Short Changed Hero

Submitted by MCalibur on

[ed: bump]

I can't see where you’re comin' from / but I know just what you’re runnin' from / And what matters ain't the who's baddest / but the ones who stop you fallin' from your ladder.

-The Heavy

 

MSU Sack1 THIS AINT NO PLACE FOR NO HERO TO CALL HOME

 

For a little over four years now I’ve had a summer time hobby of trying to predict plausible performance levels from various QBs for the upcoming football season. I have tried to root these projections as deeply into the bedrock of reality as is possible for a figment of one’s imagination and at this point there is a codex of sorts in the diary archives describing my methods. It’s fun to go back and see what worked and learn from what didn’t. There’s something there, man.

For Devin Gardner 2013 I laid out two stat lines hinging on two sets of assumptions—a reasonable/prudent set, and a ‘sexy’ set. The reasonable prediction: Gardner would complete 225 of 360 passes for 2900 yards, 23 TDs, and 10 INTs. In reality he went 208 of 345 for 2960 yards, 21 TDs, and 11 INTs. There’s a HEAVY dose a good fortune involved there but, hot damn, that’s pretty good. The assumptions here were basically looking at only QB stats and nothing else Devin had shown enough in his 5 QB starts during the 2012 season to perform at the “seasoned veteran QB” level which I think of as an incumbent with 2 years of experience in tow. That's a brutal benchmark, IMO but that's what I measure guys up against. That's what we want them to be.

Anyway, the sexy set of assumptions were:

  1. Devin has elite talent. I believe this one held. More on that later.
  2. The O-line would be fine despite the possibility of being “a touch weaker than last year (2012).” Eh boy…
  3. The offensive scheme would be well tailored to Gardner’s skill set and that of the support around him. This was sometimes true but not consistently often enough for Borges to keep his job.

PSU sack4Ok, so the necessary assumptions for DG to be the second coming of Vince Young vanished into the ether. But those last two assumptions about the support and scheme are really kind of baked into the reasonable prediction too. For my money, the fact that DG put up the numbers he was able to in spite of the glaring flaws of the team is a testament to just how good he can be if the conditions are reasonable.

The fact that there are so many straight-faced questions being asked about Devin Gardner’s incumbency status is ludicrous. Sure, numbers don’t tell the whole story but they tell a good part of it. DG went from being one of the darlings of the 2013 Manning Passing Academy to needing to prove his talent simply because he couldn't compensate for all of the flaws around him last season. He did as well as could reasonably be expected without adjusting for other very real headwinds.

 

[After THE JUMP: Gardner under the microscope.]

Sandcastles Are Destined for Destruction

Having said all that, there is obviously significant room for improvement. Let us decompose the white rainbow:

2013 Rating: 146.1 Cmp % YPA TD % INT %
Actual Values 0.603 8.580 0.061 0.032
Expected Values 0.627 8.033 0.070 0.021
Single Factor Rating 136.3 156.7 140.9 122.6

One of my fundamental hypotheses is that Completion Percentage and Interception Rate are mostly attributable to the QB’s Skill level whereas Yards per Attempt and Touchdown Rate are attributable to System and Support in addition to player skill. So, while Devin had a very good overall passer rating in 2013, it was bolstered by a abnormally strong YPA. The other three components lagged the rating and the two most attributable to Devin’s skill (according to me, let’s talk about it) were way off of where we would expect them to be given 11 years worth of data to compare against.

I find all of this somewhat confusing and basically contradictory to the things I actually believe: that Devin is capable of elite play if he were privy to resources (supporting performances, sound offensive system) that would enable him to perform that way. Yet last years data show the things he is in sole control of (decision making and accuracy) weren’t where they “should have been.” What gives? Enter another hypothesis: player skill does not regress; you don’t suddenly forget the things you’ve learned.

2012 Rating: 161.7 Cmp % YPA TD % INT %
Actual Values 0.595 9.675 0.087 0.040
Expected Values 0.662 8.828 0.082 0.015
Single Factor Rating 133.0 178.1 175.0 106.9

Comparing 2013 to 2012 reveals that Devin in fact improved his skill level as quantified by Cmp % and Int % where as the Support and System around him (YPA, TD%) declined dramatically. We know this by simply having watched the games, but its nice when the objective measurements validate our subjective observations. Reconciling all of the available data suggests, at least for me, that Devin did in fact improve despite lacking a running game and dependable pass protection but the interaction between system and support attenuated our ability to detect that improvement.

