Rich had like 6-7 QB's a few years ago at WVU. So he may stockpile them here as well.
Mason NEEDS this, Pistons, after all you've put him through
Would love a little help from the Mgoblog cyberspace on the QB situation in 2009 and beyond. My best guess would be the following depth chart :
1) Threet 3 years of eligibility
2) Sheridan 2 years left
3) Forcier 4 years left
4) Beaver 4 years left
5) Feagin 3 years left
6) Cone 2 years left
I would think we would red shirt one of the 2 freshman and likely shift Feagin back to slot receiver or DB. One of the 2 freshman would provide the change of pace/limited offense QB in a 2 QB offense (the role Feagin played, quite well I might add, this week). We may pull a Buckeye, and mid-way through the season go with the dual threat QB.
Would we then put recruiting a QB on the backburner for the 2010 (no need to stockpile so many QBs). How many QBs do we really want at the same time? Can we have so many scholarships tied up in QBs (I guess we can not provide a 5th year to Cone/Sheridan in 2010 and Threet in 2011). Can we do that, not give a 5th year to a QB, how does that work? It seems like the spread can create a few more injuries (even though a previous article argued there were fewer hits..), so I think having 3 QBs who can play each year is good (including 1 change of pace guy or a younger QB who is fast but needs to learn the offense). Does anyone think we will have a transfer this year?
On an unrelated note, am I allowed to think big on 2009 as we get both PSU and OSU at home!!!?
Rich had like 6-7 QB's a few years ago at WVU. So he may stockpile them here as well.
Like jcontiz said, Rodriguez likes to have a lot of QB's on the roster. Also, schools are not required to renew scholarships for a fifth year. Redshirt juniors this year (Ortmann, for example) are not guaranteed to have a scholarship for a fifth year.
Rodriguez will not ignore QB recruiting in 2010. In 2010:
1. Cone will be a 5th year bench player, graduated and gone, or transferred.
2. Threet will be a redshirt junior.
3. Sheridan will be a 5th year senior or graduated and gone.
4. Feagin will be a slot receiver.
5. Forcier will be a sophomore or a redshirt freshman.
6. Beaver will be a sophomore or a redshirt freshman.
That leaves room for at least one QB in the Class of 2010, maybe even two. I doubt Cone is going to be at Michigan for five years and Feagin will be a WR, so we'd only have four scholarship QB's at that time.
although starting a post with that means i do mean to be picky lol, but "Redshirt juniors this year (Ortmann, for example) are not guaranteed to have a scholarship for a fifth year."
I think a more accurate example would be McAvoy instead of Ortmann. Your point still stands, just sayin...i think Ortmann stays, and if anyone is gone, it's McAvoy
I was just using Ortmann as an example because of his year of eligibility. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
in my post: your point still stands
I was just saying, McAvoy is an even better example
you can basically eliminate Cone and Feagin from that list. Feagin isn't likely to feature as a QB for us again with Forcier and Beaver coming in. And Cone... what can i say. So that leaves us with 4 QB's.. and i'd say Sheridan isn't likely to see much time after Forcier/Beaver come in and once these 2 play up to their reputations i'd say that puts Threet out of the picture as well. So, in my mind in 2 years out of the current QB situation i'd say only Forcier/Beaver stand out as legitimate prospects at leading our team at QB so yes, we would still recruit dual-threats ala Devin Gardner, Robert Bolden.
Considering the reports that at least one and maybe both of Forcier and Beaver are gonna enroll early, my guess is that those two will be the lead candidates for next year's team. If Threet doesn't look like the option going into next year, I wouldn't be surprised to see him pull a Matt Gutierrez and possibly transfer to a I-AA program so that he could get some playing time. Sheridan will just be depth. I'm sure RichRod will continue to recruit quarterbacks every year. In fact, I just read that he has been recruiting a qb from Florida, Christian Green who has us listed as one of his top choices for 2010 along with Florida State.
I would expect us to maybe bring in one or two more qbs for 2010 and then one or two a year depending on how those recruits pan out.
As for your optimism question...I think it depends on what you mean by "thinking big". If you think 12-0, chance at a national championship game or no worse than 10-2 and a big ten championship, I'd say you're probably (and unfortunately) pretty far off. This is still a process that is going to take a couple more years to finish. We are probably looking at another Freshman QB, an inexperienced defense with very little talent at LB and an OL that still won't be great. I don't care where we play our big games, that means next year could be dangerous. I would guess (and this is way off so who knows what will happen in the next year) somewhere between 7-5 and 9-3, depending on our nonconference schedule outside of Western and ND. Ohio State will still be much more talented than us probably should beat us at home, but Penn State could be ripe for the picking, especially if Paterno retires and the transfer doesn't go smoothly.
