Three and Out: Pages 100-250

Submitted by 03 Blue 07 on

Mods: I screwed up and put this on the Board. Can you move it to Diaries? Thanks. 

(Done [zl])

Previously: “Three and Out: The First 100 Pages” can be found here: http://mgoblog.com/diaries/three-and-out-100-pages

Okay, guys, to recap: these are just my impressions, sort of stream-of-consciousness. Picked the book up Thursday (10/5) evening, and have been reading it. My comments in the last thread (above) I’ll try not to repeat here, other than to say that on page 100, MSC and BM tell RR to keep the $2.5m they promised him toward the buyout quiet because they hadn’t informed the Regents, and MSC tells RR and Rita, “if they find out, I’m toast.” And Martin chimes in “and so am I.”  And also to point out if you want more stuff, check out that last thread, especially the times I pop up in the comments to discuss what Lloyd did when RR arrived with respect to transfers, etc., and how that all shook out.

Continuing from my last post, this thing is a soap opera. The infighting, back-biting, and divisiveness in the A.D., football community, and administration is sobering and unfortunate, and it hasn’t gotten much better as the book progresses. There is also a ton of “cover your ass” stuff that the administration did where RR seemed to take the hit, but it wasn’t necessarily always his fault.  In today’s installment, much on the Freep Jihad, the NCAA, the Carr’s Camp vs. RR Camp rift, and more. . .

The 2008 Team, Denard and Tate’s Recruiting

RR and the players knew there were guys- seniors- who weren’t “all in.” RR understood this; he thought it was natural, as those were seniors and guys who had paid their dues, and then a new regime comes in, and they’re essentially starting over. RR was actually sympathetic to that.

On top of that, RR and the coaches saw what we all saw: they were incredibly young, and they could never get Threet to stop throwing off his back foot. He’d do it right in practice, but in the games, he’d get all flustered.

 They were recruiting Tate during this time. They were very, very excited about Tate, as well as Big Will. They thought Tate was exactly what they needed.

 Denard: they were recruiting him during this time, too. Interestingly, RR had always wanted DR as a QB, but wires crossed with Scott Shafer, who had been recruiting DR as a defensive back. (Pages 148-148). Shafer resigns, and it turns out that Shafer had wanted DR as a DB. Shafer had worked really hard to recruit Denard as a DB, but Denard was “adamant” that “I wasn’t coming to Michigan to play corner. He had already turned down Florida for the same reason and had explained as much to Shafer.”

So when Shavodrick Beaver jumped ship (right around the same time), Tony Gibson happened to be in Deerfield, FL recruiting Adrian Witty. While there, he checked in with Denard, and was surprised to learn Denard was still interested in U of M….but solely as a quarterback. Michigan then said they’d let him try QB, and Denard was ours.

The “Highest GPA in team History” thing

RR asked the academic folks what the highest GPA in school history was. They told him 2.60. The team set this as a goal, and got a 2.61.

Then, as part of the Jihad (more on that below), the Freep dug into that. It turns out that the academic people had given RR specious/not well-sourced info on the team’s best historical GPA. Rather than say this, U of M’s PR people drafted a press release where RR took the fall. RR balked at this; it wasn’t his screw-up. He had them change the release (this was one of the first times he put his foot down with the administration). They did. Then they released the earlier version, making RR the scapegoat.

The Free Press Jihad, NCAA Investigation, Compliance, etc

Well. A couple things: this whole thing, personally, really upset Rich Rod. The reason it did was because a.) they weren’t cheating, b.) there was clearly a leak and sources within the athletic department, c.) and most importantly, the idea that RR didn’t love his players, care about them, was trying to hurt them, etc. This is what tore him up. He shed tears over it a few times.

 Rosenberg v. Cook: Brian Cook’s showdown with him is recalled. If you remember, Brian went after him, personally, at the press conference following the hit piece, repeatedly asking “do you know what a countable hour is?” Rosenberg and Brian were both interviewed for the book, as was Craig Ross. Rosenberg remembers it as this crazy guy barking at him in the parking lot, screaming over and over “do you know what a countable hour is?” and Rosenberg responding, “who are you?” They went back and forth like that four or five times, Rosenberg stuck out his hand and said, “I’m Michael Rosenberg. Who are you?” and Craig Ross said “that’s Brian Cook.” Also, Rosenberg refused to talk to Brian, saying that Brian was “a competitor.”

