we're only going to take one interior guy? really?
...says Denzel Valentine of Big Ten Tourney favorite MSU, which is 5-7 in its last 12 games. Cumong, man.
Flint defensive tackle Danny O'Brien (6'2", 293 lbs) has seen his recruitment take off. He's added offers from the likes of Alabama and Florida among others. He went up to Michigan's camp today to show the Michigan coaches what he could do and prove his worth. Here's what he had to say about the day.
TOM: How did the day go?
DANNY: Good, I tore it up. I didn't work out in the second part, I just kind of hung out and talked with everybody.
TOM: What was the outcome from this camp with Michigan? I know there was a discrepancy of sorts with being on the same page.
DANNY: There was basically some confusion during the spring on how they wanted things to go and they told me they wanted me to come to camp and prove myself. They told me that there's basically only a couple defensive tackles with offers and they will probably only take one interior guy. They're going to recruit me really hard now and they gave me the pitch and everything.
TOM: So what's next? I know you told me the other day that you were going to come out with a top five soon.
DANNY: Yeah in July I'll come out with a top five. I don't have a leader anymore, I'm just going to evaluate all the schools in the top five and go from there.
TOM: Do you know when you want to have your final decision made?
DANNY: I'd like to take some official visits then make the decision late in the season or after the season, but I'm not sure yet.
we're only going to take one interior guy? really?
I have to assume that a) One of the DE commits is 3-tech bound, b) this is just coach-speak in trying to recruit him or c) it`s more fuel to add to the possibility that we`re going 3-4 at some point in the future.
I trust Mattison and Hoke know exactly what they want for defence so this isn`t a huge concern but that`s a little surprising to see.
i still don't see how this year's recruiting sets up for a 3-4. stroebel and godin would make good 3-4 ends, but brown and ojemudia would not.
admittedly, mario ojemudia would be a good 3-4 OLB though.
I figured I'd just speculate, I don't actually know or really care if we're planning on going 3-4 at some point. Just looking at the tackle depth for 2012, if we're only taking one this class and no ends are converting then at best we're probably looking at 6-7 interior guys, and 3 of the guys would probably be fairly undersized. We'll see how it all plays out.
I love speculating and let me add this to your speculation. Mattison ran 3-4 base while he coached the Ravens.
The only thing is that both Hoke and Mattison said that they are going to be running a 4-3 Under.
The 3-4 though: I'm clueless.
Question for those of you who know these things: Could it be possible that a college 4-3 Under could use a similar personel grouping to a 3-4? If you make the weakside defensive end in the 4-3 Under into a linebacker isn't that basically a 3-4?
It makes perfect sense to me if that's the case. Mattison!
Let me see if I got this correct:
in the 4-3 under the SAM backer walks down and is lined up over the TE.
I'm not sure, but I think the DL and LB have different gap responsibilities and allignments in the 3-4. In 3-4 I think the NT is playing 0-tech or head up on the center, while in a 4-3 under the NT plays a 1 tech shading to the strong side of the center.
Yes, the 4-3 Under could easily become a 3-4. Like you said, the basic change would be the weakside DE (in our case, Roh or Black) becomes an outside linebacker. And Roh/Black will already be doing some of that in zone blitz types of schemes.
The 3-tech would bump out to a 4- or 5-tech, and the nose tackle would [mostly] play a 0-tech, which is head up on the center.
It's a minor adjustment and could happen, although Hoke/Mattison have both talked about the 4-3 Under and 4-3 Over with no mention of a 3-4, AFAIK.
Of the DTs that we are after are any of them suited to play 0-tech? Are 0-techs supposed to be huge immovable types that take on double teams and are they hard to come by?
My uninformed opinion is that it would make more sense to move to a 3-4 next year after Mike Martin has done damage as a 4-3 DT his last year. Martin's the best player on the defense and 0-tech is not where he is best used (see: last year).
It would make sense to me to do it in 2012 though when you could hopefully fashion BWC into a 0-tech.
OSU supposedly did some of this last year and might do more this year.
OSU supposedly did some of this last year and might do more this year.
Typically the good rush ends will move to the OLB spot that typically rushes the passer all day long. You will see alot of college DE's get drafted to play OLB in 3-4 NFL schemes. Then of course if we didn't already , we will have too many LB's
in the near future. Not this year but with the LB's coming in for '11 and '12 i think a 3-4 will suit our personell the best. And I think the 3-4 is a great defense to run
I don't know so much. Our LB's aren't big enough for a 3-4. Those are the 6'3-6'4 type guys (ideally) who are big enough to take on O-linemen at the line of scrimmage and rush head on with an O tackle. The guys we have at LB seem more like 4-3 LBs. If anything, State seems to be setting up nicely for a 3-4, with guys such as Thomas and Pittman. Both would be great 3-4 pass rushing LBs.
then I hope it's Pipkins as a NT. I hope we take another next year too. I miss those double NT days of Branch and Watson. Stuff the run!
And one DT
"they will probably only take one interior guy"
What? Seriously? Don't we need a bare minimum of two? Preferably three?
DT is a need in a sense that we need elite talent not so much numbers like 3 recruits. We have BWC, Q Washington, Kenny Wilkins, Richard Ash, and Terry Talbott. I guess it all depends on how they are going to be using Rock and Heitzman from the 2011 class.
