Flat out, we need numbers. Like 3 more players. We won't get that this year.
Something Doesn't Add Up
After reading this in Rivals today...
"At this point, Michigan is going to take a pass on Cleveland (Ohio) Glenville cornerback Mike Edwards … and we don’t expect them to offer Youngstown (Ohio) Ursuline cornerback Dale Peterman, either..."
...I became confused. We have these cornerbacks available next year, as reported to my surprise by Wolverinekeith:
A junior, three sophs and a freshman. And that is if we pray the Turner doesn't get a growth spurt. If, for example, Warren and Cissoko were to get hurt, what in God's name would we have on the field?
Now, the confusion is not linked to these recruits specifically. I watch a lot of football and my eyes see other teams with recruits rated vastly lower than our typical CBs that look just fine to me, at least on par with our horribleness in recent months. Sometimes I hear of a stud CB on a middle-tier team and I run to the computer and discover he was a 2 star. Or a converted 2 star WR. WVU, for example, fielded a no star and a three star starters on that team that destroyed Oklahoma.
Maybe some of these guys were seniors, maybe they were outliers, but my point is that RR needs raw material here and we are being awful scary-choosy with our numbers so thin. Pacman Jones was a two star that he did good things with (skill-wise, not brain-wise). Many of our four stars have not been good. It would seem to me that we need about 5 more CBs on our roster in the day and age of the spread and we are working it like we have 10 upperclassman in hand. Perhaps this points to confidence that he can get some of these southern studs he is wooing, but this to me seems to be a numbers game and I am thinking someone like Peterman might look good in a couple weeks.
Disclaimer: I am not criticizing RR's recruiting. He has done stunningly well in his short time here with a difficult season working against him. I am just wondering what I am missing as it relates to the numbers here.
No offense chitown, but numbers only gets you bodies, unless you are a USC where the numbers are 4* or higher. I'd like to have several high ranked cb's coming in, but if we don't get them, I won't be upset about it. Good safety play can make up for meh corner play, and IMO, is much more important to a good secondary than a shutdown corner is. I am hoping that several of the younger safeties on our team can step it up big this year.
But the more players you throw at it, the greater the chance one works out. I understand that we want 4* players and all, but they're not guarantees of anything.
On top of that, good safety play is independent of corner play. Poor corner play limits a defense's opportunities to play certain defensive schemes and blitz as often. If the safeties always have to play deep to back up sucky corners, then they can't play close to the line to support the run, blitz off the edge, etc.
well in the 2010 recruiting class we are looking at some standout db's in lo wood, mrob, dior mathis, and a safety from cal named sean parker.
Perhaps they have character issues? If a guy's going to be a detriment to your team in the locker room, he might not be worth the effort. I have no idea if they do have character issues, but perhaps there's more to it.
I'm in the middle of reading "Meat Market" right now, so maybe I'm just paranoid about character.
I get that, but no way is that the reason. LONG way to NLOI day for this class, let alone next year's. You don't bank schollies on kids that could help the team because you feel like you have a good shot at current HS juniors in the 2010 class.
I'm hoping this bodes well for Denard/Thames, etc., but I don't know. Edwards is a head-scratcher. Lot of OSU fans wanted OSU to offer... then again, maybe if a Glenville kid isn't getting an OSU offer, that says something (not that they all do, but it says something).
what is this, cornerback panic day?
i generally dont see cb as a bulk position. injuries are rare and guys often play as true freshmen. it's not like o-line where you just want a bunch of bodies. you take a blue chipper here and there and you're set. 5 guys is cutting it close, but if they can play, you dont need a bunch more guys to sit on the bench and play tiddlywinks.
The confusion is not simply that WE think that there aren't enough corners, it's that the coaches tell one commit (Peace) that they didn't recruit enough corners and need him to play there, then they turn around and withhold offers from two well-regarded players who might have been interested.
I'm inclined to trust the evaluations of the coaching staff. Perhaps they just don't think these two players are good enough to contribute, and that they only want to add to our current group if it is one of the 4 or 5 star guys, but I agree that the two things are head-scratching when juxtaposed.
I'm playing a drinking game where I drink three every time someone references tiddlywinks.
I just drank three.
.............and now I've had to drink six times. Thanks!
I don't understand this. Why do we have a gazillion RB for 1 1/2 spots? What is a dime package? We have four returning CB in a position we were not good at and only one is experienced! I am petrified. The larger point is that RR is passing on kids he would have given a kidney for at WVU at a position of need. Odd.