Snyder: More direct quotes where he says about RR: “I can’t stand the guy.” Also: from page 183, Larry Foote, who was friends with Snyder, asked him, “why didn’t you ask me about RR?” because Foote knew RR well, trained with Barwis, etc. Snyder’s answer, quote: “I just don’t like the guy.”

Rosenberg, personally: Was really hurt by the backlash. Broke down over the Amazon.com stuff, saying how he’d poured 3 years of his life into that book, it was his life’s work, and to have it trashed like that on Amazon got to him.

 Other press vs. Rosenberg/Snyder: When Rosenberg and Snyder came in after the hit piece dropped, they had a spring in their step. This was when they went to the press conference. They were surprised to find that the other press members were at best, cold with them, and at worst, openly disgusted with the piece.

 Rosenberg, as we expected, never asked any players to find out if there was “another side” to the “OMG PRACTICING TOO MUCH” story. He didn’t do it. Bacon asks him about this in the book. Rosenberg is evasive. Also blames editors, saying that stuff was edited out.

 Chapter 15 deals with a lot of this. Rosenberg and Snyder asked Madej for “everything you have,” on a Friday night when they told him the story was coming out on Sunday. They said “we need Rodriguez, we need Martin, we need schedules. Tell us we’re wrong- anything you have.” Madej: “the problem is, they’ve been working on this for months, and you’ve got seven or eight hours to respond. That’s difficult.”

 When the meeting ended, Madej said, “you better be sure you’re not exaggerating.” Rosenberg, “We’re covered,” replying confidently.

Judy Van Horn immediately seized on the countable vs. non-countable hours aspect, as did everyone in the A.D. This was glossed over in the original Freep piece, not even mentioned, though Rosenberg says “of COURSE we knew the difference,” etc.

 Of note: Van Horn and Ann Vallano had even asked the NCAA whether stretching counts, taping, etc., and were never able to get a straight answer/interpretation of the rule. They (U of M) interpreted it like everyone else, then: that stretching didn’t count.

 Also: former players say that we weren’t doing anything different, time-wise, from under LC. Things like “Torture Tuesdays,” where kids who skipped class were punished.

 Also, the Freep piece really shook the players up because of the fact that there had to be sources inside the program; the continuity and togetherness was naturally shaken by this. But RR made sure no one blamed Hawthorne or Stokes, telling the team that those kids were part of the family, they'd been tricked, and that no one should be messing with them, etc. And the team didn't shun them; they understood that it was all bullshit.

 CARA

 Van Horn now feels like she was “snowed.” Labadie told compliance numerous times that he would bring the forms, but in the end, he was negligent, lying, or both. Van Horn brought in auditors to try to get his ass in gear. Didn’t help. That audit resulted in a finding against the football program a few weeks before the Freep piece. Coincidence? No. It’s clear someone leaked it to the Freep.

Infighting

RR got fed up with all of the bullshit, and all of the drama. “They told me in the interview: You get to Michigan, and you’re gonna be surrounded by great people who are gonna support you. Really? Where are they? I want to talk to the Regents, directly, and tell them what’s going on here….People who support our program only hear about the bullshit these guys (Freep, saboteurs) are making up.” (p. 166).

 Also, and again: there were leaks in the athletic department. Bacon seems to be almost certain it was Carr loyalists. There was a very strong faction in the AD that was pissed that English didn’t get the job. English himself was pissed. He refused to actually say anything to RR after we beat them, just shook his hand. RR doesn’t appreciate this. He also doesn’t appreciate apparently this James Stapleton business. Stapleton is a wealthy guy, former U of M fb player, apparently one of those guys who has a lot of pull behind the scenes. He is a regent at Eastern; a big English supporter. The rumors got so bad that he, Stapleton, sent a fax to Bill Martin, LC, and RR, basically saying “I’m not the source of the sabotage! I didn’t collaborate with Rosenberg.” Stapleton and Rosenberg are friends.

