How would the Big Ten divide with a twelfth team?
Maybe this should be listed as an alternate universe post a la the Paul Johnson Wolverines, since the likelihood of Big Ten expansion seems to be very slim and the discussion now somewhat nauseating. I've been wondering how the Big Ten would divide were it to add a twelfth team, making a division and a conference championship game necessary. If the new team was either of the top few choices discussed in recent months (Pitt and Syracuse), then it would seem to follow that the Big Ten would split East/West, like the SEC, with Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern, Illinois, and either Indiana or Purdue (technically Purdue is further west but only marginally) in the West division and Michigan, MSU, tOSU, PSU, Indiana, and the new team in the east division.
However, I'm wondering whether a more compelling split would be if the conference divided along North/South lines, a la the Big 12. In this scenario, Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern, MSU, Wisconsin, and Iowa would comprise the Big Ten North, and (possibly) the new team along with tOSU, Indiana, Purdue, Penn State, and Illinois would make up the south. This would probably require the Big Ten expansion to involve a team that was more definitively south (like remember when we thought Texas might be interested? or Notre Dame if they ever come to their senses...). Rutgers would in this instance become a more desirable scenario as well, and Syracuse less so.
In the Big Ten's current state this split seems to carry the more intriguing power structure: Michigan, if and when it returns to its expected strength, would be the flagship program of the Big Ten North. Battling with UM for Big Ten North titles would be any one of Iowa/Wisconsin/MSU/Northwestern/Minnesota (all of whom appear to be, if not competitive, then on the verge of being competitive post-2008). In the south, Penn State and Ohio State would be like the Texas/Oklahoma tandem in the Big 12 South, routinely sparring for supremacy (possibly with the new school), occasionally with Illinois as a legitimate challenger and Purdue and Indiana bringing up the rear.
It seems to me that it is in Michigan's interest to have the Big Ten divide North/South. What do all of you think?
Thanks to http://statsheet.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/map for providing a good visual of where the Big Ten teams are situated geographically.
However, I'm wondering whether a more compelling split would be if the conference divided along North/South lines, a la the Big 12. In this scenario, Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern, MSU, Wisconsin, and Iowa would comprise the Big Ten North, and (possibly) the new team along with tOSU, Indiana, Purdue, Penn State, and Illinois would make up the south. This would probably require the Big Ten expansion to involve a team that was more definitively south (like remember when we thought Texas might be interested? or Notre Dame if they ever come to their senses...). Rutgers would in this instance become a more desirable scenario as well, and Syracuse less so.
In the Big Ten's current state this split seems to carry the more intriguing power structure: Michigan, if and when it returns to its expected strength, would be the flagship program of the Big Ten North. Battling with UM for Big Ten North titles would be any one of Iowa/Wisconsin/MSU/Northwestern/Minnesota (all of whom appear to be, if not competitive, then on the verge of being competitive post-2008). In the south, Penn State and Ohio State would be like the Texas/Oklahoma tandem in the Big 12 South, routinely sparring for supremacy (possibly with the new school), occasionally with Illinois as a legitimate challenger and Purdue and Indiana bringing up the rear.
It seems to me that it is in Michigan's interest to have the Big Ten divide North/South. What do all of you think?
Thanks to http://statsheet.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/map for providing a good visual of where the Big Ten teams are situated geographically.
You can't take region into affect. I agree that you have to keep the major rivalry together. Michigan and Ohio State should be in the same division. You can have certain cross over games that always occur..if people care. The Penn State v MSU rivalry was created...it has no real meaning to anyone.
Great Lakes Division
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Northwestern
Illinois
Indiana
Midwest Division
Penn State
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Purdue
Iowa
Minnesota
Or something like that.
That's pretty good. The only rivalries that would be split up would be IU-Purdue (and Illinois-Wisconsin, if that counts) but they could get an exception. The 12th team (taking the place of your second Minnesota) would have to be pretty good to balance out the divisions, though.
It definitely would be a bad idea to split up UM and OSU. We couldn't play them the last week of the season and then possibly play them again one week later. We'd need to be in the same division.
yo that minnesota-minnesota game would be a good one. The teams would be almost perfectly matched.
I know this is a dissenting opinion but ...this is why the Big 12 and SEC laugh at the Big 10.
With all due respect take a step back and look at the times. Most of the post I have read are complaining that it is a money grab and money this and money that...uhhhh...yeah. Get with the times.
Those Conference games might be about money..but it is about exposure for that conference and those schools. You realize the extra recruiting that is done using that game???
While the Big Ten is in hibernation for the month of December...the Big 12 and SEC are tailgating and having recruits and have the spotlight to themselves.
The Big 12 South has to be hands down one of the toughest divisions in CFB. OU, OSU, UT, TT, A&M and now Baylor is making a name for itself with a dynamic QB. Any of you want to tell me or name for me a Big Ten 10 school that can compete with those schools over the past 5 season in terms of wins and Bowls won??? So what if Michigan plays Ohio State every year....Texas plays OU every year on a neutral site and are in the same division and those schools are in a BCS Bowl game almost every freakin year!! So you are saying that Michigan and Ohio State can't do the same because they are in the same division ....huh?? And no disrespect..but it is that backwards thinking that gets the Big Ten left in the dust.
You know what..they battle through the season and then play a conference championship game that adds to their conference and school coffers. Fans aren't complaining. They want to see meaningful football at that time of year and are willing to pay for it.
That there is the difference in the south and north when it comes to football. Don't get me wrong...there is a lot of tradition and football die hards in the Big Ten. In the south it is a freakin religion. And that is not rhetoric. I have lived in the north. And now live in the south...and these people down here live football. Through the food. The traditions. The weather. The hype. The rivalries. The hate. These people love it.
