Thanks for not burning me at the stake.
Firstly you guys need to calm down. I'm a recently graduated college
student from Michigan and I have to agree with Andy here. There are
VERY many parallels to high school recruits and "normal" people.
Is there really that much of a difference when a high school senior
(academic) sends in his deposit to "save his place" at Michigan and
then when he gets that letter to Harvard, MIT, or Yale says "screw the
250 bucks I'm going to School X". All the while this is screwing out
all of the kids who really wanted to get into Michigan but just barely
missed the cut off or were deferred?
Is there really that much difference when you're a junior/senior in
college and are looking at going out into the "real" world. You get
your fancy leather resume holders and you have your first round
interviews. Sure you apply to a bunch of shitty places that you'd never
really work for but you figure "what's the harm i'll just use it as
practice there's no way that they will hire me". I'll just use this as
a practice for that job at Google, Consulting company, etc job that I
really really want.
Fast forward a few weeks and they've had the interview with Google,
consulting company, whoever they really want and they rocked it. A few
days later and they are given their verbal offer and they are asked
whether or not they want to accept. They do. This is their dream job
and they really want to work here. The pay is great but they see their
other friends still interviewing going on trips, missing classes and
they think "I wonder if I can find something better". And so they keep
interviewing for that better job and better company.
I personally know several people who had offers from companies that
they had talked about for months but then still interviewed with other
companies just to "make sure". This is COMPLETE AND UTTER BS. Because
while they have their 8 offers (yes I do know many people who had a lot
of offers like that) there are many other seniors who don't even have 1
offer. These aren't students who have horrible gpa's these are just
students who don't "interview obscenely well and have the stats to back
it up". And then when these "great scholars" verbally accept their
offer and then back out it makes the school look bad and the students
Now exactly how is this any different than a student athlete
committing? Because IT IS NOT. I was one of the students who had no
good offers coming out of school. So I took a crappy job and quit it 5
months later (Prep school route). Then found a "respectable engineering
job" that I hated and quit another 5 months later (The JUCO route) and
then finally found the job I had been searching for for 2 years
(Finally got into the college of my choice).
I tell this story not because I'm mad that I didn't get any offers
because I can't imagine that if I had gotten a "good engineering job"
right after undergrad that I would be in my awesome career change job
now. I tell it because the students who had their dream jobs screwed
over other students and it's the same things that student athletes do.
Thanks for not burning me at the stake.
Andy, a single poster responded to you more harshly than was warranted. Other than that, you received legitimate critiques of your argument. If you post in a public forum, should be prepared for people disagreeing. There is no need to post defensively, or continue to carry on as a victim from thread to thread.
I'm not sure that is a legit criticism. Also, I'm not carrying on from thread to thread, it just so happens that this thread is an extension of mine.
If I want to interview at 500 jobs, get them all, tell them all I'll start, and then take job #501, that's my issue. Sorry if I took your "spot". Should have interviewed better or gotten better grades or something, eh?
All I gather is that you fucked around in school and don't interview great. And some other people probably fucked around, but got better grades, and interview better. And they had multiple offers, so they took their time and found what they wanted. Apparently you just want a job handed to you for being you. Or for going to Michigan. Or something.
Why should the people who did their work, interviewed well, and have options have to take the first thing that comes along? Why? So that people who fucking didn't do it can have more opportunities? Why should a good athlete, with lots of options, have to take the first thing that he loves?
Fuck that. Bryce McNeal, Fera, etc. thought they wanted Michigan. Then, because they are 17 year old high school students, they changed their mind. So what? They worked hard enough to be D-1 athletes, and they earned the right to pick whatever school they wanted. They don't owe you, just like the people who presumably got the job offers you wanted, shit.
I didn't "Screw around" more than any other college students. And actually I DO interview well. And I dare you to tell that to any advisor at the University of Michigan's college of Engineering and see what they say.
They tell students exactly what I just said in this diary if you don't want to work for us or aren't sure Mull it over then make a decision.
Yes they do make more offers/accept more students (I worked in the admissions department at the University so yes I know) but it is still all based on past metrics. For example a few years ago something like 1000 more students accepted than normal and the university had to accomodate them with housing, because of that there were fewer students let in the next year which means fewer offers went out.
And Dex if you want to apply to 500 jobs and tell them all yes... then by all means you are a douchebag. Me as a non-douchebag can't reason with a douchebag because afterall you are a douchebag. Therefore we are just going to flame back and forth.
P.S. Man you must have been amazing in school and must get all of the jobs/ladies acting like an internet tough guy. And yeah I must be a shitty interviewer/have shitty grades because ya know I'm doing something that most people strive to do and wish that they could do but can't do it... Nah it's just easier to call me an idiot
I actually did extremely average in school. And I'm an extremely average interviewee.
However, I like to make the decision that's ultimately going to be best for me, because it's my life. You can't look out for other people.