Stapleton was also close with Denise Illitch, who as early as 2009, openly referred to RR as “Dead Man Walking.” Classy, Regent. Classy. RR was very pissed that Stapleton had a sideline pass; he got it from Illitch, who was a Regent. RR was pretty convinced (as is Bacon) that Stapleton was part of this group of people who were English/Carr loyalists and were actively undermining the program.

Tate

Comes across as petulant, immature, etc. RR was hard on him, and got pissed off at him because Tate never improved, which RR thought was due to a lack of diligence. Tate never watched film (at least through 2009 season’s end) and Denard didn’t really either. RR didn’t like this. The problem was, with the Freep thing hanging over their heads, it was hard for RR and the players, because they were all scared shitless of over-practicing, over-preparing, etc. But yeah, Tate’s demeanor was an issue.

RR, LC, BM Summit in 2009

This was fascinating. Martin was either forced out after the issue with the student security guard who wouldn’t let him into MSC’s box (as many think happened; 2 days later, the University announces Martin’s retirement; it was the 2nd such incident) or it was just a coincidence (as Martin maintains). Regardless, the day after his retirement was announced, Martin went to a pre-scheduled lunch with RR and LC. It was chilly.

 This was the first time Lloyd had really spoken to RR since the phone call in December 2007 when Lloyd had sold RR on coming to Michigan. I’ll reproduce the account of this conversation; ellipses are where I’ve cut things out for brevity:

After the chilly pleasantries were dispensed with, Carr sent the first volley: “Tell the people in your camp to quit attacking me in the press,” he said, as Rodriguez remembered it a couple hours later. The catalyst for this was undoubtedly Rick Leach’s public lambasting of Carr. . . for sitting with Iowa’s coaches and dignitaries—people Carr had known for years—in an Iowa stadium luxury box…”

 

“I don’t have a camp,” Rodriguez replied, “and whatever they’re doing, they’re doing it on their own. Rick Leach speaks for himself.”

 

Rodriguez ticked off all the reasons Carr shouldn’t feel threatened…What Michigan football needed now, Rodriguez said [to Carr ] was Carr’s unambiguous support. “When the Free Press came out with this story….we could have used you speaking up.”

 

Carr said nothing.

 

“You’re either all in or you’re not,” Rodriguez continued. “You’re either inside the Michigan family or you’re not.” But the closest he came to accusing Carr of anything more than silence was this: “Somebody inside the department is talking to the press and doing us harm.”

 

The suggestion was that, if there were moles in the department, Carr most likely knew who they were, and Rodriguez would appreciate it if Carr told them to knock it off. As Rodriguez recalled, Carr remained silent at that, too.

Pp. 235-236.

Alright, all, I gotta go- tailgating for the NW game. But wanted to get this out there for people to digest.

Comments

kmanning

October 9th, 2011 at 2:27 AM ^

If I had to guess, it's becuase there really aren't manyquestions beyond "Why did you hire Greg Robinson?" and "Why did you keep Tony Gibson on staff?" on that end that we don't already know about. We know about the attrition. We know about all the high ranked guys that just plain were busts the last couple years. What else is there to really talk about?

All the drama/politics/etc. were a pretty large unknown for a large portion of the fan-base. I think we'd all heard rumors about "factions" that were trying to undermine the program and how it might be related to Carr/etc., but never anything but rumors from unnamed sources on message boards. It sounds like the book does a good job of at least trying to layout what happened and with actual sources. That seems a lot more interesting to me.

I can see one chapter or so on the defensive coaching thing, and if that was left out then it could have improved the book I'm sure, but even with that I think a large majority of the book would be about the "other" stuff.

Gulogulo37

October 19th, 2011 at 1:45 PM ^

Yea, it's true that poor defense and so forth is the main thing that led to RR's downfall, but we know that. If you want the scoop on poor X's and O's, re-watch the games and read UFRs. Recruiting has been talked about to death. It fell off at the end of Carr's tenure, and RR focused too much on the offense. What more is to be written there?

Intricate details of the relationships between Martin, Carr, Miles, RR, etc.? We don't know nearly as much. You may not be interested, but that's where he has the opportunity to shed light on things. Personally I don't care THAT much. I'm not buying this book. Not because I think of it as a "one-sided hit piece" despite not having read a page, but because there's other stuff I'm more interested in. I am interested enough to read these diary entries and the comments though.

