Was David Brandon one of them?
frank beamer #1
About five weeks ago, I took two polls after the loss to Penn State. The results were not too surprising, but I felt that it would be interesting to see what the board thinks after all of the ANGAR. Well there has been a large amount of ANGAR after the game on Saturday, so I conducted another poll. Admittedly, the loss was probably too fresh in our minds, but I was impatient, and I wanted to see if all of you really wanted to keep this guy. There have been several hundred responses to each survey, and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to do this.
The answer is yes, MGoBoard still wants Rich Rodriguez to coach Michigan again in 2011
After the Penn State game (with the assumption of a 7-5 record), I asked if Michigan should retain Rich Rodriguez as head coach.
|Response:||% of responses|
|I'm not sure||11|
After the game this weekend, the responses were not quite as steadfast in their support of Rodriguez, but there is still a clear majority in favor of retaining Rodriguez. Apparently 7-5 looked better five weeks ago than it does now, and the way that the games were won or lost were probably not exactly what most of us had envisioned at that point, although nobody thought that Michigan would beat Wisconsin (88% thought that Michigan would lose) or Ohio State (85%).
|Response:||% of responses|
|I'm not sure||13|
GERG is not as lucky as Rodriguez however. The responses to asking if Michigan should retain Greg Robinson weren't shocking.
Five weeks ago:
|Response:||% of responses|
|I'm not sure||37|
|Response:||% of responses|
|I'm not sure||12|
I think we're pretty clear on this. Needless to say, MGoBoard wants Greg Robinson to resign, retire, or be fired. I think the consensus is that Rich Rodriguez will need to completely overhaul his defensive coaching staff, starting at the top, make a good hire this time, and give the defensive coordinator free reign in personnel, strategic, and recruiting decisions. Greg Robinson has failed here (and it was not entirely his fault), but we're fed up with the performance on defense and we think it's time for a change.
The other four questions that I asked were pretty consistent in their responses, but yet again, there was less of a clear cut majority. Keep in mind that most of the responses in the previous polls were largely given with the assumption that Michigan would not beat Illinois and finish 6-6.
Has Michigan shown enough improvement in Rich Rodriguez's tenure?
|I'm not sure||14|
Can Michigan eventually succeed under Rodriguez?
|I'm not sure||21||18|
Would Michigan be better off with Rodriguez as head coach in 2011 than without?
|I'm not sure||15|
Take a guess: Will Michigan retain Rich Rodriguez as head coach?
|I'm not sure||5||13|
Well, there you have it. I would agree with the majority who want Rodriguez to have another year (personally I think that a coach should have more than three years to build a program and that it's hard to discount the progress that has occurred from 2008 to now), but I understand some of the perspectives of those who wish to have a change in coaching occur because it has been frustrating to seee the team perform so poorly.
A couple of interesting responses from some seemingly irrelevant questions from the earlier survey:
Question #5: If a coaching change is made, should it be done before or after the bowl game?
- Before – 51%
- After – 37%
- I’m not sure – 12%
Question #8: Would Jim Harbaugh be the best candidate if Rodriguez is fired?
- Yes – 48%
- No – 19%
- I’m not sure – 33%
There isn't really correlation between these two and any other of the questions, so there isn't really much to be gained other than just an answer to my curiosity, I suppose. By the way I don't think that this is a place to start a "'Jim Harbaugh is awesome!' 'No he's not!" flamewar (which are kind of annoying anyways)*
There are countless other threads in which to debate the merits of Jim Harbaugh, and I wonder what the response would be now if I asked the same question, but it is irrelevant because as of now, Rich Rodriguez is our coach and devoting so much time debating the merits of a possible replacement coach if he is fired is potentially pointless.
Was David Brandon one of them?
I sincerely doubt it. It would be cool if he was.
Quick question, how many people voted in the poll?
There have been several hundred responses to each survey, and I really appreciate everyone taking the time to do this.
There were about 800 for the first, 1,200 for the second (by virtue of its bump to the front page) and 800 for this one.
Damn it. My vote would be "not sure" I can see pos and neg for keeping and firing RR. I will leave it up to DB to decide. Here is a case where my vote will not affect the outcome. I trust DB to do the right thing. He will do the best he can.
Is les a better choice? idk. Why arent we throwing double the money at him? We can afford it. Is Jimmy better than Les? idk. Is RR better than both? idk
One think I do know is that Yost, Crisler, OOsterbaan, Canham and Bo were each better than all three combined. Hell I will throw Woddy in this as well.
Intersting stuff especially cause of the somewhat conflicting nature of your poll. There are still a majority that say RR has not shown enough improvement in his tenure which goes against the idea of retaining him because of 'progress'.
but at too slow a pace. We all want to win now and beat MSU and OSU this year. That's why I believe the comparison shows 7-5 less acceptable after the OSU game.