They may have not had interest in UM or they told him they would commit elsewhere.
"the coaches tell one commit (Peace) that they didn't recruit enough corners and need him to play there"
where did the coaches tell peace they didnt recruit enough corners? i'm not at all convinced that's how this went down
Obviously, I'm just going by Peace's comments. His claim is that he wanted to play wide receiver, had been told that he would be able to compete at WR throughout his recruitment, then was recently told that because we failed to land enough corners the coaches wanted him to play corner exclusively. He said no, and de-committed.
While we have to take what a de-committed prospect says with a grain of salt, the story at least makes sense. Why would the coaching staff only now insist that he play corner if they weren't concerned about depth at the position? Why would he remain committed until now if they had told him all along that he'd at least get a look at WR? Sure, there could be other explanations. But this is (1) the only one any one has offered, and (2) eminently sensible.
Peace says that's what they say. Also, it's what their actions say, as they've offered around 12 CB's, and then when only one committed, they rescinded their promise to Peace about playing WR.
And no, it's not a "bulk position", but 5 players is exceedingly thin.
-Warren (2 year starter)
-Cissoko (sporadic playing time as a true freshman, ran hot and cold)
-Justin Turner (assuming he holds, he will be true freshman
-RS Sophomore Troy Woolfolk (no appreciable playing time in 3 years in Ann Arbor
-RS Freshman JT Floyd (maybe, he may be a Safety - no playing experience)
So, we have two players that have played a snap. By not getting a single player we are pretty much banking that two of Turner, Woolfolk, and Floyd are ready for real playing time next year.
I'm skeptical about Woolfolk, because as the entire secondary went into flames last year, he didn't earn a snap of playing time. Floyd was marginally recruited, and Turner is a top recruit who has never played the position that we pray to god doesn't get much bigger lest he outgrow the position.
That's just very, very, thin, and there aren't a lot of options if ANYTHING goes wrong.
One has to be impressed that they were straight with Peace. They could have left him with the impression that he would get a shot at WR and then eased him to CB. They told him straight up the situation.
Perhaps our reader of Meat Market could comment if that is a typical recruiting behavior.
I'm only halfway through the book, but the author at least makes it seem like Ed Orgeron is pretty straight with his players/recruits. That's the only coach it really concentrates on. There's negative recruiting/rumors/lies from coaches when they're trying to talk a kid out of going somewhere else, but they seem pretty realistic when they talk about the opportunities at their own school.
...could Zac Johnson be a serviceable corner? I know he's a walk on but he's #3 on the depth chart and is turning into a special teams stud. Would he be an acceptable stop-gap measure?
I like the way Zach Johnson plays on special teams, but I don't know if he's a viable cornerback. I could see him playing some slot corner or a little safety in an emergency situation, but cornerback takes a special talent to play. He's a good tackler, though. Aside from Zoltan, Johnson might have been our best special teamer last year.
that some of the current WR crew turn to CB. According to mgoblue.com we have 7 CBs when you throw out Dutch and Trent. Still though 1 with any legitimate exp. 11 WRs. Not including recruites.
Rogers is probably the only one who could/might play corner.
I thought Floyd transferred out.
IIRC Peterman had some grade issues he was trying to work out? Maybe he didn't do well enough in class so the coaches didn't extend the offer?
That is a good point as it relates directly to Peterman, but I am wondering about the bigger picture. Perhaps they feel they have a very good line on two more guys and feel that a class of three CBs is enough.
I find Edwards to be the odder story. Seems like a good prospect, as I mentioned earlier, lots of knowledgable OSU fans wanted OSU to offer, and it'd be nice to pull our first PLCPW Glenville recruit (Post Lloyd Carr/Pierre Woods). Not saying that alone is the reason to go after him... just a bonus. But as one poster said, I certainly trust our coaches evaluations. It's just that you don't bank schollies at a position of need, and as many have pointed out - regardless of whether or not we think CB is a position of need, the number of CBs we've made a run at this year suggest the staff thinks it is.
Excellent point here. And maybe, with Edwards in the fold and Hall's friendship with Campbell, we have a shot at Hall.
It's not necessarily that they don't want him, it could be that, since Ginn Sr. seems to have it out for Michigan, we're not bothering.
With all the talk that RR is improving the UM-Ginn, Sr. relationship. I realize that's just "talk", but you get what I mean. RR doesn't seem the "back down, we don't have a chance" type of guy.