to be fair, I believe the severance would have been in the $3M range had they fired him before the bowl game. he probably should have been given a ring.
3&OUT: RR and Staff didn't get Gator Bowl rings?
Yeah, his assistants were treated so well too!
They all have jobs now? Where's Greg Robinson? Where's Adam Braithwaite?
Thanks Dudeness. I felt the same way after finishing the book.
It's sad that the only person who didn't act like a "Michigan Man" was the one doing the hiring and firing for the University of Michigan. Bo taught DB better than the course of action he took on many levels. AAMOF, DB has done quite a few things that would have had Bo wanting to pin him against a wall and say, "WTF are you doing?"
I only disagree with one thing in Dudeness' post. I feel that DB's actions won't ever come back to bite him on the butt. DB's teflon coating is so thick and strong that any teeth would just slide off. He'll still be telling everyone how great he is when he is 80 years old.
What do you think about Bo firing Ernie Harwell? I thought Bo did nothing wrong in firing Ernie and I think Brandon did nothing wrong in firing RR.
How long was Ernie at UofM? Honest question.
Ernie was never at UofM to the best of my recollection.
Do you believe Brandon had legit case for firing RR? Honest question
Was Bo the GM of the Tigers? I am lost with how Bo firing Ernie relates to DB firing RR.
I think there is no way any coach can be deemed a success or failure in 3 seasons (unless he lied on his resume, beat up his wife, etc.) and I believe RR only was genuinely given 2 (NOBODY was winning with the 2008 team save Carr).
So no I don't believe DB had a legit case for firing RR.
That's cool but that's where we disagree. I was on record, somewhere on this blog, for RR getting a fourth year no matter what. However, I certainly can see where DB could come to the conclusion that a change was necessary.
We were absolutely obliterated by tsio and Mississippi State, we gave up 458 points total...what else do you need?
There was nothing wrong with firing Ernie because Bo thought he was slipping as a broadcaster and said as much publicly. I like Ernie, but I too thought he was slipping as an announcer in that time period. I think his leave of absence did him well. Ernie was much better when he returned to the booth.
I was just getting used to Rick Rizz and "GOODBYE BASEBALL"
You can see from this 1990 LA Times article where the idea that Bo fired Ernie came from. It seems to have come right from Ernie.
Harwell said he suggested being re-evaluated after 1991 with his return possible, but, "Bo was very forthright, which I appreciated, and he said, 'We have decided that we really don't want you to come back.'
Scott Shafer disagrees with your assessment. Sometimes, breaking up ain't easy, as RR can attest from both sides.
I think this was already brought up on the boards here, and the general consensus was it was a dick move by Michigan
In the end, its probably better not to have anything that would just revisit that nightmare.
Dick move, but it's not like he'd really want the ring anyway.
Says who, you? He loved that team, who in their right mind wouldn't want something special like that to commemorate his final season with a group of guys that meant something to him?
And plus, it's probably a ballin' ass ring
From what I hear, it's a funky ass ring. I wouldn't want the ring. To me, it'd just be a symbol of my failure, especially since he got it after he was fired (right?). You'd be a little insulted by a "teacher of the year" award after you were laid off by that school wouldn't you?
I'd be proud of it. That doing my job well in at least the eyes of someone (in that case...fellow teachers?) had happened, no matter what. Especially if I'd given it my all, effort-wise, at the job. Corny, perhaps. But true.
You should only get a ring if you win the bowl game. Someone with a 6-6 record and a loss in a bowl that probably shouldn't exist in the first place, should not receive a ring for having a failure of a season. Give them a little placque of the event.
Rings are for winners. and teacher of the year awards are for teachers. Come on man!
This is not an issue about what the former coaching staff should or shouldn't have gotten. The fact is the team, including the former coaching staff, played in the Gator Bowl, and the current system awards teams that play in the Gator Bowl with Gator Bowl rings. The fact that Michigan didn't send the former coaching staff Gator Bowl rings is at best inconsequential but petty and at worst classless. If you disagree, consider this: West Virginia (the same school that ran the smear campaign against Rodriguez in 2008) sent their former coaches rings for their BCS bowl game in the 2007 season.
Sorry, I was actually commenting on the person who said they wouldn't want a ring because it would remind them of failure and I agree.
Rich Rod should have gotten a ring for being the leader and coach of that team due to the fact that they gave rings out. Do I think anyone should have received a ring? No.
This is clear proof Brandon made his decision to fire RR before the bowl game!
