Those who stay probably won't go to a bowl next season and will probably end up with Ron English for a head coach in 2011.
this week in unintentionally grim-sounding recruiting headlines
I love Steven Threet for his heart, his moxie and his willingness to try and fit into an offensive scheme that probably wasn't the best fit for him as a QB. But at some point, you have to look in the mirror and decide what is best for you the rest of your life. If that's playing football for 2 yrs at po-dunk state, fine, but if its getting one of the best educations in these United States of America, you have to look at the big picture. And this is where your parents set you straight. You may be a good athlete, but there may be several athletes that are better than you at your given sport. Time to face the facts and live with it.
When I worked with the football team back in the 80's, there was this kid named Rich Hewlett. He was a pretty good football player and he was smart as hell. He started the M vs OSU game as a freshman for god's sake, but he didn't play much at QB much after that game. Bo wanted to mix it up and as we all know, he would do anything, ANYTHING to try and beat Ohio State. It didn't work out that day and Rich ended up as a safety for the rest of his career. He wasn't the best QB, he wasn't the best safety, but godammit, he was a f'ing fighter that would never give up to help his team win championships.
Guess what happened to that guy that wasn't good enough to beat out the likes of Steve Smith and then Jim Harbaugh? He was a pretty good contributor as a safety on the team. He wasn't all conference or all american, but he was a teammate for the MEEECHIGAN Wolverines! He studied his *ss off and did okay on the field and got his degree. Then he went on to get his JD degree and is now a very successful lawyer, an awesome father and great husband. Hugo is a close friend of one of my best friend's family from Michigan. I know him in passing. But he is the epitome of what a Michigan Man is.....unfortunately, Steven Threet is getting advice that tells him he will be a star at XyZ University. This is simply not the case and he could either help his team to championships in the future, help his successors learn faster or move on. He has chosen to move on, versus taking on this unenviable task of helping create champions on his team. This is where he is missing one of life's valuable lessons. Its a shame, that's all i can say.
I had to chance for a soccer scholarship in college at Adrian College, but my life long dream was attending the University of Michigan, even though they only had a club soccer team at the time. I had to work through college and was fortunate enough to be a trainer for the football, basketball and hockey teams (when Red started and they were horrible..) for 4 years. It was never going to be my profession as I knew i needed to work right after college and could never afford to go to grad school for physical therapy, but I knew that it would help pay for college and also let me participate in a team environment. I accepted my fate and played IM sports and club soccer for 4 years.
And i have never looked back. I got the coveted M diploma, i made a family very proud of me and now I am running sales for my current employer in Europe, exposing my children to life experiences I could never imagine growing up.
Be careful what you wish for, don't always let everyone tell you that you are getting "screwed" when you have a full ride to a great university that 99% of the world's population would love to attend. Learn to be a leader for the rest of your life, not only for a couple seasons at xyz college because you are QB1.
Those Who Stay WILL be Champions! Rich Hewlett was and so would Steve Threet if he would have stayed for his entire career.
Those who stay probably won't go to a bowl next season and will probably end up with Ron English for a head coach in 2011.
Way to miss the entire point of the diary. Or congratulations on ignoring it completely. I cannot tell if you are serious or joking, but if you actually believe that, then I am glad you are not a current member of the football team. I can only hope that the players ignore this type of sentiment from the fan base.
It was really more of a response the "THOSE WHO STAY" cliche you used at the end.
I once came across Brandon Minor in the fishbowl. He was in tears over one of Brodie's posts.
Carson Butler once tried to kill me at Sbarro over one of my posts :(
He tried to kill you because you wear glasses and a pocket protector and in the right light, you look like RR.
This is exactly the mindset that I had when I first heard the news (not the rumor), today kids just dont have the guts and the gumption to stick anything out. Having just recently graduated myself its a pain in the ass in this world, especially with the state of the economy in michigan and as a whole. Threet may not have ever been a Heisman winner but he would have been a contributor, maybe even keeping the starting job or seeing enough PT to become a mid/late round draft pick (for gods sake Ball States QB is currently the 5th best QB in the draft this year). All in all he would have been better off if he would have stayed if not for his playing career but at least academically.
I admire the spirit of your post (well, aside from the whole "kids these days" curmudgeonry) but I think we need to wait and hear exactly why Threet has made this decision. And Threet ain't moving to safety on anyone's team. If the guy wants to be an NFL QB, then you can't say this isn't the right move for him in that regard.
Threet can go back to Michigan anytime (post-graduate degree) but he'll only have so long to play football. Stop bashing the kid.
