12 More violations for OSU?
Of the quantity and variety of violations that were made public last week, Smith told The Lantern, “For us, it’s natural.”
the timing of this is interesting, with 12 more violations 1 week after self reporting 40.
I wonder if OSU was trying to look like good samaritans by self reporting those while waiting to report the real violations.
Smith says they expect/target 40 violations a year, if I read it correctly. Why is zero tolerance not the target? Wow, talk about institutionalizing a violation prone culture.
How does 40 compare to other schools?
Because you can't expect somewhere around 350 employees and 1,000 student athletes to not make honest mistakes at some point in time. I'm sure most schools that have programs the size of OSU have just as many secondary violations.
They have the rule book don't they? Train fergodsakes.
problem. They have the rule book, they just do not know how to read. How can the NCAA hold ohio to violations when they cant read. Its not their fault, they were born that way.
This is just another way for The Man to keep the little man down. This is wrong on so many levels. I feel so bad for them.
Technically none of us were born able to read.
having your former Heisman winner and current school employee make a personalize video for a recruit is not an honest mistake. Having a film coordinator help coach a team is not an honest mistake. Having these things happen while you are on PROBATION is not an honest mistake and should lead to further penalties. How any violation that gives you a hand up in recruiting is a secondary violation is beyond me.
Ohio has more reported secondary violations than any other school in D1. From 2000-2010 they reported 375 violations. Oklahoma another school known for "bending the rules" only reported 225. Bama has been on probation 4 times since 1995, USC check. It seems that in the NCAA cheating is for "winners".
You may not be able to reasonably expect to not have a violation, but you also shouldn't be saying "well, we had 40 *mistakes* this year, good enough." I work in the nuclear energy industry, and for years all you heard was "0 fuel failures by 2010" even though it's next to impossible to reasonably expect to not have a single fuel failure in any of the 104 operating reactors in the US. Especially when you consider that each plant has somewhere in the neighborhood of 40000-80000 fuel pins (depending on the type of plant and the fuel they use) that could fail from something as simple as a tiny piece of wire that gets caught in a spacer.
Disagree. I agree that you can expect mistakes and some secondary violations but I believe that OSU has led the nation several times in recent years in secondary violations. And please don't tell me it's because they are doing such a great job of finding things. We all saw that was not the case. If they were finding everything, there would be many, many more. When you get put on probation, you need to be doing it BETTER THAN AVERAGE, not leading the nation. It's pretty clear to me that OSU is not making enough of an effort to lessen these violations. And yes, it does make me a bit annoyed because it seems there is no pressure to do it better.
They should be shooting for a number lower than schools with comperable numbers. Does anyone think Stanford is going to lead the nation in secondary violations any time soon? They have 35 varsity sports to Ohio's 39.
Even giving them the benefit of a ratio, and not total numbers, I would love to see the Big Ten average compared to Ohio, let alone a certain school doing things the right way that may or may not be located in Ann Arbor.
The problem with saying that they are right in line with their normal reporting is that they just got hit with sanctions and probation. The whole idea of sanctions and probation is that you are supposed to change the "business as usual" that got you into trouble. What he is ssaying is that they really didn't change anything.
Urban running a squeaky clean program... Mr. Clean would most certainly approve
That's all they need. Just one of the twelve, and boom goes the dynamite!
have more faith in the NCAA then I do. All one primary will do, is give them a stern talking to.
I like Hawley's comment that the B1G is not concerned with quantity. So I can commit as many secondary violations as I want as long as I self-report? One would think that if 40 is substantially above other, similarly-sized B1G athletic departments, someone should be taking a good hard look at that. Or at least monitoring for improvement. It's like the B1G's whole approach is that if you self-report, we believe you're reporting everything, so now we don't have to investigate. Where there's smoke there's fire? Not in the B1G.
And that Smith/Griffin tape still shocks me. Especially with Elliot being a current commit. Can they really say it didn't influence his decision at all? Not even a tiny bit?
On the other hand, from what I recall, Penn State hardly reported any secondary violations over the last 10 years.
Do you think there weren't any? Or were they covering up something?
