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USA Today Confirms: Everybody Does It

By colin — August 30th, 2009 at 3:01 PM — 27 comments
Filed under:
  • free press jihad
EDIT: the math below assumed that the Freep was talking about work in excess of the 20 hours.  After a re-read, it's hard to say exactly what the running total is, but it would appear to be FAR LESS than the 44 hour total I came to.  I very much doubt that U-M is working substantially less than the rest of the country.  In this case, I would understand the arithmetic performed as "even if they worked twice as much as the Freep documents", they'd still be about average.

In taking on this particular brouhaha, Dr. Saturday mentions perhaps the most relevant bit of context for the Freep article.  As he says:

"A survey of Division I athletes last year revealed the reality: Time limits or not, big-time football everywhere is a full-time job that consumes vastly more hours than the NCAA officially sanctions -- and has to be, if the competition is putting in the same work. That players will "voluntarily" go above and beyond the proscribed limits is taken for granted."

Now quoting the linked survey:

"Football players in the NCAA's Division I Bowl Subdivision (formerly known as Division I-A) said they spent an average of 44.8 hours a week on their sport — playing games, practicing, training and in the training room — compared with a little less than 40 hours on academics."

So we should in fact be able to determine exactly how far above and beyond the average Michigan footballers train under Rodriguez.  According to the Freep article, Michigan footballers played in excess of the NCAA maximum (20 hours) in the following manner:

"With three hours on Saturday and a full day on Sunday, players tallied about 12 hours on those two days. They were off Monday. Players said they would spend an additional three to four hours with the team on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday afternoons, bringing the weekly total to 21- 24 hours."

Which brings the absolute total to 20 + 24 = 44 hours per week.  And from the USA Today survey, we know the average is ~45 hours per week.  While this doesn't exactly settle the question of whether this is right or why Michigan players are going to the press, it's clear the Freep didn't do its job.  The proper frame for this is would absolutely be to cite prior investigations, like SEMO and SDSU and, if it existed, a massive survey of D-1A college football players.  Clearly, the Freep would have no way of knowing if these things existed.

The major issue is settled.  The real questions now are

A) Why are our players going to the media and anonymously at that?
B) Is there a legitimate concern here?  Are these kids suffering as a result?

As to the latter question, Dr. Saturday helpfully reminds us of the incentives:

"Coaches follow the letter of the law at the peril of their records and their jobs."

True this.  If the NCAA is going to allow the average to be what it is, new coaches with something to prove are obviously, in the very least, going to have to be at that average.  Honestly, I'm very surprised that Rodriguez isn't well over the average.  This potentially reflects far more on Carr than it does on Rodriguez assuming there really isn't a quality of life issue here.  Mr. Hinton makes just that point:

"In that sense, assuming that Carr's staff really were the sticklers they're widely reputed to be (an assumption backed up by the Free Press' reports), the exuberance of their successors is just another case of Rodriguez and Barwis bringing the program into the 21st Century. The fact that they're being singled out may only be because they're doing it at one of the very few places that knows the difference."

As to the former question, the disconnect between what the players were doing and what they must now do to see the field may very well be the difference maker here.  If Lloyd truly was running his program differently than anybody in the country toward the end, this kind of reporting would only come out here, about Michigan football.  This is perhaps less the Freep's doing (outside of their inability to contextualize anything at all) than fall out from an iconoclast leaving the program.
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August 30th, 2009 at 3:07 PM | I was just going to post the (Score:1)
JC3
Joined: 07/17/2009
MGoPoints: 1299

I was just going to post the Doc Saturday article. He did a very nice job on it, my favorite part was perhaps the ending.

In that sense, assuming that Carr's staff really were the sticklers they're widely reputed to be (an assumption backed up by the Free Press' reports), the exuberance of their successors is just another case of Rodriguez and Barwis bringing the program into the 21st Century. The fact that they're being singled out may only be because they're doing it at one of the very few places that knows the difference.

Twitter // MaizeNBrew

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:09 PM | so in conclusion (Score:1)
Moe Greene
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Joined: 08/01/2008
MGoPoints: 2033

This is starting to resemble the great freakout over Mr. Carty's parting shot 'ere he left for law school.

Or the freakout over Shavodrick Beaver.

Or the "we have no DTs" episode.