If the kid's goal is to be a QB in the NFL, then let him go where he thinks he is best suited to do that. To act like we know what is best for him is ridiculous.
For Threet to think he has even a sub-atomic chance to be a QB in the NFL is ridiculous.
I agree with the blogger. And I couldn't care much less for the sudden spate of concern and well-wishes for Threet.
I wish him whatever he earns: nothing more, nothing less. It would probably help if he stops listening to whoever is helping him delude himself that he has the talent to start at a major college, though.
How can you pretend to know what's best for someone you don't know and never will?
So because Steven Threet wants to continue his athletic career in a different location, there is something "wrong with today's college athlete?"
I have no idea why Threet decided to transfer. Maybe he realized Forcier is getting all the love and he felt he wasn't going to get a fair shot in the spring (my uneducated guess). Maybe he just realized Forcier was better. Maybe he doesn't like working with Rodriguez or maybe he doesn't like Ann Arbor in winter. I have no f'in clue. But why does his desire to continue to compete to be a starting college football QB mean something is wrong with him? Why does the fact he is choosing a different path from yourself make him wrong?
To be fair to the OP, there is no reason that Threet couldn't fulfill his desire to compete to be a starting college football QB at Michigan. If he saw the writing on the wall then so be it, but there's no denying that he could have been a part of the Michigan offense next season.
Yes, he could have had a a good shot at playing this year, but what happens his junior and senior year? Obviously a different type of QB is needed to run this offense, and eventually he would be beaten out.
Very true. Remember also that Threet transferred from GT expecting to back up Mallett in Lloyd's offense with arguably less playing time than he's already seen. He may have had a better shot at competing for the starting role in that situation, but it certainly wasn't evident that he'd get the proper draft exposure and PT that this transfer seems to hint that he wants.
I'd be interested to know if his motives were that of an aspiring NFL QB or if there were issues outside of the tired square peg/round hole issue that we've all beaten to death.
If we ever even find out his real motive
"there is no reason that Threet couldn't fulfill his desire to compete to be a starting college football QB at Michigan."
Unless Threet felt that he wasn't going to be given a fair shot in that competition.
Why wouldn't he be given a fair shot? RR has always said he'll put whomever on the field that gives the team the best chance to win. All coaches are like that. They want to win just as badly as anyone. And if ST gives you the best chance to win, even though you don't get to run your "preferred offense" then you are not going to run your "preferred offense" and you're gonna go with the guy that'll get the W.
Along the lines of the original post in this thread. I remind -- or enlighten -- the reader of the Jim Betts story. Betts was the back-up qb on Bo's first Michigan team. He and starting qb, Don Moorhead, were both juniors on that team. Moorhead had a wonderful season. Before their senior season, Bo said Betts was the second best qb in the Big Ten (and OSU still had Rex Kern), but he was moving him to safety. Betts never talked about the unfairness of the situation. He just became an All Big Ten player and got a cup of coffee in the NFL. (And, when Don Moorhead got nicked against Texas A&M in came Jim Betts, who was not even on the official depth chart. BTW, if Threet's goal is to qb in the NFL, I suspect he probably had a better chance getting there by competing with Forcier and Robinson than going off to a IAA school or sitting out yet another season.
Threet's best bet to make it in the NFL is not by sticking it out here. Anyone could see that the clock was ticking on the time it would take until a more mobile QB took over.
Joe Flacco sat the bench at Pitt, then elected to transfer to Delaware. Obviously, that doesn't mean it always applies, but if Threet feels his best interest is to go down a division and start for 3 years in a system that suits him better, I think that gives him a much better shot than riding the bench here for a couple years.
No, if Steven Threet wants to play in the NFL, he has a better chance of doing so by playing at a school that won't ask a slow, 6'6" kid to run the ball 15 times and throw nothing but bubble screens.
before Threet's announcement, almost everyone was praying for Threet/Sheridan to ride the bench/wear the headphones and pass on their knowledge/experience to the incoming freshmen Qbs; maybe he starts the first game, but that is it...
after Threet's announcement, he gets chastised/berated for not being a team player, falling on the proverbial sword, welcoming the chance to ride the bench for 3 yrs, and working alongside RR who verbally bitch slapped him after every 3 and out.
(plz no more bubble screens)
family. Even getting a scholarship offer in any sport or art is quite an accomplishment, regardless of the institution. You must have been hell on wheels in IM.
In the very early '80's, both the hockey and BBall teams struggled; it was a low point for both programs.
Glad to hear how well Rich Hewlett is doing. I saw him play QB; but do not recall him playing much defense, but I was not very attentive.