Like I said no knock on the Big Ten schools. But truth is truth. While you guys are sitting there talking about no to this and no to that and it is a money grab....guess who is grabbing the money??? Guess who is getting the headlines at that time of year??? Who is on the national radar of the coaches and pollsters??? Big 12 and SEC.
I am not even saying how they go about it is right...but it part of the evolution of big time college sports.
Now why the Big Ten coaches are squabbling over whether or not to play in December or have a conference championship game or whether or not to add a 12th team the Big 12 and SEC are blazing the trail and the new standard is being set forth. Big 10 is falling behind....
...you do realize that no conference has had more BCS bowl appearances than the Big Ten, don't you?
The current 11-team set up has been very, very, VERY good in terms of $$$ to the Big Ten.
Its not about the cash! It's about keeping up with the rest of the country! the reason they let carr go and hired rich rod was to keep up with the rest of the country. A 12th team would:
1) keep the Big Ten teams going to bowls fresher. Big Ten teams keep doing very poorly in bowls because the teams they play have 1 or 2 more more to stay fresh.
2) more games for the fans to enjoy. So what if it's cold? Deal with it! i would rather go to another game in the cold than be forced to stay home and watch big 12 and sec teams for 2 more weeks.
3) obviously it would bring another hunk of cash to the athletic department, buts thats not most important thing.
And for you people saying "I don't want to play ohio state twice or not the last week" I highly doubt the athletic directors would let that happen. the last week is called rivaly week for a reason.
and like mentioned before, there should only be a conferernce championship if the two teams didn't play eachother head to head and they have identical records.
Whether it is likely this ever happens or not, the only team that has any appeal to me as a possible Big Ten addition is Notre Dame.
The Big 12 and the SEC both have weaker and stronger divisions and I agree that you would have to put both Michigan and OSU in the same division much the same way the UT and OU are in the same division.
I think you keep the name regardless. The fact that it did not change when they added the 11th team has created the presedent. They will just jig the logo to include a 12 somehow. Here is my split:
Big Ten East:
Michigan
OSU
PSU
MSU
IU
Purdue
Big Ten West:
Iowa
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Illinois
Minnesota
This seems to me to be the best split. The East is the better division. But each division has three perenially strong teams and three weaker/not bad teams. It keeps most of the rivalries together.
This is way too lopsided, and it just about gurantees Notre Dame as the champ of their division every year.
I say you have some sort of names for the divisions, like say the Norris and Cambell thing Hockey used to do.
You can't put UM, OSU, PSU and MSU in the same division. No way do those four teams go a round robin every year and not beat the living snot out of each other. Put PSU in with Notre Dame and give the UM-OSU division Minnesorta or even Northworstern.
These things don't always have to be "East-West" or "North-South" because of a lack of imagination and creativity. You could call the UM-OSu division "Bo's Woody" or something. And the oher division? How about "Fuck Notre Dame"???
Sounds good to me.
uummmm...other than the years when they don't face each other, isn't that what happens now? Isn't that what happens in the SEC? The tougher you make the schedule, the more credible the champion. And ND the "guarenteed" winner...puuulleeez...I think ND might find itself 3rd or even 4th in that division, once Wisconsin gets a decent coach again, perhaps 5th if Minnesota continues to improve...
i think part of the problem also is the fact that the big 10(when mi. is being mi.) is that it is called the big 2. if you have mi. and osu in the same division then no matter who is in the other div will always be considered 2nd best even if they win the big 10,anything can hapen on any given sat. right? i agree that it would be crazy to have mi. play osu 2 weeks straight but if you want to make money what else could be better. i think a much better solution is for the big 10 to adopt a bye week so the "the game" happens 1-2 weeks later in the yr. hoping for the best possible weather her in the midwest. thereby putting us more on a level playing field with the warm weather teams playing 2 wks longer than us.
Nobody is going to show up or tune in to a game they saw SEVEN DAYS before. In a rare agreement with the guy from the Dead Schembechlers, I think the Michigan-Ohio State game is like Christmas Morning. Christmas being repeated on New Year's would be a bit much, don't you think?
One of two or three "rivalry" games would probably have to end with any sort of divisional breakdown. From Michigan's standpoint, you have to keep OSU--but if Notre Dame comes in, is it totally out of the question that the Minny or MSU game would have to go on rotation? One or both of those teams would be moved to an opposite division--of course I say you can't not play MSU every year. But the Jug just may have to go on ice every two years to make a division thing work.
And my feeling on that is "Who cares"--For the greater good.
Populate divisions by east-west so natural and traditional rivals play each other every year (ND thrown in to laugh at Weis):
Kirk Herbstreit Division:
AN Ohio State University
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Iowa
Notre Dame
Jeff George Division:
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Minnesota
Wisconsin
The Herbstreit Division has by far the more dominant schools historically. Swapping Minnesota/Wisconsin with Iowa/ND gives some more balance, adds the Brown Jug game every year, and keeps the ND/Purdue rivalry.
KHD: OSU, Michigan, MSU, PSU, Minnesota, Wisconsin
JGD: Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Iowa, ND
Then, of the three non-division games, protect these matchups if possible:
OSU/Illinois
ND/Michigan
ND/MSU
Fill in the other non-division games from there.
This protects every rivalry, even the lame ones. If anybody still complains about the setup, rearrange the divisions by all-time winning percentage going into each season.
North:
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern
Wisconsin
South:
Indiana
Iowa
Notre Dame (right?)
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
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