Home
i'm an actor, not a reactor

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Glossary
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
    • Hail to Old Blue
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Hoops Depth Chart by Class
    • 2017 Recruiting Board
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • MGoFlickr
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • User-Curated HOF
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
  • Schedule/Tix
    • Future Schedules (wiki)
    • Ticket spreadsheet
Home Diaries Rasmus's blog

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @Misopogon (Seth)
  • @Aeschnepp (Adam)
  • @BISB
  • @EUpchurchPhoto
  • @FullOfTwitt (Fuller)
  • Hail to the Victors 2016
  • MGoFacebook
  • MGoPodcast
  • WTKA
  • Instagram

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • MMMGoBlueBBQ
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Zone
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • Illinois Loyalty
    • Illinois Baseball Report
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
  • Nebraska
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Max
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Hoop Math
    • John Gasaway
    • Luke Winn/Sports Illustrated
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg (Class of 2016)
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Matt Hinton/Grantland
    • Football Study Hall
    • Football Outsiders
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
    • CFB Stats
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Ann Arbor Observer
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • Bless You Boys
      • The Daily Fungo
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
    • Red Wings
      • Winging It In Motown
      • On The Wings
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Beveled Guilt

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • This Month in MGoBlog History - April 2008: No Spring Game at the Big House! Hockey loses to ND in the Frozen Four!
    Maize.Blue Wagner - 1 day ago
  • Thirteen unlucky minutes (TL;DNR-This is a bit of rant about the refs)
    docwhoblocked - 2 weeks ago
  • Fan Satisfaction Index End of Season Bball Survey
    OneFootIn - 2 weeks ago
  • How likely are we to revert to the mean?
    Bo Glue - 2 weeks ago
  • It's time to avenge Villanova's 1985 NCAA tourney upset over Michigan
    Communist Football - 2 weeks ago
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • This Month in MGoBlog History - April 2008: No Spring Game at the Big House! Hockey loses to ND in the Frozen Four!
    Maize.Blue Wagner - 439 views
  • This Month in MGoBlog History - March 2008: Pryor isn't coming, Boren has left, and some academic fraud allegations sprinkled in
    Maize.Blue Wagner - 215 comments
  • 14 Months Ago: The Fire Beilein Threads.
    stephenrjking - 91 comments
  • Thirteen unlucky minutes (TL;DNR-This is a bit of rant about the refs)
    docwhoblocked - 61 comments
  • It's time to avenge Villanova's 1985 NCAA tourney upset over Michigan
    Communist Football - 11 comments
  • This Month in MGoBlog History - April 2008: No Spring Game at the Big House! Hockey loses to ND in the Frozen Four!
    Maize.Blue Wagner - 5 comments

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • OT: Whose shirt did I buy? Also, thanks for the shirt
    30 replies
  • OT - LSU Spring Game Currently on ESPN/SEC Network
    24 replies
  • Baseball's win streak at 19 after 11th inning walkoff over PSU
    13 replies
  • OT: RIP Verne Troyer
    51 replies
  • OT: Record Store Day 2018!
    31 replies
  • Notre Dame Spring Game: analysis from M n B, video
    103 replies
  • Michigan Mercies Maryland, Softball Wins 12-1 (5 inn.)
    16 replies
  • Michigan Football Hype Video 2018-19 Season
    26 replies
  • Nebraska football
    103 replies
  • Lacrosse Falls to #7 Hopkins 10-9
    23 replies
  • This Week/Weekend's Football Visitors
    42 replies
  • OT: NFL draft prospects with (state of) Michigan (but not UM/MSU) ties
    8 replies
  • Michigan basketball pursuing Pitt guard transfer Marcus Carr
    21 replies
  • Schembechler Hall practice field ripped out (photos)
    48 replies
  • The Evolution of Commerce - What Industries are Dying, What's Thriving?
    145 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • OT: Whose shirt did I buy? Also, thanks for the shirt
    30 replies
  • OT: Record Store Day 2018!
    31 replies
  • Notre Dame Spring Game: analysis from M n B, video
    103 replies
  • Baseball's win streak at 19 after 11th inning walkoff over PSU
    13 replies
  • OT: RIP Verne Troyer
    51 replies
  • Lacrosse Falls to #7 Hopkins 10-9
    23 replies
  • Michigan Football Hype Video 2018-19 Season
    26 replies
  • OT - LSU Spring Game Currently on ESPN/SEC Network
    24 replies
  • Nebraska football
    103 replies
  • Schembechler Hall practice field ripped out (photos)
    48 replies
  • This Week/Weekend's Football Visitors
    42 replies
  • Michigan Mercies Maryland, Softball Wins 12-1 (5 inn.)
    16 replies
  • RIP OT: Former First Lady Barbara Bush
    58 replies
  • The Evolution of Commerce - What Industries are Dying, What's Thriving?
    145 replies
  • OT: NFL draft prospects with (state of) Michigan (but not UM/MSU) ties
    8 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • Belleville coach Jermain Crowell mad at UM again
    244 replies
  • Police investigating Elysee Mbem-Bosse for death threat against Harbaugh
    224 replies
  • "Being Not-Rich at UM" Guide
    168 replies
  • Buckle Up
    159 replies
  • Scouting the Enemy: Ohio State QBs are Good
    158 replies
  • Semi-OT: What sports would you fix?
    158 replies
  • Elysee Mbem-Bosse disturbing tweets
    157 replies
  • Whats the Best Way to Make Flight Arrangements?
    149 replies
  • The Evolution of Commerce - What Industries are Dying, What's Thriving?
    145 replies
  • FB new Nutrition plan under Herbert is well received by players
    132 replies
  • OT - Jalen Hurts possibly looking to transfer
    121 replies
  • What past season would you have liked to see an Amazon-style documentary on?
    121 replies
  • OT: best-selling musical artists by state of birth
    120 replies
  • No additional protest of Shea Patterson appeal by Ole Miss
    113 replies
  • NCAA changes rules to restrict James Doug Foug's super power
    107 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››

