This ought to be a great thread.
no, YOU'RE off topic
This ought to be a great thread.
First of all, there just isnt that much talent in the state, consistently. Michigan is NOT one of the 5 best states. For years, starting with Moeller, Michigan has gone all over the country...it just isn't the problem. Mike Hart was from New York, Chand Henne- pennsylvania, Breston-Penn, Forcier-
Cali.....the real problem is that Carr left the cupboard bare in some spots, and RR is paying the price. In particular the the back seven, ie. linebackers and Db's I, and MANY have be dicussing that since the middle part of this decade.
Michigan has not recruited less under rich rod then Lloyd carr (look at team percentage of players). If you don't think that we recruit in state then I don't know what to tell you and if you think that we are always going to get every player that's also a bit absurd especially since there has never been more parity in the league.
You are setting up unrealistic expectations
I think the OP's point was a little less about getting out recruited overall, but more about us losing battles for stud recruits in the state of Michigan that end up going to places like USC/LSU because those are consistently elite programs.
At the moment, we are not an elite program. We're a decent program with elite history and some big draws with recruits.
You forgot him.
he was a heavy State lean and even they couldn't keep him. He basically quit on Oklahoma because he couldn't beat out Bradford and it wouldn't surprise me if he transfers from State now that he hasn't beat out Cousins.
Johnson didn't come here because he was recruited as a CB and wanted to play WR so take him off your list.
Finally, you're never going to get every player from a State even if you dominate it like OSU does/did Ohio. Can you say Justin Turner, Mike Shaw, Charles Woodson, Desmond Howard, Elvis Grbac, and Greg Ross just to name a few.
That is not why Johnson didn't come here.
A lot of people will give you a hard time for this but I like it, until the last paragraph. Forget any comparisons to Dantonio, RR knows what he's doing. I can't really explain why we should put an emphasis on in-state talent but we should. That's not saying we shouldn't continue to recruit out of state in FL, TX, or CA but we gotta win at home with any big recruits.
Our state does produce some talent, so let's keep it here (and no not at State). I hate seeing teams like USC, LSU, or tOSU with talented Michigan players that could have been helping us.
of in state guys...FOR DECADES....look where that has got them....
Read part II. The stats show it was pretty even until Dantonio arrived.
Please tell me you've emailed Chris Singletary with this information. Or, that you've left an envelope with this post on his windshield. Or, that you've stalked him at the Ann Arbor Panera while waiting to get a panini from White Pony.
Your belief that for Michigan to be elite, it needs to get elite players, is truly ground-breaking.
Make sure you print out this Diary and take it with you to the Purdue game. Then, get in there an hour before the game and start yelling it at the coaching staff.
Most importantly, make sure that Devin Gardner and Ricardo Miller hear you when you're yelling it.
This was well a thought out diary which obviously took some time to put together. If you disagree with it state your opinion. Need need to be a complete douche.
It's hard not knowing what the coaches and recruits are/were thinking. There's a ton of intangible wrt recuiting, which is why is so difficult to evaluate in real time. Even in retrospect getting down all the details of why these guys made their decisions and what could have been is pretty subjective.
Past performance on the field and gets and misses though are at least listable. This is a worthy diary. Thanks for putting it together now and going forward.
Also, the inclusion of Justin Siller in this is comical. Set aside the fact that he was an 07 recruit and was of no value to Carr and the old staff...he gets dismissed from Purdue because of academics, and you think he would've lasted at Michigan?
Keep in mind this was done using 20/20 hindsight. I'm not holding it against the coaches for not trying to sign him. but he put up 343 on us last year!!
One of the biggest losses Michigan suffered (recruiting wise) this decade...most people don't understand the loss of his services cripple Michigan BIGTIME!
No - offers
It's tough to know why UM didn't offer certain kids. It could be they never wanted to come here, academic issues, or UM thought they had a lock on another kid that they did want. Maybe the kid just wanted to get out of the state, away from home. Gordon/Nichol/Dell may have been MSU leans from the start and we just didn't bother.
But The Mighty Godriguez can do NO wrong, and of course, as one guy points out, it's all LLoyd's fault--and will be, probably well into the next century.
I don't get why all the sudden it's not necessary for UM to A) recruit highly-ranked players who have played the positions you recruit the for; and B) Successfully recruit the state of Michigan.