The word, "enough" was pretty grey to me in answering it. I'm not satisfied with where the program is but I'm not convinced that's an indictment of RR. Even though I am not satisfied with the current state of the program, I recognize 2008 was going to be desert wasteland no matter who was the coach and we've made progress in the two seasons following it.
On the final question I clicked and submitted. It didn't take me to another page. I am not sure if it took my votes.
VOTER FRAUD!!! /just kidding
Again, good job.
and the host is not really entirely cooperative because I've been using their free trials under a bunch of different e-mail addresses (because I don't really have any interest in conducting corporate surveys, and I definitely don't want to shell out the $200 for it.) I think it's been counting them all though.
The DetNews survey I took was 70/30 the other way. Maybe because it included more casual fans and haters? My sense is that among casual fans, more want RR fired, and Sparty/Buckeye types are just as happy seeing RR fired because they get to say Michigan failed. I know that many far-from-causual fans also want RR fired, but this is just my impression.
I think it's a reflection of most of the hardcore fans on this site, and I think Brian's support of RR has trickled down and influenced a lot. People will have different opinions, but I do not know if the demographics of this site are consistent with the fanbase as a whole (in fact, I know that they aren't, and frankly, that's what makes this site any good anyways.)
I think it's safe to say that your assumption was correct that DetNews readers are more casual fans and aren't as informed of the program as are the people here.
Literally every Spartan I know is a huge fan of RR - just like we were of John Cooper. Before he arrived, they'd lost 30 of their last 38 games to us. Now they're 3-0 against him. They're not going to vote for him to be fired. OTOH, most of the Michigan fans I know (whether diehard or casual) want a coaching change.
This site is unusual in that 1) the proprietor is (or was, until recently) strongly pro-RR and 2) the voting system has punished newcomers who express dissenting opinions. A lot of people unhappy with RR have been negged into oblivion or banned, leaving the pro-RR faction in the clear majority. But even then, support for him on this site has eroded.
on the Michigan-MSU series today, and discovered that prior to Rodriguez's hiring, they hadn't beaten us since 2001. Carr finished his last seasons 6-0 against them!
SIX straight losses; they are really in a golden age of Sparty football when it comes to wins against Michigan. The Cooper comparison seems quite apt at the moment, at least with regard to rivalry games.
App State massacre was under Lloyd's leadership. Then a loss to Toledo? The wheels were coming off then. Why isnt Lloyd getting any heat? He abandoned the team at the right time. He gets most of the blame in my book.
I read your comments on here and I can tell you just want your program back. Me too. If Rich Rodriguez can deliver that, then he is my guy.
He very likely isn't up to it though.
There is every bit as much evidence that this won't get any better, then evidence it will. The position that we'll automatically improve and gain on teams that blew us out while we showed no improvement against them from the previous year, is no better than wishing.
Michigan doesn't entrust it's marquee possession to egghead stat lines, future extrapolations, and wishes. Not after 3 years of a bad rerun. That is why the odds are very strong we'll get Harbaugh in here. Hopefully he can piece together the rubble fast and restore our position as a feared program in this conference. With character but with cruelty is how he describes the way he wants Stanford to play. Sounds like heaven.
I have a lot of confidence that the folks on this board will support whatever Brandon does, despite the sometimes lack of an open mind for dissenting opinions you point out. A smart fan would rather be wrong and win, then right and mediocre.
A lot of people unhappy with RR have been negged into oblivion or banned,
That's a lie, isn't it? Has there ever been anyone who was banned for holding or simply expressing a contrarian opinion? You say "a lot." I say, not only is it not "a lot," I am betting it is no one. To be sure, people have been banned. But for being persistent idiots, for breaking board policies, and for otherwise being a general nuisance. That would include large numbers of trolls and dedicated opponents. Not fans or supporters. (Not that this site is or should be restricted to fans and supporters. Ask 'NotanMfan' or 'Irish.') Oh, and dumb people might behave badly and consequently get banned. There are always some idiots. I think there are lots of "idiots" in the anti-RR faction. We may be realizing a fair quantity of overlap on that.
The reality is that these honorable "dissenters" jmblue imagines were 95% MLive quality trolls. I'm amazed at the number of people lately who must sit here and upvote people who suggest that RR needs to GUARANTEE SOME WINS or BREATHE FIRE and HARBAUGH WOULD DO THOSE THINGS BECAUSE I THINK HE WOULD DO THOSE THINGS. But hey, it's a heady time to be a fed-up moron.
/fully aware there are thousands of fed-up non-morons
In my case and that of several others I know personally...
We found this place and became regular visitors because it didn't have the constant and mindless vitriol that was so common everywhere else.
When I hear someone complain about the "pro-RR" nature of the board my first thought is "why don't you fuckin go anywhere else if you don't like it? ". Seriously? There can't be one place that gives the guy a fair shake?
BTW- I think mgoblog is really only "pro-RR" relative to the mindless vitriol mentioned above. There's plenty of fair criticism.
