3 Games In...Thoughts? Likes? Dislikes? What is YOUR 2-deep?

Submitted by Mr. Yost on

3 games in, all the "Every Snap Videos" to look at...what do you like, what haven't you liked? What is your 2-deep?

 

Here is mine:

QB: Denard Robinson
-Devin Gardner

RB: Fitzgerald Toussaint
-Vincent Smith

WR1: Junior Hemingway
-
Jeremy Jackson

WR2: Roy Roundtree
-Martavious Odoms

SLOT: Jeremy Gallon
-Drew Dileo/Kelvin Grady

TE: Kevin Koger
-Steve Watson

LT: Taylor Lewan
-Michael Schofield

LG: Ricky Barnum
-Michael Schofield

C: David Molk
-Rocko Khoury

RG: Patrick Omameh
-Michael Schofield

RT: Mark Huyge
-Michael Schofield

-------------------------------------------------------------

WDE: JiBreel Black
-Craig Roh

DT: William Campbell
-Ryan Van Bergan

NG: Mike Martin
-William Campbell

SDE: Ryan Van Bergan
-Will Heininger

WLB: Brandon Hawthorne (vs. Spread) / Cam Gordon (vs. Power)
-Brandon Herron

MLB: Kenny Demens
-J.B. Fitzgerald

SLB: Jake Ryan
-Cam Gordon

Wideside CB: Troy Woolfolk
-Blake Countess

Shortside CB: JT Floyd (zone) / Courtney Avery (man)
-Tony Anderson/Raymon Taylor

Nickelback: Courtney Avery
-Gregg Brown

FS: Thomas Gordon
-Carvin Johnson

SS: Jordon Kovacs
-Marvin Robinson

 

Thoughts:

  • Fitz is the #1, Vince is #2 and the 3rd down back
  • EDIT: No Shaw? I know. However, I'd use him as a return man.
  • Brandon Moore has NOT impressed at all, I've seen him knocked back more than a few times. Watson is my #2.
  • Michael Schofield has played well in spot duty, definitely my #6 starter on the OL outside of center.
  • Love Black's potential. I'd start Black, but play him and Roh 51/49 with Black getting the slight edge.
  • EDIT: Would absolutely play Roh-Martin-RVB-Black on passing downs!
  • Campbell should start period. RVB is "okay" and Heininger can't get it done in the middle. Campbell has EARNED the start.
  • Hawthorne would be my WLB vs. spread teams, I know we haven't seen Cam, but I'm a believer...he'd be my WLB against power teams
  • Ryan is the SLB, he's earned it.
  • Would like to see Countess get more PT
  • Floyd can't tackle for s***, however, he'd above average when playing zone...to slow to play man. When I'm running zone from the position, Floyd is the guy...when it's man, Avery is in. Obviously this isn't a definite and you can't tell the offense what you're doing. But you get the drift...
  • Avery should be the slot CB, the nickelback, not Thomas Gordon, not Raymon Taylor. I was disappointed to hear Mattison say "he's never played the position." Actually he played it last year at times and did a good job. He has great hips and is a PERFECT nickelback IMO. And he'll tackle! I'm thinking of MSU and Indiana last year specifically.
  • Safeties are good...I'd just play Carvin more and Marvin less. Furman isn't listed but he needs to move to SS or WLB. He's not a free safety.

 

CRex

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 AM ^

Let's wait to see SDSU, Minny, and Northwestern before making a final decision on Roh and Campbell.  Pillaging EMU's offensive line isn't a feat by any stretch.  So far I'm definitely liking Black more though, but if Roh flipped the switch they come closer to being equal.

Dizzo

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:12 AM ^

I'd like to see Roh and Black both in, on opposite sides.  We aren't getting a decense rush out of our line, and those two guys on opposite ends with a combination of RVB, MM, and BWC in the middle might generate some more pressure. 