Really? You feel sorry for rr and his crew because we ain't send them some funky ass rings from a game they laid down in and embarrassed the whole Michigan program on national television. I don't care what you read in that book it doesn't take a book to understand they didn't deserve a ring. I sat through those three years and I don't need a book to tell your it was the most horrible football experience I have witnessed in my life and to end it the way the rr staff did was embarrassing and unfair did you watch the game we were totally unprepared outplayed out coached......hold on let me read your thread again cause I know dam well u ain't tryin say your upset rich rod didn't get a ring for that bowl game!!!!!
Damnit, my angry sports talk radio devotee to English translator is off for Veterans' Day.
You're right. Those kids owed you so much more. You've certainly earned it.
What language is this?
Your grammar is the only embarrassing thing in this thread. The non-use of punctuation and misuse pretense of words made your post come across as a rant and less as thoughtful disagreement.
Flagged for Grammar Nazi violation. Grammar Nazis gotta edit. Misuse pretense?
/s (btw I agree with your point)
has been the most horrible grammatical experience that I have participated in, in my life.
Flagged for Grammar Nazi violation. Grammar Nazis gotta edit. Double in's?
/s (I also agree with your point)
You feel sorry for rr and his crew because we ain't send them some funky ass rings
...was where I stopped reading the post out of fear that I may loose some IQ points.
im sorry, i dont speak douchebag.
Terrelle Pryor is that you over there? You almost had us fooled ya know.
5th grade teacher to read the book to you in class. It might prove to be enlightening for you.
I thought I was on eleven wairriors for a second. You are an embarassment.
+ Eleventy Bajillion
but, it's all in the rear view mirror now.
Ole Miss, Tulane, Arizona, and FAU programs have been effectively reduced to rubble.
RR is not lacking for coaching opportunities at places that would probably love to have him.
If he gets the Ole Miss job, there could be future payback for Mullen & Co.
I'm curious whether RR's former assistants like Barwis (consultant for NY Mets) and Calvin Magee (Pitt) would follow him. Perhaps not.
Barwis owns a gym in Plymouth, MI now (Barwis Methods) so I doubt he would uproot that to go to Tulane, etc.
Barwis seems to be doing quite well here (in MI). If I were closer I would work out there.
If that is true I be like dang because that's where I be at.
Here's hoping. I so want to work out with the Manimal.
A workout that's guaranteed to transform you.
Dammit, I can't wait for my book to come in, these posts are killing me.
John U Bacon wrote a book about the three years that RR spent at Michigan??
Just finished my copy last night.
I feel really bad for RR even though I did before I read it. The book just solidified what I suspected was happening and did happen.
Michigan Arrogance is a double edged sword, but in the end I will choose to be welcoming - until proven foolish for being so - in my future endeavours. I just think that is the right way to treat people.
I know a lot of people on here have mixed feelings about you, but you're an alright dude, Dudeness
That's not the first time I've been able to communicate that.
I paid good money to go to the game and sit through that mess.
On the tragedy scale, this one is somewhere below "hangnail."
I think it's the very triviality of the issue that makes the move so classless.
I finished the book last night, and I have to say the one thing I took away from it is the feeling that RR deserved the support he got. I honestly can't look at any incident in that book and say to myself "I'm embarrassed for supporting him while he coached my team". It would have been nice to have taken care of business in the "match points" Bacon talks about (and I do agree with him that those were match points) and started a legacy here based on the same kind of success previous coaches had. But, at the very least, I can say that I was "all in" for someone who deserved it, and I remain proud that I was. I think that's probably pretty special when you consider what a three year embedding with Tressel, Kelly, Saban, Miles or others would have one of their supporters feeling.
HisDudeness' quote is right on as a summary of the RR story at Michigan, IMO.
This shit again?
We've been over the contract stuff as infinitum in the past 4 years. Being furious about the university paying part of the buyout is utterly ridiculous.
Did you even read my post? I never said a thing about his buyout, what he was paid, anything like that.
Did you read the post I was replying to?
I'm on my phone so it might be caved for you and not me and thus confusing.
Okay that makes sense, although now I'm kind of curious what the troll said (it's not just caved here, it's invisible).
as our coaches but seriously, WHY CAN"T WE ALL BE ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY?
several times in the book that we, the fans & bloggers, always supported RichRod.
Hasn't this been covered in the myriad RichRod/3NOut threads?
It's time to let it go.
