Musing on Turner, RR, and Blue Chip Maintenance

So you think Rich Rod is turning Michigan into Iowa?  Fucking fantastic.

Who knows if you are right.  Five stars may not be coming (and may be leaving) because we have been losing.  Or, maybe they aren't coming because Rich won't treat them right.  Either way, I think you're jumping, nay, catapulting yourself to conclusions, here.

I pretty much agree with you. If he gets enough time to finish what he has started, we will be a very good team.

I don't see Nick Saban as a guy who is easy on his players. Having grown up with Bo, I'd rather have a team full of hard-ass overachievers who wins 8-9 games per year than a bunch of egotistical star players who get placated and win 10-12 games a year and show up on police blotters. But that's just me. I'm an old-school hard-ass myself.

is a real 'fun' guy, puh-lease!  Our team is still a majority of underclassmen.  Unfortunately our D is about a year behind our O, that's the immediate problem and I am one of those, "We have to outscore our opponent" guys currently until I see our D grow up quickly.

Rich Rod doesn't placate egos? Guess we should only recruit 3 stars only. 

I think you have to look at the players here, how many of them really are superstar talents and not overrated by the recruiting gurus because they committed to Michigan (or for whatever other reason)? Mallett, Boren, and Graham are the only true elite blue-chips there, and you can't really blame RR for not having some of these prospects pan out.

Earmuffs.

Sometimes you do the right thing for the sake of your own soul's protest... he won at WVU, he'll win again. 

Also, zen musings aside, how does the theory that it's not fun stack up with the testimony from those in the program that are loving the family atmosphere and playing X-Box in his basement?  Also the testimonials from recruits of how fun an atmosphere it is. 

I think you tend to star-gaze a little too much. What has happened hasn't been good, I'll agree with you there/ But there's a few things that need to be said. You're not always going to get the 4/5 star guys in this system because - 

1. We don't place a premium on the NFL-style receivers and offensive lines. Guards and centers are often smaller (therefore = lower rated) and the coaches like to have a smattering of slots and tallish outside receivers. I am worried about the staff's inability to secure a star running back, considering Michigan's history of great backs and RR's own history with good RB's (Slaton, Devine). 

2. We've had two very bad years on the field. Recruiting follows that. The 2009 class was much more indicative of RR's recruiting skill than the 2010 class. With that being said, the staff (admittedly) made a lot of mistakes in 2010. They took commitments from flyers early when they could have gotten equally talented players with much better offers later. It happens. Some of these players will be busts, others will be contributors, and some may be stars.

The ending of your post is the part that gets me. To me, I don't see a lot of coaches tailoring to the "stars" of their teams. Yeah, if I had Percy Harvin I'm going to be excited about having him, but it's not I'm going to treat him any differently, or tailor to him. Some coaches do, because they like certain players or stars, but that's kind of an ignorant statement. I certainly don't think Saban does that, though Carroll might have.

What you're looking is it an extreme case of bad luck with some players. Turner did not want to play football. Whether he plays elsewhere or does not play, he was not motivated to play at all, especially with all the talent he has and the total lack of depth in front of him.

It wasn't a case of him being pushed out because the staff was too tough on him. 

Just using the one other program I'm familiar with as an example (USC), Rodriguez's competitive attitude/outlook is not unique.  When Pete Carroll was hired, he instituted a competition day every Wednesday where any player on the team could be challenged for his starting position.  Virtually every drill had winners and losers.  Guys like Booty and Sanchez (5-star qb's) had to sit for years before they got a chance to play (and Mitch Mustain is likely never going to start a game at SC).  For every player like Jarrett, Mike Williams, Bush, and White who played early, there were loads of transfers like Broderick Green and Emmanuel Moody and blue-chip guys you never heard of like Whitney Lewis and Jeff Schweiger.  Even the new coach everybody can't stand just held Dillon Baxter and Markeith Ambles (two "pampered" five star recruits) out of practice to run and roll in the grass (I don't really get that one) because Baxter missed bed check and Ambles helped him sneak back into the dorms.

The difference is that they had multiple four and five star talents to fall back on when some of their top prospects inevitably failed to pan out.  Same goes for Saban at Alabama (whose competitive policy is I think much harsher than Rodriguez's).  When you don't you end up with a 50/50 shot of getting Henne as a four year starter or Ryan Mallett who transfers after one year and leaves the depth chart in shambles. 

If there is an issue that continues to be a problem at U-M under Rodriguez, it is that we don't have another blue-chip recruit to replace a guy like Turner if he ends up not panning out.  Hopefully a little dose of on-field success this fall will change that, but right now the big difference I see between us and the SC's and Alabama's of the world is still a lack of talent and depth, not the fact that the coaching staff is being too hard on our top prospects.

Let's not forget that WVU was a Pitt win away from going to the national title in 2007

they become brats in highschool with all the attention they get and you want or head coach to kiss their asses? this is football, not tennis.  

Interesting. I am withholding judgement until next offseason. These things may be true, but in the end it has worked everywhere else he has been. We'll just have to wait and see.

All I got out of that was that you think Stephen Schilling is "kind of busty."