We should all take advice from Sgt Hulka and lighten up francis.

No radio. Nothing of value.

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:20 PM | Everybody does it? (Score:1)
bigbluefanatic05
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Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 0

Most likely...and Bo and Carr were probably the same but, at least, their players didn't "bitch" about it!! This whole story has me thinking that RR is not as popular as we might have been lead to believe...at least, among the players.

And the fact that U-M football has never been suspected of any wrongdoings & we're just coming off our worst season ever, has me MORE convinced than ever that RR is the WRONG man for our program & should NEVER have been hired!!

"RETURN TO TRADITION"

"ROAD TO REDMEPTION"

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:32 PM | You're missing it (and so are others bothered by allegations) (Score:1)
cps2010
Joined: 08/08/2009
MGoPoints: 3481

I don't think those pointing out that "everyone does this" are doing so b/c they think that makes it okay. The point is that everyone does this and yet Michigan is the only school receiving media attention and scrutiny for it.

Why is that? Why is the Free Press the ONLY media outlet that investigated this when ALL media outlets had the exact same access to the exact same sources? Why hasn't the Free Press asked the same questions at Michigan State? Or taken the 3 hour trek to Columbus and asked players at Ohio State? Or any other school in the Big Ten?

As to your first suggestion that "Bo and Carr were probably the same but, at least, their players didn't 'bitch' about it," I say that could be the most naive, misguided assumption I have read in a long time. I guarantee you there were players who bitched about practice, et. al. time during the Bo, Mo, and Lloyd years. (In fact, I personally heard it from guys who played then.) They just didn't do it to the media b/c they weren't asked about it, much less asked in the unethical manner of hiding the reasons for the questions.

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August 30th, 2009 at 4:48 PM | I don't want the Press asking OSU (Score:1)
killingsford1
Joined: 10/28/2008
MGoPoints: 0

players how many hours they spend at football-related activities, even if only tangentially related. Columbus Dispatch is working on player reaction, I'm sure. I bet Tress has already talked to the players about this, as have other coaches around the nation. They know that lazy journalists around the country see this a low-hanging fruit for an article idea - compare / contrast the local school with these reports out of UM, etc.

The more reaction there is, the more I am convinced this will end up being a national story on how overworked big-time college athletes are ... complete with the very popular "should they be paid argument" that will provide fodder for the radio guys and the outside the lines episode that has already started taping.

Who has odds on which senator decides to hold congressional hearings on this ... my guess: Orin Hatch again, as he is clearly intimately familiar with college football already

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:20 PM | And, idiots. (Score:1)
Dantonio Banderas
Joined: 08/30/2009
MGoPoints: 0

Whoever wrote this needs to return to grammar school, and then to journalism school.

The survey, I quote, "doesn't address the degree to which coaches' implied demands drive up after-practice hours."

Translation: this includes how athletes use their OWN time. RichRod's 44 hrs/week does not.

Next?

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August 30th, 2009 at 4:27 PM | You might want to try reading (Score:1)
Clarence Beeks
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Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3017

You might want to try reading your quoted sentence in conjunction with the material and comes both before and after it. Your statement is inaccurate. What the quoted material means is that the average hours reported in the survey does not account for which portion are the result of the players' own ambition or implied requirements by coaches. This would be because there would be no possible way to account for that in a survey of this type. That number could be 0% or 100%, there is no way to tell. Regardless, the material you quoted does not remotely mean what you are trying to portray it as meaning.

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:27 PM | This does not prove that (Score:1)
formerlyanonymous
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 13945

This does not prove that Denard Robinson is fast.

MGoPosts|MGoDiaries|Twitter|Email

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:36 PM | It won't matter. Sheridan is (Score:1)
BlueVoix
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Joined: 06/25/2009
MGoPoints: 5527

It won't matter. Sheridan is starting and the Coner is numero 2.

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:40 PM | Dang it. I was really hoping (Score:1)
formerlyanonymous
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Joined: 06/30/2008
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Dang it. I was really hoping Kennedy would start. He's got that walk on grit of Sheridan, the arm of Tate, the Febreeze clean cut look of Cone, and well, nothing of Denard's, but I so wanted him to start.

[/overplaying the joke to death]

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:44 PM | As long as Johnny Sears is (Score:1)
BlueVoix
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As long as Johnny Sears is playing corner, I don't care how far that joke goes.

