Scrimmage Observations 4/10

Submitted by michWolves2580 on

[Ed: couple of first-hand observations posted on the message board that jive with those of a couple sources of mine who were also there. Those will be coming early next week.]

I was at today's scrimmage and noticed a couple of things:

-the final score was 59-53 offense... it was 53-42 when they went to a segment called last play from the 3 yard line with the defense up by 4. defense stuffed the offense twice then Denard ran in for the win.

-everyone played. walk on slot receiver #10 (not gallon) i think his name is Jordan Barpal had a terrific catch in the back of the endzone for a touchdown from Jack Lennedy.

-John McColgan looked good at FB.. even had a td reception.

-Stephen Hopkins is the real deal. He was running with the 1s has the "big back" and had some really tough runs. I love the way he finishes his runs and really punishes defenders.

-the QB competition is WIDE OPEN. All 3 played with all the lineman and WRs. ( it seemed like they were rotating the QBs with no regard as to which offensive teams were going in.)

-Taylor Lewan looked very good. he played LT with the first team and the second

-the defense looked phenomenal. There tackling was like night and day from last season. There was only one missed tackle that I saw, and it was on a great move by Mike Cox who looped back around and ended up being tackled for a loss by Thomas Gordon.

I was very impressed by today. The team seems to really be coming along.

GO BLUE

Another Report Pulled From Lower In the Thread

I was there too and concur with the OP and was pleasantly surprised.

I would add:

Fitzy had a nice run. He was solid. Stephen looked the best on this particular day though.

Thomas Gordon seems to be the best fit for the Stevie Brown Spur/Bandit position for now. I would be curious to see if he will beat out Marvin, or even Cam, or JT Turner.I think they will have to move JT Turner to one of the safety spots when the other frosh get in. That young lad had himself a growth spurt. He is a big kid. It will be interesting to see what they do with him once they get depth this summer at CB

The LB's or secondary didn't suck. I was pleasantly surprised. Troy is pretty good at that CB spot. The defense as a whole was better against the run than I ever would have thought based on last year.

Devin was owning the 2 and 3rd team D. He is the real deal, I don't care what string he was playing against. He seems to have the best shot of us having a vertical game whenever he takes the reins. Denard has a cannon, but doesn't have the touch that Devin has. Devin had a long gainer to Gallon. When Devin played with the 1's he threw a TD to Roundtree.

Denard seemed to have the most success moving the ball against the first team D. He was carving up the D when running the zone read, has a cannon, lacks a little touch on the short and intermediate stuff. If they want to stay true to the West Virginia style O, then Denard has to be the guy this year. He reads it pretty well, and has the explosiveness necessary to get around the corner obviously.

Tate was pretty decent. Didn't get as much time with the 1's as Denard. Tate is Tate. Pretty accurate on the short and intermediate stuff, not as explosive as the others when running the zone read. He did okay though. He can win football games, they just have to tailor the play calling to his strengths.

I would guess that we see more of a rotation this year as opposed to last year when Tate was getting the majority of the snaps. Devin is the real deal, I would hate to be the coaches if they wanted to keep a redshirt on that kid. I wouldn't be able to do it.

Either way. Denard has to be on the field somewhere. You can tell he is putting it together. He is way too explosive to spend as much time on the sidelines as he did last year.

The Oline seems to be a lot better too. Taylor Lewan was getting a lot of time at LT and did really well. It wouldn't surprise me if he just didn't let that spot go.

Cam is a ball hawk. He is very much a see ball, hit ball kind of player, and seems to be just fine at that deep safety if he has to stay there. They tested him a little bit.

It wouldn't surprise me though that when the fall frosh comes in to see them work JT Turner in back there, and move Cam up to a Spur/Bandit position to get the best 11 out there. You can see the talent in JT, the sky is not falling with him, but he has outgrown corner and in my opinion is only there this spring because they don't have depth to move him. JT is big enough now to work into a spur/bandit type roll too.He looks to be in the 210-215ish range.

One fumble, but no turnovers up until the point I left. I had to jet a little early.

All in all I came out actually more impressed with the defense than the offense. Logic tells me that is a good thing, but with this team....who knows?

In Which Your Editor Provides A Short Addendum

I also heard that Hopkins was killing people today in a fashion similar to a squatter Minor, although I'm guessing with less speed since a 230-pound running back who's as fast as Minor is not a generic three star recruit. The quarterback situation seems utterly confused; depending on who you talk to any of the three is the likely starter against UConn. Running back is also a jumble.

One thing that is becoming more and more certain: Taylor Lewan is locking down the left tackle spot, which is great news.