Once More Unto the Breach

My rubric for establishing an expectation for future QB performance hinges on 4 main factors: Skill, System, Support, and Statistics. Also schedule. Five, there are 5 chief weapons I use to project QB performance… /Spanish inquisition. Where does Devin stand going into 2014?

Skill

If its not yet clear, I think Devin is every bit as talented as he needs to be in order to be a absolute monster. Notre Dame can testify. With renewed health, additional experience, and actual technical development with a position coach and everything, I expect to see the best Devin yet from a skills standpoint in 2014.

nussmeier System

Borges got fired, so that says something. But, different isn’t always better. The thing that frustrated me and a lot of others lat year was the seeming incoherence of it all. When it worked (Notre Dame, Ohio State) it was awesome, otherwise we had nothing. Installing new schemes or whatever seemingly from week to week worked for a minute and then it didn't. At the very least I think it’s reasonable to expect that Nussmeier will at least bring coherence. But its hard to expect the team to master a new system the first time out.

The system also benefits from the quality of the players in it which brings us to…

 

Support

I break this up into 2 subgroups*: Skill Support (RB, WRs) and Shield Support (the line). 

Skill Support: Normally I get worried when we lose a player as productive as Jeremy Gallon was but, I kinda think we’re stacked at receiver. Funchess, Darboh, Chesson, Norfleet, Canteen and friends. I’m eager to see Chesson and Funchess blocking downfield for Norfleet on a little slot screen deal. That sounds like fun.

As for the running game, I’m pretty stoked to hear that Deveon Smith is distinguishing himself as the guy at RB. I’ve had a diary in draft for while that tries to objectively compare running back performances in a similar way as passer rating does for quarterbacks. That work suggests Smith performed better than Green last year. I’ll try to get that diary out in the not too distant future so you can see what I’m seeing but let it suffice to say that I’m buying the Smith hype. This is not to say that Green can’t or wont be good, just that I suspected Smith was ahead of him based on the numbers.

Michigan is better off in this area in 2014 than it was in 2013.

Shield Support: This would be the $64,000 question. I’ll admit that this is an area I know little about. The quality of offensive linemen quality is hard to measure. I've done a some work that shows that, in general, having a lot of returning starts on the Oline is a good thing (duh); the problem is that Michigan doesn’t have a lot of returning starts on the Oline this year. Its actually worse off than it was as a group going into 2013. Then there’s the issue of losing two NFL worthy tackles, one of which was an elite prospect.

Its hard to make that situation look good, but the argument I’ll put forward is that replacing two starters on the line is better than replacing three. Additionally, the replacements last year were mostly redshirt freshmen and had zero in game experience, the stables are stronger this year.  From this view we are better off than last year. I’ll admit this is largely wishful thinking but I think its at least plausible. I’m going to go ahead and say that the Oline will improve from terrible to mediocre despite the loss of Lewan and Schofield. Hooray?

*Six! Our six principal weapons are….

Statistics

This is just another word starting with the correct letter so that I can keep my little S thing going but I’m referring to regression to the mean here. Its pretty basic stuff if you believe in math but I go about applying the concept in a way that violates what I was taught was proper in school. So here’s another breakdown:

Binned Average Procedure

These three charts show the progression (as you proceed in clockwise fashion) of what happens to the data as I manipulate it to get to the point where I pick off my adjustment factor. The top left is the raw data for a bunch of returning players and how they’re rating changed from where they were the previous season. There is a nice trend but its still pretty weak (R_squared = 0.31) for the purposes of prediction. In the second chart I have binned the data along the x-axis which has no real effect on the trend (R_squared = 0.30)  but the magic happens when progressing to the third chart. There I have averaged each bin to reveal its true central tendency which allows the strength of the trend pops (R_squared = 0.94).

Here’s the issue that I’m attempting to address. In the first chart, each data point has equal influence on the least squares regression. The problem is that the points that fall way off the trend have a lot more leverage than the points that are close to the it even though the high leverage observations are vastly outnumbered. We all know how important sample size is to data analysis so why would we ignore this knowledge?