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August 30th, 2009 at 6:37 PM | Actually it does (Score:1)
victors2000
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Joined: 03/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2159

Some article-can't remember which-indicated Denard got his football related business complete in about 30 hrs, which is at least 10 hours faster than the FBS average.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. ~Dan Birdwell

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:32 PM | Of course they do. (Score:1)
jrt336
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Joined: 01/16/2009
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Of course they do.

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August 30th, 2009 at 3:46 PM | Freep Is Nearly Out of Business Anyway (Score:1)
Slinginsam
Joined: 06/17/2009
MGoPoints: 16

What a lousy way to sell papers. The guy is a good writer who is probably being forced to do this to save his job.

My gosh, this is such a minor thing. This isn't point shaving, falsifying transcripts for admission, having someone else take the ACT, or knowingly concealing/covering up phony backgrounds of athletes etc.

Most guys on the team only take 3 courses(12 credits)per semester. They need only get a "C" in the course. They have access to tutors...they have people who check to make sure they are going to class and doing their assignments. And the courses are so easy an intelligent middle-schooler could do this. What the heck is the problem?

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August 30th, 2009 at 4:32 PM | The most quote in the linked (Score:1)
Clarence Beeks
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Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3017

The most quote in the linked article:

"Frankly, I'd rather have that student go to sleep early, wake up in the morning and do an extra run than I would (him or her) staying up late and going to the bars," Brand said.

This is in relation to FBS players reporting that they spent on average 44.8 hours per week on football related activities, which is exactly in line with what has been reported in this case. This is obviously well above the limit stated in the "rule" but, importantly, it is also obviously well known to, and condoned by, those at the very highest level of the NCAA.

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August 30th, 2009 at 5:30 PM | this. (Score:1)
colin
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 978

nm.

...the Canadians make up for it with their emotion and classic ice-dancing skill.

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August 30th, 2009 at 4:44 PM | Players (Score:1)
OSUMC Wolverine
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Joined: 09/06/2008
MGoPoints: 1081

The players didnt go to the media, the media went to the players. Im sure that there were 10 current and formers players sitting at a local bar together and this reporter happened to find them all together. Or better yet they all appeared at the paper's doorstep as if at the gates of heaven to confess their sins and beg forgiveness. Not likely. I for one have seen enough of the free press's crap. Someone needs to start a site that posts current advertisers in the fress press so persons can avoid those establishments. Why support those who give money to a forum of stupidity.

Reality is an illusion created by an unsafe drop in blood alcohol levels that exposes one to the idiocy of others.

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August 30th, 2009 at 5:24 PM | But if Lloyd was truly able (Score:1)
kmd
Joined: 04/09/2009
MGoPoints: 175

But if Lloyd was truly able to the run the program differently and achieve success without excessive amount of mandatory practice, isn't that a sign that other programs should be able to, as well? Excessive amounts of work have been the status quo for so long that nobody really has anything to compare against, any way to justify how much they require past the NCAA minimum besides the fact that everybody else is doing it. It's not like a team is going to experiment and risk bombing that season. Is it really that bad if people in perhaps a unique historical circumstance with perspective are able to say "we don't think it's worth it"? I'm pretty sure at some point the law of diminishing returns comes into play with how much time you spend in practice.

Programs work the best when the optional practice actually is optional and players still show up. From the stories coming out, that clearly does not seem to be the kind of environment being fostered at Michigan. Instead of letting people buy into the system, Rich Rod seems to be rushing it by forcing them into the system and hoping they eventually buy into it. How are you supposed to instill faith in your system when you force everybody to put in the amount of work deemed necessary, and you still have one of the worst years in school history? I think we would be a lot further ahead if things actually were optional, and the undecided people were able to see a marked improvement in their peers before buying into the system.

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August 30th, 2009 at 5:29 PM | it WAS working to a certain extent (Score:1)
colin
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 978

the end was more than a little rough, i'd say. really, the only way for that approach to consistently work is to signal/advertise the fact that you're doing it differently and succeeding. the pressure of the public/NCAA would be necessary to push everyone in a direction that limited Michigan's hypothetical competitive disadvantage.

...the Canadians make up for it with their emotion and classic ice-dancing skill.