Support MGoBlog: buy stuff at Amazon

What is the alignment if Michigan-OSU are not together?

By Rasmus — August 23rd, 2010 at 6:43 PM — 75 comments
Filed under:
  • Big Ten
  • divisions
  • football

Try to do this yourselves. When I do it, I can only find one configuration that works for me at all:

  • "East" -- PSU, OSU, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
  • "West" -- Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska

I really think this is what the powers that be have in mind. Think about it -- if you separate OSU from Michigan then you pretty much have to keep Wisconsin in the division. Nebraska has to stay with Iowa, so it's done. The divisions are in fact geographically contiguous. All major rivalries are preserved within the divisions except one, or maybe two if you count MSU-PSU.

One problem with this is the reality that the winner of OSU-PSU will almost always play for the conference championship. How often will one of the others break that stranglehold? Twice a decade? Less? You're taking the two programs from the largest and richest football recruiting states in the Big Ten, both without in-state conference rivals, and isolating them in a division by themselves. Yeah, that will work!

What are they thinking?

I'm going to guess that they are thinking that this will create a competitive championship game every year. They are right -- the champions of the West are likely to be a very good team. But they will almost always have more losses than the East champion, due to more parity within their division.

While it's fun, the point of the game is not to knock OSU out of the national championship every once in a while. That is so 1969. The point is to beat them and not just go to the Rose Bowl, but go onto the national championship ourselves. These divisions work against that ultimate goal. Indeed, any Big Ten divisional alignment that separates Michigan and Ohio State has this same fatal flaw.

I guess Dave Brandon would argue that the primary goal of conference play is to win the Big Ten championship, no matter how the Wolverines get there. That's true. But to play for the BCS championship, most years Michigan will have to win three games against OSU/PSU. Strength of schedule might allow us one conference loss along the way if the SEC champion isn't in the same predicament. That's likely to be the new reality, folks. Get used to it.

  • Rasmus's blog
  • Login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:01 PM
#2
Blue in sec country
Joined: 07/09/2010
MGoPoints: 1319
That isn't even close to a

That isn't even close to a competitive balance. What you've created is the big 12 divisions. The South who beats up on each other making it more difficult to stay in the NC picture and then you've got the North who plays 1 game each year and coasts to the championship game. I would think they would balance them more than you've come up with. If not I for one will be very disappointed.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:06 PM
#3
VaBeach Wolverine
VaBeach Wolverine's picture
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 1294
West

I really dont see this alignment happening because your West is way too strong.The Indiana/Illinois schools will have to be split in the East considering these are traditionally the weakest schools. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:11 PM
#4
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56291
One problem with this is the

One problem with this is the reality that the winner of OSU-PSU will almost always play for the conference championship.