Comments

Kilgore Trout

April 11th, 2010 at 1:13 AM ^

For all of the angst about QBs, this is the truest, most important point of all. If Devin Gardner is the best quarterback and gives us the best chance to win, he should play. I know that seems terribly obvious, but it doesn't seem to be that way around here. If anyone has a shred of trust in Rodriguez, they should be happy if Gardner starts, because that means he's better than Tate or Denard. We know what we have in Tate and we are getting glimpses of what Denard could be. If at the end of the competition Gardner is better, than good for us!

OHbornUMfan

April 11th, 2010 at 7:18 AM ^

it seems that it's less about talent and ability and more about handling the playbook. Rodriguez seems uncomfortable calling plays for a QB that he isn't absolutely sure will be run correctly. His talk in '08 was often about what percent of the playbook Threet/Sheridan were working with. He made similar mentions last year especially in regards to the competition between Tate and Denard. DG won't have enough of the playbook under his belt, even with early enrollment, to truly compete with the sophs.

Additionally, if Tate or Denard gives us a good chance to win and Devin gives us a slightly better one in the estimation of the staff, you can still make a strong argument for a redshirt. Will maybe getting one more win be worth burning an entire year of eligibility? If Devin can compete for the job now, just imagine how excited the staff (and we) will be to have him in '14!

Oaktown Wolverine

April 11th, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^

True, but since Devin has already enrolled early, having a redshirt year would mean he will be on campus for nearly 2 years by the time he would get to play in his first game. By that point, Tateard Forbinson will be securely entrenched in the starting qb job, giving him less of a chance to play. I think if DG is ready now, give him an opportunity to play, preferably in a 3qb rotation so that the best qb will win out.

aaamichfan

April 11th, 2010 at 5:22 PM ^

Until a great option is found for the QB position, I don't believe the coaches subscribe to the idea of anyone being "securely entrenched". If Tate and Denard take all the snaps at QB this year, it wouldn't necessarily guarantee either one the starting job in 2011.

For Denard, this wouldn't be a big deal because he is equally capable at other offensive positions. For Tate, this situation would present more of a problem. Hence the reason so much pressure is being placed on Tate right now to show steady improvement.

Maize and Blue…

April 11th, 2010 at 7:32 PM ^

a 3 QB rotation is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. We are talking about spring practice against vanilla Ds that aren't trying to disguise coverages and blitzes. This is entirely different than a real game.
The ideal situation is to have a year between Tate/Denard and Devin. It is in the best interest of the program long term. Not to mention that freshmen QBs seldom are highly successful unless surrounded by an elite team.
We've been through two years of starting a QB with no college experience do we really want to go down that path again?

M-Wolverine

April 11th, 2010 at 7:17 PM ^

Because players know who the best players are too, and if you do your best, and are the best, and DON'T play, you demoralize the whole team.

IF Devin is the best QB, he plays. If it's one more win this year, it's even more the next, because he has the experience under his belt. You don't play a good but lesser QB so you can have 5 good years; you play the best for the best possible 4 years and recruit someone else after you've won a lot of games to replace him.

Is it best for the program if you have upperclassmen better than your freshmen? Sure. But it's best if you have really great players, no matter their age.

Play who earns it. If it be returning starter, former back-up, or incoming freshman.

wiscwood

April 10th, 2010 at 11:00 PM ^

In 1997 Michigan won the National Championship. I noticed that they were going to be really good in their first five plays against Colorado. I saw resolve, focus, tenacity, mental toughness etc. in only five plays. I believe what others have seen today. I expect RR to have players improve as time passes.

I know what the skeptics think. Two years of what fans have been through has been tough, but now patience will be pay off for the faithful. Fans just have to be realistic in expectations.

I don't care who is QB, RB, or even safey, long as they make Michigan better. I just know you can't keep Michigan down. All this news means is that Michigan is rising, as expected!

Hit it Ren and Stimpy. "Happy, happy, joy, joy!!!"

joeburner82

April 11th, 2010 at 12:30 AM ^

It is so great to hear that the defense is looking good. The offense is gonna be solid no matter who the starting quarterback is. With an improved defense, Michigan will be in the hunt for the Big 10 championship. I believe in Rich Rodriguez and his staff more than ever!

michiganfanforlife

April 11th, 2010 at 12:37 AM ^

really excited about going to the spring game next week. I am really psyched that our defense might be able to make some form tackles this year. When you look at it, our offense could be a little worse and still win plenty of games if the D can keep the other team under 21 points a game. See you guys there next week!!!