As an aside, what was RichRod going to do with such a ring...take it to Zales and sell it since "we buy your broken/scrap gold"?
I wish Rita would knock it off with these OP posts. This is getting old.
I thought so. But I'm still reading the book. I thought I was over the RR thing until I started this book. I'm glad we have Hoke but I really wish MSC, Martin handled things differently. And Carr, he looks bad in this book. The situation was messy though, so I'm glad it's over I guess.
Not like RR is going to be walking around showing off a ring from that game...though it would been a touch of class to send them to the coaches...it's not like they quit to go somewhere else.
I agree that it was a dickish move, but would RR or any of his staff really want a ring reminding them of the blowout humiliation that capped a terrible three years at Michigan and likely was the final straw that led to their firing?
Also, this is not entirely uncommon in corporate america, which is where DB is from. If you are on a team that works on a huge M&A deal, and you are fired before the deal closes, you will not receive credit or the usual "deal trinkets" that are given out. You are no longer an employee. By the time the rings came in, RR was gone.
Not defending Michigan here, just being practical.
The players all got rings for the Gator Bowl. The team earned them, including the coaches. They should at least be given the option to accept (or reject) the rings (though if Rodriguez rejected his ring the press would have a field day with that).
There are some parts of being a football coach that are corporate and some that are not. I understand the practicality of making that move in a merger/acqusition, but showing respect to a man that was the face of your program surely transcends the business aspect of his layoff.
Hate to hijack a thread but I also finished the book last night (seems many did over the weekend).
I will preface all I say with that "I am by no means a QB coach, or play one on tv" but it seems to me that Denard's tendancy to throw off his back foot came in the MSU game when he had the swollen bursa sac.
Does anyone think that due to injury Denard established "a bad habit" and that when he is knicked up a bit reverts back to playing it safe with his knee? I personally think this is the case when he refuses to turn his lower body (which would expose his left leg).
I think he gets excited and his mechanics break down. Truthfully.
He rushes it and arms throws the ball which is a bit different from not planting your front foot and driving into the throw.
Giving RichRod & the assistant coaches Gator Bowl rings would have been a classy thing to do. However, I doubt that any of them want to be reminded of that game. RichRod's ring would have ended up in the bags of cloths he donated to the Salvation Army.
I wonder why JUB (and the OP) even bothered to bring it up.
I would bet a lot of money that ring would have been put next to the Sugar Bowl ring in whatever case RR has for them.
Remember, it's not about what happened in the bowl game. RR cares deeply about the kids he coached through his time at Michigan, and that was literally the only trophy he would have had to celebrate it.
It's over and done with, but when WVU is brought up as making classier decisions than Michigan, that's generally an issue Michigan people aren't comfortable with.
Remember, it's not about what happened in the bowl game. RR cares deeply about the kids he coached through his time at Michigan, and that was literally the only trophy he would have had to celebrate it.
It would've been one way for him remember those relationships he built with those kids. He deserved better.
would be a pretty easy way to weed out the RR didn't get his ring because he's not a "Michigan Man" theory.
Maybe its just because I have never seen anyone wear one for losing, but I thought that teams only ordered rings when they won the bowl games..
He went out and made the ballsiest hire of the year who in less than one full season has turned this program around. Recruiting: check. Assistant coach hiring: check. Players who actually respect him: check. Thrilled fan base: check.
I honestly don't know how you can say definitively that he has turned anything around. Do I think he is right for the job? Of course. But at this point, we have basically beaten everyone we did last year and lost to everyone we did last year in a much weaker big 10. Substitute Nebraska for Wisconsin and we are looking at the same type of opponents at the back end of our schedule also. What happens if we lose our last 2 games and the bowl game (not saying that will happen, but a definite possibility)? Then, your "turnaround" of our program consists of 1 more win in a weaker big 10 with 10 returning starters, more home games and not playing 2 of the best teams from the other division. You have no idea how the end of this season, with our toughest competition ahead, will end.
We are crushing crappy teams, as opposed to barely eeking them out in embarrassing fashion and we are beating / playing with teams deep into the games who have more talent than us (Notre Dame / MSU). Last year, if a team had even close to our talent, we were getting blown off the ball on every play and were completely out of it by 5 minutes into the third quarter.