As much as I like this site, I have to observe that the posters on this board have pretty much become a more exclusive community during Rich Rodriguez's tenure-- i.e., those that criticize or oppose the current coaching staff get hounded here to the point that many of them likely no longer feel welcome. To a degree, I understand this. As fans, our job, as it were, is to support our team, and it doesn't do a whole lot of good to trash your staff in a public forum. At the same time, I don't think this board is as representative of the Michigan fan base as a whole as perhaps it used to be.
Really all we need is a poll where n=1 and the lone voter is DB.
thanks for efforting it
"Apparently 7-5 looked better five weeks ago than it does now." 7-5 but lose to Ohio State by 30 is much different than 7-5 but lose to Ohio State by 2 scores.
Everyone knows that the last regular season game is the most important game of the year (just ask our neighbors to the south if you don't believe me). And, we are all anxious to notch a W against them (and our in-state rivals as well).
I think those who have not lived in the dreaded cesspool of Ohio have absolutely NO idea of how much things have changed in OSU since the sweatervest took over. It is not nearly his doing as much as the AD but you would think there was nothing on this earth so important as the UM game and the football team. There would NEVER be any critical articles like the Detnews does to us. The amount of money lavished on the football team there is embarassing compared to us or any other big 10 team. OSU defines itself by its football team, whereas for us the U as an academic institution comes before any sports team ( and a damn good thing too ! ). Whenever we do beat them, the world WILL end in Columbus
It'll be interesting to see if the numbers change a lot after the bowl game
I have heard that sentiment echoed a lot, and I'll probably do another poll.
I'm still interested in a poll about halfway between now and the bowl game. Assuming no drama, which is a pretty big assumption given the past couple of years, the relative calm may yield some interesting swings.
A post-bowl poll will likely result in a pretty predictable shift depending on the result and the opponent.
BTW, thanks for this.
d after the second season 5-7 and he wasn't fired after the NCAA issues why would he be fired now af 7-5, with a decent bowl on the horizon, a great offense, offensive player of the year in the B10 and basically a sophomore defense that really did improve over the course of the year, each week they got better, each week they never quit, and basically this team is on the upswing. At some point maybe it is only us talking about wether he should, would, could ougtha be etc...if they din't pull the plug in the past they cannot justify pulling it now, he gets one more year
He will succeed if given another year with an experienced defense. However, I wish they would go back to a 4-3 scheme. Would prevent us from getting run over!
Even if I'm slightly more in favor of replacing him with Harbaugh. I like RR, and have this feeling he'll be back next year. After all, I don't see Harbaugh abandoning Stanford before the bowl game, and waiting until January might be too long for DB even if he wants him. If that's the case, I obviously want him to have the most success he can possibly have, and for his schemes and theories of football to be validated (since that would translate to wild Michigan success in the future).
So if RR has this support, then even some of the Harbaugh people will get behind him if it turns out he returns.
because in my humble opinion, Penn State was our most disappointing loss of the year (excluding The Game, but that's because it's The Game; OSU was heavily favored); I would have expected more instant "Fire RR now" emotions at the time.
I wonder if you did a poll a week from now, or sometime less close to the sting of a loss, the results would swing much closer to the post-PSU numbers?
Either way, very nice work! Also, +1 for Hobbes avatar.
but feel like this would be the case.
It's interesting, because I think Penn State was Michigan's worst loss. Yeah, it was the game, it sucked, but we pretty much knew what would happen.
I'm interested to see his recruits as juniors and seniors.
All right, I have decided to change my position and am now in favor of firing RR. By doing this I can get rid of any hope of real improvement for next year and won't have to worry about any potential let down. I will have an excuse prepared for me....new coach....new system....players dont fit....etc. Do we really want to double dip into the eating shit trough or do we want to continue to improve? Me personally, I would like to have some hope for next season.
While your desire to avoid unmet expectations is understandable, those factors didn't stop any of us (or at least most of us) from having unrealistic expectations in 2008 with Sheridan and Threet manning the helm and an almost entirely new offensive line.
The only way I have hope for next season is if, for once in the last 4 years, we can avoid the carousel and transitions and focus on improving further down the road we're on.
Thanks for the quick look at the 'Boards opinions. A great idea.
Given the way this board was on Saturday and Sunday, I'm surprised -- it seemed like the pro-RR group was an embattled minority. I guess that's just the nature of the board after wins and losses.
Hard to imagine that there isn't more positive feeling for RR if he wins his bowl game. The problem is, our bowl matchup may be highly favorable or unfavorable depending on which bowl it is. It seems inevitable that ANGAR about RR will reach record levels if we lose to South Carolina in the Outback Bowl, whereas it will subside if we beat Kansas State in the Insight Bowl: even though both results might tell us exactly the same thing about the abilities of this team.
How the Take a Guess: Will Rich be retained? question would go after a week of Brandon silence.