A different way to explain the logic at play here is that each bin represents a different normal distribution of real observations at a particular point along the trend. The changes that occur for players that post bad ratings manifest for different reasons than those that occur for players that post good ratings. The bin averages allow us to connect the peaks of each bin distribution.

I’m not a mathematician so I can’t provide a proof that this is a legitimate manipulation of the data. Maybe one of you is smart/educated enough to prove/disprove the concept. I am not.

Anyway, the final equation is  y = -0.7449x + 97.22 and Devin’s current x is 146.1. So based on reversion alone we’d expect his 2014 rating to drop 11.6 points to 135.5.

One last not about this finding: basic algebra shows that 130 is the Mendoza line for passer rating.

Schedule

This is diary unto itself but looking at the defenses Michigan will be facing in 2014 there is 1 scary defense (MSU), 2 decent ones (PSU, Utah), and 8 defenses that mediocre or worse. Some will go up others will go down but its hard to expect that we will end up facing a defensive slate that is all that difficult. This should be a favorable schedule to put up good offensive numbers overall.

All told I think the Devin’s rating will tread water but he should be able to post a “legit” 145. That means:

2014 Rating: 145

Cmp % YPA TD % INT %
Expected Values 0.624 7.976 0.069 0.022

The improvement in interception rate is way too aggressive so I’m overriding that to be a more modest 0.028. The YPA seems low to me as I expect Nussmeier to leverage the receiving corps, a presumed strength, to protect the offensive line, the presumed weakness. So I think YPA will be a touch higher, say, 8.3 ish. Quarterbacks under Nussmeier as OC have averaged about 28 attempts per game which translates into about 365 attempts over 13 games.

Devin Garnder 2014 Att Cmp YDS TD INT
Predicted Statline 365 230 3000 25 10

The critical assumptions here are:

  1. The receiving corps will be a strength
  2. Devin will show modest improvement in accuracy (completion percentage and interception rate.
  3. Nussmeier will leverage assumptions 1 and 2 to create a pass happy offense.
  4. The offensive line will be good enough to allow 2 and 3 to manifest.

I still think Devin has a the potential to be an absolute monster (160+) but these numbers are already very aggressive and the team needs to overcome significant issues to make them real. Let’s hope the ones keeping Devin on his ladder are up to the task.

Gardnerbeast

And you feel like you feelin' now / Doin' things just to please your crowd / Well I love you like the way I love you / and I suffer but I ain't gon’ cut you 'cause…

Comments

Drenasu

August 12th, 2014 at 7:21 PM ^

This isn't a criticism of your work and is possibly not even relevant to your writeup, but it seems to me that the best way to look at OL performance is not to look at averages across the 5 starters.  Instead, the performance/quality of the either the worst or perhaps the second worst player on the line (in case you can scheme around one poorly performing lineman) seems most relevant.  The old adage that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link seems to apply.

 

This approach makes more sense to me - if more difficult to implement.  Many people thought we should have been better last year because we had two NFL ready tackles, but their great performances were often completely wasted because our lower performing lineman were collapsing much of the game.  That's why averages doesn't seem to work to me because if you average our OL ability from last year, you'd probably wind up with something close to an average college football line and we know that wasn't the case.

 

This is also why I am at least a little optimistic about the OL this year, because while our tackles will be worse, our interior should be better and now there should not be as much of a collapse as there was last year.  I guess we'll see how it goes.

harmon40

August 15th, 2014 at 1:15 PM ^

If you were defending a pentagon-shaped castle against a barbarian invasion, which of the five walls could you leave undefended or undermanned and still maintain the integrity of your overall defense?

None, of course.  Each wall most hold, or none of them will.

Also: it wasn't just the OL that were too young last year - it was also the TE's, who caught well but blocked poorly. Just too many frosh all the way around.

Take heart, my friends; the talent is there.  We shall reap if we do not faint.

acnumber1

August 12th, 2014 at 9:26 PM ^

Your summer hobby is better than mine, but my summer hobby tends to have more mgothreads started about it.  

Speaking thereof, where is the Tuesday night drinking thread?

It must be integrated into the Tiger Apocalypse thread...