I'd also like to see Gallon on kick returns like a lot of others have mentioned.  Vince is shifty, but doesn't seem to have accelerate fast enough for a kick returner, or have the all out speed to run towards the sideline and get the edge.  The last kickoff I think he took it around the 3 and was tackled before he got to the 20, which is concerning.  And if they aren't going to play Shaw at RB, maybe they try him back there?  Sprinter-types usually do well on kick returns, and that is Shaw's strength. 

Yostbound and Down

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^

Since VanBergen does have good size for a DE, I liked the approach of moving him inside on passing downs and getting Roh and Black on the field at the same time. Normally I would have thought this to be a bad situation but Martin commands so many double teams that VanBergen really isn't disadvantaged that much. Regardless RVB needs to be on the field as much as possible.

StephenRKass

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:25 AM ^

Is there a way to have both Roh & Black on the field at the same time? With the DL rotation, maybe they both just play a lot, subbing in for one another.

BWC . . . I will defer to Mattison. Hoke has said repeatedly that what you do in practice translates to getting the start (and doing it on the field.) I see Campbell improving, but I think that the coaches need to continue to motivate him by not just giving him the start until he has truly earned it. This is one of those times, where like with Stonum, you have to do the right thing, even if it hurts the team in the short term. Campbell has to be in shape, and do the right thing reflexively (pad level and all.) It doesn't take rocket science to see that Heininger is going to hurt the team.

My hope is that they work these things through over the next several games. Our schedule is extremely kind to gradually working Campbell in. I don't think he is critical vs. SDSU, Minn, NW, MSU, or Purdue. MSU would have been a problem, but with the decimation of their OL, I'm not afraid of any of the next 5 teams (in terms of DL play for Michigan.) That isn't to say that they are all going to be wins, but that having Campbell on the line starting isn't as critical. I think he becomes critical in all the November games, and if we're fortunate, in December.

On a related topic to Campbell and unmotivated players, I wonder what Mattison would have done with Gabe Watson. To my way of thinking, he never reached his full potential.

profitgoblue

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:30 AM ^

Does a healthy Odoms get the nod over Gallon in the slot? On a related note, does anyone know when Odoms might be a full strength? I miss seeing him out there.

Also, I disagree on putting Vincent Smith as the #2.  He's proven himself to be the most consistent back in the stable and, on all accounts, is the best blocker.

 

CRex

September 22nd, 2011 at 12:38 PM ^

Rotate them.  Odoms has some serious chops as a pass blocker but Gallon has been proving himself a good man downfield.  You can do stuff like run two designed QB runs with Odoms in there for extra blocking support, then real quick pull him out to get some Gatorade, toss Gallon in, and hope you catch the defense still in a more run stopping alignment.  

If nothing else, being the shift little guy that blocks/has to work hard to fall through the cracks and get open is tiring.  So rotating them for Gatorade breaks on longer drives may look attractive.  

Mr. Yost

September 22nd, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^

Actually it's 7 players...I put nickelback in italics because it's not a "starting" position on a depth chart and would give us 12 guys on the field.

I was simply stating that Avery, IMO, is our best slot CB/nickelback (even over Woolfolk). We seem to like to have CB/FS players like Thomas Gordon and Raymon Taylor there, but neither has done much from that position. Avery played very well in last year's defense from that spot. Gordon has played very well from the FS spot.

However, you can't just say Woolfolk and Floyd at CB, because Floyd can't cover anyone man-to-man and he's an awful tackler...very good in zone. Decent in press coverage. So when we blitz and play man on the outside...it's got to be Woolfolk and Avery outside.

Mr. Yost

September 22nd, 2011 at 8:37 PM ^

Because Brandon Moore has been...well, NOT GOOD.

 

He got knocked back by EMU, EASTERN MICHIGAN, time and time again. He hasn't done anything all year if you've watched him.

 

Watson is the #3 TE, so he'd move up.

