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2013 QB Situation

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:32 AM
#1
sheepdog
sheepdog's picture
Joined: 06/15/2011
MGoPoints: 804
2013 QB Situation

I read this article this morning talking about our QB situation for the 2012 season.  They are obviously trying to create buzz by the title, but the article basically says there is no QB controversy.  I agree.

Moving on to 2013 when we basically have:

Devin Gardner - 2 years elg. left (pending probable RS)

Shane Morris - True Freshman

Russell Bellomy -3 year elg. left (RS Sophomore)

What are the chances we see Sugar Shane starting in the 2013 season?  If not at the beginning, then at least by the end?  Obviously, this depends on the development of Devin this year, and how good Shane is when he hits campus.  But, I think pretty good.

The coaches are always saying the best 11 will play.  You also tend to see young QBs come in and play early when the system is changing or there is no real good upperclassmen options.  Example would be Chad Henne is 2004 or Braxton Miller last year.

So, if Shane can come in and compete better or as well as Devin, and Shane is presumably the future of the program, Shane should play - there is so much upside to this decision.  But, what happens to Devin?  Obviously, the kid is a freak athlete and can contribue, but if not at QB, where?

Just interested in the board's thoughts on a slow day awaiting Alex Kozan's decision.

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:34 AM | i, for one, love all (Score:2 Funny)
ish
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 7683

i, for one, love all quatergacks.

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:37 AM | yeah they are game (Score:1 Normal)
sheepdog
sheepdog's picture
Joined: 06/15/2011
MGoPoints: 804

yeah they are game changers. 

/fixed

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:36 AM | I think you overestimate how (Score:5 Normal)
unWavering
unWavering's picture
Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 1765

I think you overestimate how good Shane will be when he sets foot on campus.  Devin will have had 2 years in the current system and 3 years of practice at the collegiate level.  Remember, he was just as highly rated as Shane likely will be coming out of high school.  Gardner also has the right skillset to run more of a West Coast offense than we are currently running.  I'll put money on Gardner being the starter until he leaves/graduates.

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:38 AM | People put way too much stock (Score:5 Normal)
thisiscmd
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Joined: 12/01/2010
MGoPoints: 731

People put way too much stock into how Devin looked at QB when he was thrown in for random plays last season. Dude is supposed to be pretty damn good and don't underestimate Bellomy either. I don't see a good reason to start a true freshman under those circumstances.

That's just like your opinion man...

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:42 AM | I would much rather see Shane (Score:1)
tjl7386
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Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 318

I would much rather see Shane RS in his freshman year. I think that if he is thrown the starting role we may be in some trouble as far as QB depth because to me that would mean that both Devin and Bellomy couldn't step up or they were injured. There is no doubt Shane is a great talent but a RS year can only help his delvelopment into a college star.

-Those who stay will be champions-

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:57 AM | I'm not for sure, but if (Score:-1 Overrated)
LIZARD4141
Joined: 12/09/2011
MGoPoints: 121

I'm not for sure, but if Morris gets a RS wouldn't that only leave Devin and Bellomy for QB?  You need at least three capable QB's on your team.  All it takes is a freak injury or a lack of judgement and your starting QB is out.  That could happen even before the first game in 2013.  I wonder if Morris plans on enrolling early?

GO BLUE!

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:05 AM | If you end up needing him OK, (Score:4 Normal)
Carcajous
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Joined: 07/05/2009
MGoPoints: 1577

If you end up needing him OK, that doesn't change the red shirt possibility.  You don't have to designate people as red shrits before hand.  He can be the third string guy and if he never plays he was red shirted.

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February 6th, 2012 at 12:34 PM | Nuh-uh, in video games you (Score:2)
Colt McBaby Jesus
Colt McBaby Jesus's picture
Joined: 01/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1200

Nuh-uh, in video games you designate at the beginning of the year and then can never use them. I think we can all agree the video games perfectly represent real college football in every way. So, I'm pretty sure you are wrong.

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February 6th, 2012 at 1:14 PM | Actually, that's where I thought the OP was getting his info (Score:2)
M-Wolverine
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Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38763

But can't you still put them in, even in the video games? If you try to put a redshirted guy in, don't you get the warning "This player has been redshirted and if you make this move he will lose his redshirt" or something to that effect?  

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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February 6th, 2012 at 2:53 PM | And you can even do the (Score:3 Normal)
BraveWolverine730
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Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2743

And you can even do the real-life redshirting method in the game. I had a year where I just used my K for punting and kicking since he was so much better at both. At the end of the year I had never put my punter in so he got an automatic redshirt.  Only thing is that for most positions, the computer will throw in the 3rd string at some point and with only 70 slots, more than likely everyone will be rotated throug. 

" I want to win Big 10 titles. Multiply. Consecutively. I just made that word up (multiply). I'm like that. I'm good at Scrabble."

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:05 AM | If that was they case then (Score:2 Normal)
tjl7386
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Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 318

If that was they case then they can burn Shane's RS.

-Those who stay will be champions-

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:05 AM | You don't hand out a redshirt (Score:2)
unWavering
unWavering's picture
Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 1765

You don't hand out a redshirt at the beginning of the year.  The coaches can decide to redshirt Shane, but in the unlikely event that the need arises, he can still play and burn the redshirt.  We will in effect have 3 capable QB's on the team with the intent of redshirting Shane.

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:44 AM | Henne got the start in the (Score:4 Normal)
WalMartWolverine
Joined: 04/21/2009
MGoPoints: 587

Henne got the start in the first game of his freshman season solely because of an injury to Matt Guiterrez. Didn't have anything to do with a changing system or lack of options in classes ahead of him.

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:52 AM | Guiterrez got blown up in (Score:2 Informative)
The Shredder
The Shredder's picture
Joined: 07/01/2009
MGoPoints: 3721

Guiterrez got blown up in practice by Woods I believe which lead to him being buried on the bench by Carr for the rest of his UM career.

http://midnightmaize.blogspot.com/

Latest MM Post(3-22-13) DENARD ROBINSON SIGNED MY SONIC!

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:12 AM | I always wondered about that. (Score:1)
Huntington Wolverine
Joined: 10/26/2009
MGoPoints: 2375

I always wondered about that. Thanks.

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:16 AM | Informative, but wrong (Score:2 Normal)
Maize and Blue ...
Maize and Blue 4 Life's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 3516

Guiterrez was slated to start and got injured right before the season,  Henne ended up starting and Guiterrez transferred out.

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February 6th, 2012 at 3:13 PM | This is correct (Score:1)
D.C. Dave
Joined: 09/02/2010
MGoPoints: 322

If Gutierrez had not injured his throwing shoulder in preseason practice, he would've started ahead of Henne.

My prediction is that Gardner starts for two years -- the second one is contingent on him getting the medical redshirt for 2010 -- that Morris plays little if at all his first year, and then gets more time his second year. I don't see any way that Morris arrives on campus ahead of Gardner, who is a very talented player.

I also could even Morris taking a redshirt year if he is not needed his first season, which would mean Bellomy is the backup and that Bellomy has developed into a pretty good player, which is how the coaches view him. Borges keeps saying everyone is going to be surprised when they see Bellomy play, and I don't think that is false praise.

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February 6th, 2012 at 3:14 PM | I think he was referring to (Score:1)
aenima0311
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Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 538

I think he was referring to Woods being burried on the depth chart.

Pronounced Ahh-Neh-Muh

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:46 AM | I hope I never have to see a (Score:5 Normal)
brandanomano
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Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 4400

I hope I never have to see a true freshman qb start for Michigan again, no matter how good he is.

Special Teams means special times!

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February 6th, 2012 at 12:48 PM | That Rose Bowl season (Score:1)
coastal blue
Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

must have been rough on you. 

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:47 AM | I personally would like to (Score:1 Normal)
beenplumb
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Joined: 10/15/2010
MGoPoints: 847

I personally would like to see Shane take a redshirt year when he gets on campus to raise his skill set to the college level, and also to put an extra year between him and Gardner.

Then again, if Gardner doesn't step up, and I mean really step up, then the coaches may not have a choice but to burn Shane's redshirt if only to light a fire under Gardner and make him compete. My mind keeps going back to some of the more poor decisions Gardner has made in his (admittedly) limited playing time last season.

I don't think Bellomy will ever be a serious contender for the starting job. Nothing against him, he seems like a stand up kid, but there's too much of a talent disparity there.

@beenplumb

procsqlrunning.tumblr.com

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:03 AM | You'd be surprised... coaches (Score:3 Normal)
gremlin
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Joined: 01/13/2009
MGoPoints: 602

You'd be surprised... coaches have been singing Bellomy's praises. 

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:16 AM | Huh? (Score:4 Normal)
Blue in Yarmouth
Blue in Yarmouth's picture
Joined: 02/18/2009
MGoPoints: 2327

Are you basing this on anything other than the fact that he was rated a 3* coming out of high school? I mean, where have you seen him play to get this impression of his talents? I ask because everything I have heard from the coaches in their interviews have been very positive where Bellomy is concerned. 

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:26 AM | You raise a fair point (Score:-1 Overrated)
beenplumb
beenplumb's picture
Joined: 10/15/2010
MGoPoints: 847

I hope he proves me wrong. I just don't think it's going to happen as a three star, competing against two 5 stars with pretty substantial hype.

Of course, the recruiting services have been wrong before. We'll see.

@beenplumb

procsqlrunning.tumblr.com

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:46 AM | I'm actually excited to see (Score:2)
brandanomano
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Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 4400

I'm actually excited to see what he can do. For those who have never seen film of him, he's like a taller version of Tate. I'm assuming he isn't quite the headcase though.

Special Teams means special times!

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February 6th, 2012 at 2:49 PM | I think that's a fair (Score:1)
bacon1431
bacon1431's picture
Joined: 07/26/2008
MGoPoints: 3278

I think that's a fair comparison. Probably not quite as fast as Tate, but also has a stronger arm. But not an elite arm. People forget that Bellomy is going to have 2 years in the system when Shane gets here. And when the starting spot is open after Devin leaves, he'll have 4 years to Shane's two (or 3&1 if Devin doesn't get his RS). That can be tough to overcome no matter how talented you are.

For a' that, an' a' that, 
Our toils obscure an' a' that, 
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The man's the gowd for a' that. 
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February 6th, 2012 at 10:51 AM | I don't (Score:1)
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2783

think there is any question that Gardner is being groomed to be the starter.  BTW, how long does it take to determine if he is going to get that redshirt.  This has been the million dollar question for like a year and a half.  Who is deciding on that, and what is their time table for god sake.

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:40 AM | Gardner is technically (Score:2 Informative)
Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 528

Gardner is technically eligible for a medical redshirt because he didn't play in more than four of the first six games of the 2010 season...but, the NCAA will not decide until Gardner completes his fourth year of eligibility.  It is likely but not promised.  He won't know until at least the end of 2012 season.

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:52 AM | If Morris is starting in 2013 (Score:4 Normal)
biakabutuka exp...
biakabutuka explosion 3000's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 2165

If Morris is starting in 2013 that's either a terrible indicator for 5th year senior Gardner, or a phenomenal indicator for Morris.

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:20 AM | Gardner would be a fourth (Score:4 Normal)
Lancer
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Joined: 08/18/2010
MGoPoints: 755

Gardner would be a fourth year junior or a true senior in 2013. 

Looking for BTTYS Nike sb Michigan Dunk Highs size 14, hit me up. 

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:05 AM | Gardner would be a RS senior (Score:3 Informative)
oriental andrew
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 4538

Gardner would be a RS senior in 2014.

For my privacy, my new username is "non-Oriental non-Andrew"
 

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February 6th, 2012 at 2:51 PM | Because no coach ever goes (Score:5 Normal)
BraveWolverine730
BraveWolverine730's picture
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2743

Because no coach ever goes into a season saying "Boy I really would like to start a true freshemen at QB. Especially for road games at MSU, Iowa, etc"(don't remember who else rotates on our schedule then). So for Morris to start over a guy who has had 4 years experience advantage and 3 in the same system and was ranked about the same in the recruiting rankings would indicate some dramatic shift. 

" I want to win Big 10 titles. Multiply. Consecutively. I just made that word up (multiply). I'm like that. I'm good at Scrabble."

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:52 AM | When mallet hit the campus (Score:2 Normal)
FeelinBlue
Joined: 03/16/2011
MGoPoints: 89

When mallet hit the campus there wasnt a legitamate proven and experienced backup. And thnks to henne's injury, mallet saw a quite amount of playing time.
But i think since we have devin whos got experience both on the field and during practice and a fairly underated backup russell, sugar shane should be redshirted and become a great one like andrew luck and sam bradford.

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:54 AM | I'm not alone in thinking (Score:3 Normal)
BradP
Joined: 10/17/2010
MGoPoints: 259

I'm not alone in thinking that Gardner looked like a very gifted player who was overwhelmed by his situation at times when he came in last year, am I?

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:43 AM | You really can't expect to (Score:1)
Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 528

You really can't expect to come in off the bench and make a significant impact in 3-5 plays per game...especially when most of those plays were runs.

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February 6th, 2012 at 12:44 PM | You're basing that on an (Score:1)
mackbru
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 3066

You're basing that on an unfairly small sample. Basically no QBs thrive when they're just randomly plunked in for a handful of plays here and there -- especially QBs who haven't otherwise seen the field. They need reps. They need confidence and rhythm. Gardner will be fine. And, by the way, he did show flashes of talent when he got the chance. Remember Denard when he saw spot duty during his freshman year? He ran well. But he was frequently confused and INT-prone. And he got much more time than Gardner has.

