Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • 2014 Recruiting Board, Offense
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home Diaries club_med's blog

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • Yet Another Da'Shawn Hand post
    canzior - 6 days ago
  • Baseball Recruiting—Hello: Nick Azar (+ other items)
    Raoul - 1 week ago
  • 2013 Women's Football Academy
    maizemama - 1 week ago
  • This Day In History: June 10, 1944 - Alumnus Ed Tipper
    wildbackdunesman - 1 week ago
  • Future Non-Conference Recruiting Watch, Vol. I, No. 3
    EGD - 1 week ago
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 6
  • ››
more
  • Yet Another Da'Shawn Hand post
    canzior - 2,929 views
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part II - THE MISTAKE)
    Ron Utah - 1,417 views
  • Devin and the White Rainbow
    MCalibur - 1,047 views
  • Who is Al Borges? (Part I)
    Ron Utah - 1,011 views
  • The Blockhams in "SPARTYCAN'T"
    Six Zero - 981 views
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • The Blockhams in "SPARTYCAN'T"
    Six Zero - 5 comments
  • APR And Big Ten Football: A High-Level Summary
    LSAClassOf2000 - 4 comments
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 2
  •  
more

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Michigan fits Steele's "National Championship Mold"
    38 replies
  • MGoProfile to Return This Week
    75 replies
  • One of the top DE in 2015 commits to GameCocks and trashes their academics!
    37 replies
  • ESPN Names Webber Top Draft Pick from B10 Since '89
    30 replies
  • MSU doesn't know who they're recruiting
    93 replies
  • (Mostly) OT: Michelle Chamuel of UM can win The Voice tonight (with votes)
    37 replies
  • Urban Meyer and Charlie Strong's "Core Values"
    132 replies
  • Burke & Hardway Jr Feature on BTN
    9 replies
  • Pretty OT: Golf Wedge Customization
    21 replies
  • ESPN Predicts Hand to M
    54 replies
  • OT: MCAT prep advice
    57 replies
  • OT: NCAA 14 Demo out tomorrow
    29 replies
  • High Noon with Rich Rodriguez and the Arizona Football Staff
    123 replies
  • ESPN Path to the Draft: No. 8 Michigan (Edit: Hoops)
    7 replies
  • B1G: Lunt to Illinois
    15 replies
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 8
  • ››
  • OT: NBA Finals Game 6 overtime open thread
    73 replies
  • UofMs solar car expecting to dominate world race
    16 replies
  • USF Camp (Cole/Scott)
    12 replies
  • NCAA 14 Demo thoughts; MGoBlogger PSN/Gamertag list
    85 replies
  • 2015 OL Jon Runyan Jr. Offered - Buckle Up
    88 replies
  • OT: Soccer - USMNT vs Honduras World Cup Qualifying Open Thread
    57 replies
  • MGoProfile to Return This Week
    75 replies
  • OT: Griffins win Calder Cup
    18 replies
  • 4* NJ TE/DE Garrett Dickerson's top 3: Stanford, M, Northwestern
    24 replies
  • OT- Alabama Installing Waterfalls In Football Locker Rooms
    61 replies
  • One of the top DE in 2015 commits to GameCocks and trashes their academics!
    37 replies
  • (Mostly) OT: Michelle Chamuel of UM can win The Voice tonight (with votes)
    37 replies
  • Story on MBB Pete Kahler's Family
    5 replies
  • OT - Pavel Datsyuk signs 3-yr extension with Red Wings
    43 replies
  • ESPN projects next three seasons, ranks M #5 ($)
    56 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 8
  • ››
  • NCAA 14 Demo thoughts; MGoBlogger PSN/Gamertag list
    85 replies
  • OT: Proud Father Moment (For All MGoDad's With Daughters)
    78 replies
  • Cornwell to Bama
    76 replies
  • OT: NBA Finals Game 4 Open Thread
    76 replies
  • MGoProfile to Return This Week
    75 replies
  • OT: NBA Finals Game 6 overtime open thread
    73 replies
  • Bryan Mone may early enroll
    72 replies
  • Very OT: Job Searching
    72 replies
  • Jamarco Jones Not Taking Remaining Unofficial Visits
    70 replies
  • Mattison - Vrabel exchange at SMSB ($)
    70 replies
  • Nebraska wins recruiting battle with OSU for 2014 QB Zack Darlington
    64 replies
  • B1G Stadium Rankings (AthlonSports.com)
    64 replies
  • OT: Derek Kief Picks Alabama
    62 replies
  • OT- Alabama Installing Waterfalls In Football Locker Rooms
    61 replies
  • Saturday Night Thread
    58 replies
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 8
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • SF Kameron Chatman Talks UConn