Campbell will be a senior in 2012, Washington a redshirt junior. Wilkins is a 5-tech DE. Talbott is injured and might not finish his career. Ash is the only other possibility.
We're essentially down to 3 defensive tackles next year, not counting true freshmen or someone like Chris Rock, who's a DE but could bulk up. Unless we're switching to a 3-4, we need more than just one DT.
playing Chris Bryant at DT? Scout listed him as a 2 way lineman, but that hardley counts I suppose. Gary Yerden also played 2 ways in High School.
interesting that the coaches only want one interior guy-I have a strong feeling that spot will be occupied long before Danny makes his decision.
If he waits until his season is over his spot will most likely be gone.
A late in the season decision? Does not compute...
Seems like it's between Pipkins and O'Brien for the DT spot (if they are taking only one like they told him). First come first served? In this case I don't think that would be bad, as both are very good prospects
You could add Day (seldom mentioned, though) and Shittu (highly speculative) to that list and I would still be fine with a first-come first-served mentality.
You could also include Jaleel Johnson. Not sure if we still keep in contact with him but he seems like a good fit as well.
I have been hearing that he is a liking Sparty more and more these days. I guess we will wait and see what happens.
like a 3tech. He spins his way around or swims past his blocker, while Pipkins takes on his blocker with his shoulder just chicken winging his way past. You can easily visualize him taking on 2 blockers in the video at the 1 gap. If were picking 1 interior lineman then it should be Pipkins as a NT. If I had to pick today I would say OBrien is better than Godin at the 3 gap, but if Godin had a little more weight he'd be the better DT by far. Pipkins and Godin will be our best bet from that video.
I wonder who that one interior spot is going to?
I would be the "one guy" line is used to place the sense of urgency in play. If Pipkins commits, and O'Brien calls up Hoke in November asking "Can I commit?", I'd bet that Hoke would accept his commitment as well.
They might not take him, though, if Wormely, Pipkins, and Adolphus Washington have already jumped on board. Four more DLs seems like a lot.
One interior guy left in this class......which means its either going to be Danny, or Pipkins, no? Would be a bummer to have to pick one and not both......
BTW, did anyone else notice how Jaleel Johnson smoked Jordan Diamond a couple of times (sts) in that video......
Diamond was injured.
Didn't realize that...well good on him for still competing.....that actually really says a lot about the kid......
on both reps
Also: this isn't the update I was hoping for (no commitment)
Also, Also: Pipkins is a man among boys in that video, Danny looks very good too
It's been said Diamond was ill or injured that day and playing through it. Cannot verify that on my own, however. That said, I don't think there's a lot of question that Johnson is a skilled tackle.
it is the greatest need by far
They might both play DT at some point...I say that assuming that the coaches are holding a spot for Wormley and that they don't consider him to be an "interior guy."
If by DT you mean SDE, then yes he is a DT. The 5 technique in a 4-3 under actually kind of plays like a DT. Wormley is not a 3 technique player.
Unless, like wlubd said, and we're planning on going to 3-4 in the future or someone like a wormley/strobel/godin moves to the interior.
I'm ok with only taking one interior guy when there is such a surplus of talent at DE in this class. Plus hopefully this means the staff feels confident in Quinton Washington and Richard Ash playing down the road.
That would be a calming conclusion, but who knows...
This also makes me wonder if the coaches are really high on the combo of Campbell, Ash, and Washington. It would seem odd to think so, but has anyone heard anything recently about these guys? Nonetheless, depth will be shallow, since Talbott is a long ways from contributing, if ever, and I don't know exactly where they see Wilkins playing.
Additionally, I think this is also recruiting coachspeak. They probably wanted to explain to Obrien why they weren't pursuing as intensely as before and might want to try and squeeze committments out asap. If a two of Pipkins, Obrien, Shittu, and Day wanted to come I think the coaches would take them. Also, good chance Godin and Strobel end up being 3 techs.
So far the coaches have done a fantastic job, but only 1 interior lineman? After this year we have ash, Washington and senior Campbell. If you can take pipkins and obrien, then take both.
I think everyone needs to relax when they say that they don't like the way the coaches are recruiting. Remember it's Hoke and Co. who salvaged last year's class and is tearing it up this year. I COMPLETELY trust what they are doing. Also remember Hoke said he wants the "right" players and if they aren't running through the doors to be at Michigan I believe that there is someone else who is. And with our coaching staff they will be taught to become BEASTS
It's ok to criticize coaches. Yeah, I trust them, and yeah, they're much better than I would be, but they're not perfect.
Every coach will take players that don't turn out well and pass on players who blow up. It's part of football.
And part of being a fan is criticizing that. I'm going to cheer for whoever plays for the Wolverines, but it's fun to pretend and say how we would approach recruiting.
I may agree with what you say, sir, but I'll never fight to the death to defend your right to say it!
Besides what Waggles said, I highly doubt that Hoke wouldn't LOVE to have Dorial Green-Beckham or (more realistically) Aziz Shittu just because they don't want to "run through the doors to be at Michigan." Furthermore, us having great coaches (and some of the coaches haven't proven themselves yet, but I think Mattison qualifies) doesn't mean we can get a class of 20 2 stars that REALLY want to play for us and make them into Brandon Graham.
One of the things I like about Pipkins is his quote that he wants to take up blockers to leave his LBs free. I don't recall any other DT recruit ever saying that.