I understand what you are saying regarding loyalty, but for good or (really both good and) bad, things change. These days, I really can't blame Threet for looking elsewhere. His circumstances have really changed on him over the past year plus.
Every year future collegiate athletes choose schools based upon what they have to offer it and what the school has to offer them. This also happens daily in the dating ritual, the shopping ritual(cars,dresses,shoes) and whatever else you can throw in there as far as courtship rituals go. Michigan Sports has always seemed something like that of a parochial school. I am not saying they are directly synonymous just implying a slight comparison. Bo, Gary, and the Big Carr covered alot up and sold the idea of something larger and created something of an eternal destiny by donning the winged helmet. They werent looking for TEMP Labor. And no this doesn't end in,"Maybe Justin Boren was right?" But Michigan, Michigan of the past, the school you so clearly reference not only in spirit, but also in style and execution, has without question........changed. Before I conclude let me say that Steve was a guy, a recruit who is so in the Tom Brady, Grbac mold that it is ridiculous. Tom was not mechanically perfect as a Sophomore either. QB's TAKE TIME. And frankly if yo uwanna do the pro QB comparison thing, as I watched the Super Bowl this year I saw a two SLOW of FOOT taller QB's do just fine....Also....Some of the sad comparisons to Navarre show the utter ineptitude of some of those reading and writing on various Michigan blogs. What Threet did as a redshirt Freshamn was MORE I would argue than any of us fans could have hoped for. And then for some UNKNOWN reason, other than I hope friendly competition, he even played second fiddle to.....yeah that whatever other guy. If it was not for Threets insertion into the Utah game, or the season, I really wonder where they would've wound up in this one. And I thought, after the Utah game, that Threets's transfer was already on the books. I think Threet, or however you spell his name, by staying and playing through this year, proved ENOUGH allegiance to Michigan.
I cannot disagree with your post. I will say that there are different priorities and pressures motivating these young adults today than there were 30 years ago. But to be fair just as others are quick to point out we don't and may never know the entire story. Heck, maybe Threet will transfer into a situation where he can sit in the pocket and throw the crap out of the ball and live up to his 4-star HS status. Or maybe he holds a clipboard for three more years and ends up with a degree from Florida International on his wall. Either way it's way too early to tell.
By the way I too turned down playing bball at a Hope or an Albion to go to my dream school as well. Now I have an ME degree from UM, MBA from UNC and am growing an importing company while loving life on the beach in Los Angeles. I guess you could say that we were cut from the same cloth.
This discussion reveals the paradigm shift that the original post is all about.
Those who defend Threet, in general, cite that he is doing what's in his best interest.
Those who condemn Threet, in general, cite that he is not doing what's best for the team.
As you may notice, they are pretty much the same thing but evaluated from different perspectives. One perspective, the old-school "curmudgeonry", applies greater value to teamwork, sacrifice, and cooperation than service to the self. The other perspective, that of the newfangled "kids these days", is all about doing what is best for the individual, and sees the team as little more than a vehicle for individual success.
Whatever Threet's motives may actually be, this discussion was quite telling. And with that in mind, I agree entirely with the sentiment of the original post.
But, as someone below pointed out, things have changed. The culture not only of M but the entire country is one of unparalleled self-interest, division, and specialization. So while I think Threet may have been greatly rewarded by staying at M, his decision is one that is aligned with the current cultural tide, a tide which at present shows no signs of breaking. In that regard, his decision is a product of its environment and is economically sound.
I think you're absolutely right about the views stated here. However I still think he should be doing what is best for himself.
I doubt anyone questioned his "greater value to teamwork, sacrifice, and cooperation than service to the self" when he left Georgia Tech, another very prestigious academic university, to come here.
It seems like a bit of a double standard to say that he should be loyal to UM, but if loyalty was most important, he would never be here to begin with.
I'm not going to say I'm not biased. My love of UM is ever-expanding and quite large to begin with (like Charlie Weis's beltline).
I wouldn't comment on his move from GT because, frankly, I don't care about them. Also, I'm not condemning him for leaving; as I wrote (perhaps you did not catch it, as the last paragraph was an addendum), he is following the norms of his time. I would prefer he stay; I would prefer to see an athlete with the same loyalty as I have; but he's doing what he feels is right so best wishes to him.
I agree 100%. Nicely stated.