Bingo.  And there's our new marquee conference game.  It will be played at the end of the season, with title implications for one or both teams virtually every year.  (Sound familiar?)  For PSU, it's everything they've ever wanted.  For OSU, it won't be exactly the same as playing the UM right now (less history involved, obviously), but it's a pretty close substiute.  Ten years from now, OSU fans will be focused primarily on beating PSU.   Kids that grow up in Ohio will come to look at PSU as the natural alternative to OSU. 

And for us?  Our end-of-the-year rivalry becomes either MSU or Nebraska.  This is absolutely a losing proposition for us.   Brandon is a fool to want to go along with this. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:34 PM
(Reply to #4) #5
M-Dog
M-Dog's picture
Joined: 07/06/2008
MGoPoints: 147117
I used to feel sorry for PSU for having to play MSU

the last game of the season in a fake rivalry game, while we played OSU in The Game for all of the glory on National TV.

Now I feel sorry for us.  PSU just stole our rivalry game and gave us their fake rivalry game.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:31 PM
(Reply to #4) #6
KSmooth
KSmooth's picture
Joined: 11/14/2009
MGoPoints: 1860
I have to wonder if maybe

I have to wonder if maybe you have stumbled on the real, hidden reason behind this: Could it be that the Big Ten brass have come to the conclusion that Michigan's glory days are over, and that the Wolverines will not return to the top echelon of the conference?  If they did, they might want to build up an OSU-PSU rivalry.

It sounds crazy, but it would explain a few things...

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:56 PM
(Reply to #6) #7
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56291
I think that's entirely

I think that's entirely possible.  The reality is that we are more dependent on out-of-state recruits than either OSU or PSU are.  Nebraska is even moreso.  And while we've lost to OSU six in a row (ugh - that hurts just to type it), PSU beat them in '05 and '08.   If the conference truly wanted competitive balance, it'd split up the two schools with the biggest natural recruiting advantage - but it probably has recognized, from watching the examples of the SEC and ACC, that you don't split up rivalries.  If the Big Ten has (privately) decided that its two biggest commodities are OSU and PSU, then their actions would make a lot more sense.   

For OSU, in the long run, this might not really affect their competitiveness much.  For us, this is could pose major problems down the road.  We're in danger of losing arguably the highest-profile rivalry in the country (a great recruiting drawing card), with a team from a talent-rich state, and we'll have to make do with either playing our mediocre in-state rival or a team from a talent-poor state (Nebraska).  We could lose our status as the de facto alternative to OSU for Ohio kids.  Brandon should be going absolutely ballistic over this instead of rolling over.   

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 2:28 AM
(Reply to #6) #8
Kennyvr1
Kennyvr1's picture
Joined: 07/28/2010
MGoPoints: 1322
That doesn't make sense

If they thought that then why would they care if Mich played Ohio State in the last game of the season because the likelihood of them playing again the next week wouldn't be high??

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 3:06 AM
(Reply to #38) #9
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56291
The last week of the season

The last week of the season is Rivalry Week.  That's where you want to showcase your biggest rivalry.  And you want your biggest rivalry to be intradivisional, not cross-divisional, so that the game not only determines bragging rights but also affects the division standings.   

If the Big Ten is convinced that PSU-OSU would make a better rivalry than UM-OSU, then they'll want them to play then. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 5:14 AM
(Reply to #39) #10
duffman is thru...
duffman is thrusting in your direction's picture
Joined: 05/20/2010
MGoPoints: 1059
Dude, you're crazy

This sounds plausible at first, but the more I think about it it reminds me of UFO files on History channel. Which is a terrible show. Seems too much like a conspiracy theory.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 7:53 AM
(Reply to #39) #11
MgoBLUEfromDC
MgoBLUEfromDC's picture
Joined: 07/28/2010
MGoPoints: 258
The Break-Up

This is wierd, it is sounding like we are "breaking up" with OSU and she is already flirting with someone else.  I don't care if OSU/PSU would make a great couple!

I take it Nebraska is our rebound.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 1:45 PM
(Reply to #46) #12
Anonymosity
Anonymosity's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2480
We'll probably end up making

We'll probably end up making Nebraska dress like OSU, and then calling Nebraska "Buckeyes" when we're doin' it.  Nebraska will brush it off, but deep down will really be hurt.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 7:23 PM
(Reply to #46) #13
M-Dog
M-Dog's picture
Joined: 07/06/2008
MGoPoints: 147117
Unfortunately,

it looks like our rebound will be that psycho stalker MSU.