    ...talks about how UConn hasn't been in contact and how they're out. (HT: UMHoops)

    0 comments
  • AIRBHG Invades Steelemas!

    wow

    0 comments
  • NBA Job Interview: Trey Burke (With Scouting Report!)

    Jalen, Burke, and Simmons.

    0 comments
  • 2013 World Dwarf Games to be held at MSU

    Mike Hart the heavy favorite in the trolling competition

    0 comments
  • NBA draft rumors: Pistons like Cody Zeller, but not Trey Burke - Detroit Bad Boys

    just what the Pistons need: a third string center. Joe Dumars was replaced by a mean ol' alien a few years back you guys.

    4 comments
  • New college grads: Don’t sell your time for a living

    this would be a close approximation of hypothetical graduation speech

    9 comments
  • College World Series Misspells "College" On Dugout

    no you guys they're just super pumped about COLLLLLLLLLLLLEGE

    0 comments
  • Michigan no longer looking for a transfer quarterback, Brady Hoke says

    not a surprise

    0 comments
  • Babcock: 'Glendening will play at the next level, for sure''

    premature congrats. One thing we can be sure of: he'll take fewer asinine penalties than Abdelkader

    1 comments
  • Spurrier may have to come up with a new UT spelling joke.

    Thanks to ugly transitions between Fulmer/Kiffin/Dooley/Davis, Tennessee is on the edge of APR penalties for football.

    1 comments
  • Report: NCAA ditching domes prior to Final Four

    i approve of this message

    0 comments
  • San Antonio Spurs may be doing something right by drafting international athletes

    strong indictment of AAU right heah

    0 comments
  • NBA draft 2013 Toss Up: Better PG prospect, Trey Burke or Michael Carter-Williams

    Glockner sides with justice

    0 comments
  • Brady Hoke-coached fantasy camp raises $140K for prostate cancer research

    a good cause, and a good time

    0 comments
  • Michigan men's basketball receives high academic honor with APR Public Recognition Award

    good job gents

    0 comments
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more

Stopping momentum, part II

By club_med — December 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM — 8 comments
Filed under:
  • football
  • football
  • NCAA stats
  • stats

 

In the last installment, I investigated one case of what sports commentators refer to as “momentum” (where a team that makes a successful play will continue making to be successful): outcomes in overtime games. Looking through the CFBStats data from 2005-2011, I found that not only did teams that came from behind to force overtime fail to come out on top at an unusual rate, their outcomes were not affected by other factors such as being the home team or coming back from large deficits. However, I was not entirely exhaustive in my analysis, and two commenters, SpyinColumbus and cgnost, pointed out that it might be interesting to see what, if any role, rankings might play in determining outcomes in overtime.

 

As it turned out, integrating Sagarin rankings into the CFBStats data was fairly straightforward, and I created a table that matches the CFBStats ID codes (which are the same as used in the NCAA data that CFBStats is built from) with the names that Sagarin uses in his published data. So if you are working with these two data sets and want to put them together, here is the file to integrate these data sources, which is covered by an ODC PDDL (public domain).

 

With this in mind, the first order of business was to address the issue of what, if any, differences emerge in terms of Sagarin rankings in determining overtime outcomes compared to whether or not teams come from behind. In essence, do teams that come from behind beat their Sagarin predictions? If so, this might suggest that teams coming from behind are bringing some momentum into overtime.