Perhaps I will only be repeating the same thing you just said, but to expound on the difference of the baby boomers mentality and the information age person. I am the child of 2 baby boomers so yes that puts me in my mid 30's. My parents always told me to go to school and get good grades so I could get into a good college where I could earn my degree so that I could get a good job and work there until I was able to retire and then let the company that I worked for take care of me and my spouse until we both died. I watched as they followed their own advice. They had already graduated and did everything right. I was too stupid to follow their advice so I dropped out of High School so that I had to go back and get my GED. It took me a little while to find descent gainful employment but I stayed with it and I now make a pretty good living. I have recently started my own business on the side where I make about the same per hour as I do in my fulltime job except I work half as hard and I do not pay taxes on it so it ends up being more (yes I do it all legal I have a good accountant). My parents split in the mid '90s and my mom changed careers in her early 50's. She went back to school and it was not until recently that she found descent gainful employment but even with 2 BAs she does not make anywhere near what I make. My dad stuck with the job that he had as he always advised me to do but at the end of last year that business went belly up. He is now looking for a job while in his 60's but the amount of money that he is talking about getting is nowhere near what I (the high school drop out) make.
My whole point is that what worked for my parents and grandparents does not work. In 1974 we developed the 401k plan. That meant that the worker was responsible for their retirement. Before that it was the employer who took care of it. A company will downsize a person out and not even feel bad about it because the world is now run by, what the Bible calls "Lovers of self" If Carr had a successor that was just like him Threet probalby would have stayed but it did not work out that way. This is now a "Lover of self" world and I think that Threet is only following suit with the rest of the world, (and UM). Admit it we all loved the idea of RR coming to UM at first but then with the loss of Mallet, Boren, and many others the skeptics voices now ring out a little louder. Go to Freep.com and you will find all kinds of RR haters. I used to go to that site until I found this one. I find less RR haters so I don't go to that site anymore. Not for the blogs anyway. Now tell me am I being disloyal or am I just thinking of myself.
I agree, the views reflect the generations. I'm in my forties, and I would definitely tell him to stay and compete. Admittedly, though, having different offensive systems put into place at two schools after he arrived made it tough to do that. Threet's situation is unique, but kids today are much too self absorbed. I don't know if Bo or Woody would want to coach half of them.
Yeah. Bo really hated being around Lloyd's teams.
I'm going to assume that the OP, Ernis, and the rest of self-proclaimed "curmudgeonly" folks have worked at one company, with no pay raise, for their entire careers. And that in this time of economical hardship, you've all voluntarily taken a pay cut?
People have always looked out for themselves. This is not a new phenomena. While I agree with watching your own back, I do not think the attitude of self-sacrifice is wrong or evil or anything, and I'm not attacking it. I am attacking the notion that it is somehow a "generational" thing that didn't exist back in the "good ol' days".
A company is not the same as a football team. Having worked in a variety of environments as well as played on football and other athletic teams, I can tell you that there are similar elements but if you feel the same about them, then you have a hell of a job or are not getting the most out of sports.
Self-interest is a defining feature of successful organisms, but genus Homo has thrived through social cooperation. Throughout history the two have been in tandem, fluctuating in terms of which one is more pervasive than the other. The issue I think is revealed here, and what I find most fascinating about this discussion, is a shift in values. However people may have acted at a given point in time, in the fairly recent past (see: generations prior to Gen X) the social/moral emphasis of what people should be is one of teamwork, sacrifice, etc. while the prevailing philosophy of more recent days encourages self-interest.
During my sophomore yr I took a class in Organizational Behavior. The above is a well known theory about the generations, and that baby boomers and such feel it is much more important to do what they can to improve the company, while Gen X'ers look out for what is best for themselves.
Neither idea is wrong, as you have pointed out, it is just a difference in natures.
I don't think they are different at all in terms of goals. Sure, you don't shower naked with your co-workers and the ways of bonding are different, but the end goals are the same. When I play on a team, I want to win. When I go to work, I want to win (as in, make money). I didn't like all my football teammates, and I don't like all my co-workers, but I work with them in any way possible to win.
I think it's beyond presumptuous to assume Threet is leaving for selfish reasons at this point, but that's not the issue here. Even if he is, sometimes you gotta watch out for your future. If he doesn't see Michigan as the place, why waste his and Michigan's time?
I didn't presume Threet's motives. I made an observation about this discussion about him and worked with it.
Like I said, there are similar elements between athletic teams and other organizations. My experience has been, though, that there is something ethereal about the goals of a team; at work the goals are strictly practical. Then again, my experience is not one of pursuing athletics as a lucrative profession. Since most people are like me in terms of our sports experience, perhaps that leads to the greater expectation of loyalty from athletes.
Perhaps, then, the paradigm shift is driven by the turning of sports into an industry? Surely, Yost did not have to deal with kids who thought of football as a road to the big bucks.
I'd point out that there are two different kinds of "self-interest" here, as you (above) pointed out that humans have achieved much through social cooperation.
