class act. Thanks for the note.
Fred Roh's Post (Some good side notes)
(Side note: He said he loves UFR's, especially when Craig grades out well. He also said he has a 9th grade son that he thinks will be as good, or better than Craig.
As a freshman, he's already 6'2 165 and plays WR, and....SAFETY!!! He also has an 11th grade son that is a very good basketball player, and a 7th grade daughter that is a very good volleyball player. THE ROH FAMILY IS ABOUT TO SAVE THE MICHIGAN PROGRAM ONE CHILD AT A TIME!!!)
As the parent of a current UM player and 9 months out of the recruiting process, it is important for all forum posters to understand that recruits and their parents subscribe to and read your posts, both postive and negative. This is one of the easiest ways for a recruit to see what is going on behind the scenes in a football program.
So, before you write your next critical comment on Rich Rod and on a player, you might want to think about who will be reading it. Why in the world would a parent want to send their kid to a school where the coach and players are getting ripped every day by hundeds of online fans. Why would a parent want to send a kid to a program where half the fans want the coach fired; where there is continual discussion about universty in-fighting. Those of you who are continually writing these scathing comments are hurting recruiting and the UM football program!
One main reason I sent my son to Michigan was because of the great fan base and playing in front of 100k people. I am not naive enough to think that fans are not going to be upset after some heartbreaking losses and believe they have a right to criticize coaches and players. However, please understand that these guys came to UM because they believed in the program. They believed in Rich Rod and bought into the idea of building for the future. They want desperately to make things better. They want to go to bowl games and they want to win Bog 10 and National Championships. Do you really think that Rich Rod and Greg Robinson have no idea what they are doing? Do you really think the program will be better off firing Rich Rod? Who, either player or coach, would want to come to UM or stay at UM if Rich Rod got fired and the process starts all over again?
Please consider the next time you want to vent on this website that these players and coaches are working harder than you can imagine to bring Michigan football back. It is great for intelligent posters to give insights that talk about strategy, what is working and what is not. However, emotional reactions calling for the heads of coaches and players will do nothing but destroy this program.
Thanks for sharing this with us. I've always wondered if players and/or their parents read the site.
This was by far the most interesting and informative post of the last month. I am a better fan as a result of this post and this will actually influence my behavior in the future. Thank you Mr. Roh for allowing your son to eat the souls of opposing players.
No wonder everyone says the kid's so smart - his father can actually write! Great points and well-said, Mr. Roh.
Wow nice. With all their athletic children, maybe they'll take us to the Roh's Bowl.
Boooooooooooooooo. Posbanged for awesome horrible pun.
...good job on that one
First, thanks to Mr. Roh for his efforts here. Thanks especially to his son for all his hardwork to help get Michigan back to where it belongs.
I agree that the toxic atmosphere being created by the RichRod haters can only cause problems for the program. The losses are bad enough on their own; the internet storm being whipped up by the haters is ridiculous.
Still, I would hope that recruits and others understand that a lot of the comments are by trolls just trying to stir things up. No doubt a lot are also by unhappy M "fans" but you'll get that crowd at every program.
I'm getting to the point where I think it's almost time to declare a civil war underway at MGoBlog. Let us all declare which side we're on, then put a note or icon next to our avatars to make it clear. When RichRod has turned this program around and we're a consistent top 10 team again, I'll want all the haters to have to acknowledge they were on the wrong side.
NOW is the time for true Michigan fans to MAN-UP! When the going gets tough .... Sure, if coaching mistakes are made, let's discuss them, no problem. But support the damn program now when the program needs a strong fanbase.
I also wouldn't have a problem with even stricter posting rules here ... make people wait a few weeks after signing up before they can comment on anything!
His third paragraph sums it up perfectly.
I don't think any high school senior, nor any head coach or assistant, has dreams of coming on to the winningest college football squad playing in front of the largest crowd watching a football game in America, thinking "man, I can't wait to screw this whole thing up and go 3-9."
I do however, think that they come in saying "this is going to be a tough transition with a few tough years."
However, I'm willing to bear a few tough seasons to have guys (players and coaches) who really want to be here!
I agree to an extent but you also need to realize that the only reason people complain and want to fire people is because they care. Maybe their anger is misdirected or not phrased perfectly but the reason they are PO'd is because they want Michigan to win year in and year out. I don't think anyone can honestly fault them for that. More moderate view points prevail on this site, as they should, but I'm, personally, fine with the anger because that means we still have a very passionate fan base. I'd take the anger over complacency any day.
With all that said I completely understand what he's saying and that it might alter the views of the recruits but, honestly, that's life at virtually every school that didn't win the National Championship last year. There is complaining about Joe Pa, there's complaining about Tressel, there's complaining about Carroll, the only coaches that aren't being b!tched about right now are, not surprisingly, Meyer, Saban, Brown, Patterson and Kelly (BSU fans are pissed they didn't play more than 1 BCS school).