Elno Lewis

April 11th, 2010 at 8:23 AM ^

They overpursued VY and left him gaping holes to jog thru.

its that simple.

great news to hear from the scrimmage. I think Gardner will play some this year. There really is no need to redshirt him. RR has proven he can recruit, and with a winning season this will only get better. I mean, come on, you really think RR won't be able to recruit another top flite qb over the next 4 years? Any time you have your qb running around like this offense intends, you have an increased risk of injury. Remember how less effective tate was last year when he got banged up? I just don't think worrying about a redshirt for Gardner is necessary. I also think he will get some serious playing time if he continues to progress. Think of how much better he could be after summer camp and a few fall practices. But, whatever.

Not much fluff about the wide outs concerns me a bit tho. A vertical threat would really help this offense.

Can't wait until the spring game, and thanks everyone for your reports.

snowcrash

April 11th, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^

I think this gets it backwards. Freshmen (especially quarterbacks) should be redshirted unless you need to play them. It's very dangerous to just assume that you'll be able to recruit a good college quarterback. Even the best prospects are just that, prospects.

funkywolve

April 11th, 2010 at 11:09 AM ^

QB is one of the toughest positions to recruit when you have established guys in the program, especially established young guys.

I'm sure most recruits look at programs depth charts to see what the possibility of early playing time is. QB is one of the few positions on the field where only one, maybe two guys, see playing time. It's not that easy to recruit stud QB's when you've got a sophomore starter, especially if that sophomore starter is pretty good. Look at OSU with Pryor, they've struggled getting another good QB recruit because all the recruits knew barring an injury to Pryor they were going to sit for a few years. That will probably change with OSU's 2011 recruiting class, because recruits know that Pryor will be a senior after their freshmen year the starting job will be open.

funkywolve

April 11th, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^

I'm fine if they don't redshirt him this year. However, if they don't redshirt him he better see a lot of time. To burn a redshirt on Gardner getting on the field for maybe one or two offensive possessions a game seems a waste to me.

bronxblue

April 11th, 2010 at 8:39 AM ^

Nice to hear that Lewan has solidified the LT spot. That OL line has been paying dividends so far, and hopefully Lewan can live up the Jake Long hype he received coming to UM.

As for the QBs, I still think this should be Tate's to lose. I know that Denard has been playing better this year, but I want to see how plays against a non-vanilla defense (though I did not see the game, the talk this week has been that the defense has not been showing its full array of formations). I know Tate has a lower ceiling, but I also know that he can make plays against good defenses and has proven it in the past. With Denard, it just sounds a bit like he has progressed somewhat but that he is also "new" - the backup who has limitless possibilities because people have not seen that much of him. If he beats Tate out of the starting QB position, then I'm fine with it. But there is a big difference between practice time and starting time, and breaking in a third first-time signal caller in 3 years is not going to instill much confidence in me.

foste2ts

April 11th, 2010 at 11:24 AM ^

I got a chance to see the guys practice over the last few days. I think that Cam Gordon is going to be a stud. He locates the ball really well and gets there in a hurry. He is going to be a big hitter. Reminiscent of Earnest Shazor, but a much better cover man. He covers ground well and gets to his spots. He is a big guy and has a physically intimidating presence. I'm looking forward to seeing him this fall. He's also a really nice kid as well. I think fans will be presently surprised by Gordon. Go Blue!

myblueheaven

April 11th, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^

TO ME IT SOUNDS LIKE DEVIN MAY NOT BE THE FUTURE UNLESS THE FUTURE IS NOW! IF THERE IS NO SEPARATION FROM THE 1ST TO THE "3rd" THEN YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER PLAYING THE ONE WITH THE HIGHEST CEILING AND THE MOST TALENT AND SMARTS. TATE DID WELL THE FIRST 5 GAMES OR SO BUT WHEN HE GOT INJURED HE NEVER RECOVERED! PLUS HE'S SLOWER THAN THE 2 OTHER QB'S. I LIKE TATE MOXIE AND LOVE HIS HEART BUT HE TOO LITTLE COMPARED TO DEVIN AND HE DOES NOT COME CLOSE TO DENARD'S SPEED. THEY OBVIOUSLY WANT DENARD TO RUN THE OFFENSE AND THEY ARE GROOMING DEVIN FOR THE NOW, BUT IF THATS THE CASE THEN YOU REALLY HAVE TO CONSIDER PLAYING A FROSH FOR THE 3RD YR IN A ROW JUST CAUSE HE IS MORE ACCURATE THAN DENARD AND JUST AS FAST! IT SOUNDS CRAZY BUT I THINK DEVIN GIVES YOU THE BEST CHANCE TO NOT JUST COMPETE BUT WIN AND IF HE HAS A FALL, THEN YOU HAVE TWO EXPERIENCED AND CAPABLE QB'S IN THE WING! I'M LOVING THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE DEFENSE PERIOND! SHOUT OUT TO CAM! BUT WE HAD ONE OF THE HIGHEST SCORING OFFENSES IN THE BIG 10, SO IF THEIR COMPETING AND WINNING BATTLES THEN THAT BODES WELL FOR THE D! CAN'T WAIT TILL THE FALL, THEN WE WILL KNOW BETTER ABOUT THE DEPTH OF THE SECONDARY AND WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THE MORE TALENTED RECRUITS WILL QUALIFY! ALL IN ALL I JUST WANT TO BEAT MICHIGAN STATE AND OHIO STATE AND IF GO 6-6 WITH THOSE WINS I WILL BE HAPPY! IM TIRED OF LOSING TO SWEATER VEST HA HA!

