Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
What, Exactly, is Rich Rodriguez Building?
I've got no typical Scout disclaimer to begin with. You know, when a guy says, "Now don't get me wrong, I LOVE me some Rich Rodriguez. I think we're gonna win the next 14 national championships. I now drink 4 gallons of chocolate milk every day. I haven't washed my underwear since we beat the Minnesota Golden Goophers. Charlie Weis is fat. BUT..."
I simply question why people are giving Rich Rodriguez so much of the benefit of the doubt. You can call me negative. you can call me a "Closet Sparty," you can call me a "H8TER," but I don't care.
Charlie Weis, Jim Tressel, and Mark Dantonio--the coaches of Michigan's most hated rivals--all won with with another guy's players. They all came in and implemented different systems, brought all new assistants, all of them are assholes, and yet--they ALL won with players they did not recruit (but they did add some of their own). And all of them did even better in Year 2. You can argue that Notre Dame fell off over the last two years--but at least Charlie Weis is recruiting the hell out of (whatever you recruit the hell out of), and Ohio State is stockpiling talent in a big way. They also have this one guy named Terelle Pryor.
And Dantonio? All he is doing is winning over provincial Michigan and provincial, sniping, self-righteous Michigan Media members and the perception is that MSU is THE program in Michigan. Yeah, Michigan high school football may not put out tons of talent, but Michigan has benefitted from being the Big Dawg in our great state for 40 years, and many, MANY Michigan stars have come from My Michigan. But overnight, MSU has seemingly usurped UM in the hearts and minds of Michigan, and Dantonio has, to this point, won a sort of "culture war" with UM. He tutored under the all-time passive agrressive genius in Columbus, and he is indeed making the state of Michigan greener.
So where does that leave Rich Rodriguez, Michigan football, and Michigan football fans?
Well, in my opinion, this goes way deeper than just shouting "We'll be back!" "Wait'll Rich Rod gets his players!"
Let's look at it from strictly a football standpoint for this first "blog" of mine.
2008: Rich Rod is hired. UM implements some sort of "spread" for the Capital One Bowl and beats Florida. Everyone happy. Everyone clap. Everyone say: "Where has this been? See what we can do? Look at what Rich Rod did at West Virginia! Now, with MICHIGAN TALENT--LOOK OUT BEEYOTCHEZZ!" And when Rich Rodriguez holds Lloyd's last recruiting class pretty much intact (losing only a tight end and a drop back QB)--and adding SIX players to that class in the 11th hour--it was party time!
Let's fast forward past last football season to now.
The recruiting class from 2008, for those who care to notice, is not looking so great, expecially for a team so thin. We have seen five players leave the team. A sixth, Justin Feagin, may never see the field again. The horribly named Mike Cox is a huge question mark. Even Darryl Stonum causes people to wonder. People, that's over 25% of the class.
2009 saw a great class come in. Eligibility questions aside, it is a good mix of real talent, offense and defense, and diamonds in the rough. And Rodriguez again showed great 11th-hour prowess with the signings of Warshington, Robinson, Lewan, Roh and Lalota.
But with so many departures during the first-year transition, and the attrition already seen from the 2008 class, 2009 and 2010 have to be HOME RUNS for a team that is thin with defensive talent and depth.
When Scout posters began hating on star gazing, forty times, and Michigan high school talent, they all shouted in unison: "Look at the offer sheets!" Well I did--and it ain't pretty.
To wit: Four---FOUR of the verbals from this class have no other offers.
Outside of Christian Pace, MRob, Ricardo Miller, Jeremy Jackson, Kenny Wilkins, and Devin Gardner, the other schools offering UM recruits are these (according to Scout): Army, Bowling Green, Indiana, Stanford, Louisville, Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Minnesota, and Tulane. I have to admit--that is an impressive list--if you are going after possible future Rhodes Scholars and guys who can go out on a date with a coed and not even think about buying a condom. But Big Time national championships? Not so much. And go ahead and color me not terribly awed by a 6'2, 256 lbs offensive lineman in Pace. Can you say, "Another turbulent offseason splattered with multiple decommits?" I hope so.