In short, yeah, maybe the anger should be better phrased and less viral but, as Thomas Edison said, "We shall have no better conditions in the future if we are satisfied with all those which we have at present."
EDIT: I'm not talking about the trolls - not the ones that sign up for no other reason than to start a flame war - they suck.
I like the part about leaving emotionally driven comments out.
" It is great for intelligent posters to give insights that talk about strategy, what is working and what is not. However, emotional reactions calling for the heads of coaches and players will do nothing but destroy this program."
From what I can tell, our fanbase is in four strata:
1) 100% Rodriguez no matter what happens
2) Optimistic, enjoys the bright spots, but looking for result and willing to provide CONSTRUCTIVE criticism
3) FIRE RICH ROD HOLY CRAP DO IT NOW AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
4)Drunk in the stands wearing a black northface jacket, texting their friend in a different section asking them what the score is.
I feel we need more of the number 2.
I agree with your post whole heartedly. I think you need a 2.5 though. 3 is kinda the equivalent of 1 (unless you want to make a .5, where someone is saying RICH IS GOING TO WIN 10 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, DUH!). 2.5 would be people who really think it's not going to work out for Rich, but are at least smart enough to know no good comes out of firing him right now, and we have to ride it out...possibly to our destruction. (A small group, I know).
I, like you I assume, are in group #2. And agree we need more of them (than either 1's or 3's). But for the curve to be a bit more fair...
to continue pROHcreating...
This made me LOL, ROFL, and LMAO. Well done!
It made you ROH on the floor laughing?
Bravo and ouch.
+1. Then -1. Then finally +1.
How do I give Fred some points? THIS IS IMPORTANT.
I would love to see a Roh family picture. Can you imagine an entire family with AWESOME eyebrows like Craig has? Those things are absolutely hypnotic and perfect for an intimidating football player.
Note: While this post is somewhat irreverant and "joke-y". There is a great deal of sincerity in the post as well. Those eyebrows ARE hypnotic, man. I can't take my eyes off of them whenever Craig gets interviewed. So, please don't be mad at me, if you read this Mr. Roh. :-)
Agreed, I was crafting an apology for eyebrow comment made earlier this fall, but then I realized my remark was mainly awed admiration.
I'm still pouting that people like "Death Roh" more than "Ruh Roh" but if the Roh family is breeding more football players under their roof, I'll have chances in the future.
You're not the only one who feels that way. I mean, "Death Roh" is probably more football appropriate, but it doesn't send me into giggles like "Ruh-Roh" does.
but I think the eyebrows in question belong to Anthony LaLota...
Actually, I think compared to other sites, Mgoblog posters have been pretty levelheaded.
I agree. This Roh-post needs to be be diffused to the other UM Football blogs floating around the net.
Just a thought for y'all that float around all of the blogs.
... The Scout and Rivals and ESPN forums, for any major FBS team, are cesspools.
Even the one-off forums for other major teams are almost all worse than this one. NDNation, for example, is insane by comparison. And ND is having a better season so far, despite the head-to-head result.
Not that there isn't room for improvement. Rather, my point is that recruits are going to be a lot more turned off by just about any other forum for just about any other major team.
Most fanbases of elite teams freak out when things don't go well, that's why when we lose you should wait 24 (well, maybe 48 after seeing the Illinois aftermath) hours before posting anything.
That said, discussion like "player X should move to Y position because the defense is more effective that way and he'd be better at Y because he hasn't been a very good tackler this season" should be fine, really... facts are facts.
I, for one, welcome our new Rohverlords.
How many good safeties can the Roh's churn out?
Can we refer to Mr. Roh as Death Sr.?
If he sends all his kids here I think that would make him the Harbinger of Death(Roh)! (shout out to the BSG fans on that one ;) haha)
They were reading this note on WTKA this morning. It looks like Mr. Roh is trying to reach out to the local community to make sure they are representing M football in a positive light to recruits. He definitely has a good perspective on the process.
I'll remember that the next time I think about posting negatively.
100% correct. There's no doubt that many of those posting long diatribes here and elsewhere about why RR deserves to get fired at the end of this season if not sooner secretly harbor a conviction that if only the right people (MSC, BM, Bo Schembechler's ghost, etc etc) read THEIR diatribe, they would see the light, follow their recommendations, and fire RR on the spot. MSC would then announce in the press conference "I want to acknowledge that it was the King of Belch who finally got me to recognize what an awful choice Rich Rodriguez was. Why it took me so long, I don't know, but it was the magic prose and deadly yet caressing logic of Belch that finally enlightened me. Accordingly, I am immediately placing KOB at the head of the new search committee. Belch will report only to me, and, organizationally, is above Bill Martin and his eventual replacement. Belch and I are also going to take a two-week cruise together, because I need his advice on other pressing matters concerning the University, and because I'm so lonely in this job."