funkywolve

April 11th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^

"the final score was 59-53 offense... it was 53-42 when they went to a segment called last play from the 3 yard line with the defense up by 4. defense stuffed the offense twice then Denard ran in for the win."

"-the defense looked phenomenal. There tackling was like night and day from last season. There was only one missed tackle that I saw, and it was on a great move by Mike Cox who looped back around and ended up being tackled for a loss by Thomas Gordon."

How much tackling was there? If the offenses are combining for 105 points before the goal line segment, can the defense really look phenomenal?

Is it maybe the first team defense looked good, but the 2nd and 3rd team defenses looked awful?

joeburner82

April 11th, 2010 at 1:25 PM ^

It seems like the scrimmage involved a lot of situational football, which would inflate the score quite a bit. It's like the difference between a internet poll (scrimmage) and a scientific poll (real game), the score doesn't reflect the overall play on both sides of the ball. Observing good tackling technique means a whole lot more than a random score.

funkywolve

April 11th, 2010 at 1:49 PM ^

I'm excited to hear that the tackling looked cause that's area that the UM defense has been pretty poor in for a while now. However, unless the offenses were consistently starting in the red zone, that seems like a lot of points to be given up. I guess I'd be more curios to know how the break down of points given up was distributed among the 1st team defense, 2nd team defense, etc.

blueblueblue

April 11th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^

I think the point is that the points scored is not the point. It is just a system created to incite competition and most likely doesn't "scientifically" reflect performance. The take-homes from the scrimmage lie in qualitative observations (as provided here) rather than in the score - which always simplifies what happens in a game, but to an extreme extent here.

goody

April 11th, 2010 at 2:45 PM ^

This was an Offense vs. Defense Scrimmage

The coaches setup a scoring system to create competition between the offensive and defensive units. The scoring system could be a wide range of things but to give an example:

Offensive scoring
1st down = 3 pts
TD = 6 pts
FG = 3 pts

Defensive scoring
sack = 2 pts
Int = 3 pts
Fumble = 1 pts
Fumble recovery = 3 pts
loss of downs = 6 pts

So the end score really means nothing but bragging rights.

UMICH1606

April 11th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^

Jeremy Gallon was very impressive yesterday also. He is another player that they need to figure a way to get the ball in his hands as much as they can. He ran down the seam and caught a long gainer from Devin. That is one thing that I like about Devin more than Tate and Denard. He is willing to stay in the pocket longer, and is always looking down the field. The other two guys take off and freelance a little too early, and too often for my liking. It isn't as bad for Denard, because he is a big play waiting to happen with hit legs, but neither one of them really take a look down field all that much. The deep ball is there for them at times if they look for it.

michgoblue

April 12th, 2010 at 1:36 PM ^

I also found Tate and Denard's unwillingness to stay in the pocket last year to be frustrating. I also recall one of the O-line men expressing frustration in this regard about Tate (Shilling, maybe?).

That said, I think that this is a common problem amongst many freshman QBs that are somewhat quick. In high school, if the play that they are looking for is not there, they are usually able - as a result of their own relative dominance and the generally crappy state of high school D - to create something with their legs. I think that with experience (and getting his ear chewed off by RR a few times last year), Tate will learn to hang out in the pocket and let plays develope. As for Denard, I think that when he was out there, teams brought a ton of pressure, and our line did not always hold up, so it was either risk a crappy throw into coverage (which he did do once or thrice) or take off. Again, experience, as well as some more diverse play-calling when he is in there should correct this problem. By all reports, Denard has a very strong arm.