I mean, it's certainly helping OTHER programs to recruit in Michigan--but of course, it's not going to help MICHIGAN to recruit in Michigan. Hmmmmm
Michigan puts out enough talent that would help make the program better--and there is, of course, the measurable intangible of whether these kids bring to the table (and program) traits such as a desire to work harder to develop themselves as players and scholars; passion; knowing the weather and being comfortable playing in the SHIT that is Michigan weather; being leaders on and off he field due to lifelong desires to be Michigan Men--and whatever else might motivate an in-state kid just a lil more.
One thing I wonder about after watching yesterday's fiasco is that, besides being pretty close to being 7-1, this team seems to lack desire for long stretches. Admit it, TDoR--UM has looked, or seemed, to be flat or uninspired quite a bit under The Mighty Godriguez these last two seasons--would more in-state kids mean more passion?
I actually agree with most of what you said. The thing is, it's not just about the state of Michigan. Michigan historically recruits very well in the Midwest as a whole(especially Ohio), a place where Michigan is well understood and in many cases where the M-OSU rivalry is also well understood long before any player decides where he will play.
Right now, our defense (while star ratings may say otherwise) seems to lack the caliber it needs to be upper tier (and, further, elite). There aren't many elite defenses in the country any given year, of course - five or six, maybe - and thus to get there it's very difficult and requires several stud recruits. Elite defenses this year seem to be Virginia Tech, Ohio State, Alabama, TCU (elite by their own right), LSU, Florida. By the end of the year, USC should jump up there somewhere as well just based on sheer talent, although their hiccup against Oregon State has me thinking it's possible that may not happen.
It was Washington this year
'left the cupboard bare', its more that the cupboard was filled with a fine collection of busts and washouts.
Just as an example, the 05 class was ranked #6 according to rivals. That year they land 5 star Kevin Grady rated as the #1 running back out of high school in the country by some publications.....think he's lived up to that billing?
How about this list of 4 and 5 stars from that 05 class that didn't cut it, some of these guys would be 5th year Sr's this year or would have been Sr's last year.....think they'd have made a difference in our depth chart?
Antonio Bass 4star
Eugene Germany 4star
James McKinney 4star
Justin Schifano 4star
Cory Zirbel 4star
Marques Slocumb 4star
Take a look at the 05 and 07 recruiting classes......fully HALF of those classes are gone from Michigan, HALF!!!!... and before you go all 'Rich Rod' ran them off on us. Nearly all of those that left, were injured and had to quit, were kicked off the team etc etc. were gone before Carr retired.
Now look at those that remain and you will see a staggering number of guys who are JR's and Sr's who are buried on the depth chart behind Fr and Soph's and barely contributing.
I cannot imagine very many Michigan recruiting classes have had as many complete busts as the 05 and 07 classes have had. Its really quite staggering the attrition that has taken place.
It doesn't matter where guys are from if they end up being busts.
This post gets at the issue of the "bare cupboard". Lloyd supporters get very huffy when the idea of a dearth of talent is mentioned as part of the explanation for last year's 3-9 and the lack of depth on this year's team. Rich Rod supporters on the other hand refuse to allocate blame to their guy simply because they see a team that lacks depth of talent, especially on defense.
BlueinLansing nails it. We have had an enormous number of busts over the last few recruiting classes and most of these were due to injury or dismissal from the team. I don't blame Carr for the losses of players like Bass and other injury victims. Carr does bear the blame, however, for Jr. and Sr. players who can't beat out freshmen. I think we had some scouting failures in the later years of Carr's tenure.
There are plenty of reasons for our current thinness at many positions, but the key is to make the most out of the opportunities that we have and to recruit the State and nationally to get some depth and avoid the attrition that has plagued us. Hopefully we start to see it next year, but kudos to BlueinLansing for encapsulating the key reason behind our current lack of depth.
Nice diary entry - I'm currently working through Part 2.
I do take issue with this notion that Michigan "lost" some in-state kids they should have kept. No team locks down its state completely, and there are myriad reasons why a kid picks one school over the other. Just because you were born in MI does not mean you are destined to play for UM or MSU. For example, if USC, Florida, or Miami came calling, promising warm weather, good teams, a proven tract record of landing players in the NFL, and attractive coeds, I would certainly consider them. Plus, sometimes there are system issues, preferred positions, etc. that can affect where a guy lands. UM has done a good job identifying kids in the state who want to play for UM and making sure they sign, and have also swayed a number of top-notch talent across the nation to choose UM. You are not going to get everyone, but right now I think this recruiting team is on the right track, and a winning season this year will only help.
I think you're right, it's hard to know who we really "lost" and who we weren't really trying to get. I think the interesting things is the number of guys we were getting as opposed to the number of guys we're getting now.