I don't get why people thought this book would be about something else except that they're pissed off about someone they like looking bad or because they don't wanna hear about how dysfunctional Michigan was.

colin

October 8th, 2011 at 1:34 PM ^

Jeebus.

So it's basically super clear that RR realized he had to recruit someone like Bacon if he wanted any kind of press support at all, right?  Or is there clarification from Bacon that I missed about how he got into the middle of all this?

I'm glad he did but it's really disheartening that it was necessary.

Farnn

October 8th, 2011 at 1:40 PM ^

He got inside access to cover the transition of the first year under RR.  Hard to remember now but the shift from Bo's coaches to an outsider at a program like Michigan was a pretty big deal back in 2008.  No one knew how the whole thing was going to turn out 3 years later, but the idea of RR's offense with Michigan caliber players was pretty inspiring just a few years ago.

colin

October 8th, 2011 at 1:43 PM ^

Right yeah I remember.  But I just wonder what RR's motivation was in providing the access for JUB.  I'm not sure how the timeline matches up, but at some point it seems likely that RR realized he needed JUB.  I wonder how long it took him to make the realization.

UMICH1606

October 8th, 2011 at 2:12 PM ^

It was dumb luck that Bacon stumbled upon this opportunity. Bacon sent a copy of Bo's Lasting Lessons to a gentleman whom he had a friendship with, that also happened to be one of RR's financial advisors. When RR accepted the job, this guy asked Bacon if he would like to follow RR around and cover the transition. RR was on board, and it originally set out to be a book that would be co-authored by RR. However, Bacon quickly saw that this needed to be longer than a 1 year project, and Bacon had to write the book himself. RR was still on board.

There is a preview of the book on the internet and the above paragraph is the jist of the story of how this book all came about. I would link it if I remembered where I saw it.

M-Wolverine

October 8th, 2011 at 1:40 PM ^

But is there better sourcing in the book? (You're doing a great job, just wonder who he says he hears these things from).
<br>
<br>They really wanted Tate...but had two other QBs before him. Is that BS, did they push the other guys out to make room, did it just work out well?
<br>
<br>And they couldn't get him OR Denard to watch film?! It may be due to some outside circumstances too, but if that was the case they were doomed for a long time.
<br>
<br>Sourcing...did they really say directly to Bacon "I hate that guy" and things like that? Or is he going second hand, with named sources? Because it sounds really stupid to admit...but concerning who's doing it, but beyond the realm of possibility.
<br>
<br>And I know that 3 way meeting did occur...and it was chilly. But it seems it's a good microcosm of the whole book; solely from Rich's point of view. But it's not like it sounds like he comes off great in it either. (I don't know that the pointing of fingers sounds great to a new employer, so I can see why he might not be excited by it either).

Farnn

October 8th, 2011 at 1:43 PM ^

The issue with film watching sounds like it is a few different factors.  The fear of going over allowable time by coaches and everyone in the department, the lack of fear of losing playing time due to having no other options on the depth chart, and the lack of cohesion of the program where there was motivation from other players(especially seniors, being Carr recruits) to improve.

03 Blue 07

October 8th, 2011 at 1:44 PM ^

No, he never gets Snyder or Rosenberg to say "I hated the guy." But he does have quotes from sources, on record. And yes, it is obviously "from the RR point of view," when Lloyd refuses to cooperate with the book. Hell, even Rosenberg and Snyder and Van Horn and Labadie and Martin went on-record.

I will never not be mad at the English faction, point blank.

03 Blue 07

October 8th, 2011 at 1:50 PM ^

Others. But English was less-than-cordial, not even saying a word to RR, and Bacon seems to insinuate that English may have known what was going on. But no, I think the blame lies with the people who wanted English to get the job, not English himself, frankly. He can't control what people say and do who wanted him to get the job, especially not when he's working 100 hour weeks coaching another football team.

colin

October 8th, 2011 at 1:56 PM ^

Seems like a good time to mention that English had been no higher than a DB coach in the entirety of his career up until 2006.  Whatever his skill level as a coach, how the hell does that make him more qualified than RR or any number of other possibilities?

Ugh.