Threet, by being (by all accounts) a good teammate, a quality he will no doubt bring with him wherever he goes, doesn't and hasn't sacrificed that spirit of social cooperation. He isn't the football equivalent of a gunner in basketball - prioritizing his stats more than the success of the team. He played hard and played selflessly.
The self-interest on display is a matter of priorities. Is it more important to him to wear the Maize and Blue on the bench, running an offense to which we can all admit he's ill-fitted than it is to pursue a dream of being a starting QB and possibly making the NFL? What happened to Threet, given the change from Carr to Rodriguez is equivalent to showing up at LeBron James' house and telling him he's a baseball player now. While some qualities of athleticism may transfer, this isn't what he's skilled at, isn't what he's good at, and isn't what he signed up to do.
I don't believe in Beatles. I just believe in me.
Yoko and me.
Goddammit. I'm pro-Yoko, but it pisses me off that it he added that line at her suggestion.
It would piss me off, but I know he probably felt that way and would have thought of it himself. The white washing of May Pang is my only real issue with Yoko.
I believe Steven Threet would be more relaxed, show more poise, exude more confidence, and be considerably more accurate if he did not have to "think" so hard about running an offense that is foreign to him. He has skills. But even talented athletes can look average when they get rattled, or pressured. Threet was both. So much of the pressure on Threet could be removed if only he were operating an offense that was second nature to him. Threet may yet have what it takes to become an NFL quarterback. I don't know. But his dream of playing in the NFL will never come to fruition if he stays at Michigan.
Now your going to simply say to a kid....
'If you cannot accomplish your dreams playing for Michigan, Then for the love of Michigan, you should just give up on your dreams, and be happy with whatever you can get here' ???
Thats crazy. You want him to forfeit his dreams without ever knowing whether they could have come true or not. And not just any dream, but a dream of fame and fortune.
I hope nothing but the best for Threet. He may yet become a fine pro style quarterback someday.
The situations are very different, as were/are the individuals involved.
RH was essentially the right type of QB for the system he was in, but was beat out. Fortunately, he was also the type of athlete that could compete at other positions. Lastly, he was still working with the same coaching staff that recruited him (which I can assure you from experience makes a difference in how the regime looks at their commitment to you).
ST was in a situation where he pretty much had the rug pulled out from under him from a system perspective. He is definitely not the type of athlete that could play another position at this level, and lastly, he has been reviewed by recruiting services as someone with great potential, but only as a drop back passer type QB.
I am quite sure that he is not going to find the "extras" at other places that he would at Michigan. However, if he has a burning desire to see how far he can go as a football player, that opportunity is probably the one thing he can no longer achieve at Michigan. I am skeptical as to whether he will ever come close to Joe Flacco type success, but I can't fault him for his desire to try.
Last of all, we don't know how his meeting with RR went. For all anyone knows, RR agreed that he would be best served elsewhere, and maybe even encouraged him in that direction.
"I had to chance for a soccer scholarship in college at Adrian College, but my life long dream was attending the University of Michigan, even though they only had a club soccer team at the time."
Not to be a dick but this whole this is BS because Adrian is a D3 school and I know for a fact that Division 3 schools do NOT give out athletic scholarships.
Click on this link go to the "Membership" portion of the article and the first sentence is...
"The division consists of colleges and universities that choose not to offer athletically related financial aid (athletic scholarships) to their student-athletes."
Also in the second paragraph...
"D-III schools range in size from less than 500 to over 10,000 students. D-III schools compete in athletics as a non-revenue making, extracurricular activity for students; hence, they may not offer athletic scholarships, they may not redshirt freshmen and they may not use endowments or funds whose primary purpose is to benefit their athletic programs."
Thank you, come again.
The message does lose a little luster when the messenger is clearly full of it.
Also it's kind of hypocritical, because the poster himself did what was in his own best interest. He weighed his options, Michigan versus Adrian, and then concluded which school was best for himself and choose to attend that school.
I find it hard to believe that he would have weighed his options and then decided to go with what he felt was the lesser school. He chose Michigan (his self admitted "dream school") because he felt it would be more beneficial to him in the long run (which it has).
Thus, he put his own interests first, making this whole argument kind of ridiculous.
In all fairness to the original author D3 schools can always give athletic, ahem, academic scholarships when they see fit.
For football and basketball, maybe. Soccer? No.
It's still BS and said poster taking an under-the-table illegal scholarship would definitely be a me first thing to do, and serves only further undermine his point.
It would hurt the "team" (Adrian College) in that it would be illegally diverting funds which should be used for academic scholarships and also if the school were to be caught, they would suffer penalties.