Big Blue is completely delusional. We just played a better Illinois team (at their house) and beat them in a decisive 31-14 way, as opposed to an embarrassing miracle of winning 67-65 at home. I'm assuming Big Blue considers this as equivalent since "a win is a win." How about blowing out Minnesota / Purdue versus winning a nailbiting slugfest with Indiana? Equivalent? We are so much better than last year, and you can't make the argument that this is solely due to 5 extra pounds of muscle and a year of experience.
Notre Dame had a lot more talent than us last year, and we beat them as well. We lost by 3 less points this year to MSU than we did last year. We lost by 2 less points against Iowa this year than we did last year. But you are right, returning 20 starters doesn't mean anything.
Note: I agree, we are much better this year. When you graduate a total of 12 seniors (total), usually not only do your starters get better (all 20 of them), but you are much deeper. Add on the fact that not only is the B10 much weaker, but of the three teams we played last year that were 11-1, this year we don't play one of them and the other two already have 6 losses combined. Your entire post is why no one respects you. Again, what happens if we lose the next 3 games? I am surprised you didn't answer that, seeing that your post is so well thought out.
In regards to all of the other embarrassing games we played (UMass, Indiana, Penn State, and Mississippi State?
Im surprised you didnt address those. I will agree with you somewhat if we get obliterated the last two games, but we were sooooo terrible at everything other than offense (against crappy teams) last year relative to this year, that you are one of maybe 10 people in this country that would argue that the jury is still out on whether Hoke is vastly outperforming RR.
In our losses last year, we were blown out immediately, and save Iowa for about 40 seconds, there was no glimmer of hope after the 2nd quarter. Against State (at State) this year, we were a 4th and 1 away from tying the game over halfway through the 4th quarter. Against Iowa (at Iowa), we played a brutal game with a bunch of questionable referee calls and it still took a miracle of futility to keep us from overtime.
Regarding returners: Obviously it helps, but if you think anybody on the defense or special teams would have been playing to this level had RR & Co. stayed, you are out of your mind. We had a lot of returners last season, and we got worse. Sure, we had some true freshmen playing, but that is a knock on RR's recruiting and player development. Then again, we have two playing this season, and I dont hear Hoke bitching that "VINCE LOMBARDI COULD NOT FIX THESE PROBLEMS."
I don't think you realize what you are comparing. The B10 this year is not anywhere close to the B10 last year, so we should be doing a lot better considering we brought back more starters than anyone else and also are getting great contributions from some freshmen.
Take this into account: Last year, the top 4 teams in the league went a combined 42-10 and we played all 4 of them. This year, the top 4 teams are 32-6 (at this point) and we don't play 2 of them. If we take the B10 standings and look at the best 4 teams that we play....the record would be 27-13. That's right, the best 4 teams from the B10 that we play this year already have more losses, each with 2 games left, than the top 4 teams we played last year. The B10 sucks ass this year. So to hold this team, with 20 returning starters, to the same standards as last year is just uninformed. Yes, we are doing better. Yes, Hoke is doing good. None of that is in question. To say that he turned around the program when we have beaten the same teams (by bigger margins) and lost to the same teams (by about the same margins) isn't really telling me anything other than you disliked the last coaching regime so much you can't actually be objective.
Should the fanbase love the fact that Dave Brandon decided that pettiness was the way to go when deciding whether or not to give Rich Rodriguez what he earned (however mediocre an award it may be)? Or would you prefer that we, the Michigan fanbase, list off every single good thing that Dave Brandon has done every time we want to criticize him for something he did that we don't like?
Dave Brandon has done a good job in hiring Brady Hoke despite many skeptics that were worried that he was too old and had a career losing record as a head coach. However, this doesn't nullify Dave Brandon from doing the right thing elsewhere, like withholding the previous coaching staff's Gator Bowl rings that they earned.
Honestly, given that we know John Bacon's flubbed at least two things in the book (the way the 2008 Purdue game unfolded, and an imaginary Lloyd Carr "no class attendance during rivalry week" policy), how can we assume this story is accurate? For all we know, maybe Brandon wanted to give them out and there was just some bureaucratic glitch that caused their shipment to be delayed.
Where was this "no class attendance during rivalry week" thing refuted? I read it in the book, but I haven't seen evidence that it's incorrect.
There are bound to be a few factual errors in every book. That doesn't mean we should throw out the whole thing.
Some of Carr's own players have come forward and refuted it.
No, we don't necessarily have to toss everything out, but we don't have to accept everything in as gospel, either. It seems that Bacon rushed the book to print and got sloppy with at least some details. Or maybe he pulled a Mitch Albom and wasn't really around all the time, like he claims. (Didn't he have classes to teach during those 3 years?)