If a company offers me a spot, and I think I might take, then I'm telling them I'll take it. They offered. It's their problem if I don't accept.
It's great you are so kind and generous (naive?) to "mull it over".
I'm not an "internet tough guy". I work a mediocre job for mediocre pay. And the reason for that is I haven't worked hard enough to deserve more. If you think, because your advisors tell you are special, you are entitled to more then go out and fucking earn it. Don't blame the people working to get ahead for you falling behind or not getting your dream job or whatever you are so bitter about.
Dex - your approach to the interview process and moving up in the world smells like capitalism to me. Chatter like this could spark a peasant revolt. You better hope your bourgeoisie comrades over at WLA don't catch wind of your true feelings.
bouje, as I posted in the previous thread:
First, a google applicant doesn't have press, strangers, and fans ready to burn him at the stake base on his decision. Nor does he have those same people to critique and criticize him.
Second, companies, and schools, give job offers and scholarships based on merit. They choose the very best people, in their eyes, for the jobs (or scholarships) and make offers. And guess what? They ALL make offers than they have openings for. Know why? Because they know all the people won't show up. Newsome decommits? Fine - Forcier is sitting there with an offer, and we liked him enough to give him one in the first place. Google Applicant A backs out? Fine - there are 200 other people we made offers to at the same damn time. I
'm not saying all the offers are right, and I'm not saying you shouldn't have gotten one (what the fuck do I know?), but it sort of sounds like you have an axe to grind on the subject, and are sort of making a square peg fit a round hole. Note: I'm not attacking, I'm not trying to flame, I'm not trying to start a war - I am merely disagreeing with your premise.
As to your first point: no they don't have those but they also have administrators, advisors and friends who will criticize them for not being honorable (as several companies have threatened to not come back to Michigan because of kids verbally committing to work and then backing out).
To point B: Yes they do give out let's say 200 offers but if you are a kid who knows they want to work at google and have for your whole life and got an offer from google but continue to interview all over the place then you are STILL taking 1/200 spots from someone. Which doesn't sound like a lot but 1/200 spots when you have literally probably a 100 thousand people applying is actually a pretty big deal...
That individual is trying to find the very best situation for themselves. It's their future career. I have a hard time blaming them. Same as I have a hard time blaming a kid for rescinding his commitment.
I think CTB has a good point on not immediately accepting the offer: it's not their problem that there are people willing to take the job who didn't get offered. That's life.
Also, don't forget that the company puts pressure on the person to make a decision. Most offers come with deadlines for making a decision, and, if enough others accept, the offer can be revoked. Don't act like those people who got an offer can just sit on it and torture the other people who are waiting.
Who does Steven Threet blame for taking his space? Perhaps if Jason Forcier wouldn't have come to Michigan in the first place, Steven Threet would have been offered. Ryan Mallett? Steven Threet grew up a Michigan fan and went to Georgia Tech because he didn't get in. Did he give up? No, be basically applied again, got on campus, and is now starting for Michigan. Your assumption is that job offers are a 1 time occassion. Sometimes if you apply again, another time down the road, you may just get that job.
If you did well in school, why not interview at all places? How do you know that every student knows where they would like to be? I speak for myself when I say I really never dreamed of working anywhere. Whats even more so, how do you know, that the other places that you got an offer to wont pay you more? You won't know until you go interview and find out. It doesn't make the school look bad. The few companies who care dearly about this, like for example Deloitte, have a clause stating that if you decide to continue to interview elsewhere after accepting, the offer is taken back. Its simply economics, interview everywhere then decide what pays the most, or is the best option for you.
I've worked in admissions as well, and frankly, you should know that working in admissions means that there are established formulas and guidelines for admitting x number of people to get a y yield.
Putting it this way: while applying to college, did you ever have any backup schools? I mean, I applied to MSU and Purdue even with no intention of ever going if I was accepted to UM. I was even offered a 3/4 scholarship to MSU and still chose not to go. Every top 5-10% kid in Michigan applies to MSU, and everybody knows that MSU may land 25% of those kids if they're lucky. I don't see how that affects the next tier of students, they're the ones who would automatically accept an admission at MSU because its "better" than the C/E/WMU route. MSU basically expects most of the top students to go to UM, BUT they still have a shot at some of them. Maybe their entire family went to MSU, maybe they like agriculture science, maybe the difference will be the scholarship money MSU throws their way, or maybe their favorite color is green. Frankly, MSU doesn't know WHICH top 10% student feels that way, so they admit them all and try to catch a few stars that way.
It's the same for recruiting. You offer the big 4* and 5* prospects first, as they're the ones with a choice. Sure, they may not end up coming, but you'd rather have them than the 2*s who may love your program and would commit instantly, but have much less upside.
Putting it frankly, you always want to aim high. Who knows what might happen (like the fact we randomly landed Donovan Warren out of nowhere). Doing otherwise just sells everything short