Dudeski

August 15th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^

I don't think your binning/averaging approach works. It only compresses the data around the best fit line, which simply reduces the variance to be explained. Given the definition of R^2, it’s not surprising at all to see its value jump near 1.

If you’re worried about outliers and high leverage points, try using some form of robust regression (e.g., M-estimator). Though to be honest, I’m really not sure that would be worth it: to my eye, the plots don’t seem to reveal any huge outlier issues.

Overall, I would say a .31 R^2 is actually pretty impressive given that this is just a bivariate relationship.

Ivan Karamazov

August 15th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^

Doesnt his approach actually increase the influence of some of the outliers? I.e. the bins with less points to average, which tend to be outliers, count the same as those bins with many more points in the final regression.  Intuitively it makes sense that there should be a cluster closer to y=0 but the final plot glosses over that in favor of high R^2 with a "clean" looking plot.

Dudeski

August 15th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^

yes, that's right.
 
One way to think about this is that the initial regression results were estimated using the smallest bins possible (i.e., one bin per observation). By binning, we artificially boost the R^2, and also introduce some bias in the regression estimates. This suggests that the first model should be the one we use to predict, not the last model (though we probably shouldn't put too much stock in these predictions anyway). 
 
For DG, we have:
 
78.564 - .5677 × 146.1 = -4.37697
 
Less bad...

Michigan4Life

August 15th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^

is based on potential. No matter how you slice it, it's going to be difficult to replace Gallon's production.  Hard to say that they're stacked if they're not proven other than Funchess.

tlhwg

August 15th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^

because Devin has strengths and weaknesses and it's Nuss's job to exploit the former and mitigate the latter.  I don't ever see Devin being a pro-style pocket-passer and if Nuss tries to use him in this way, well...that would be bad for the O.

HipsterCat

August 15th, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^

Finding the balance between DGs running ability and still being a "pro-style" downhill running attack is basically why borges was fired, he could never blend the two in a comprehensive plan.

Nuss does have some experience with this style from his UW days with Jake Locker and Keith Price so hopefully we will have consistency from that stand point. 

UMdad

August 15th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^

Having played QB (only in H.S.) I can attest that having a struggling O line is a very difficult mental hurdle as well as physical hurdle.  Even on plays where the line doesn't allow pressure, your internal clock and mechanics are already impaired by the relelntless beating you have taken on previous plays.  My question with Gardner is will he be forever lacking that confidence and security ( a la David Carr, Ken O'Brien, Jeff George, Tim Couch - who all found themselves in the top 15 of the all time sacked in a season list before they were 25 years old), or will he be able to forget last year and start fresh.  The difference between standing calmly in the pocket and stepping smoothly into a throw, and dropping back 60% sure someone is one step away from knocking your head off are two hugely different things.  Statisticians count sacks and hurries, incompletions and completions, but it is hard to quantify that additional factor.

I think he performed admirably last year under tough circumstances, but it might be tougher than people realize to recover completely.

Surveillance Doe

August 15th, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^

It's a little different, but I'm a hockey player, so that's where my brain goes. Playing in front of a goalie you can trust completely changes your approach to the game, even in subtle subconscious ways that still bear out massively different results, when compared to playing in front of a goalie you can't trust. Last year, once teams knew they could overwhelm our line, all bets were off, and it reminded me of playing in front of a terrible goalie. You don't run your scheme; you just try to avoid disaster.

MayOhioEatTurds

August 15th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^

I agree, the confidence issue is huge.  Having experienced the abomination that was last year's OL, can Gardner forget?  It will be very interesting to watch this season. 

In any case, my hat is off to the man.  There were a couple games last year where I felt sick for Gardner.  It was something like watching the Lennox Lewis v. Mike Tyson fight:  I've never felt any afinity for Tyson, but from one human to another, I felt bad for him that night.

flashOverride

August 15th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^

I agree wholeheartedly. I think suggestions that Gardner could find himself at WR and Morris at QB by midseason are crazy and coming from people who aren't looking at the big picture. I sincerely believe Devin is an elite QB. With even mediocre pass protection and balance from a downhill running game, he can show it this year.

shallowcal

August 15th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^

To not see fitz running sideways four yards behind the line of scrimmage.  I think a more downhill running game will help the offensive line and gardner.  Last year it seemed like the other team could be as aggressive as they wanted getting upfield whether it was run or pass.  If the opposing teams defense has to account for a downhill runner and it delays them from just taking off on the snap even a little it will in turn help dg and the oline.  