We let her do us a couple times here and there, and now everyone thinks we should be "together".

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 9:56 AM
(Reply to #38) #14
KSmooth
KSmooth's picture
Joined: 11/14/2009
MGoPoints: 1860
Fair Question, Easy Answer

If this is right -- big if -- then the official explanation would be PR spin designed to pacify Michigan supporters, and maybe Brandon himself.  Don't think for a second that these people aren't capable of a little white lie...

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 12:53 PM
(Reply to #6) #15
maizenbluenc
maizenbluenc's picture
Joined: 07/21/2009
MGoPoints: 7931
WTF is a matter with you new people?

This isn't based on the last three years of Michigan football. You seem to forget that four years ago The Game was a 1 vs 2 game, that was very close.

Big time recruits are sitting out there now, watching, and waiting to see if we turn the corner enough that they can commit to a stable situation with a national stage and the potential to win.

This whole decision is about money, and competitive balance. The last Big Ten team to win the National Championship is Ohio State. The one before that is Michigan. Then there is Nebraska and Penn State. These four have to be split up, and yes the distance between Penn State and Nebraska is an issue. Then throw in the added hype and revenue of that second Game that we all wish we had in 2006.

Me personally: I am all for OSU and Michigan playing for one division on the last day, and PSU and Nebraska playing for the other. Then the winners of both playing for the championship most years.

That said, if I were anyone else staring at being in a division with both Ohio State and Michigan, I am screaming my head off about the unfairness, and selling "it won't really impact Tha Game" and the "added revenue" as hard as I can.

Pardon my salty language, but fuck this "Michigan's glory days are over" bull shit. This is about money, competitive fairness to the other guys, and distance for PSU.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:32 PM
#16
M-Dog
M-Dog's picture
Joined: 07/06/2008
MGoPoints: 147117
Every year Michigan will have to play

3-4 historically strong teams - OSU, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Iowa - while schools like PSU will only have to play 1-2 - OSU, and a possible protected rivalry with Iowa or MSU.

The only way to achieve "Competitive Balance" would be to move Wisconsin or Iowa to the "East", which creates its own set of problems.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 5:16 AM
(Reply to #7) #17
duffman is thru...
duffman is thrusting in your direction's picture
Joined: 05/20/2010
MGoPoints: 1059
Didn't the Big Ten come out

Didn't the Big Ten come out recently and say that geography won't play a big role in divisions?

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:43 PM
#18
caup
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1702
whoa, not balanced at all

You've got 5 of the 7 (traditionally) strongest teams in one division and only TWO (OSU and PSU) in another division with 4 tomato cans!  This would be the WORST!

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 8:12 PM
#19
KBLOW
KBLOW's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 9762
  I don't think this

 

I don't think this scenario will play out.  I truly can't imagine The Big Ten being stupid enough to lump NW, Indiana and Illinois all together.  

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:13 PM
#20
Vasav
Vasav's picture
Joined: 12/13/2009
MGoPoints: 3715
That's not how I see it

I think Northwestern-Illinois get split as well, which is no major loss.

I think they're going for:

UMich-Nebraska, MSU-NW, Indiana-Purdue

OSU-PSU, Iowa-Illinois, Minny-Wiscy

The dashed pairs are the last weekend rivalry games.

I still hate it, but it does succeed in their stated goals. Minus preserving the greatest rivalry in sport.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:25 PM
(Reply to #11) #21
ballertim87
ballertim87's picture
Joined: 08/05/2010
MGoPoints: 484
that seems about wrong

sorry, but I think that's way off. They're not going to throw Nebraska into a pool of 5 other eastern teams, without Iowa, Wiscy or Minny. Iowa-Illinois!?!?

I do agree with you that Ill-NW might get split, that you hate the split you think they are going for, and that Mich-OSU is the greatest rivalry in sport. Hopefully they don't destroy it be separating them!!!

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:29 PM
(Reply to #14) #22
Vasav
Vasav's picture
Joined: 12/13/2009
MGoPoints: 3715
Good Points

I know Illini consider Iowa to be a major rival right now, which is why I put that. But anything else splits up Iowa-Minnesota-Wisconsin, which to me would say the new Big Ten cares nothing about the brand of our historic rivalries

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:14 PM
#23
ballertim87
ballertim87's picture
Joined: 08/05/2010
MGoPoints: 484
A big...

problem that I keep coming across when forming divisions (whether OSU and UM are together or separate) is the seeming necessity to keep Nebraska, Iowa, and Minnesota together, which forces you to keep Wisconsin, as well.

