I'm intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your news-letter.
Nice post tho I agree. 7-5 next year.
There are some really good diaries that people post on here and its nice to read peoples opinions from time to time but sometimes you just gotta say STOP IT!!!
As a 32 year old fan of Michigan athletics and an absolute nut over our fooseball program I have to say I was just as devastated as most of you were when we lost game after game in 08. But seriously folks some of you got to stop making these ridiculous assumptions. The most absurd is about Tate Forcier. Look I hope this kid ends up great. But he hasn't played a down yet & so many of you are talking like were going to win 9 games in the Big easy next year.
Great. If that happens what a grand suprise that would be, but the likely outcome is that Michigan fans need to be prepared for another season of heartbreaks. Not like 2008, but definitely nothing spectacular. I think a 7-5 0r 6 win season is what were looking at as a realistic ceiling and anything more is a gift.
I guess i'm just getting frustrated with all the blah blah blah. Its sounding absurd. Plus that kid doesn't need anymore pressure on him than he already has nor does any freshman coming in. Its like Terrell Pryor. The kid came in with so much hype people forgot he doesn't have an arm, AND he may never get one. He came to a good team that was ready to win and he handled it like a freshman with a wayyyy above average set of athletic skills. But he was still a freshman and they went 10-3. And that 10 wasn't that impressive. So Tates coming in to hopefully help a team that only won 3 games and so many of you are looking at him like the Messiah. This past season has too many of you trippin......
I'm intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your news-letter.
Nice post tho I agree. 7-5 next year.
here's the audio:
hey Drew and Mike....sweeeet.
The link doesn't work for whatever reason.
thanks for your bitching
The internet is all about overreaction, and the multiplication of overreaction. It's only going to get worse.
Please tell me which 5/6 teams we are going to lose to.
There are three games that I can see us probably losing, but not definitely. 7 wins is the min next year, not doable. 9 wins is doable. Tate/Threet/my a$$ at qb get's us 7. Have you forgotten how much talent we still have here? It's called learning a new system, and the d is going to be better w/ a 95% probability.
WMU. They return a lot of offensive experience.
Umm, go read posts from the beginning of last year. it honestly said the exact same thing as you just did, minus Notre Dame.
I, too, am tired of optimism and would like a little more negativity. Stop thinking good things will happen!
That's why there is a whole church dedicated to Michigan Safety Hating God.
RichRod's second year record throughout his career to get over this post.
There is a reason why Tate Forcier had so many offers and was rated one of the most accurate arm's in this year's class. He also ran a similar offense and has enrolled early to learn the playbook and be ready faster. Yeah sounds like he shouldn't be good with him putting all that time in to get better.......
And I did see him play. His wheels are ridiculous, but no he doesn't have an arm. His arms not weak by any means but hes a below average passer & I see NO indications of a sleeping rocket. And I will argue this til the day I die, TP should have picked Michigan. We would have won a few more games and went to a bowl first off. Second i'd like to know some great pro style QBs that came from OSU????????????? Third he would have been looked at as the messiah and attracted 10 times more attention here as OSU.
It's hard to tell, but I think Schlichter might have been the real deal. Of course his gambling addiction got him kicked out of the NFL long before it could be determined whether or not he was a legitimate NFL starter.
Other than that, they've produced mostly journeymen. Mike Tomczak was probably the best of the bunch, leading Pittsburgh to a playoff win in the 1996 season at the tail end of his career. Tom Tupa had a long career, mostly as a punter (he did play quarterback for a few years at the start of his career).
I agree that Pryor should have gone to UM. He is almost a perfect SO QB, and he is stuck in Tressel's pro-set offense. Pryor is more accurate than Threet, but he is not NFL-accurate, and I doubt that he ever will be. I do think, though, that Pryor could have won at least six games with UM last year and maybe seven or eight.
The SO does not require a QB to be as accurate as the pro-set does. Pryor does not do a very good job when he has to stand in the pocket and shoe-horn a pass to a barely-open reciever. In the SO, he wouldn't be asked to do that nearly as often as he would be in a pro-set, because the recievers tend to be more open and have more space around them.
He would also be allowed to run more often in the SO.
Hopefully, the Cardinals offense in the Super Bowl is an indication that, though the SO will never be an NFL offense, it is influencing teams to spread the field with three wideouts and put the QB in the gun a lot more. If this is true, it will be more and more difficult for teams to "negative recruit" UM and RR by saying that the SO doesn't properly prepare a QB for the NFL.
It seems impossible now, but there is still time for Pryor to have a losing record against UM. Hopefully, UM at least manages .500 against him. That would be a great start in turning the rivalry back around.
I'm pretty much with you, EZ. Tate will most likely end up alright, but I hope people aren't expecting too much from a true frosh making a pretty large leap to D1 Big Ten football. He will have growing pains.