TorontoBlue

October 8th, 2011 at 3:20 PM ^

In February of 2006 Ron English left UM's staff to take coordinator job with Lovie Smith and the Bears.  Shortly after that Carr shook up his staff and went to Chicago on bended knee and got English to come back to Ann Arbor as Michigan's DC.  Don't you think Carr promised English something in that transition to get him to leave the NFL and return to Michigan?  I always have - and when English didn't get the job then Carr & English both felt a promise was welched on. 

BluCheese

October 9th, 2011 at 12:29 AM ^

Actually he was hired as a DB coach not a coordinator.  I'd be surprised if LC promised him anything beyond being DC.  My bet is that LC would have been pushing Debord or Hoke to follow in his footsteps.

03 Blue 07

October 8th, 2011 at 11:57 PM ^

This is a great question. I don't know, and it's not said in the book. To be honest, though, we're now getting into stuff that makes me think about the rules of evidence, etc. A recollection 2-3 hours after a meeting, well, that's pretty decent evidence. Now, I realize that it's from one guy's point of view- RR- but, again, Lloyd, if you want your side told....uhh, you know, go on record. Again: ROSENBERG went on record. Martin went on record. LABADIE went on record.

I love Lloyd. But his silence, while stoic, is upsetting. Just like his silence when people were killing the program. . . that paid him $375k a year at that point to apparently do nothing but have conversations with his former players in his office. I don't want to get into that, but it's in the book too. To say that Lloyd didn't support RR or even feign support puts it mildly. He was, essentially, the antithesis of Bump Elliot in 1969. I don't like writing this, I don't like reading it, and I even defend Lloyd in my own mind while reading it. But this is my conclusion. Again- I'm just a dude who got an advanced copy and is a fast reader. Everyone will draw their own conclusions.

03 Blue 07

October 9th, 2011 at 10:06 PM ^

This is a good point, and this comment kind of sticks with me. Perhaps I've been a little overboard in saying "WTF, if LC wanted his side told, he should have, you know, told it." That's not his style, and he's obviously more-than-entitled to staying above the fray. He has no duty to come out and talk about this stuff. I'm just saying, it would be helpful for analyzing the book if he had.

Also, the span of time between that phone call and RR accepting the job was less than a week. And I think LC had the meeting with the players like 3 days after the initial news that RR got the job. I don't think anything "happened," per se; I think he was just a.) doing all he could to make sure it wasn't Les Miles, and b.) had some notions about RR (who, for example, was/is a good friend of Tressel's, for example) that may have been less-than-positive. And he probably felt like he was just looking out for his players. The problem is, his check comes from the University of Michigan. So he obviously had conflicting loyalties, and put what he thought were his (then still "his"/current) players' best interests ahead of everything else. Which, in reality, is understandable. But it doesn't mean it doesn't leave a bad taste in the reader's mouth, if that reader cares more about Michigan than "Lloyd's players still on the roster in December 2007," which constitute a small subset of people when looked at in the arc of all Michigan players, past and present. It's just hard not to be conflicted about the whole thing, at least for me.

03 Blue 07

October 8th, 2011 at 1:46 PM ^

Me too.

And for those saying "OMG it's from the RR point of view, not objective, etc." Just think about a few things:

1. John Bacon has been a part of the Michigan family since when RR was in college. 2. Bacon had a great relationship with Bo, 3. I am certain Bacon didn't like what he found out, but 4. felt duty-bound to report it. To me, that a guy with as much lifelong loyalty to Michigan as Bacon was as disgusted as I think he is, tells me a lot. Hell I AM disgusted. It's really just shitty, the drama in the A.D.

03 Blue 07

October 9th, 2011 at 12:00 AM ^

That is actually mentioned in the book. Apparently, she makes some kick-ass nachos. Even if they are covered in tears after a Freep hit job. (Her nachos are mentioned during the narrative re: RR having the seniors over to his place after the Freep piece came out).

jabberwock

October 8th, 2011 at 2:22 PM ^

I think more AD support would have made winning a bit easier, and that winning would have silenced a LOT of the internal divisiveness.

Rich Rod's biggest mistake in my view was mishandling/meddling with the defense, particularly the DC.  The Shafer firing was a mistake, and the circumstanes behind that (and the subsequent GERG hiring) were pretty symbolic of his problems.