Nebraska and Minn already have the most history, Nebraska v Iowa is a no-brainer (The Corn Bowl), and Wisconsin MUST play Minnesota, and really wants to form a big time, end of the year rivalry game with Nebraska (Bielema, Alvarez spoke about it also).

So, I got to thinking... if we are dividing the "big 4" in half, the decision must be made as to "who goes" to the other side between Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Iowa. It probably has to be Iowa, they lack any geographical rivalry with those 3 worth saving year to year. So, a protected cross-over with Nebraska would be a must. Also, if Mich and OSU happened to split and PSU was with Mich, then Iowa would continue their recent rivalry with the Lions.

If the big 4 do not get divided, splitting geographically with OSU, PSU, and Mich together, you get the other 3 of the "big 6" in the other division with Minnesota.  Also, you get to keep UI-NW and IU-PU together.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 PM
(Reply to #12) #24
Vasav
Vasav's picture
Joined: 12/13/2009
MGoPoints: 3715
Actually, I think Wiscy would get screwed

Nebraska-Iowa, UM-MSU, Minny-Illinois

Wiscy-NW, IU-Purdue, OSU-PSU

Crossovers: UM-OSU, Minny-Wiscy, Illinois-NW, MSU-IU, Iowa-Purdue (by default), PSU-Nebraska

Still sucks

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:22 PM
#25
bklein09
bklein09's picture
Joined: 08/24/2009
MGoPoints: 7209
I have seen this split

I have seen this split suggested by several others now, and I have to say that it is absolutely absurd.

Jim Delany said that the number one factor in divisional splits would be competitive balance. 

I don't see who anyone could look at this and say it is balanced. It would be a blantantly obvious money-driven decision, and I have a hard time believing that Delany could sell it to anyone as something else. 

What I don't understand is this, they can split up the biggest rivalry in the history of the conference/sports, but they can't split up Wisconsin/Iowa/Nebraska? Can someone explain this to me?

I am not too worried about this at the moment because I honestly can't believe it could actually happen. I'm in wait and see mode.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:25 PM
#26
bklein09
bklein09's picture
Joined: 08/24/2009
MGoPoints: 7209
And if this does happen at

And if this does happen at some point, I will instantly become a fan of further expansion in the hopes that the system would be revamped again.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:34 PM
#27
sman13
Joined: 05/06/2010
MGoPoints: 212
Even Rivals...

agrees. Check out what was posted on the College Football Home page:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=AsYYAvF3BOrfLiDF05HulIgc...

Everyone except Brandon thinks this is a bad idea. Someone needs to knock some sense into that man.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:45 PM
#28
Prestige Worldwide
Joined: 03/11/2010
MGoPoints: 97
Don't forget Notre Dame.

And PSU every two years. Two years on, two years off. We could play 5 or more top 25 teams every year.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:57 PM
#29
cadmus2166
cadmus2166's picture
Joined: 01/04/2010
MGoPoints: 1233
The alignment

The alignment of the Big Ten if Michigan and Ohio St. aren't in the same divisions, is purely chaotic evil.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:10 PM
(Reply to #20) #30
KBLOW
KBLOW's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 9762
Alignment

More like Lawful Evil. However stupid and harmful we think the divisions are with UM and OSU separated it is still a system with a plan. Think Devil (LE) vs (CE) Demon.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 12:42 AM
(Reply to #23) #31
Blue in Seattle
Blue in Seattle's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1694
Oh No you didn't

Did you just go all D&D on our dumb asses?!?

KBLOW you are my new hero,

although, once I start drinking and blogging I pick a new hero every hour,

so there's that...

 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 10:12 AM
(Reply to #23) #32
caup
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1702
OMG

a D&D ref. haha. nice.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 11:56 AM
(Reply to #23) #33
cadmus2166
cadmus2166's picture
Joined: 01/04/2010
MGoPoints: 1233
Very Nice

I've been away from D&D too long, so very good reminder. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:06 PM
#34
Rasmus
Rasmus's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 2201
Well, you all have made me feel better

I had convinced myself that what I outlined is what they are going to do. Now I have my doubts. Thanks, I think!