Threet isn't leaving. He transferred back to Michigan with the expectation of sitting behing Mallett for the rest of his career because he was homesick. He's staying.
While I think you're right about why he transferred back here, I'm not sure he knew he was going to be behind Mallett. Everybody knows Mallett was difficult if not uncoachable during his time here and (as I believe Brian mentioned in a post at the start of the year) there was a chance he could have been shown the bench in favor of Threet even if he stayed.
I'm not saying he's definitely going to tranfer (I guess the subject of my previous post wasn't well phrased), I'm just saying it's a definite possibility that he finds a I-AA program in the region and play there instead of (most likely) spending the next three years as depth to a couple of incoming freshmen.
Threet and Mallett arrived at the same time - Mallett's boorish behavior was not evident when Threet made the decision to transfer to Michigan. All he knew was that he was coming to "compete" with the #1 QB recruit in the nation who was guaranteed some PT by the coaching staff as teh primary backup to Henne.
Mallett enrolled in January 2007 and spent spring practice with the Wolverines football team. Threet went through spring practice with Georgia Tech and transferred to Michigan in the summer of 2007.
when Threet came it was known that he was to be behind Mallet. Threet initially wanted to come to UofM out of HS but knew that he'd be backing up Ryan Mallet. So then he went to Georgia Tech only for them to completely change up the offense so he transferred to Michigan, his 1st love still knowing he'd be the backup to Mallet.
Just sayin -- you can strike me down for it later, but to my recollection, Mallett was ranked No. 2 behind Jimmah Clausen.
QB rankings are never that accurate.
Top 5 guys in 2002: Vince Young, Ben Olson, Marcus Vick, Trent Edwards, James Banks. 10th man: Matt Guitierrez
2003: Kyle Wright, Chris Leak, Robert Lane, Dennis Dixon, Tommy Grady. 10th man: Jamarcus Russell
2004: Rhett Bomar, Anthony Morelli, Chad Henne, Xavier Lee, Matthew Tuiasosopo. 10th man: Drew Weatherford
2005: Mark Sanchez, Ryan Perriloux, Jonathan Crompton, Jake Christensen, Harrison Beck, Derek Shaw. 10th man: Chase Daniel
2006: Matt Stafford, Mitch Mustain, Tim Tebow, Demetris Jones, Jevan Snead. 10th man: Pat Devlin
2007: Jimmy Clausen, Ryan Mallett, Tyrod Taylor, Cameron Newton, Aaron Corp. 10th man: Steven Threet
Really, there's nothing there that tells me the 10th best quarterback in 2006 is going to be substantially worse than the 2nd quarterback in 2007.
Heck, we already had Bob Griese's son and all-world Scott Dreisbach on the roster when Tom Brady signed.
In his interview he said he missed home, but also that it had to do with his situation at Ga Tech, where he knew he'd lose the chance to start. I think that suggests he believed he could compete to replace Henne, even if the cards initially favored Mallett.
Also, didn't Weinke commit by July 2007, too, so Threet would know he'd actually be one of four to compete with for the 2008 starting job. They didn't know about the Malletude yet, but these signs certainly point to Threet arriving at Michigan believing he was well positioned to earn the starting job.
from Rivals... haha these are the types of comments that make me like RR even more
On a reporter's suggestion that Feagin ran against Minnesota like Pat White runs: "He's not as fast as Pat."
On the follow-up observation that he's just a freshman: "As a freshman, he's not as fast as Pat.
If Beaver falls behind in the QB race, he could also potentially be moved to receiver. I think some schools were recruiting him at that position (Texas?).
Texas was only interested in Beaver as a WR. If they had originally recruited him as a QB, he probably would have been a Longhorn. I wouldn't be surprised to see him play some WR, with the potential of moving to QB if injury necessitated the move. However, I don't think that will happen. If anything, I expect either Forcier or Beaver to redshirt next year so he'll have a year of eligibility remaining after the other one leaves.
I think that the coaches will try to redshirt one as well, but if the one that they try to play first isn't doing well, I do expect that they will strip the redshirt off the other and give them some play time.
If Beaver moves to WR, I see him being used in trick plays a lot to throw the ball. That should be fun to watch.
and he'll play that here
Another function of the Rich Rodriguez style of coaching is that he wants as many athletes as possible. A lot of these guys play qb in high school. If they dont pan out as qb at Michigan, there is a good chance to get them on the field as a receiver or DB since we play so many of them. So, I think he will take as many qb/atheletes as he can get his hands on.