Now we stand on the precipice of the 2009 season with two true freshmen at the most important position in the world (yes, even more important than the head cheerleader for the Dallas Cowboys). We stand on the precipice of the 2009 season hoping that Brandon Graham and Mike Martin don't even get a hangnail. We stand on the precipice of a 2009 season which will see our beloved Wolverines go on the road to Iowa, Michigan State and Wisconsin. We stand on the fuck that. Notre Dame, Ohio State, and Penn State are all coming to town. We have our THIRD defensive coordinator in THREE years.
I know you all want to think that Rodriguez is "building something"--and so do I. But I'd like to know what it is, and I'd like to know if you really think he has the time.
2009 and 2010 have to be all-time recruiting classes. We need them for talent and depth. We can't have half this class being "flyers"--if 25% of the guys you really DO want wash out--what are the odds with guys that NOBODY wants? It is scary. Expecially if you are a guy who, like me, is a real loser with no other identity than to put on my Michigan jammies and go to the mall on Sunday with my chest all puffed out, just daring some fucking pathetic fucktard to give me some shit. Of course, if he does, I'll rear back and say, "Hey, I was just robbed and the police gave me this stuff to wear because the goddam robber even took my clothes and stuffed them in a basket he had attached to his iron lung."
That was beautiful.
If only we could all say the same thing. You may be the smartest person who clicked on the article yet.
you my friend are a star watcher. you can say all this crap if we suck after rich rod's third year. not now.
I think you meant H8R. Typing H8TER is a bit redundant, and far too lengthy.
I don' think "BEEYOTCHEZZ" is spelled like this
You guys can't even agree with me that Dantonio, Tressel and Weis are assholes?
sphincter, calling others assholes.
Regarding your post, I guess I do, on an emotional, superficial level, share your concerns. But when I remember that Llyod Carr, with an NFL-laden team, lost to Appalachian State, was blown out by Oregon, and suffered Chinese-water torture at the hands of OSU, all home.
That 2007 team had no excuses, yet the defense played no better (probably worse) than under RR. There was no excuse for having the number of missed tackles and bad pursuit angles.
Carr had the benefit of having a very talented QB, Ryan Mallet, that fit his system, subbing in for Henne when he was hurt. How many more losses would Michigan had to endure if Nick Sheridan had to QB the team????
Absolutely no QB, no playmaker at WR, and a paper-thin O-line that was short on experience in addition to defense as a whole that did not tackle well. A reportedly vastly out-of date S&C program. That is the situation that RR walked into. Who knows what other stuff was going on behind the scenes.
Michigan has also had a good deal of attrition throughout the team over the past few years to compound matters.
The situation is better this year, but we still have the problem at QB. We will be better, but much depends on how well the QB plays, injuries, and improvement on defense.
I do really think that the biggest threat to the program is impatience with RR and judgment based solely on W's and L's, not what he really was confronted with. The programs that perform the worse are the ones that go through a coaching change every 3-4 years.
sure, after any 3-9 season the most recent recruiting class will look weak. not to mention a class that was as heavily relied upon as them. most teams have the luxury of utilizing their experienced players, Michigan football in 2008 did not.
Bring Moeller back.
When you talk about the other coaches being successful with the other coach's players and RR not doing that, you have to know that his offense is one of the hardest to learn and to buy in to. So everybody knew there would be some growing pains in the first year.
runs his program his way. he has a track record of poor-decent first season, good second season, steamroll motherfuckers from third season on. yea charlie weis won with another guys players...and hasn't won since. dantonio won 6 games his first year and 9 his second...and has yet to beat a team that was ranked in the top 10 (or top 25?) at the time they played, who has he really beaten? tressel's a pretty good coach although he's put himself in a bit of a corner if he doesn't get braxton miller in 2011 (post for another day) so basically you have one coach that can't win with his (weis), one coach that can't beat anyone with a pulse (dantonio), and a coach that's really good and doesn't belong in your comparison (tressel). what was your point again?
he has a track record of poor-decent first season, good second season, steamroll motherfuckers from third season on.
That sentence right there is the biggest reason to believe that RR will turn this around. If anyone without brains can say "Oh 3-9, that Bad, michigan SUCK big time" then it hardly takes a genius to prove that that is the pattern and pretty much every person with at least half a brain knows that Michigan is eventually going to be really good. I can't wait to watch winged helmets "steamroll those motherfuckers" into oblivion whether they are Ohio State, USC, the SEC, or anybody else.
