1:40 to Kickoff on Saturday - Two Pictures, One Problem and One Proposed Solution

Submitted by mGrowOld on

 

These two pictures were taken yesterday approximately 1:40 away from kickoff.  The top picture is the alumni section and the bottom picture is the corresponding student section.  One is full and one is approximately 25% empty.   A lot of people both here on the board and in the stands are asking why this is happening and looking for answers on how to stop it.

Student attendance is a problem that is new (to Michigan anyways) and using positive reinforcement (The Hail program) didn't work.  Negative reinforcement (General Admission) appears to also not be working if the goal is to get students to the games on time.  And make no mistake from my perspective - I WANT the students to show up.  They are loud, they are enthusiastic and they make the entire gameday environment better when they are there in force.  But, I'd rather they were there from the beginning of the game and not midway into the first quarter to make their presence felt.

Here is my proposal on how to remedy this rather new student attendance issue:

  1. Discontinue general admission.  Students have always had seating assigned based on their class and this should not change.  Freshman should get the least desirable seats and Seniors should be rewarded.  It was that way when my dad was there in the late 40's, for me in the late 70's and it should be that way now.  General admission, in my opinion, is a mistake and should be ended.
  2. Stop discounting the price of student tickets.  Students should pay the same rate as the rest of us for the seat and if that is too expensive for the student (or their parents) to afford then they always have the option of not purchasing them. This should weed out those who buy them without truly wanting to use them.
  3. Allow students unfettered rights to buy and sell tickets to anyone that wants to buy them.  The free market will then determine if those seats have value and for how much.  And if they are going to pay the same price as me to buy the seat,  they should have the same freedom I do to sell that ticket for whatever the market says it's worth and to anyone who wishes to buy it.  I sold two extra seats to the Notre Dame game for $300 each.  I sold the same two tickets to Akron for $20 each.  Give the students the same freedom as I have to buy and sell their seat.

We have fantastic students who make the Big House loud and an extremely difficult place to play for opposing teams (just ask Notre Dame).  And I don't believe "punishing" them through general admission will make them show up for games earlier or in greater numbers.  But making them pay the market rate for their seat might make those who arent really sure about football think twice before buying.  And letting them sell that seat to whoever wants it is only fair.

EDIT: GoBlue20111 accurately points out the flaw in my proposal in that it depends on somebody holding mulitiple seats as I do to be able to sell one ticket at a profit while still attending the game.  And students don't hold multiple seats so my idea wouldnt really fix anything for less attractive games.  Mods can leave the post up or take it down if they chose - my idea is flawed and I see that now.  The problem is real though and while my solution may not solve it we are need to acknowledge it exists.

Vote_Crisler_1937

October 6th, 2013 at 5:21 PM ^

I wasn't a student so I don't know all of the rules but yesterday I found it difficult to focus on the wave as Minnesota was matriculating down the field with the game in reach. Perhaps the 4th quarter would have been better as the difference was 3 closer to 3 scores.

Section 1

October 7th, 2013 at 11:19 AM ^

Still have not seen the broadcast from Saturday.  I say again, Mike Patrick is a real pro and as good a play-by-play man as there is.  And I still don't know who the analyst (Ed Cunningham?) is.  If Mike Patrick was responsible for a lousy broadcast, it would be a first as far as I know.  Still, it wasn't much of a game, in the first half.

Bb011

October 6th, 2013 at 4:45 PM ^

Isn't the empty section(the area above the student section) the section that is now sold by the athletic department to non-students?

gwkrlghl

October 6th, 2013 at 4:51 PM ^

I already know a good number of people who make some sacrifices to buy their season tickets. Raising the prices is only going to make the student section emptier

mGrowOld

October 6th, 2013 at 4:52 PM ^

And allowing them to sell that seat for whatever it's worth too.  Yes.  The seat price shouldnt be subsidized nor should the ability to sell be restricted.

goblue20111

October 6th, 2013 at 5:00 PM ^

I'm curious as to how the pricing work. Not to get overly technical but I don't believe the AD 'subsidzes' the tickets in the direct sense of the term (financially supporting -- paying the difference, financing student ticket purchases, etc.). Rather they're offered to a select group at a discounted price because the school recognizes that this is an endeavor for students by the students.

I don't get your selling point either. So if I don't want to pay full price as a student and attend all the games I'm paying out the wazoo as a 20 year old student or I have to sell my tickets to be able to justify buying tickets to be able to go to OSU and MSU?

umchicago

October 6th, 2013 at 5:35 PM ^

student tix are discounted 50%; at least they were in my day many years ago.  however, many non-fans would buy the season tix then immediately sell them to scalpers and make a few hundred bucks.  the U didn't like those actions.  and they've taken different steps to avoid this over the years.  one year, students had to take all of their tix to every game. then the current game day ticket would be torn off by the ticket taker.  then, it was required to bring your ID.  now, it's general admission.  maybe the solution is to go back to the way it was and not worry about the few thousand students who sell their tix.

gwkrlghl

October 6th, 2013 at 4:50 PM ^

I still think the 'packing' that comes with GA may be partially to blame. When I was a freshman there was often a lot of space up in the 90's but enough of us stayed up there that it probably looked fine on TV

Purkinje

October 6th, 2013 at 4:57 PM ^

This. The ushers should not be seating the students, resulting in the huge empty sections at the top every week. They should let them disperse as they wish. I don't know if it would work, buy it would be the simplest thing to try. It's really bad looking to see those empty rows every week at kickoff. GA may bring a few hundred students in on time that wouldn't have made it on their own, but the visual effect of them being condensed to the low rows rather than dispersed makes it look worse than ever.

bringthewood

October 6th, 2013 at 5:38 PM ^

This is exactly right.  There is no GA seating as you are assigned a seat (given a specific ticket with a seat and row number) at entry to the stadium.  My son has gotten crappy seats by showing up to early.  For crappy games the new policy actually encourages late arrival so you can get seats higher up!  General admission seating (first come first serve) would be much better as you could choose your seat.