If the King of Belch then came on stage to accept the job AND he looked exactly like his sig-pic/avatar, I think it just might be worth it.
Since he emailed TomVH to post it, I started thinking if we needed to extend Mr. Roh an invitation to join MGoBlog. That way he could post here directly, and maybe we could ask some questions on how he sees certain things etc. But then I realized that is probably not a good idea. Not only because being somewhat of an insider would make it complicated to express his opinions, but I also know I'd feel embarrased everytime The King Of Belch would try to start an argument with him.
...that'd be 4 in a roh.
Clever, I like it!
At Mr. Roh's post: it's interesting to hear about recruiting from the side of the recruited. And he brings up some very good points. I don't think I've been too harsh on here so far, but I'll definitely watch myself when I make posts from now on to be sure.
Also, hopefully the rest of his family will choose Michigan too. If you're reading this, kids, come to Michigan! :)
His point is a valid one, obviously, and I think most of us knew that even before this post. The flip side, of course, is that we fans want a place where we can have our internet version of "free speech."
It seems like we need a pay-wall or something that recruits can't access, combined with an "official fan support site."
I don't think I spew a lot of negativity, but even a little criticism could be harmful to recruiting.
And I agree about Craig's dad being cool. It's great to be able to interact (even in a limited way) with someone who has insight to the program, and put his money where his mouth is by sending his kid to play there.
the take away from his post isn't a message about censoring speech (what is it that people don't get about free speech? the government can't censor your speech. if brian wants to, he can) it is that if you're going to be critical, be reasonable, respectful and agenda driven. if your goal is to promote the long term success, keep that in mind when you post. also refrain from calling 18 year old kids who commit to another team something profane, particularly because these kids are constantly changing their minds. if you want to voice your displeasure there are means to communicate that effectively without forcing someone else's parent to tell you to be more reasonable.
more like filtering. using common sense.
it's a reminder about who reads your "free speech". you can say whatever you want, just realize that your subject, their family members, friends, etc may read what you wrote.
i mean, sometimes players even need to be reminded to not say things like "everybody murders..."
I understand it perfectly, which is why I put it in quotation marks. My point, in case you misunderstood it, is that as fans, we want to freely post our opinions without worrying about the effect on the program. I hope my post didn't suggest that I think we have a constitutional right to post anything we want on MGoBlog - did it?
It's one thing to be a troll, but its quite another to voice legitimate concerns. And, I think we agree, there are a number of things that Michigan fans could reasonably be concerned about right now.
So, one of the downfalls of the internet boards is that if I post something one here that I find troubling, then I must also consider the effect that my post has on potential recruits. Another poster (raleighwood, above) said it best - posting comes with responsibility, and it sucks that our internet "speech" is more public than something I rant about at the bar on Friday nights.
You nailed the crux of it. This is a public forum, so it's reasonable to think we should be mindful of what we say, even if we ourselves are veiled in anonymity. Rage all you need to, but try to do it somewhere a) it's not recorded b) the entire world can see it (meatspace is good for that :) )
The Free Speech issue was the first thing that I thought of when I read the post. It's a really slippery slope when you suggest that people don't speak their mind. Ultimately, I guess that this was just a reminder that Free Speech comes along with some responsibilty.
I think everyone knows that RR will be back next year (as he should be). Nothing written on MGoBlog is going to change that.
I actually enjoy reading posts from both sides of the coin. It's the beligerent (or profanity filled) posts that are the toughest to take seriously.
I too had a concern with Fred Roh's post. It can be read to mean that saying critical things about a player and/or coach makes one a bad fan who is harming the program. However, I've decided that isn't a fair reading of where he was coming from. I think the bottom line, and what Mr. Roh was getting at, is just don't be a jackass. Criticism is a part of life in big time sports with good fans who care. Being an asshole should not be.
I think that alot of the on-line negativity is created as commenters over-react to each other. Rather than discussions among friends, we have Jim Rome inspired arguments where people try to "bring it strong." This leads to ALL CAPS and name-calling and just gets real tired.
I will certainly try to give Mr. Roh's post consideration. He is coming from a good place. I think Shakespeare said it best when he said that: "A ROHse, by any other first name, is still a Michigan Man."
I think venting frustration in of itself is OK. It's just how you do it. There's no doubt that players and coaches aren't any happier with a bad season than the fans are, of course. I think the problem is when people are unreasonable and start flinging bile.
Your son has made us proud this year despite the adversity... kid's been fun to watch.
not bad advice, Mr. Roh. Thank you.
Like all of us, this family enjoys a rousing chorus of The Victors, but the men and boys in particular take great delight in singing the line "Hail to the conqu'ring he-Rohs."
If I could give you 200 of my MGoPoints, I certainly would.
...but what some men consider loss, i consider roh-gain.