For me, there is just no good way to do it if you split up Michigan and OSU. It always degenerates into absurdity once you start trying to manufacture competitive balance.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:09 PM
#35
JTGoBlue
JTGoBlue's picture
Joined: 08/31/2009
MGoPoints: 4241
The considerations that will be used for divisional alignment

The considerations:

1. Competitive balance

2. Traditional rivalries

3. Geography

 It seems most speculations about this have geography and rivalries in mind at the start, equally with competitive balance.  I think #1 will be weighted  much more heavily than #2 and #3.

 If we group the teams in three tiers considering competitive balance:

 Tier 1:

Michigan, OSU, PSU, Nebraska

 Tier 2:

Iowa, Wisconsin, MSU, Purdue

 Tier 3:

Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Minnesota

 So, splitting these up, and now considering traditional rivalries and then geography:

 Notes:

1. Michigan/OSU are headed to separate divisions and will play a cross rivalry game; OSU/PSU and Michigan/Nebraska are two huge rivalries in the making.

2. There will be at least three cross-division games, eventually four.

North Division:

Michigan, Nebraska, MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern

South Division:

OSU, PSU, Iowa, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana

Now, rivalries needing a cross-division game:

Illinois-Northwestern (Sweet Sioux Tomahawk/Land of Lincoln Trophy)

Indiana-Michigan State (Old Brass Spittoon)

Iowa-Minnesota (Floyd of Rosedale)

Iowa-Wisconsin (Heartland Trophy)

Michigan-Ohio State

Michigan State-Penn State (Land Grant Trophy)

Minnesota-Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell)

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:53 PM
(Reply to #22) #36
Kilgore Trout
Kilgore Trout's picture
Joined: 02/20/2009
MGoPoints: 3351
Agreed

If I had to bet, I think you've got it.  They were talking about this alignment on 1130 this afternoon.  It really makes the most sense if you're going to split UM and OSU up.  People are stuck on the whole Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota together thing, but if they're willing to split up UM and OSU, those three can compromise too.  Basically, Iowa is not going to get to play Nebraska, Minnesota, and Iowa every year.  It just doesn't work.  

So "rivalry week" at the end of the season would end up being...

Michigan - Nebraska, Minnesota - Wisconsin, MSU - Northwestern, Indiana - Purdue, OSU - PSU, and Iowa - Illinois.  

If all goes back to "normal" you could theoretically have de facto semi-finals in the UM/Neb and OSU/PSU games.  

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 1:16 AM
(Reply to #22) #37
Blue in Seattle
Blue in Seattle's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1694
you nailed it

while obsessing about this last night I analyzed the last 17 years and averaged out the final standings for all Big Ten teams.  For Nebraska I used their all time winning percentage, which puts them third (they have a better all time average than PSU)

I had a chart and everything, but now you've ruined that.

Seriously though, this is how I see it as well, with the exception that either there is two weeks between the last regular game and the championship (which means no week off in the middle) or they schedule in a Hawaii like game just before the championship.

I think that people greatly underestimate the amount of hate between Ohio and Michigan, and that it started before they played football.  Which is a long long time ago, since the first game between these two teams was played on October 16th, 1897.

PSU-OSU is NOT going to eclipse THE GAME,

I suggest everyone go to Amazon and grab a copy of "The 100-Yard War", and then you'll realize that not only do we Hate Ohio State, but as the Leaders and Best, we were the first bastards, and I quote from "The 100 Yard War"

"No one at Regents Field on October 16th, 1897 could have possibly known that the first meeting between these two football teams would inaugurate a series of unforgettable games, one of the greatest rivalries in sports, and a century of drama that would play out over the next hundred years and beyond. But what the fans who packed into the 4-year-old athletic field down on South State Street did know was this: Michigan kicked Ohio State's ass."

and how badly did we kick their 19th century asses?

"[at halftime] The game was already in the bag at 34-0 [TD's were 4 points, then]...when OSU came out in the second half, they were in for an even bigger surprise: disrespect.

Michigan not only took out their starting players, but they proceeded to punt the ball on first down on just about every possession.  The next day the newspaper justified Michigan's actions by saying they needed to give their defense some practice...OSU managed nothing more than a 5-yard gain in the rest of the game..the final score was the same as the halftime tally: 34-0"

And you guys probably thought Woody started the hate with, "Coach, with the score 48-14 why did you go for 2 points?"