I have a hunch you are about 12 years old, but so what? I'm bored.
That statement, you know, about the sucky first season and then "steamrolling" people or whatever...happened at West Virginia. It is not proof that he will do anything at Michigan.
And he did it at ONE stop--that, again, proves nothing--except that he did it at West virginia. If he had an Urban Meyer pattern, of winning at two places before Florida hired him--OK. But Rich Rod doesn't have that kind of track record as a head coach at two schools--two schools that even kind of matter.
There is no correlate here.
Dude, stop just making shit up. You've already been called on your lack of knowledge on this subject at least once in this thread already, yet you persist in pretending to know something about it. Trying doing your fucking homework before you just spout off. Get off of your lazy ass and at least try to be informed in your posting. The improvement numbers that people have been talking about have happened at every stop he's made in his coaching career. Every stop, every category, every time. The correlation is there, you're just choosing to ignore it. You're either one of the laziest fucks I've ever seen on here or you're doing it on purpose. Either way, knock it off.
Every single point you made has been refuted. RR's situation isn't analogous to what Tress, Dantonio, or Weis had coming in - the amount of returning talent was starkly different. Yes, this recruiting class sucks when you choose to omit the, you know, good players (heavens, what a deduction!). He lead an extremely effective offense at Tulane, Clemson, and WVU. He formed a good team at WVU. You've blantantly incorrectly cited his record against VaTech - something I suspect wasn't an honest mistake. You've conceded none of these, and, instead, decided to stoop to referring to people as "Walmart Wolverines" instead of actually either being an adult and admitting you're wrong, or just going the fuck away.
Calling people who belive Rodriguez is a good coach "kool-aid drinkers" is the equivalent of the assholes who called people who supported Carr "apologists". You're sitting in your own sad little world fabricating fear and outrage about things beyond your control. It is, by any definition of the word, Trolling.
I'm not sure what this rant was about. Back on the couch, and start gazing at the ceiling, my friend.
A few things:
1. "The horribly named Mike Cox." I think you misspelled "the best name ever, Mike Cox."
2. "I have to admit--that is an impressive list--if you are going after possible future Rhodes Scholars and guys who can go out on a date with a coed and not even think about buying a condom." First of all, I doubt Bowling Green is a hotbed for Rhodes Scholars, and secondly, none of those schools apart from Army scream "celibacy." Not sure what you're getting at here.
3. "We stand on the precipice" three times. Barf. Send this to Bill Plaschke.
I don't think you're a H8TER (I don't think anyone on this board would use that term, at least not spelled that way), but I think you're just farting out cheeseball nonsense.
"2009 and 2010 have to be all-time recruiting classes." Or else what? You'll leave? Or we'll stink? Okay, whatever.
The idea that other coaches have won with their predecessors' players has to do with two very important things:
-The offensive scheme from regime to regime did not significantly change. In the case of Michigan, the team went from one extreme to another.
-There was not massive turnover in personnel when the new coaches arrived. When Rodriguez landed in Ann Arbor, his starting QB, best wide receiver, starting offensive tackle, and a host of others simply left. Imagine if Chris Gamble had left Ohio State when Tressel arrived.
And as for Notre Dame, they're not that good. In fact, under Weis, they kind of suck. Who cares if they're recruiting well? It hasn't translated to on-field success.
I'm still disappointed that we'll never see a Beaver-Cox backfield.
Much like I keep wishing for a regular South Carolina vs Oregon State matchup. The headlines would be priceless.
But Chris Gamble DIDN'T leave when Tressel took over.
So are you saying that Rodriguez sucks because he is responsible for the irregularly high loss of personnel at Michigan during his one-year regime?
Also, I try my very hardest not to be a total douche when I reply to posts with which I disagree, and I'm not so sure I succeeded here. Apologies if my language was condescending.
But, for the record, I think you're wronger than turd pancakes.
I am NOT saying Rich Rod sucks because of the loss of personnel.
I am, in fact, NOT saying he sucks at all! I'm simply questioning why people are so sure that it will work out and whether he is going to have the time to work it out. And I am questioning the recruiting for THIS year--saying that UM needs to land some PLAYAS.
You might as well throw on some fishnet stockings, tie a rope around your balls, and have one last moment of ecstasy before the whole shit-house goes down in flames.
I also agree with you that Dantonio, Tressel and Weis are sphincters.
Bad things were bound to happen when we lose almost all of our offensive starters.
Let's wait 3 years and see where we are then. Almost every single elite program has gone through bad years and transition periods.
For now, step away from the precipice that you seem to be edging towards, and calm down. You don't want to appear crazy on the interwebs.
This place has SOOO turned into a Scout Kool-Aid party.
You're doing too much. You gotta do less.
Maybe I don't hang out at Scout enough, but why do you keep mentioning them as being the ultimate homers? Why can't we drink Rivals Kool-Aid? Or MGoKool-Aid?
I guess what I don't get when people post stuff like this is how they can ignore the past performance of Rodriguez at every stop he's ever made. What happened last year is exactly the same thing that happened at every single prior stop for him. It was then followed up by a much more successful season, and an even more successful season after that. The reason that someone like Weiss, Dantonio, or Tressel could win with someone else's players is because both of them implement traditional schemes that don't require a certain type of player. Rodriguez's scheme does, and players that aren't suited for that scheme aren't successful in it. Part of the reason why the players he is recruiting are "lower ranked" is because the ranking systems are predominantly geared to evaluate players in traditional schemes. It's not really hard to understand.
The problem with your post is that Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State are not going to leave the Big Ten and join the ACC.
And Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State leaving the Big Ten for the ACC has what to do with my post, exactly?
in the Big East to the defections of Miami, VT and BC.
I figured that's what he was getting at, but it was irrelevant to the point that I made in my prior post about the year one to year two improvement. Yes, those schools did leave for the ACC, but it wasn't between RR's first and second years. He had that improvement, the same as every other stop, while still having to contend with Miami, Virginia Tech, and BC.
In years 2 and 3 of RichRod at WVA, Miami, VT and BC were still in the Big East.
In fact, they beat the Hokies in both of those years, both with VT ranked no lower than #10. They physically manhandled them both times, so much that Beamer himself after the game said he's never had team whipped like that before.
He did go 0-2 vs Miami in those years, but in Year 2 they were coming off a 3-8 season, and just the fact they were competitive and covered the spread against the defending champs was a good step. In year 3 MIami beat them in the closing minutes by 2 minutes. They were the top ranked team. Regardless of conference, when he left WVA, the Mountaineers were a much better program than the Canes. He would have whipped them had they stayed in the big East in the Pat White era.
Check your history books first before implying that RR's success had nothing to do with coaching and players and everything to do with conference defections.
Also: is this the same Barking S that was all about the Rich Rod era one year ago saying how great it would be to have a team prepared and in shape? Wow, jumping off the bandwagon, so soon. Its too bad UM football has inconvenienced your life.
2001: Virginia Tech 35, West Virginia 0 (Year 2)
2002: West Virginia 21, Virginia Tech 18 (Year 3)
I don't know what your definition of "he beat them in both those years" is, but mine wouldn't include a 35-0 arse kicking. And in Year 3, WVU beat the Hokies 21-18--again, not exactly what I'd call "manhandling"
In fact, during the great season of 2005 when WVU went 11-1 and beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl, the Mountaineers' only loss was a 34-17 whuppin at the hands of---Virginia Tech.
2001 was RichRod's first season as HC at WVA. Yes, they lost 35-0 to VT as part of a 3-9 season.
Year 2, 2002....WVA 21 VT 18....in Blacksburgh, VT ranked in the top 10. You are a college football expert, so tell me how many folks go into Blackburgh in November and beat the Hokies?
Year 3, 2003.....WVA 28, VT 7....in Morgantown. VT was 6-0 and ranked in the 5. They did indeed manhandle them. Beamer said as much in the post game afterwards.
And, more so than the Spread and Shred, it was the physical game that WVA brought to the table that had people raving about the early RR era at WVA.
So, again, your assertion that tied any of RR's success in the Big East to the defections of some of tis teams to the ACC could not be farther from the truth. RR proved he could compete and beat those teams before they left.
Thanks for playing, though.
You have to remember that what M fans wanted more than anything was a change in philosophy. You can't have that without losing a few players. The best counterexample is Tressel, who was just an upgrade to John Cooper. Rodriguez is a new wave.
As for the guys he's recruiting, I think it's a combination of tiny spread electrons not getting their due (remember, at least one scouting service admits that they issue stars based on PRO potential), and the 3-9 season making us just a little more desperate to fill spots. Even in spite of the latter point, I think that the class looks pretty solid so far. We've got our QB for next year along with a bunch of solid to great players. There's some question marks, but they wouldn't get offers if the coaches didn't see something, anything. Plus, I really think that we have some killer linemen coming in next year. It will be quite intriguing to see how their talent works in a RichRod team as opposed to how we've seen it work on a Carr team.
Also, "We stand on the fuck that"? I don't know what that means but I like that sentence.
I love this: Jim Tressel was just an upgrade from John Cooper.
Uh, yeah. 6-1 vs Michigan, five in a row. Played in three national championship games. Won one of them.
I've been trying to make the point for years that OSU had the better program in the '90s (97 aside). UM was beating them--but more often than not staggering into the OSU game with 2,3, or 4 losses. All Tressel had to do was get Ohio talent, GET the Michigan rivalry--and Michigan was dead in the water.
So now we have hired a guy who insists that the Ohio State game is, "just another game."
Dude, I don't give a crap how RR views the OSU game. As long as he starts beating OSU, that's all that matters. He's a winner, and wants to beat every team he plays. It's not like he sees OSU on the schedule and goes "well i don't care if we beat them, it's just another game." His comments about OSU game actually are the contrary; they highlight how badly he wants to win EVERY game. Did you not see him on the sidelines last year?
You know what, why don't you tell us why you really don't like Rich Rodriguez: You's a racialist. May Brian himself slam you down with the ban hammer!
All I'm saying is why the other coaches like Tressel didn't need to clean house when they came in. I'm saying nothing about how well they have done or not done. Tressel was simply a better coach than Cooper with a similar philosophy. I don't think he changed much at all about how OSU was recruiting or playing.
That's what I meant by upgrade. There is a difference between an upgrade and what M did by hiring Rodriguez.
//There's also a big difference between an upgrade and anything that Notre Dame has done in ~12 years
I just wonder why people bother coming onto this blog, one that has spent countless hours analyzing the bare cupboards left at the end of the Carr era and has obsessed about Sheridan equaling death and the need for an actual quarterback and one that has agonized over the lack of experience on the offensive line and the linebacker corp etc. etc., and after reading all of that still decide to post something like this.
I mean, yeah, the Capital One bowl was great and we all went home and dreamed sweet dreams of what our spread offense would look like. But guess what? From that Capital One team, you lose the star quarterback, the star running back, the two leading wide receivers, and the left tackle who became the number one overall draft pick that year.
What, were you expecting a national championship last year?
We all sat through this last painful year and now have to wait it out through a long summer desperately looking for some sign of recovery only to be met with news of three star recruits. So I understand people are freaking out.
But we all saw the flashes of what will be in the Wisconsin and Minnesota games and even the Notre Dame game (which, by the way, you're right: Weiss = asshole). And Martavious Odoms was a three star and yet was our leading receiver last year too and had legitimate moments where he actually looked pretty damned good. I know everyone hates having to be patient but my advice would be to just chill, let Rich Rod and Barwis do what they know how to do, and then try to enjoy the actual football season once it rolls around.
No mention of the terms spread n' shred, EEEEEEEEEE BARWIS, open-field nightmares, respect for the economy, basketball on grass, electron-sized quarkbacks, hybrid spinning deathbackers or Will "THE MOTHERFUCKING OTTER" Campbell?
You're not a real Michigan Man.
BTW, "guys who can go out on a date with a coed and not even think about buying a condom" LOL
Hey, how many times are people gonna bring up Martavius Odoms and his "7 catches, 39 yards" stats to prove some sort of point about three-star recruits?
And what is this Notre Dame game stuff? They pounded Michigan. I mean, you lose the game 28-24 and you can say, "A bounce here, a bribed official there." But come on, 35-17? Sorry.
And do you know who REALLY needs to "chill?" The guys whose panties get all bunched up whenever someone dares to question the Great Rich Rodriguez.
I'll tellz ya what: I never really liked Carr. But if Rich Rodriguez is 122-40 with a nayshinal championship 13 years from now, I'll eat my foot and say that was a helluva career.
Why are you so ANGRY?
I'm pretty confident that he'll do better than 122-40 and one national championship 13 years from now.