Passing Accuracy Baseline: Drew Brees in the NFL this year
Running Ability Baseline: Michael Vick
that's, like, ballpark isn't it?
in America according to Rivals. That alone says that while we should be hopeful and optimistic about his skills, those that see him as the answer are not looking too hard. While of course I agree that even a decent dual threat QB would be an improvement over what we had, any true freshman QB will struggle mightily in year one. Pryor and Henne were 5 stars and struggled, although Henne had a college man-god to chuck it up to and did relatively well passing.
I agree. Why get so worked up over Forcier when Threet will be the starter next year? (I am not being sarcastic.)
We'll be alot better next yr becasue we will open up our playbook ALOT more. So thats why we believe 8-9 wins. All we did last yr was having like 3 diff plays and a screen pass. Everytime Threet runs and gets 5 yds, thats 10 yds forcier could of had. Just having a true dual threat qb helps alot. If hes not passing great, then we'll run alot more. In 08', if we didnt pass good, we got smoked.
Theres a reason he had 40-50+ offers...
While I agree that the playcalling will be more diverse this season, that will be due far more to comfort in the system as opposed to an inability of the coaches last year to diversify the offense. From everything I heard and read, this team could barely run half the plays in the playbook in practice with any consistency, and thus the 15-20 plays the tended to run all last year were the only ones they had. Sure, talent better suited for this system will help, but when the viable playbook is about 1.5 pages, I don't care who's lining up behind center.
That's why I think Brian nailed it on the head when he was grading the WRs last season - these guys not only underperformed, but they only had a select number of plays they showed any acumen running. The wheel routes and screens seemed to be about it, and once defenses picked up on them, that was it. Now, if MINOR RAGE continues its resurgence and the blocking improves, then the play-action will be viable again and that will make life easier for either QB.
I fully expect Threet to start at the beginning of the season, I expect him to be far better this year as opposed to last. Forcier will probably see the field as the season progresses, but it will take time and, barring injury or miraculous maturation on his part, will hopefully only be toward the end of decided games. I agree that some people have overreacted a bit about Tate, but I think the general sentiment is that Tate Forcier lining up behind center would be a bad sign for the season.
Forcier should be on the heisman watch list for next year. Also we will go undefeated and play in the BCS title game. That is not asking too much. Anything less is a disappointment and we should fire all the coaches and start over.
Off the cuff, I believe Threet and Minor will be much improved next season and should help bring some stability to our O. There's still a question of their durability and our offensive line. I would expect Forcier to get some reps as the season progresses but nothing like Lord Helmet (TP) did at tUotSoO
But as exmtroj said, Defense will determine our ultimate fate. With a new D coordinator, I'm worried that continuity may be a problem again.
All that said, this is a UofM-slappy blog. We're entitled, no....REQUIRED to be overly optimistic and drunk with thoughts of freshmen dancing down the field for a score.
He ran a shotgun spread offense at Adrian High School and was the 14th ranked QB in the land (by Scout) and a 4 star recruit.
Forcier receives almost identical ratings coming in (15th ranked, 4 star QB by Scout)
Some key differences:
Forcier is shorter than Threet.
Forcier is faster than Threet.
Forcier ran a speed no huddle, spread option offense at Scripps Ranch H.S> for 3 seasons (So-Sr.) and was the best QB in the entire San Diego, CA area.
I'm not at all surprised that UM fans are excited about Forcier. The belief is that Forcier has the exact skills that Threet does not, and hence Michigan fans might be able to observe for the first time more of what RR/Calvin Magee have in mind in terms of the utilized playbook.
I don't think Threet starts in 2009 unless he demonstrates less hesitating, faster and better reads and decision-making, and improves the hell out of his throwing motion and accuracy.
I believe Forcier, Threet, Sheridan (and hopefully Denard Robinson) will enter each week on equal footing and have to fight for their right to start. This is the only way RR ensures that all QBs are set and ready to go to run an offense where the QB is required to move around, and is therefore more at risk to injury.
markus - you should fix your sig line so that it is a hyperlink to your blog. if we had a private messaging system i'd use that, but we don't.
I fixed it! I fixed it!
"and was the best QB in the entire San Diego, CA area"
Ummmm.....Matt Barkley disagrees. Granted, I believe Tate did out throw him in some SoCal competition.
Barkley played in the Los Angeles/Anaheim area, so Tate probably was the best QB in San Diego.
Hopefully Forcier can run RR's option a whole LOT better than Threet, because it's a whole lot harder to defend the spread when the spread can option run as opposed to handing it off to the RB straight up the middle from the gun as often as we did last year...
sometimes it looked like we got 5-6 yard runs out of that play or a related run play when really we got 2-3 because our O-line got pushed back so far..