"Because I couldn't go for 3"

yeah, you guys are probably right, the tradition that lasted for over 100 years is all over because we're not in the same division.

oh yeah, and get off my lawn!

 

 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 3:11 AM
(Reply to #37) #38
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56291
PSU-OSU is NOT going to

PSU-OSU is NOT going to eclipse THE GAME

If those two teams are in the same division, and they play on the last week of the season, it absolutely will - and much faster that you'd ever think. 

A big part of the tradition of UM-OSU involves the two teams deciding each others' fate on that last Saturday of the season.  If we're in separate divisions, that goes out the window.  A loss in a cross-division game doesn't matter if you clean up within your division.  OTOH, a loss to a divisional rival can be devastating.  Consequently, those become your most important games.  Cross-divisional games are almost nonconference games.  They simply don't mean as much.  We'll be playing OSU for pride.  PSU will play them for the division title.   

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 8:08 AM
(Reply to #40) #39
bigmc6000
Joined: 01/12/2009
MGoPoints: 1949
It's like watching the Big 12 unfold....

OU-Nebraksa turned into mush and nothingness (not because they didn't play every year but because it, ultimately, didn't mean much since they were in different divisions) and the OU-UT game grew to, arguably, the biggest rivalry in CFB (yeah, I know, if we'd just win a few it wouldn't be but over the past 5+ years that game has meant more, sadly, to the national landscape than OSU-UM has and, as they say, the mob is fickle so 5+ years is about all they can handle).  Right now we're the equiavlent of UT-A&M, if you move that game to seperate divisions it won't mean much of anything because you can't ruin each others seasons and, ultimately, hate is one of  the things that makes a rivalry strong.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 2:17 PM
(Reply to #49) #40
a2husker
a2husker's picture
Joined: 12/20/2009
MGoPoints: 152
I disagree

It's the time off that killed NU/OU, not the divisional setup. Think about it: with a two season "off" rotation, that's three calendar years between games. It's hard to keep a good frothy hate going over that kind of time span. You would be correct to point out that the divisional setup caused the time off, but being in separate divisions was really a very secondary point.

What also didn't help was that each year since the inception of the Big 12, with the exception of 2000 and 2001, one of NU or OU was terrible - that had a bit of a dampening effect, too.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 5:31 AM
(Reply to #37) #41
duffman is thru...
duffman is thrusting in your direction's picture
Joined: 05/20/2010
MGoPoints: 1059
Amen Brother

Amen Brother

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 8:30 AM
(Reply to #22) #42
GunnersApe
GunnersApe's picture
Joined: 11/19/2009
MGoPoints: 6663
also agree/lesser of two evils

But now add ND/Missouri/Syracuse/Rutgers.

 

So now naturally ND and Missouri needs to go in the South and Penn St has another temper tantrum because North should get Rutgers/Syracuse.

 

I'm still holding out hope of a straight geographical split with possible upcomming Super Conference.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:13 PM
#43
Edward Khil
Edward Khil's picture
Joined: 03/06/2010
MGoPoints: 999
Geographical Contiguousness

Geographical contiguousness is a distant third consideration, from everything Delany and the ADs have been saying.  Competitive balance is going to shift back and forth through the years.  But start with splitting the Big Four, and splitting Wisconsin and Iowa.  MSU is with Michigan; Gophers on the other side (making the Jug game that much more sweet when it happens).  Finally, you put Purdue and Indiana on one side, and Illinois and Northwestern on the other (a nod to geography).  If you don't worry much about contiguousness, there are a lot of ways to plan for competitive balance.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:30 PM
#44
chally
Joined: 11/25/2008
MGoPoints: 510
Just split the rivalries

 

If all of the league's primary rivalries are set up as protected cross-division games, the divisions can look pretty even.

 

Michigan - OSU

MSU - Penn State

Nebraska - Iowa

Wisconsin - Minnesota

Illinois - Northwestern

Indiana - Purdue

 

This keeps all but one existing permanent rivalry (Nebraska - Iowa replaces Wisconsin - Iowa) and provides plenty of competitive balance.  