Section 1

October 6th, 2013 at 5:23 PM ^

For weeks, I have called the student turnout "pathetic." I still think so.

But yes, absolutely; the General Admission program makes the already-bad turnout look even worse, as bodies pack themselves into the lowest rows.

I don't think I will ever understand the attraction of being in Row 1 of Section 32 when you could be in Row 58 of Section 24. I was once 18, and I was once a Michigan undergrad. I can't understand this new phenomenon. "Senior" priority, closer to the west sideline, used to be prized above all other student seating. Now it seems to be a matter of how low you can get; where the party (now alcohol-free, thanks to the era of post-9/11 security) is hopping ... and you can hardly see the football game.

MightyMatt13

October 6th, 2013 at 5:22 PM ^

Wow, never even considered this before you pointed it out. I'm a 3rd year ticket holder and that's an excellent point, every game so far this season I've been jammed into a row (not a big deal at all fwiw) and looking back at my first 2 years, I never experienced that. It would make the section look a lot better if it wasnt so compacted

gwrock

October 6th, 2013 at 4:51 PM ^

I'd spend some money to increase wifi and cellular data capacity in the stadium during games. It would definitely make the game experience better for the students if they weren't untethered from the internet -- as sad as that may sound.

Tkriz

October 6th, 2013 at 4:55 PM ^

Full price for students is not a good idea. I think full price at the current prices is absurd for the rest of us. $75 for Akron, CMU, Minnesota, etc is way overpriced.

mGrowOld

October 6th, 2013 at 4:57 PM ^

I don't necessarily disagree with you that $75 for Akron is overpriced.  But it should be equally "overpriced" for both students and alumni and both parties should be allowed to buy and sell without restrictions.

I can tell you it sure as hell wasnt "underpriced" for Notre Dame.  That same ticket solf for 4X face value.  

goblue20111

October 6th, 2013 at 4:56 PM ^

Apparently, the student section did fill up. I don't get how your solution fixes anything unless you penalize people for scanning their tickets late. 

The kids who aren't showing up are the same one's whose parents are buying their tickets now and will continue to do so regardless of price and they'll still not care and you'll end up pricing out kids who want to come but decide it's not worth the money for them or their families. 

It's not just at Michigan, the WSJ had an article about this going on at the all-mighty SEC. 

Overpriced tickets, crap opponents, can't have alcohol and if you can you're almost paying tuition again to get it. 

This blog tends to self-select to a group of super fans. My solution: enjoy the game and stop caring about what other people do. I don't get how you can spin this so people don't think (1) it's a money grab by the AD and/or (2) that those who have been good fans (vast majority I'd say) are being 'punished' for the actions of the few. Students have always had discounted tickets and I think it'd be a travesty if this idea were implemented. Maybe even if X numbers of tickets are scanned you get back down to the discounted student price you'd have a better reaction but it's still asking a lot of families and students to put that kind of money up front. 

Sorry I just think this idea really stinks. If you want to cut the student section, we'll get even more quiet as a stadium. I think you just have to accept some stragglers and move on. 

mGrowOld

October 6th, 2013 at 5:02 PM ^

But i didnt advocate cutting the student section.  I advocated giving them them same rights I enjoy to buy and sell tickets to whoever they want at the same price I pay.

I think it's interesting that everyone seems to be focused on the pricing proposal I advocate but no one (yet) has commented on removing the restrictions on selling.  My proposal is not necessarily punative.  As a matter of fact, given the demand for tickets it may actually allow the students to generate a profit.

goblue20111

October 6th, 2013 at 5:12 PM ^

What if I want to attend every game? I'm going to have to choose to sell my Akron ticket (didn't you sell yours at a loss?) to justify attending ND.

As it stands, unloading my tickets in UG was never a problem. Friends usually had out of town visitors who wanted the tickets and would find a way to get into the student section. I just think this idea cuts off your nose to spite your face. I couldn't nor could my family front $600 for football tickets, even at the prospect of possibly making money off the big games (which you know would be nice to attend).

MGJS SuperKick Party

October 6th, 2013 at 4:57 PM ^

1. So the top of the stadium is full and near the field is empty? It doesn't matter general admission or not, there will still be empty seats.

2. I really doubt students will pay 500 for tickets, which will just cause more empty seats or tickets going to other teams. I wouldn't have bought tickets. Instead of the true fans, you would be getting the trust fund students buying tickets, which 2 years ago were one of the problems with the late arriving crowd.

3. I agree that the cost of transferring the ticket should be lifted.



Really, we need to stop complaining about general admission. We were among the last teams in the big ten to do it. Seniors deserve better seats? Get there earlier. Be loud. Be an example. Party after the game. I was a student two years ago, and I would have killed for general admission.