EZ,as for last year...lets go over each game and come up with a logical reason to have no hope for 2009.
game 1)Utah: first game yes, michigan did get most of the breaks but the second half was more indicative of the talent comps.Final 25-23 0-1--2009 With Forcier or more experienced Threet 0-1
game 2)Miami: still learning complex system . lackluster performance mostly brought on by bad recruiting and overly optimistic fans.Final 16-6 1-1--2009 Forcier exp. Threet 0-2
game 3)Notre Dame:flat as a nun's chest 4 fumbles and 2 int. season over.Final-35-17 1-2--2009 Forcier exp Threet and more bad luck 0-3
game 4)Wisconsin: do miracles ever cease? this game saw Mich. turn the ball over repeatedly in first half and this led to one of the luckiest comebacks .
Final 27-25 2-2-- 2009Forcier exp Threet 0-4
game 5)Illinois: Mich. spurred on by lucky comeback against Wis. comes out Juice see's blood, doesn't throw a pick and....Final 45-20 2-3--2009 Forcier exp Threet 0-5
game 6) Toledo: Threet makes another freshman mistake, Toledo comes out with an offense designed by their old coach Gary Pinkel, now at Missouri, and throws over 100 times...well, at least 50.Final- 13-10 2-4--2009 Forcier exp Threet 0-6
game 7)Penn St: #3 team in happy valley.Michigan once again loses. Final 46-17 2-5--2009 Forcier exp Threet closer but still lost 0-7
game 8)Michigan St.:same old story. young and now bewildered team they've become. Final 35-21 2-6--2009 Forcier exp Threet 0-8
game 9)Purdue:Michigan's offense scored 42 problem was Michigan gave up 48. Final-48-42 2-7--2009 Forcier exp Threet 0-9
game 10)Minnesota: this game showed how bad we are and Michigan won that juggy thing.Final 29-6 3-7--2009 Forcier exp Threet 0-10
game 11)Northwestern: Michigan come out in the snow and rain runs the ball for almost 200 yards but the 88 yards in passing and the defenses year long inability to stop 3rd and 30's did the Maize and Blue in...the pain...the pain....Final 21-14 3-8--2009 Forcier exp Threet 0-11
Game 12)Ohio St.:
ohio st 6 plays for 318 yards
michigan intercepts pryor on first drive returns to 8 and sheridan puts a dagger in the maize and blue heart. game over Final 42-7 3-9--2009 Forcier exp Threat and a witch doctor...0-12
Next year 0 wins...yea seriously...Go Blue!!
feel better ez?
Threet had no big name schools look at him tho, compared to tates million offers.
that's not entirely true. I think GT counts as a big name.
Offers from GT, Illinois, Wisco and Stanford. NC State as well, which I wouldn't really call 'big time' but their still a BCS team. Indiana is a BCS team as well and CMU has been a slightly above average mid major team the past few years.
Forcier will not be shocked by the transition to D-1 Big Ten football.
The Big Ten is a weak and dying conference remember? Just like HS ball, he'll be right at home.
WHO in the right mine says Michigan is going to win 8 or 9 games??? Lets be realistic here, I say....hmmm....12,13 tops
Threet/Forcier/Robinson ("Sheridan, shine the helmets!"), it is all the same to me. At least in the short term. I think Forcier may come into more playing time as the year progresses, naturally this happens for developing QBs. The biggest thing here is that the O-line will be a ton more mature and able to run the system. Seriously, our QBs looked bad behind an O-line that at times (you have to admit) looked like a school of fish out of water. The O-lines improvement = total offensive improvement, even with a minor expansion to the playbook. Total O improvement = more time of possession. Time of possession = less time the D is on the field. This translates to less points against us. I would love to see Forcier get in there and show some crazy skills, but even Threet will perform better behind this year's O-line. "Nicky, if there is one spot on those helmets so help me......"
BTW - I am cool with "Bowl Eligible" in 09.
I drank the kool-aid
this kid's the messiah
I hope Tate, Vincent and Terrence have a good season next year.
I have the pleasure of listening to the music playing in their room right now (I live down the hall).
I think we win 6 and end up in the first annual japanese sponsored "DATSUN BOWL" playing against South East South Dakota Tech. My projection is THREET throws two picks, but redeems himself on a game saving tackle(yes on offense) to win the game. Sheridan XP. Forcier one TD run. Just my opinion.
I think Forcier's upside is to become a reasonable facsimile of Chase Daniel. Unfortunately, his downside is to become like everyone else in his family: great in high school but not quite ready for prime time in college.
I hope he can break the mold, but they really, really need a backup plan.
I am hoping they get Robinson and work Gallon in as a wildcat.
Threet would look really good on the all-airport team and holding a clipboard.
But he wants to become like Colt McCoy
I think UM wins 6, maybe 7 games in 2009.
Forcier ISN'T a God and even if he starts, your expectations of him as a true freshman are ridiculously out of touch.
OSU fans did the same with Pryor and he was good, but not good enough, to hear some of them tell it.
And as far as him having no arm or the ability to pass, he's certainly going to run, but Tressel isn't sticking to a pro-style set, but rather intends to use much more of the Pistol and Single-Wing/Wildcat formations this year.
I think you will all be shocked when you see how much he improves as a passer as well this year.
Just my 2 cents....
NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND!