3-3-5 Early Returns

Submitted by Michael on

It has been alluded to that UM will be running at least some 3-3-5 this season. Some have gone so far as to argue that this will be our new base defense: http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/michigan-hoping-3-3-5-defens…

I'm curious, and would like to solicit the opinion of those more informed than me, what this alignment would look like in terms of personnel. I'm particularly concerned with the defensive line - are we still going to be able to get Big Will and Martin on the field at the same time?

Insight is much appreciated.

hisurfernmi

March 23rd, 2010 at 7:21 PM ^

Considering Roh is typically considered a LB in most publications you can assume Martin, Campbell, and Van Bergen will be the down lineman with Roh standing up or down depending on the situation.

Beavis

March 23rd, 2010 at 7:29 PM ^

Would it be legal to make an MGoShirt with some variable of Roh, LT, and Derrick Thomas on it? I would buy that.

Some words on it too, incorporating how they're all badasses but nothing too "gay" sounding.

aaamichfan

March 23rd, 2010 at 7:23 PM ^

I'm not much of an expert on the 3-3-5, but I will say it's refreshing to read a Dave Birkett article without him mentioning the NCAA investigation.....

True Blue In Ohio

March 23rd, 2010 at 7:31 PM ^

I have to trust the coach's judgement on this one. They know what they got and how to play to the strength on what they have. I like the possibility of Mike Martin and Will Cambell being out there at the same time. Teams may have to use four lineman to block those dudes. Go Blue!

itself

March 23rd, 2010 at 7:46 PM ^

so did birkett actually get anyone on the record SAYING we're running a 3-3-5? RR seemed to dodge answering any questions about formations. I know we're assuming and speculating but birkett's job is to report. so uh, yeah.

BiSB

March 23rd, 2010 at 7:47 PM ^

In the 3-3-5, is the "Spinner" one of the DBs?

If not, I worry about both the size of the team on the field and our lack of depth in the ranks of "pure" DB's.

jvp123

March 23rd, 2010 at 7:54 PM ^

it will be the base defense. Martin, Campbell, and RVB will be on the line. Roh-Ezeh-Mouton will be your linebackers (Roh will be standing up unless they move to a 4 man front with this package). Williams and Kovacs are your run-stopping (box) safeties known as Bandit and Spur, respectively. JT Floyd and Woolfolk are your corners and Vlad will be your deep safety. I think with this setup we are guaranteed to be big enough to stop Wisky when Roh puts his hand down but versatile enough so that an Iowan TE shall be pwned when he tries to beat us on the seam.

Tamburlaine

March 23rd, 2010 at 8:02 PM ^

The guys behind the paywall I read (rhymes with "Grout") are pretty much saying it's gonna be a 3-3-5. However, they are also saying you can consider Roh as basically a fourth lineman.

Awww yeah. Roh will be gittin' up in some grilles this year.

Magnus

March 23rd, 2010 at 8:22 PM ^

Obes, what are your thoughts on the following:

Athletically, we have about four guys (Woolfolk, Emilien, Turner, Dorsey) who should be on the field in the fall, and a few others who are vying for playing time (Kovacs, Williams, Christian, Floyd). Assuming there are five defensive backs, how do you get the best guys on the field?

MGoObes

March 23rd, 2010 at 9:08 PM ^

that woolfolk is a corner and turner is a safety. with those two spots filled (assuming a healthy vlad emilien) dorsey plays the other corner spot and emilien plays safety. that 5th position will either be williams or kovacs. of course in situations where we're in the 3-3-5 you could have both kovacs and williams in the game. on top of everything i've just written, apparently cam gordon is gonna be a beast at safety.
of course this is just my opinion

Magnus

March 23rd, 2010 at 9:10 PM ^

On a somewhat unrelated note, apparently now that Emilien went down, they've been getting Hawthorne some reps at deep safety. He's the new James Rogers - they're just going to put him at every single position for depth.

Tamburlaine

March 23rd, 2010 at 10:46 PM ^

I don't know how old you are--but listen here (as it were) for just a moment to the rant of an old guy.

I am always skeptical of "We don't have no scheme. We just do what we do."

I don't believe you just go out and get athletes and then toss them out there. This situation calls for this, that situation calls for that.

Those were the words of Shafer, and those are the words of Robinson (in, IMO, a nutshell).

I think you have a scheme, a plan, something you teach, teach, teach, and the players know what you are teaching, how and where it applies, and thus, they have a better understanding of what they're supposed to do. Especially at this level where you have limited hours to work with them.

What do you say? I'm leary of this whole Super Secret Hybrid stuff.

jvp123

March 23rd, 2010 at 8:18 PM ^

wants to ease in his kids that have little to no in-game experience. I think that on obvious passing downs Kovacs is out and Turner is in. I think RR cares more about depth and development right now. If Vlad struggles or is injured and Turner is developing well, he could put Turner at corner and Woolfolk back at deep safety. I think this is more about putting a 19 year old on an island by himself right now.

Magnus

March 23rd, 2010 at 8:11 PM ^

Since Martin is out this spring, Banks seems to be the one drawing into the lineup at right defensive end. I would guess that he will be replaced by Martin come fall in the 3-3-5 package, but I still think this will look more like a 4-2-5 come September.

We did run some 3-3-5 stack type stuff last year with Roh playing a bit of a hybrid pass rusher/outside linebacker. Sometimes you'd see him poking his nose into the bubble between the NT and the DT.

Let me put it this way: I doubt Rodriguez will make the same mistake of turning another 4-3 guy (cough Shafer cough) into a 3-3-5 stack guy.

ken725

March 23rd, 2010 at 9:29 PM ^

So if we do play a 3-3-5 with Roh being used as a down lineman most of the time, then it would just be closer to what Magnus has written in his blog.

Although it is fun to speculate and read about defensive schemes I think some of us, myself included, are putting too much emphasis on base schemes. Hopefully GERG is a type of coach who can adapt to the different styles of offenses out there.

spacemanspiff231

March 24th, 2010 at 12:55 PM ^

I'm sure that he will play with his hand in the dirt quite a bit, but from what I've read behind the paywall on Rivals is that to get the most out of him with rushing the QB, he will have to be standing up as a linebacker. The whole point of running the 3-3-5, or rather, how it is most effective, is that defenses never know where the blitz is coming from. For that to work, Roh can't be up on the line of scrimmage.

colin

March 23rd, 2010 at 9:23 PM ^

still be fairly 4-2 looking, but with Roh given the freedom to line up wherever, probably often to the TE. we did this against OSU a decent amount. i really doubt they're going to waste his talents covering the flats much, but i think he'll be a good matchup down the seam and rushing the passer. last year we ended up using a lot of a 4-2-5 look that went 4-4-3 as long as there was a TE. we couldn't give any of our LBs two gaps and expect them to cover them. that will likely still be the case.

this year, we may try and use Will as a two-gap head up nose (pretty sure they always had Martin on a shade) to control the A gaps. that leaves the LBs and DEs will take Bs and Cs and Roh and MW/JK the Ds. for most centers, WC's just going to be too much too move. they're all giving up 40 lbs.

Irish

March 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 PM ^

Do I have this right, basically?
Scenario 1A: 3-3-5 "base"
Scenario 1B: Roh is told to pass rush and it becomes a 4-2-5
Scenario 1C: The new stevie brown is told to not drop into pass coverage and its a 3-4
Scenario 1D: Roh pass rushes and the new brown doesn't drop into the secondary and its a 4-4

Scenario 2-X: Goal line, run stop, etc etc

or is it more complicated than this?