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 10:48 PM
(Reply to #25) #45
Snidely Doo Rash
Joined: 10/17/2008
MGoPoints: 248
In a word. Yes

I came to the same conclusion and posted after so I wanted to chime in and point you.   Neb being the NKOTB has no say so k no w how.  They need to get spanked and spangled hard the year/decade they enter the conference.  Iowa and Wisconsin can see this in a plus in different ways--Iowa gets a marquis matchup and Wisco gets the Hopkins stare and waits for the coaches command to devour the cuptakes.  Minnesota with its new stadium should have something to say about this thanks to Belimna.  And I recall, this game is for the axe which is my favorite one that's not a MI tilt.  Go Gophers unless it's us. 

As you were, play ball. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:34 PM
#46
Edward Khil
Edward Khil's picture
Joined: 03/06/2010
MGoPoints: 999
And This Is The Last Time I'll Post This

But UM and OSU with a protected cross-divisional rivalry on the last weekend of the regular season is the way to go.  A rematch a week later will only happen every 6-8 years at most, and would be sweet when it happens.  But spoiling the others' season by knocking them out of the BTC game would happen much more often.  NOT moving The Game is a no-brainer, or so one would think.

The other season-ending cross-divisional rivalries would be Nebraska-PSU, Iowa-Wisconsin, and after that, who cares?

When Notre Dame joins the Big "Ten," it'll be so much easier, because they'll naturally be slotted in as Michigan's first B10 opponent of the year.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 24th, 2010 at 3:15 AM
(Reply to #26) #47
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56291
Why cross-divisional?  If

Why cross-divisional?  If it's knocking the other team out of the BTC that you're after, you should want the two to be in the same division, so that only one can advance.  If we're in two separate divisions and we play the last week, a lot of times the Game won't affect the standings at all, since all the intradivisional games would have already been played.  Division games are where it's at.  That's where rivalries belong. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:35 PM
#48
ballertim87
ballertim87's picture
Joined: 08/05/2010
MGoPoints: 484
if ...

OSU/Mich split, then I have:

OSU, PSU, Iowa, Illinois, Indy, Purdue

Mich, Neb, Wisky, MSU, Minn, NW

If OSU/Mich stay together:

Mich, OSU, Iowa, MSU, Indy, Purdue

Neb, PSU, Wisky, Minn, Illinois, NW (essentially, you could mix and match the 4 Indiana and Illinois schools, 2 here and 2 there...)

one thing that has been missed by a few people when thinking of Tier 1, Tier 2, etc is that Iowa and Wisconsin stand alone as underneath the big 4 and above everyone else, so splitting them would be necessary for the best "competitive balance"

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:39 PM
#49
Edward Khil
Edward Khil's picture
Joined: 03/06/2010
MGoPoints: 999
The Hullabaloo Is Being Heard All The Way to Hollywood!

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100823/SPORTS0201/8230396/1004/SPORTS/U-M--OSU-fans-join-forces-to-keep--The-Game--at-season-s-end

Join the Facebook group "Don't Mess with the Ohio State/Michigan Game!"

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 25th, 2010 at 12:51 PM
(Reply to #28) #50
bjk
bjk's picture
Joined: 11/27/2009
MGoPoints: 3986
I went there.

They have email addresses for Delaney, Brandon, Coleman and Gee and Smith (OSU). I sent my emails. Does this call for picketing in the streets? This really isn't my province, since I'm living in Atlanta, GA. Is this change in The Game all really likely? I'm disturbed.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:18 PM
#51
joeyb
joeyb's picture
Joined: 10/12/2008
MGoPoints: 14048
Here's how I've imagined it.

Here's how I've imagined it. Form 4 pods of 3 (just for strength purposes)

Michigan OSU PSU Nebraska
Minnesota Illinois Iowa Wisconsin
MSU NW Indiana Purdue

These are for the most part based on the ranking of the schools, but some of them were moved around a bit to try to accommodate rivalries. Now, group any two pods together and you should have relatively equal divisions. Each team can then play one cross divisional rivalry from the same row.

Michigan, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota, MSU, Purdue
OSU, PSU, Iowa, Illinois, NW, Indiana

Michigan-OSU
Nebraska-PSU
Wisconsin-Illinois
Minnesota-Iowa
MSU-NW
Purdue-Indiana

Then when they go to 9 games, you play the last cross-divisional game in the same row

Michigan-PSU
OSU-Nebraska
Wisconsin-Iowa
Minnesota-Illinois
MSU-Indiana
NW-Purdue

I personally like putting the Michigan and OSU pods together, but any of the 3 combinations will work.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »
Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.