JoePa is above that /s
If all this happened at Purdue, no would here would give a shit.
I was going to make an attempt at a witty retort ... then I thought, "Nah, he's right ... I wouldn't really care." If it was Indiana or Minnesota I doubt anyone would care.
But it is kind of like saying that if instead of the arsonist getting caught stealing matches it had been the neighbor kid, nobody would pay attention.
Umm, no. The arsonist self reported the women's volleyball coach that accidentally butt dialed a recruit. Secondary violations are increasingly trivial. This is a non-issue.
But secondary violations are just one dary away from being firstdary. This is serious stuff.
I regularly butt-dial the winning Lotto numbers; and without even having them on speed-dial!
One secondary violation is trivial. 40+ per year is not.
If this had happened at Minnesota, Indiana or Purdue, the NCAA would have given them the death penalty. They know full well they could hammer them, and it wouldn't do anything to hurt their bottom line. They could also say how they are taking all of the cheating seriously.
Purdue doesn't have a history of cheating, nor winning for that matter. It's slightly more relevant.
And if Purdue stretched a bit too much, no one would care either. So what? OSU is a top program, has a somewhat sketchy history of bending the rules, and is on probation so they need to be doing it better or equal to others.
If a major CEO has an affair, lots of people care. If your average Joe had an affair, no one would care. That doens't mean it's OK for the CEO to do it.
I don't want them to have any violations, personally. Would it be funny? Hell yes. But I don't want them to have any excuses come Nov. 24.
I think the only important thing in the article is where Smith says he's not sure if the violations will be considered primary. If it's just more minor stuff, then "nothing to see here." I assume we will hear quite a bit more about this tomorrow.
I don't think it is very wise to say that you expect to have around 40 violations. I know you are going to have some and everyone else will too, but I would still say that I hope for 0 violations. This is after the stupid comment from Gordon Gee saying that he just hopes Tressel doesn't fire him. These guys are at some of the highest levels for the university and they say things like that. Pryor probably felt that he actually had to talk at a lower grade level just to fit in with the rest of the student atheletes there.
he sure does appear to be way out of his element.
is a critical component of plausible deniability. And plausible deniability for his institution is what Gene Smith is all about, whether it's avoiding paper trails or giving the university a fall guy when the time finally comes. When one of these finally spirals out of control, they'll fire Smith and everyone'll say "well, now that they've gotten rid of that moron everything will be ok."
The man earns every penny of his paycheck.
“If you have a sport that recruits a large number of athletes, then you’re going to have more of those. If you have a smaller sport with 12 athletes, say women’s golf or men’s tennis or one of those — and they have a consistent number of recruiting violations, then we’ve got a problem.” - Gene Smith
So, if you look at this in terms of "violations per capita" at Ohio, the NCAA should really be far more concerned with sports like golf and tennis, or indeed, per the article, men's synchronized swimming. Clearly, there is some need for cultural change in the non-revenue varsity sports to stem the tide of secondary violations.
Actually, I understand the whole notion of having an expected number of violations because of the sheer size of the department (employees and athletes) - 40, in Smith's case, but I would really like to see "expected versus actual" broken down by sport. If Smith really does have a problem at "10", as he claims, let alone 40, then a little meaningful analysis of the department never hurts at Ohio, right?
It will be interesting to know what happens once these are "processed" - if they are all secondary violations, then Ohio will likely be allowed to continue its "well-established practice of operating in this way."
ohio is using secondary violations to show how awesome their compliance department is! !!!!!!!! im shocked! !
RIGHT!! "Look how honest we are! We should be rewarded for our integrity."
After tatgate does anybody really think this shit matters? Urban could come in on an elephant with hookers following him,Craig James following the hookers, the Pedo Ohio guy with the crooked head passing out $100 bills to recruits and nothing would happen.
(those are all secondary violations btw)
It helps fuel our righteous indignation.
Can you please elaborate on the elephant violation?
That is how Braxton Miller gets to class and back. He asked for a sweet ride like nobody else has, and Meyer delivered.
Is sort of a big deal for Ohio compliance, like April 16 for accountants.