We are definitely open to getting a QB in 2010 - we've already offered Devon Gardner from Inkster.
that Forcier can't enroll early, wouldn't that give Beaver the edge for next year and potentially point to Forcier being redshirted?
This is all pie in the sky, regardless.
isn't that he can't enroll early, it's that he's behind in his school work and won't be able to. his dad will make sure all of his work is done and that he'll be able to enroll early. at any rate i doubt either of them RS unless one is just amazing from the beginning.
could we possibly piss of two Forcier's with redshirts/other QBs coming and have them both transfer away?
that Cone has 2 years left.
Who's gonna tell the story of the Jug when he leaves though?
George Morales, Scholarship long-snapper maybe?
I'm excited to think about the competition we're going to have at the QB position next season. It's going to push all of these guys to get better.
we will be seeing lots of QBs comming in and lots of the switching positions. I wouldnt be surprised for him to take 2-3 a year with only 1 or 0 staying at QB depending on depth and talent. Its generally never a bad thing to have options. Look at RB. Minor was dinged up, McGuffie!!!!! stepped up as a True Frosh to be pretty good. AS is Shaw now that he is healthy.
RichRod is such a good snake-oil salesman, dropping the "I keep 10 QB's on the roster, and you're going to be No. 1!" to HS athletes everyone else recruits as defensive backs/WR. Then they get the slot receiver whammy. What a trickster!
While your post was made in a joking manner, the point is still valid. When RichRod recruits these types of athletes that everyone else wants as DB/WR, he can sell them on the chance of playing QB.
Example: Justin Feagin will likely end up as a slot receiver. He had, IIRC, offers from Miami and LSU to be a receiver or a DB. He came to Michigan for the chance to play quarterback. Same goes for Shavodrick. The opportunity to play QB is RichRod's trump card.
I think next fall opens like this:
Feagin will be like that Siller guy from Purdue (hang on while I slam my head against the table to blur the memory). He'll move positions and only come back to QB in the case of a UCLA-like emergency.
I think you'll see a lot of Forcier next year, whether he enrolls early or not. The QB is prone to injury in this offense and Theet will not have a lock on the job. Beaver will likely redshirt because (a) he's raw as a QB, (b) he weighs like 175 pounds, and (c) he's coming off of a major injury.
In 2010 I think Michigan will sign one "QB" that is more of a dark horse prospect. Someone who will be given a chance at QB due to their raw ability but who won't figure prominently in the long term plans. What we've learned from this year is that you can't take a season off from signing QB's. At one point we would have had Jason Forcier, John Weinke, Ryan Mallett, and maybe even Antonio Bass eligible this year along with everyone else. Stuff happens. You need depth at that position, especially when they're going to be asked to move around a lot and not stand behind the line.
In 2011 I think Michigan is going to aggressively go after the best of the best. That will give those QB's time to develop behind Beaver/Forcier and become a starter when they depart. I don't think Rodriguez will ever turn down a prized QB recruit and he'll always talk to them, but I think he'll save the full-court press for every 2-3 years for those top guys and fill in with mid-level prospects in the off-years.
Someone tell me again why David Cone is on this roster? How did he get a scholarship? We had a standard for stauesque white quarterbacks - they had to at least have some ability, right??
i agree - rodriguez will continue to go after top qb's in 2011, no matter how forcier and/or beaver look in 2009 / 2010.
one disagreement, and it's a mild one...i don't think that qb's are necessarily injury-prone in this offense. pat white has only missed 2 starts in 4 years at west virginia, and both woodrow dantzler and shaun king went their entire careers as starters without missing any time. i'm blanking on other starters for rodriguez, so i might be cherry-picking here...
it goes back to a point i made a couple weeks back - i think quarterbacks who are not natural runners (i.e threet) tend to take more big-time hits (and therefore are hurt more often) than qb's who are gifted runners. i have no specific evidence other than a gut feeling, of course.
the counter-argument doesn't really hold up, either - we've certainly had our share of injuries at qb in the "statue" era - henne was banged up last season and only started due to guttierez' injury. navarre only started due to henson's injury. grbac got his shot when michael taylor (?) was knocked out of the notre dame game...
...a quarterback. He is a good quarterback. If he plays receiver, it will be because he fails to pick up the offense or because Forcier starts getting Heisman hype or something. The whole "Oh, sure, you can *compete* for the QB job" is not a trick Rodriguez is using. It's not like Forcier is the #1, can't-miss prospect in the country. Beaver could very well win the battle for the starting QB job.