I always wonder about this more in the college hoops game where these mid major geniuses get a big time job and seem to flame out at a high rate when they have (1) better plant resources, and (2) better recruits. Did this guy who built a successful program over multiple years with lesser resources become an idiot when he instantly got more money / talent? I think for the most part, no. I think it is a management issue of personalities. In the non-sports world, I think Apple is a great example. When Apple started Jobs was the creative genious, Woz was the brains, but when Apple got reallyy successful and tried to compete with the big boys, jobs wasn't up to the "business management' task. It was only after Jobs's separation and return (and subsequent delegatino of business tasks to business professionals where he maintained creatiive control and vision) that Apple really took off and has become the global behemoth it is today.

I think some of this is why JoePa is still successful. I think he realized a number of years ago that he would delegate the ops part of the job to his assisstants and he would simply hold the control of personality management and vision. Even though he's close to eating brains on a nightly basis, there are still rampant stories about how Joe knows how to "close the deal" in recruiting and you just don't see the defections from PSU's player base, so consequently they have a real stable base of experienced players in most  positions every year. i attribute this to JoePa's (& his staff's) ability to manage the egos of their players within the PSU vision. PSU's recruiting dearth this year may actually be a result of Joe's decreased activity level this winter / spring / summer.

So coming back to us, yes I tihnk you may have a point M-p-gon. Maybe RR is that mid major coach in college basketball (or Mike Montgomery / John Calipari in the NBA) where he needs a roster that is 100% bought into his philosophy and a school like ours which provides a greater talent  level, but also a greater personality diversity just isn't a fit.

I also think though that  if RR makes it through this year, he's going to explode in terms of success as his players become the standard....

I pretty much agree with this. The 4 and 5 star guys who "don't work out" shouldn't be transferring, they should be staying at UM as back ups as much as possible.  RR needs to find a way to convince these guys to stick around and at least contribute.

On the other hand, RR didn't need 5 star talent to win at WVU.  To the extent that he does get 5 star talent at UM, great, but he shouldn't have to rely on it given his history.

interesting theory. thanks for posting. i think those numbers are small enough that we're still in statistical fluke territory, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Anyone else read this as "Biggest F. -up ever issued to Michigan in history" instead of the intended "Biggest F.-you"?

For the record, I like my version better.

They should expect to work up-front. 

I don't want failures on our team just because they are rated well if they don't want to put the work in. 

Those of us not in the football program don't have the choice not to put work in. We fail if we do that. On top of that, we have to make real money to stay in school at not-fun jobs, they get to play football. 

I have no sympathy.  To those not tough enough to play in this program, I don't want you on this team.  Raw talent that doesn't play with others is a liability anyways.

That all being said, it's a matter of building a team culture and player culture that encourages that level of hard work from a postitive perspective rather than a negative one.  In other words, you need to make sure that the driving force that pushes people to go that extra mile comes from the team's will to succeed and motivate each other rather than coaches or staff harping excessively upon mistakes and missteps.  You want people to have instilled in them the passion to succeed, not to feel hemmed in by strict rules. 

Now, I can't say one way or another the true nature of the football program.  I'm not close to it or involved in it, so how it really is out there isn't something I can comment on.

But let's look at the transfers and losses.

Justin Boren is a fuckup.  He wanted to play simple man blocking run-heavy o-line and didn't want to have to put real work in to meet conditioning requirements.  More than that, any fucking bitch who would even consider transferring to Ohio State from Michigan is someone I would never want on my team even if he was (according to the media) a magical combination of Lamarr Woodley, Denard Robinson, and Tom Brady. 

Mallet left because he had an odd combination of actually wanting to be closer to home and wanting a specific offense.  I think this was a poor choice on his part, as he could have been very Forcier-like with less speed and more arm.  If he stayed, you might had Manningham stay another year and run a pass-oriented spread midway between a pro and RichRod's run read/option attack. Rich Rodriguez is a smart offensive guy, I think he could have made it work.  Still, he made up his own mind and I'm not inclined to believe that any of RichRod's actions forced the issue there.

Warren read too much of his own press and thought he'd be in the first two rounds of the draft.  That was simple stupidity, nothing about RichRod caused that, except perhaps Mike Barwis beating him into amazing shape out of nowhere the previous year.

Cissoko also made independently retarded choices and would have failed out of any program anywhere (except USC, where he'd be given a hotel room, celebrity exposure, and blowjobs from Agents until he was back into shape)

I personally think O'Neill was a bust and would have flamed out anywhere.

And it sounds like Turner lacked work ethic.  If this guy can't appreciate a scholarship to one of the best universities in the country and work for what he had the way the rest of us have to, then honestly I don't see him going on to be any sort of college star anyways. ( I heard rumors of him simply losing interest in the sport of Football too but I'm not sure if that's accurate at all)

Anyhow, I think other than the attrition at the beginning, the ongoing player loss only seems noteworthy because of the departures at the start and mr. fatass trash-talking the program once Rodriguez came in.

One thing I think we can never overlook is the fact that Rich Rodriguez was a walk-on. He just can't see giving a job to an underachieving 4-5 star guy when a less heralded player is busting his ass to win a job. He was shaped by his own experience as a player.