That's right. I almost forgot that the Sports Illustrated article came out last Memorial Day.
OSU, and any school that moves the needle from a media and money standpoint will never get seriously hit. If all the crap from the JT time didn't land them in major trouble, nothing will. The NCAA will NEVER seriously sanction OSU. Hell, what they did to USC did no damage to the program at all. So they missed a couple of bowl games. Taking away those scholarships was just a chess game. They moved their numbers around and they still 3-4 5-stars a year and a top 5-10 class every year.
OSU and any major school in the SEC are no different. Bama got hit a while back, but they skirt the rules all the time and no one cares. The NCAA is nothing more than a rent-a-cop in a bank with a cork gun.
USC will start feeling the pinch in recruiting soon, and it will leave them with terrible depth and the ability to reload, for a few years. Sure their recruiting is insane right now, but once the injuries hit, plus the reality that not every guy will pan out, they will be in trouble.
They appear to be going through catastrophic success at the moment.
is where we always hang." He needs a lesson in corporate jargon.
"The gift that keeps on giving!!!!!!!!"
“Our whole thing is if we have 10 (violations), I’d have a problem. I mean, I really would, because people are going to make mistakes. And that means if I only have 10 out of 350 employees (and) 1,000 athletes — something’s not right.”
Dammit people, you aren't making enough mistakes! Gee and Smith, leaders by example.
It would be appropriate if at least one of the violations turned out to be major, and they told us in July. That way, we could have "Christmas in July" to go with all of the sales promotions of the same name. One can always hope.
I know people like to dismiss the "violations" as being generally ridiculous, but at some point you have to acknowledge that this shit is out of control.
What if there is a major violation or two in there, and Smith is trying to get it in before the NCAA's "tougher punishments" go into effect? It would definitely be a case of "mixed emotions."
They're on probation already, so a major violation would not bode well for them now either.
Yes, the NCAA being the sticklers that they are will thrash them with an extra 6 months of probation and 2 more scholarships.
And do we really believe the NCAA is going to hand out tougher punishments in the future? I'll believe it when I see it.
The most shocking piece of the article isn't that OSU clearly has no intention of aiming for violation-free existence for their athletic department....it's that they have a synchronized swimming team!!?!
What was their violation, selling noseplugs for tattoos?
To be fair, Michigan has a synchronized swimming team too. But I think it's a club sport here rather than varsity.
Lantern: Smith "doesn’t know if they will be deemed primary or secondary violations."
Translation: The violations are so egregious that there is not a shred of doubt about them being primary.
Reporters, let's get those FOIA requests ready to go....
I sincerely hope for Gene Smith that the Ohio Supreme Court doesn't get all impartial on him and rule in favor of ESPN (in the media giant's FOIA case against OSU). I would expect a ruling before the season begins.
This may not be a violation, but apparently, OSU is planning on handing out iPads to all of its student athletes. Legal? Yes, but quite an upgrade from tattoos, don't you think?
Uh, Michigan does that too. I remember reading it in an interview.
It probably saves everyone money in the long run (and the ipads are loaners).
Like the ones proudly and prominamtly displayed in the new basketball lockerrooms at chrisler...
Was not aware of that. I will make sure to do a little more research next time.
have data on the average number of self-reported violations by school. conference, etc. Mathlete?
EDIT: this is the best I found, but certainly not the final word.http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ycn-7965352
Different schools have different needs when they hire an AD. Sometimes you need somebody who can build up your facilities; sometimes you need somebody with CEO-level business experience...and some schools need the skill set of a Gene Smith.
when the football program was on the line OSU lauded its ability to police itself as the best compliance department in the country.
“Division I athletics is a highly regulated environment with a self-reporting requirement,” Hawley said in the email. “When it is clear that a violation has occurred, we expect our institutions to report the violation. Ohio State has a well-established practice of operating in this way.” --Big Ten associate commissioner for compliance, Chad Hawley,
Not even 12 months removed from Tressel gate and this is the Big Ten's take. Good God man.
The MGoBlog community spent last all last summer speculating/hoping for OSU to get hammered. Result - not even a slap on the wrist. This isn't even newsworthy.