And if nuss can take advantage of teams aggressive rush like san Francisco did to suh and the lions with their "wham" play we will be in good shape.

harmon40

August 15th, 2014 at 1:03 PM ^

I remember Rick Mirer carving us up at ND stadium back in '90.  Later with the Bears, he couldn't complete a simple screen pass. It had to be something mental.

Having a solid ground attack this year will send Devin's confidence soaring. Our RB's, OL, and TE's, though still young, are very talented and have a year under their belts.  I think our offense will be more consistent, less predictable...and play action will make sense again.

If Devin sees early on this season that he can trust his ground game...wow, he could really become a stone cold killer, fearless and devastating, firing like a cannon, running like a deer, and dissecting defenses with ruthless, pitiless efficiency. 

Can't wait!!

[EDIT: I meant to respond to UMdad and Dangdangdang]

The FannMan

August 15th, 2014 at 1:18 PM ^

I am sorry, but I don't see where all of the Gardner as elite monster QB hero is coming from.  Per ESPN, he was 32 out of 130 in QB rankning last year.  That's just inside of the top 25%, which is good, but is not an elite monster.  The projected 145 for 2104 would actually drop him a few spots.

It seems that when evaluating Devin, Michigan fans are perfectly willing to allow him the excuses of a bad offense, while ignoring the fact that he was part of that offense.  His game has limits that impacted the offense and contributed its woes.  For example, he wasn't able to consistently read and deliver quickly so as to force defenses to take a step back from the line of scrimmage. He also reverted to his tendency to double back and spin away from pressure when he should have gotten rid of the ball.  He also had "Gallon-lock" in key situations.

I am not suggesting that Devin shouldn't start.  He is celarly our QB this year.  I am also not saying that he sucks or anything like that.  My point is that he is what he is - a good QB with some serious flaws in his game who loves Michigan and plays his heart out for us.   Let's appreciate him for that and not blame everyone else on the team if he doesn't get flown to New York in December.

 

jdon

August 15th, 2014 at 10:30 PM ^

I think Brian did pretty well here... and I think we all know that Devin definitely was part of the problem on occasion. The difference is that I assume that most of us Suzy Sunshines see his holding the ball too long or trying to stretch out a play to a negative effect as a result of the weak line/Fubar'ed offense. 

I assume that this year Gardner should perform well and will have two or three games that are fucking amazing... In a way it is a shame the guy never really got to run an offense taylored to him Coupled with the talent to shine (unless this is the year!)

jdon

 

CoachBP6

August 15th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^

The addition of Nuss to this offensive skill set is going to work wonders for DG.  You can't understate what Nuss has done with every QB he has put his hands on, and Devin Gardner will be no different.  Last year DG had ups and downs but was stuck in an offense with no identity, no ability to audible out of a failure at the LOS, and no ability to establish a running game.  Yet when Devin was given time to throw the football he had stretches where he was spectacular and looked very, very solid.  I expect him to improve off last seasons numbers because Nuss simplifies things and Devin has had another off season to get better in every aspect of his game.  We will have a much better running attack this year, which will open up the passing game much more-so than last years atrocities that were Al Borges.  Let's run a play action bootleg on 3rd and 17!  LETS NOT AL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Nuss is the man, it will be proven this year. 

mackbru

August 16th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^

Well, I think maybe you're slightly discounting the fact that last year was DG's first full season as a starter. (The prior season, in which he started a handful of games, almost doesn't matter, since he spent the bulk of that year practicing and playing as a WR.) Rare is the QB -- and I'm including the top-tier ones -- who's a monster in his first full season. Usually the great ones make a big jump after the first full year.

Now factor in a) the degree to which DG was playing behind an absolute trainwreck of an OL, one that constantly had him fearing and running for his life, and b) the degree to which DG improved as the season went on. There are no guarantees. But he's shown enough for us to reasonably anticipate a very good-to-great season from him -- assuming he can get a reasonable degree of protection and blocking.

charblue.