 

Hopefully that answers your question.

ryanfourmayor

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:42 AM ^

The only thing im disliking is the fact that if its 3 and 4 or less that denard runs it about 90% of the time. Im glad it works most of the time but i wish we had other plays for that aswell.

PurpleStuff

September 22nd, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^

I'm okay with leaning on Denard in that kind of situation where we need a first down to keep the chains moving, but I really would like to see us not start every game with a designed run by him.  Hopefully we can start getting the backs involved earlier in games, get them some carries, and get a better sense of who our best option is at that spot.  As it stands, Shaw/Fitz/Smith have a higher ypc than Denard (7.6 to 7.0) and have scored twice as many TDs (despite getting 9 fewer carries).  Add in Hopkins' carries and the ypc are identical (7.0). 

For all the offseason talk about protecting Denard, the only way to do that is to not call his number so often.  With the production the backs are putting up, there doesn't seem to be any harm in having Denard hand the ball off a little more.

 

maizenblue92

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:42 AM ^

Cam Gordon is the starter at SLB when he returns and has starter's stamina. Jake Ryan has made some plays but you can see his inexperience and flaws when he has to play every down. To put it bluntly he does not keep contain well and is only most effective slanting upfield into the backfield or rushing the passer. When he has assignments like contain or coverage you see the flaws.

msoccer10

September 22nd, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^

I think much like you have with Schofield as the sixth o-lineman I would think our best d line rotation would use Roh, Black, RVB, WC, and Martin and just rotate those guys.

 

Mr. Yost

September 22nd, 2011 at 8:50 PM ^

I agree, but you need to mix in more players so guys aren't getting worn down. Campbell especially can't play that many plays.

Here's what I would do:

Black - Martin - Campbell - RVB

 

Passing Situations:
Roh - Martin - RVB - Black

Running Situations:
RVB - Martin - Campbell - Heininger

Utility DL:
Will Heininger

I'd use Heininger like Schofield to spot rest people, but he'd ALWAYS play SDE:
---Go in for a couple plays for Campbell, move RVB inside and let Heininger play SDE.
---Go in for RVB from time to time
---Go in for Martin, move Campbell to NG, RVB to DT and Heininger to SDE.

We really need Q and Ash to develop. It's too early to think about next year. But Q and Ash and hell Pipkins (and hopefully O'Brien) are really going to have to develop so someone can replace Martin. But that's next year...we still have 11 more games to win.



 

PurpleStuff

September 22nd, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^

The young guys on defense who I expected to improve and who needed to improve have done so.  Gordon, Avery, Demens, BWC, Roh, etc. have all looked solid.  Woolfolk looks solid/healthy/healed when he isn't getting kicked in the grill.  We've discovered some new young guys who look to have real potential like Black, Hawthorne, and Ryan.  Kovacs has been incredible.  I can't wait to see what Cam can do in this defense with an opportunity to blitz the QB and drop into coverage and make plays.

All in all the defense has made a huge leap.  They are making tackles, they aren't giving up big plays, and they are forcing turnovers.  When they give up a nice gain, it is basically always because the other team has done something to fool our guys or because we are in a defense that makes what they are doing extremely easy (or because Michael Floyd is awesome at football).  Nobody is getting pushed around or getting smoked in coverage. 

The offense still has a ton of playmakers and a system to create tons of big plays.  Denard has to relax and play a little better (which I don't doubt he will) and I'd like to see more focus on the running backs early in games, but they are going to be just fine.  This is a really good team, but Michigan fans are just too gun shy to believe it at this point.