 

 

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February 6th, 2012 at 10:56 AM | DG (Score:2 Normal)
UAUM
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Joined: 11/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1017

I'd rather see Shane redshirt so that he has 4 years to be awesome instead of 1 year to learn how to be awesome and then only 3 years of pure awesomeness.

Plus DG has a nice arm and needs to get the opportunity to have some consistency instead of being thrown in sporadically when Denard goes down.

 

Your MGoLawyer in Columbus.  Unabashedly representing the interests of Wolverines all across enemy territory and now back hoMe.

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:02 AM | In 2013 I would put a good (Score:1)
gremlin
gremlin's picture
Joined: 01/13/2009
MGoPoints: 602

In 2013 I would put a good amount of money on Shane redshirting.  Even if Garder doesn't meet the hype, I would think Bellomy would start before him at that point... coaches have been singing his praises.

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:03 AM | easy with it (Score:1)
StraightDave
StraightDave's picture
Joined: 12/27/2009
MGoPoints: 816

We should probably see them play a complete game before we give all three the heisman.  DG looked decent, not great, when he was in for DR.  Bellomy has yet to take a snap.  And Morris has to worry about Brother Rice before he wins the Heisman as a true freshman at UM.   Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if Bellomy ends up being a better QB than DG. 

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:20 AM | Our schedule is such that (Score:2)
turd ferguson
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Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 2918

Our schedule is such that it's much softer in odd years right now than even years (OSU, ND, and Nebraska at home in the odd years).  Throwing a true freshman QB to the wolves when we have an experienced, mature, talented Devin Gardner would be a waste of what should be a very good season.

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:25 AM | I am not a stat guy (Score:0 Normal)
StephenRKass
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Joined: 07/15/2008
MGoPoints: 4202

And I don't need anyone to say LMGTFY. But I have seen stats in the past that indicate you are almost always at a huge disadvantage with a Freshman quarterback. The sheer number of plays to memorize, the speed of the game, the ability to make reads correctly, etc., etc., etc., make it extremely difficult for a Freshman quarterback to succeed.

There are a number of mitigating factors that allow a Freshman QB to start.

  • Clear talent difference between upper classman and freshman, to the advantage of the freshman. Braxton at Ohio replacing Bauserman last year is an example of this. When all you have on the roster are journeymen QB's, well, there is room for a freshman to start.
  • Injured starter leaving no choice. Gutierrez injury opening door for Henne.
  • Freshman starting school early and participating in Spring Ball. The coaches put so much emphasis on Spring, that it would be very difficult without this.
  • The skill and ability of the team surrounding you. Having a solid experienced offensive line, and a couple of very good receivers and a good running back, make it a lot easier for a freshman QB to start.
  • The type of offense being run. The more complicated the offense, the more plays in the book, the more quick decision making required, the harder it is for a freshman QB to begin. If you are running a simple offense largely predicated on a running game, well, it is a bit easier for a QB. Somehow, I think that Borges is not going to go primarily to a run first offense.
  • The coach's mentality. Specifically, some coaches (i.e., Carr) are much more loyal to upper classmen, and reward them for their years of service. Personally, I don't think this is a bad thing. If every incoming QB knows that a particular team changes QB's every four years, and that you don't "really" have a fair chance to compete if you're not on that cycle, well, that would seriously damage your recruiting.
  • The time of the season. A freshman may not begin in September (when the experience differential is greater, and the familiarity with the playbook.) However, after two to three months of practice, it may become clear that the upper classman isn't getting it done, and that the freshman is tearing it up in practice. The freshman may even have proven himself on the field as a backup in that time. If that is the case, I could see a freshman QB supplanting the upperclassman somewhere around the 7th or 8th game of the season.

Looking at the above factors, I don't see Morris clearly being better than Gardner. I sure hope that Gardner doesn't get injured, opening the way for Morris. I don't know when Morris is projected to enroll in classes. I can't yet predict the quality of the team surrounding the QB in 2013. I am confident that Borges is going to run a complicated offense, making it close to impossible for most Freshmen QB's to succeed in his system. I believe that Hoke is more old school than some others out there, and that for the sake of camaraderie, esprit de corps, he would prefer to start an experienced upper classman. What I'm saying here is that if Gardner and Morris are essentially equal, you have to reward Gardner.

For all these reasons, I really would prefer Morris to redshirt, and for Gardner to start, in 2013.

