2014 at 9:34 PM ^

If by consistently, you mean 3 games in his career, then yes, we consistently were burned by spread teams. We got torched by Oregon after The Horror and the previous year against OSU and Troy Smith (who won the Heisman). Armanti Edwards beat us consistently during The Horror. What other spread offenses burned us? We dismantled Florida in Carr's last game (the score was a poor indicator of the actual game). Maybe you think USC was spread? Texas had an amazing mobile QB in Young, but they beat us on a last second field goal, so that's hardly a thrashing. People forget how consistent and level- headed the Carr teams played because at the time he was too conservative for our tastes.



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