 

Again, I am considering the set of 230 overtime games from 2005-2011 (dropping the 2005 Arkansas State-Florida Atlantic 0-0 EOR game). I will focus on Sagarin’s “PREDICTOR” model as he regards this as the most useful predictor of game outcomes, though I will also present some analysis using “RATING” and “ELO_CHESS.” PREDICTOR accounts for margin of victory, while ELO_CHESS only considers game outcomes (Sagarin describes it as more “politically correct”). RATING is a synthesis of the two. I also used the year-by-year home advantage values to adjust these ratings, including the 2011 addition of separate values for home advantage for each of the ranking systems. Neutral site games are not adjusted.

 

One important limitation of this analysis is that, because historical week-by-week Sagarin rankings are not available to my knowledge, all of this analysis is based on his year-end rankings. Because end-of-year rankings are determined by performance in-season, this brings up considerable endogeneity issues that cannot be easily dismissed. The best way to address this would be with the week-by-week rankings, and so if anyone knows of historical data, please let me know and I will see if this changes the results in any meaningful way.

 

To characterize the results, the first analysis I considered with regard to the ranking was general prediction of overtime outcomes. Sagarin’s rankings use scales with higher values indicating a higher ranked team, and, at least with PREDICTOR, the expected margin of victory. To predict outcomes based on Sagarin’s rankings, I subtracted the PREDICTOR, RATING and ELO_CHESS values of the losing team from the winning team. Thus, positive values indicate that the higher ranked team won (a “normal” outcome) and negative values indicate an “upset.” Based on this, we see the following results for overtime games:

 

 

PREDICTOR

RATING

ELO_CHESS

Normal

123 (53.5%)

129 (56.1%)

132 (57.4%)

Upsets

107

101

98

Total

230

230

230

 

Sagarin’s hit rate for overtime games is about 57% at best and 54% at worst, depending on which of his models is being used. It is worth noting that among non-overtime games, his hit rate is much better (between 78.4% and 80.2% in games between 2005-2011), but this is not surprising because overtime games represent a small sample of games between more closely matched teams (average difference between teams for the ranking systems in non-overtime games is between 10.0 and 10.2 while for overtime games it is between .3 and 1.1). How do Sagarin’s rankings look when considering the way in which overtime is forced?

 

To do this analysis, I modified my measures somewhat to make the results more interpretable. Since I was focused on teams coming from behind, I subtracted the PREDICTOR rating of the leading team from that of the team that came from behind. This difference therefore represents Sagarin’s predicted outcome for the team coming from behind – if it is less than zero, then the team coming from behind would be predicted to lose the game, while if it is greater than zero, they would be predicted to win.

 

The overall average for the from behind PREDICTOR difference score is -1.44, which is significantly different from zero (t(229) = -2.19, p < .05), indicating that, on average, teams coming from behind were predicted to lose. A logistic regression with the from-behind PREDICTOR difference score as the independent variable and the game’s outcome as the dependent variable revealed that these differences in PREDICTOR scores did not predict the games’ outcome (Exp(β) = 1.002, p > .85). To further clarify this relationship, I split the data into games where the team coming from behind was predicted to lose (that is, had a PREDICTOR score less than zero) and where these teams were predicted to win (PREDICTOR>0), and compared this to the games’ overall outcome:

 

 

From behind loss

From behind win

Total

From behind predicted loss

76

58

134

From behind predicted win

50

46

96

 

126

104

230

(χ2(1) = .49, p >.48)

 

What this tells us is that rankings and game outcomes are independent of one another. More directly, while teams coming from behind to tie the game up are more likely to have been predicted to lose, these predictions did not affect how they performed in overtime.

 

In the context of momentum, this provides further evidence that coming from behind has no effect on game outcomes. Overall, Sagarin rankings are a barely weighted coin flip in overtime games, and how the teams became deadlocked in regulation does not affect this coin in any way.

 

Thanks, again, for reading, and to cgnost for prompting this analysis. In the next installment, I’ll continue the search for evidence of momentum in traditional defensive stops (those not ending in fumbles, interceptions or safeties), with a special focus on my favorite play in all of football: the goal line stand. Go blue.