"It does not matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up." Vince Lombardi

 

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:32 AM | Do the best eleven really start? (Score:1 Normal)
StephenRKass
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Joined: 07/15/2008
MGoPoints: 4202

I think that it is somewhat true that the best eleven are going to start. However, I think that if there is a "tie," or if it is close, the coaches will reward the upperclassman. We saw this during the year with Woolfolk. There were times I'm not sure he was the "best," but he was rewarded for his hard work, even though he was a step slow. Obviously, at some positions, you shuttle guys in and out to give the starters a breather and keep them fresh throughout the game (think:  defensive line and LB corps. Also, sometimes RB.) This is less true at QB, but I think coaches find wiggle room with "the best eleven." They have their favorites too, and can sometimes see things in a way that there isn't full agreement. I guess that's why their coaches and I'm not.

"It does not matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up." Vince Lombardi

 

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:33 AM | Desperation (Score:2)
detrocks
Joined: 08/18/2010
MGoPoints: 731

I would think for any team that expects to compete for conference and national championships-- which I think we would hope to be doing in 2013-- starting a true FR at QB does not seem to be a recipe for success.   That's not a knock against Shane, who will hopefully be a great one, but I'm hoping that DG is poised for a breakout season and that Bellomy is ready to be the backup and compete with Shane after DG leaves.

 

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:43 AM | There's always a frosh who's . . . . . (Score:5 Normal)
sports fan
Joined: 07/19/2009
MGoPoints: 31

I remember the anguish a year or two ago when everyone was castigating RichRod for playing Gardner as a freshman and possibly ruining a redshirt year.  "We have to save that redshirt so we have Gardner for an extra year."  Now some are wanting to push him out of the way to make room for another frosh.  You know what, there will be another hotshot quarterback we recruit in another year or two whom everyone thinks should start as a frosh.  Funny how what goes around comes around.  I  am content to  let the coaches recruit and play the players they think give UM the best chances to win.  Go Blue.

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:47 AM | Why not put both in to start? (Score:2)
Space Coyote
Space Coyote's picture
Joined: 06/18/2009
MGoPoints: 4364

Think of all the possibilities with having DG and Sugar Shane in there lined up next to each other!!!1!  Maybe get Russell Bellomy and his cousin by a different spelling Ronald Bellamy in there too!

Also: Gonzales and Bass.

\aw hell, here we go again...

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:50 AM | The douche formation?  (Score:2 Normal)
Allin4Blue
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 528

The douche formation?  "Gardner goes in motion, Morris fakes the hand off, Michigan loses 5 yards" to put them into an obvious passing situation!

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February 6th, 2012 at 11:53 AM | If we start Shane in 2013, we (Score:2)
JClay
JClay's picture
Joined: 09/14/2010
MGoPoints: 2091

If we start Shane in 2013, we probably are pretty good at QB from 2013-2015, and after that, who knows. If we star Gardner and redhsirt Shane, we probably are pretty good at QB from 2013-16 AT LEAST (13&14 with Gardner, 15 and 16 with Morris, and this is still assuming Morris would leave after his Junior year). Why would we needlessly run down the eligability of one of the best players on our roster when his "replacement" (if we're calling Gardner, the #1 ranked dual-threat QB in the country a replacement) is worst case scenario going to be 95% as effective?

"Here we are at Ohio Stadium, in front of 10,000 alumni and 74,000 truck drivers." - Bob Ufer

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February 6th, 2012 at 12:01 PM | I think Devin Gardner will (Score:0 Flamebait)
KingGeorge17
Joined: 02/02/2011
MGoPoints: 124

I think Devin Gardner will play no matter how good Shane is.  

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February 6th, 2012 at 12:22 PM | If I was Devin Gardner I (Score:5 Normal)
JimLahey
JimLahey's picture
Joined: 01/18/2011
MGoPoints: 2369

If I was Devin Gardner I would be so insulted sometimes by reading this site. Typical recruiting-mania attitude, as soon as one class ends we forget about them and focus on the current batch of new 18 year olds.

Gardner is a 5 star QB with amazing size and will have 3 years in the system. If Shane Morris starts week 1 in 2013 (unless due to Devin injury) I promise I will eat a lemon on video for mgoblog.

I've decided to lay off the food for a while, and go on the booze.

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February 6th, 2012 at 12:40 PM | We'll probably hold you to (Score:2 Normal)
aiglick
Joined: 11/27/2010
MGoPoints: 1442

We'll probably hold you to that though long after the game as we'll be having terrible memories of the start of the 2007 campaign.

I do think you're right though.

Here's hoping for a bright future. This team does try hard and I will continue to support them.

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