August 15th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^

that Devin is one of the best quarterbacks in the Big Ten. He is. Whether his ceiling was considered higher last year, after Oline issues, poor decision-making and interceptions changed the perception on his overall ability, his production put him at the top of the league in performance. So much of playing his position is about understanding what you see, recognizing defenses and making the best choices.

So, it's about experience and maturity and then marksmanship and perfoming in the clutch, making the right calls and throws.  

However, you are judged as a quarterback by wins and losses, the ability to succeed in the clutch and not make poor plays which lead to defeat. So, even if you were to go to the numbers and make Devin's case as one of the league's best, you'd still have to say that he shaded the perspective on him either by too many picks, trying way too hard to make plays when taking a loss was the smarter move, and simply realizing he isn't superman. 

Devin Gardner, outside of Drew Henson, maybe the best running and throwing qb Michigan has ever had. And I say that without trying to disrespect Jim Harbaugh or any past Michigan qbs who have shined in the past.  Of course, anyone could challenge this by noting Denard's production, which was off the charts, fantastic. 

But as an ideal type player for his position, Devin is the man, and at times he has demonstrated he can do it all, which to me makes him elite, except you have to prove it consistently and by winning, which he hasn't done. And not because I don't think he's capable but because of trying too hard to do it all and then not having the best support around him. 

 

 

 

charblue.

August 15th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^

that Devin is one of the best quarterbacks in the Big Ten. He is. Whether his ceiling was considered higher last year, after Oline issues, poor decision-making and interceptions changed the perception on his overall ability, his production put him at the top of the league in performance. So much of playing his position is about understanding what you see, recognizing defenses and making the best choices.

So, it's about experience and maturity and then marksmanship and perfoming in the clutch, making the right calls and throws.  

However, you are judged as a quarterback by wins and losses, the ability to succeed in the clutch and not make poor plays which lead to defeat. So, even if you were to go to the numbers and make Devin's case as one of the league's best, you'd still have to say that he shaded the perspective on him either by too many picks, trying way too hard to make plays when taking a loss was the smarter move, and simply realizing he isn't superman. 

Devin Gardner, outside of Drew Henson, maybe the best running and throwing qb Michigan has ever had. And I say that without trying to disrespect Jim Harbaugh or any past Michigan qbs who have shined in the past.  Of course, anyone could challenge this by noting Denard's production, which was off the charts, fantastic. 

But as an ideal type player for his position, Devin is the man, and at times he has demonstrated he can do it all, which to me makes him elite, except you have to prove it consistently and by winning, which he hasn't done. And not because I don't think he's capable but because of trying too hard to do it all and then not having the best support around him. 

 

 

 

jsquigg

August 15th, 2014 at 2:48 PM ^

I'm hoping Nuss is quicker to adjust both in game and over the course of a season.  If the line struggles early, M needs a quick hitting passing game to offset defensive aggressiveness.  I don't think it can be understated how the complexity of Borges' system overloaded the youth on the line, on top of scheming and calling plays that made absolutely no sense.  Having a TE help out your best lineman is kinda nuts.....

MGlobules

August 15th, 2014 at 3:17 PM ^

that Devin Garnder is all that and more. The rest of us--those with freaking brains--were already aware of it, but it's nice to have it borne out in such a convincing manner. 

oldschoolblue60

August 16th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^

Thanks for the read, and,  you just put on paper what's been ramblin' round me brain. I think if the O-Line is just servicable, we could do some great things this year. Too many weapons(granted many potential), but just to much talent. Look at the D. Very possibly a shut down unit this season. Deeeep. Can't win if you cannot score.10 wins. Miinimum. Schedule is just too sweet. Gee---wonder how long those 'starters' at N.D will sit out for their cheating ways? a game? ;-) GO BLUE! 

DavidMLaFleur

August 16th, 2014 at 9:27 PM ^

I really feel DG can produce & take his QB level up a few notches especially if everyone around has put in there work. Take into consideration that Nuss will be on the sideline with DG & I think that will be such a boost for DG game in game out. DG will ring bells this year I hope.

 

Not to say there is a QB race but I really think Morris should get some snaps drives when the game is early & counts. DG #1 until he drops it off but lets see what Morris gots at times just like Spurrier used to do.