  • club_med's blog
  • Login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
December 3rd, 2012 at 12:07 PM | DEAR BRIAN: I am 8 years old. (Score:4 Normal)
UMgradMSUdad
UMgradMSUdad's picture
Joined: 07/02/2011
MGoPoints: 2059

DEAR BRIAN: I am 8 years old. 

Some of my little friends say there is no such thing as Momentum.

Papa says, 'If you see it in on MGoBlog it's so.' 

Please tell me the truth; is there Momentum?



VIRGINIA O'HANLON.

115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 3rd, 2012 at 12:08 PM | I'd be interested to combine (Score:2)
ChopBlock
ChopBlock's picture
Joined: 12/11/2011
MGoPoints: 1502

I'd be interested to combine overtime rules with that Game Theory Predictor that Brian uses all the time. That is, if you're on offense first in OT, should you go for the 4th and 1 from the 19? It would require figuring out both your odds of success, and the probability that the other team will score a TD vs a FG.

Of course, even armed with the knowledge, coaches will still pull a Mark Richt and manage to lose the game for their teams in OT.

"The straightest line from A to B is straight: From A to B"

"When you have Denard Robinson, you can have everything"

~George Walden

  • Login or register to post comments
December 3rd, 2012 at 12:50 PM | Great work (Score:2)
cgnost
Joined: 04/19/2010
MGoPoints: 91

Outstanding.

 

Another hypotheses:

 

We know game results are highly dependent on turnovers, which might suggest that some teams "play better" than their opponent but are forced into overtime because of turnovers.  I would guess that overtime performance is negatively correlated with turnover margin during the regulation portion of the game.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 3rd, 2012 at 1:13 PM | Stat Question (Score:2)
biakabutuka exp...
biakabutuka explosion 3000's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 2171

Is there a site where the scoring sequence in games is available, preferably in a digestible spreadsheet format?

I'm looking for something like the "scoring summary" here, but for an entire season's worth of games. And if it included every team in cfb, that would be even better. I'm not afraid to do a little data mining if I must.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 3rd, 2012 at 11:47 PM | http://www.cfbstats.com/blog/college-football-data/ (Score:2 Normal)
TSS
TSS's picture
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 1345

csv formats... but beware of some mistakes.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 6th, 2012 at 10:53 AM | Probably won't see this since (Score:1)
club_med
club_med's picture
Joined: 05/20/2010
MGoPoints: 319

Probably won't see this since its several days later, but I ran a query that should be pretty much what you're looking for. Here you go. Let me know if you need something different.

the crowds on the shore will always yell "Let's Go Blue."

  • Login or register to post comments
December 9th, 2012 at 1:43 PM | Club,  Where did you pull (Score:1)
TSS
TSS's picture
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 1345

Club,  Where did you pull this from and how did you do it?  The headers don't look familiar.

  • Login or register to post comments
December 3rd, 2012 at 1:56 PM | Momentum effects in BB were also shown to be a fallacy (Score:1)
michelin
Joined: 09/22/2009
MGoPoints: 494

eg Tversky tested for such effects in sequential free throws by Larry Bird and found that such effects were nil after correcting for the base rate (eg an overall 90% FT pct by LB).  Similar results were found from ordinary shots from a distance on the court.

Your work is very interesting and supports the above conclusions nicely.

The results also make me think about presumed momentum effects in stock prices.  Some research has shown these effects to occur--and there are plausible reasons for why they could persist in the market.  (eg a tendency of some investors to try to recoup their losses.  Thus, they hold on to losing stocks too long, resulting in prolonged periods of selling by different investors at different delays due to differences in the magnitudes of their own losses).  

Recently, however, some people who analyze the results of high frequency trading assert (without much empirical evidence) that these momentum effects have largely disappeared.  The high frequency (HF) traders presumably capitalize on evidence of price momentum in an instant, leaving little room for other investors to capitalize on further momentum trading. I am not sure if that is true, but if so, it would suggest that an illusion of momentum now also exists in the market. 

The big question, however, is whether momentum effects could be nil in very short time frames (because HF traders absorb all the trends) and whether they could still exist in longer time frames, such as weeks or months.  As you suggested, a similar question could exist about the time frame of possible momentum effects in FB games.

michelin

  • Login or register to post comments
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.