It does look like the various factions, agendas, and personalities (including RR's) made sure that RR's road to success was going to be uphill from the start.  A shame.

03 Blue 07

October 9th, 2011 at 12:05 AM ^

I will say this (and feel like I kinda should, because the folks reading the OP are getting one guy's view on a book written by another guy who had access to another guy who was caught up in a world populated by hundreds of other guys (and women, obv): RR dug his own grave. Period. And Bacon says this throughout the book: Had he won, it wouldn't have mattered. The handling of the defense was his undoing. He deserves the blame for what happened on the field, no doubt. Period.

Mitch Cumstein

October 8th, 2011 at 2:41 PM ^

Did Bacon write this book or did RR?  This sounds like a huge RR apology piece.  I need to read it for myself obviously, but this sounds pretty one sided.  If that is the truth, then that is the truth, and its important to get out.  I'm just surprised this is so one-sided pro RR and anti-Lloyd.  From Brian's first description of the book I thought it would just be taking shots at everyone.

wile_e8

October 8th, 2011 at 2:51 PM ^

FWIW There is still a lot of the book left - he hasn't gotten to the point where the defense goes from "below average for Michigan but that is partially due to constantly being hung out to dry by the offense" to "terrible by any standards" and RR's role in that happening.

Mitch Cumstein

October 8th, 2011 at 3:41 PM ^

Also based on a post from the OP above, he seems to be selectively including things that HE thought were interesting in his summary, ie. topics of infighting in the AD and sabotage of RR's tenure.  Apparently there is reporting of RR's football gaffs that aren't mentioned in the OP.  I just need to read the book.

03 Blue 07

October 9th, 2011 at 12:16 AM ^

For sure- you're absolutely right. But I will caution you, if you're wondering why things went poorly, X's and O's, or even personnel wise, (so far at least) this isn't going to give you that.

I will say that (also) you're completely correct that it's my  take on what jumped out at me. I don't reinforce stuff that is already all over the blog/was for years; for example, the coaches were well-aware of everything in Misopogon's treatise re: Decimated Defense. they didn't need charts.

And you may think it's a "one sided hit job," or whatever. But what about this: what if it's true? What if our AD was a power vacuum after Bo's death, beset with factions, infighting, etc? Read it yourself (I know you will), but try to keep an open mind. I, myself, am trying to do so and even take it all with a grain of salt, but knowing what we've all "known" the past 3 years, frankly, there's some Occam's Razor going on. Hopefully you get what I'm saying when you read it.

And again, consider the source. This isn't an (insert partisan political person here) book. This is a guy who loves Michigan as much as any of us who wrote this. And, again, a guy who was tight with Bo, was tight with the AD, won the Golden Apple, etc.,....what if it's true? What if it's true that there were factions, infighting, people looking out for themselves and those they thought should've gotten the job, disliking the new regime, etc....frankly, how could much of that not be true, if you (or anyone) has ever worked in a situation like the one that transpired- patriarch, leader, guy everyone loves and respects, passes away, then there's splintering, there are STRONG feelings on what SHOULD happen, and many are upset, etc...frankly it's human nature and organizational nature. So don't believe it, that's fine. But it's a lot harder NOT to believe that much of it is true. Even if you strip away what you could call "embellishment" in the book, you'll still (I think) be left with the realization that people are people. And people are petty, self-interested, self-righteous, etc. Hell, I'll be honest: I, at my own job, have very strong feelings on who should lead, who is full of shit, etc. And I know that my feelings are not, you know, what are necessarily those shared by management. But I'll be goddammed if I'm wrong (seriously). Now, just transpose that to an athletic department. And then it makes sense. These people aren't evil. They all care. THey just have very, very strong feelings that differ on what is best. And, I imagine, the ends justify the means at some point. Or it's not even that Machiavellian. It's a bunch of people who truly care, and have different opinions on what is best. It's a moral dilemma: if you truly believed that Ron English was the right guy, and that Rich Rodriguez was terrible for Michigan, would you not feel duty-bound to get the "real" story out? That's not unnatural. It's just that I, personally, think the people who did it, and the way that they did it, ended up undermining the whole thing they cared about- Michigan.

Or...they got what they wanted. And RR got fired. So...ends/means. Perhaps they were right all along.