When people say things like "I hate ________ because of Bacon's book," that's problematic. We don't know how reliable of an observer Bacon is.
Well, hating anyone based on this book is probably a little bit stupid. Not that that would stop someone on the internet, though...
Carr student athletes attended class during rivalry weeks. The word of the person who's class attendance is in question is probably not the best or most reliable evidence.
The final draft of the book was finished at the end of the summer. Seems to me if there was a bureaucratic error, some kind of temporary oversight, etc., those guys would have gotten their rings by then. They didn't. Michigan didn't have a problem getting rings to other people who had left the University. It hasn't been refuted by anyone yet, so seems to me that one's probably true.
Until proven otherwise, I refuse to see this as anything other than a rather petty move on Dave Brandon's part.
I wonder if Tate Forcier got a ring.
Regardless, this was a lame move by Dave Brandon and the Michigan people. Those coaches (most of them, anyway) busted their asses and took a lot of heat for a lot of things that were beyond their control.
I think it was time for Rodriguez to go, but I still respect the guy for his efforts. He's just not very good at a few key things.
Whoa I take it that you uptight assholes didn't get the joke
All in all I'm most disappointed that I wouldn't have had the opportunity to purchase the ring at the Salvation Army along with the Rich Rod sweatshirt that I was able to nab. It was Buy 2 Get 1 free that day too.
Anyone defending rich rod can kiss my ass. U fucking rednecks kill me how ya like that grammar
Are the mods on vacation? Could we ban this jackass before we become MLive or RCMB
I'm third generation U-M and I've been a fan since the early 70s. The two things I've been most proud of over decades as a Michigan fan is class and integrity. Even when things weren't going great, the program maintained its integrity and mostly maintained its class (Carr could get awfully snippy with the media, which is understandable but sometimes came across as petulant).
After reading Three and Out, the ring thing strikes me as the final example of the descent into classlessness that marked the Rodriguez years. Apparently Carr, some of his former players, and some booster-types decided for whatever reasons that Rodriguez didn't belong. Things happened like leaks to the Free Press, etc. Of course Rodriguez did plenty to undermine himself, but that's beside the point.
It doesn't matter whether Rodriguez et al. wanted the damn rings. The classy thing to do would be to send them rings. Brandon failed to do that, for whatever reason. He didn't do the classy thing.
Look at it this way: imagine Rodriguez had gotten a better defensive coordinator, turned things around, won some of those match points, and was still the coach. The book would've come out anyway and almost all the stuff that happened in the first three years would still have happened. And to me it would still be classless. I forget which former player uttered the "Lloyd Carr's University of Michigan" on MNF, but whoever that is and whoever agreed with him is a classless jerk. It was an embarrassing time for Michigan. It seems lessons have been learned, but it's shameful that they had to be.
Bo didn't want to fire Ernie; he was simply following orders, as he felt it was his responsibility to do so. ... As for the rings, if the story as described in Bacon's book is accurate, it was bad form, even childish, for the athletic department to play favorites with the rings.
I'm sure Rich wants a ring of the game that cemented his demise on the mantle. I'm sure he wants to remember the bickering he had with players and coaches on he sideline as it all melted around him.
This means nothing,
The point isn't whether he wants the damn ring or not. It could have a spot in a garbage can the second it hits his mailbox for all I care.
The point is that Michigan is the bigger man in this and sends it to him (and the rest of his coaching staff) because that's the adult thing to do. They coached that team to that game, they deserve everything everyone else in the department got, even the ones who didn't support him.
To me the heart of the matter isn’t if RR wanted the ring or not. It is an issue of principle and a matter of right and wrong. Not giving RR or anyone he hired rings is wrong and doesn’t seem like a very “Michigan” thing to do. As someone else pointed out, West Virginia sent RR a Fiesta Bowl ring even though he departed before the bowl game. They managed to run a very successful smear campaign against him but that still didn't stop them from sending him a ring for the team that HE constructed and lead to that bowl game.
If you like RR or hate RR is irrelevant. No one can debate that he and his staff poured their heart and soul into the program amid very difficult circumstances, many of which were no fault of his own but were created by his detractors. And as John U. Bacon said himself there is no question RR wanted Michigan to win every game and that is more than he can say for many other “Michigan Men” during that same time period.
I think DB is a hypocrite. RR deserved much better than he got here.