 

StephenRKass

September 22nd, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^

I think that our schedule is extremely kind this year. With the injuries on the OL at MSU, we have a huge luxury. Look at the following five games:

  • San Diego
  • Minnesota
  • Northwestern
  • MSU
  • Purdue

I would not suggest that these are gimmes and guaranteed wins. However, I don't see ANY of these having strong huge road graders on the OL & DL. This means two critical things which are hugely beneficial to Michigan:

  1. Defense:  we have TIME for our DL & LB corps to develop and learn. Cam Gordon can get up to speed, BWC can be coached and used and disciplined, we can play with how to best use Roh & Black at the same time, We can play fairly vanilla, use games to get backups PT, use games to drill on HOW to play.
  2. We are less likely to see Denard (& the RB's) get dinged badly. This may give time for Denard to work on footwork, to switch between Power & Spread, to get the zone read completely down. It may also give time for Devin Gardner to get PT. We can get a good look at Rawls. And we can keep the offensive play calls fairly vanilla, not tipping our hand on trick plays and new formations until they are needed in the tough November games.

We could actually end up 8 - 0 through Purdue, and be at close to full strength. Being healthy, drilling in what we do, building on success, and having several surprises on both defense and offense waiting for November could actually be enough for us to steal a game with Nebraska, Penn State, and most importantly, vs. Ohio. IIRC, Bo focused on Ohio in practice through the entire season in 1969, and Woody and Ohio didn't know what hit them.  I so want for Michigan to be prepared, and to unleash the dogs of Hell when Ohio comes into town November 26.

funkywolve

September 22nd, 2011 at 1:55 PM ^

Schedule is eerily similiar to the last couple years in that it affords UM a chance to get off to a good start before they start playing the heavyweights.  The big difference this year though, imo, is I think the defense will continue to improve.  As mentioned in the OP some of the young guys are really starting to step up.  Hopefully the combination of everyone getting better and getting more comfortable with the schemes will bode well.  The one area of concern is going up against the big beef eating olines, which if MSU's oline remains a mess, probably won't start until game 9.  Hopefully by then BWC and the coaches will have that issue addressed.

PurpleStuff

September 22nd, 2011 at 3:12 PM ^

Those "heavyweights" don't really exist this year.  State, OSU, and Iowa are nowhere near what they were a year ago.  We miss Wisconsin and Penn State.

And I think it is pretty debatable how good Nebraska is outside the friendly confines of the Big 12 North. 

Beavis

September 22nd, 2011 at 1:24 PM ^

Excellent work here, IMO.  Nice formatting and good detail.  Mostly agree with your 2-deep as well.  

The offense is pretty much a known at this point.  Denard wins us games by himself.  No RB will step up and be "the guy", but Vincent Smith looks MUCH better this year (health is the reason I am sure).  WRs - you can replace where most people thought Odoms would be this year with Gallon (Gallon is my "most improved" player by a long shot for this team).

Defense is a little tricky.  Sometimes I feel like it's Mattison not wanting to show all of his cards before B10 season, and other times I just think we've been lucky (lots of yards given up, but much better TO margin than during RR era).  Our five best DL are Martin, Black, RVB, Roh, and BWC (in that order) and I fully expect BWC to be playing 90% of the snaps when we start playing good teams in the B10.  LBs are up and down, but Cam will be back soon enough and that should help things out (really excited about the futures of Jake Ryan and Brennan Beyer).  DBs are better than I expected, with Kovacs leading the charge.  

Tater

September 22nd, 2011 at 2:11 PM ^

Like:

3-0.

Borges mixing spread elements into hybrid offense.

Mattison taking full advantage of players he has to put out a defense that isn't nearly as bad as people thought it would be.

Hoke as leader/delegator/face of program.  

Sparty and Brutus have losses.

Dislike:

Micromanagement and criticism by some fans when team has 3-0 record.  Note that I said "fans;" not bloggers, radio people, or reporters who cover the team.  It is their job to analyze, good and bad.  There is a difference between analysis and bitching.  

It becomes a meloncholy melange:

Denard passes too much.  Denard doesn't pass enough.  Denard runs too much.  Denard doesn't run enough.  Running backs should carry more of the load.  Running backs don't deserve any carries because they aren't performing.  Etc ad nauseum...