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August 30th, 2009 at 7:53 PM | Well, around same time Carr (Score:1)
West Texas Blue
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MGoPoints: 1655

Well, around same time Carr eased up things in the program (circa 2001-2002), you could say that's when the Michigan football program started to decline, especially with regards to player development and S&C.

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August 31st, 2009 at 12:24 AM | Examples? (Score:1)
fatbastard
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Joined: 01/03/2009
MGoPoints: 575

Do you have examples or specifics to support your claim that Lloyd's staff "eased up" in 2001?

When did your mother let you out of the basement Mr. Rosenberg?

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August 31st, 2009 at 1:22 AM | how many different stories (Score:1)
mjv
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 354

how many different stories needed to be published about recruits under performing, Michigan football players not knowing how to really train when they go to the NFL, seeing a team that fails to beat teams with far less talent multiple times every year, looking at offensive linemen drop out of the program or fail to even approach their potential, and when they finally started working out in the summer, an offensive lineman (Jake Long) was at the head of the pack for distance runs on the golf course.

Jake is a phenomenal athlete, but if a man his size is at the front of a distance run, that is a slow run. But Michigan football players doing extra work the last two years under Carr was reported in the media like an incredible occurrence and a significant change in attitude.

A program can't be expected to compete with other teams that put in significantly more time and effort on S&C and other forms of player development. The differences between recruits just aren't that large.

Go Blue!! Viva La Revolucion!!
www.wolverineliberationarmy.com

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August 30th, 2009 at 6:34 PM | Item moved to a more proper (Score:1)
victors2000
victors2000's picture
Joined: 03/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2159

Item moved to a more proper place in the post, move along...

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. ~Dan Birdwell

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August 30th, 2009 at 7:46 PM | Not freaking out,,, (Score:1)
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 8971

..but it does really piss me off. Other schools have done "nod-nod-wink-wink voluntary" workouts for years, but UM seems to be the only media market where the media are so vindictive that they do shit like this.

First Carty, then Rosenberg. And now the trolls are having such a field day that I don't even want to participate in the comment fields of any of the MSM. Why do we get such fucks in our MSM who develop such emnity toward the team they cover?

It also sounds like Rosenberg did the same crap Carty did, asking leading questions while misleading the players about his motivation for asking them.

I can see him doing it: smile a little bit, get the player talking about how hard he works, tell him how great he is, and ask for details about how hard he worked and how it was worth it. Then, of course, you totally betray the player in the paper when your hatchet job is ready.

Fuck Rosenberg. May he rot in 'EL.'

http://tinfoilhatsportsblog.blogspot.com/

 

 

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August 31st, 2009 at 1:18 AM | Quite Honestly, I don't really care (Score:1)
Seth9
Joined: 04/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2297

Everybody does it is not an excuse, nor should it in any way mitigate what Rodriguez did, should the allegations prove to be true. Michigan is special not only for being an elite program, but for being a spotless elite program. I cherish this idea of Michigan and would hope that everyone else here does too.

That said, I have some trouble believing that Michigan actually broke the rules. It is certain that we went into a gray area insofar as voluntary activities goes, but I doubt Rodriguez actually crossed the line and scheduled truly mandatory practices that went beyond the limit. If this is the case, it is somewhat bothersome, but within the realm of acceptability.

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August 31st, 2009 at 1:49 AM | agreed (Score:1)
BlueGoM
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Joined: 08/25/2009
MGoPoints: 2624

I'll be surprised if anything really comes of this in the way of sanctions. Rich Rod may be forced to uh, modify his practices *slightly* to avoid future scrutiny. The guy's been coaching at the collegiate level for what - 20 years? I'd hope he'd know what the rules are by now.

If anything the freep article shines some light on some differences between Carr and Rich Rod, and perhaps there are still some Carr recruits who just plain don't like Rich Rod at all. Supposedly there were some 'dissenters' on the team last season and perhaps there are still a couple left over but who are keeping their mouths shut out of fear of losing their scholarships.

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August 31st, 2009 at 6:02 AM | If Only (Score:1)
The King of Belch
The King of Belch's picture
Joined: 07/21/2009
MGoPoints: 6

Rodirguez would have distributed copies of works by Rudyard Kipling after his 44 hour work weeks. Or, read to the players at bed check time.

None of this would have come out.

That being said, it is what it is.

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